Do you believe in UFOs & flying saucers ?

Do I think that objects are sometimes spotted in the sky which are unidentified? Yep. Do I think it's extraterrestrials? Wouldn't jump to that conclusion right away. To me, that concept doesn't add up, but maybe someone else could point out the flaws in my mental arithmetic...

So, there's probably life elsewhere in the universe, but we don't know if having life on a planet is a guarantee that it evolves into a more intelligent form. Then, we don't know if every planet has the resources to attain a spacefaring civilization. We don't know if every planet can avoid the kind of natural disasters or artificial disaster which would wipe a civilization out or send it back to the stone age. We don't even know if every lifeform evolves into something which is even aware that there is an outer space above it, having developed wildly different sensory organs adapted to a completely different planetary environment. So there could be a lot of filters which prevent much of the life that develops ever even getting into space.

Then there's the question of distance and physics. The distances in space are vast and do not yet know of a definite way to travel faster than light. Now, we have hypotheses of how it could be done, but we have no definite practical answer either. We can assume that alien species more advanced than us have found a way, but because it's all an unknown, we could just as easily assume that it really is impossible.

Then there's the question of how UFOs are said to operate. They light up, they are funny shapes, and always fast enough to be out of reach. To me, if a highly advanced species wanted to elude us with their probes or ships, why wouldn't they design something that was imperceptible to us in the first place? If they were unconcerned about eluding us, they could just come down and study us in an incredibly obvious way. And then on the point of abduction, it seems like an awfully crude way to operate for an advanced lifeform, and essentially the interstellar equivalent of bundling someone in a van. To me it seems suspect that aliens would be advanced enough to reach Earth but not advanced enough to do their business in a more sophisticated and stealthy way.

Then there's the problem of alien physiognomy. Humanoids with big heads, and black eyes and small bodies. Usually physically frail. Never a round ball covered in tentacles or something. Think of the diverse range of lifeforms found on this planet, and then extrapolate that to the unfathomable vastness of the cosmos, and yet we always come back to humanoids. This doesn't make any sense.

And then historically, the idea of UFOs and flying saucers only really came into being back in the 1940s. Before that it was phantom airships in the 19th century. Now, we talk about the rapidity of technological progress at that time, but to go from hulking airships to sleek hunks of physics-defying metal in less than a hundred years was no mean feat, even for those aliens.

buried wrote: »

You would have to show me exactly where these major powers have claimed so, and in the exact timeline. The US Military had prototypes for the likes of the Stealth Bomber back in the 60's so its highly likely that if the soviet states, lets say, encountered anything like that back then, they wouldn't know what the Hell those birds were either. I'm talking about LIES, and the USA's notorious and undeniable effort to spread lies and "known unknowns" throughout its existence to perpetrate its own global hegemony. Which, IMO, this is exactly what this new UFO/UAP craic is all about. From a known historical viewpoint, this is what makes the most sense.

The problem with this argument is that the observations we are aware of are of craft that defy our understanding of physics.

The stealth bomber or the Blackbird if observed by anyone would still be quite obviously an aircraft with wings, control surfaces and an exhaust plume, operating within the conventional envelope of aerodynamics and physics.

The observations we are discussing now involve objects with no discernable aerodynamic properties nor discernable means of propulsion. Yet they can accelerate at rates that would not only kill any occupant, the aerodynamic forces would destroy the material the craft is made of. Thus they appear to be unaffected by the atmosphere itself.

To me it's just as unbelievable that these are man made as it is unbelievable they are extraterrestrial in origin. We just simply do not have the capability to create or operate a machine in the way these operate. It should be impossible.

Then there's the issue of lies. Why lie? A coverup for their own prototype testing? The evidence seen so far has all come from the US military itself. The images and video are unclassified. If this was tech that the Pentagon wanted to keep secret, why say anything at all? They weren't observed by the public, no lies were needed.

steddyeddy wrote: »

I think the "picture argument" is disingenuous. There is no picture that dogmatic "this doesn't exist therefore it can't" sceptics won't say is fake.

The latest photos (below) which were discussed on 60 minutes were taken from a cockpit of a fighter jet. They pilots also stated that these objects moved in ways far superior to their aircraft. The Pentagon also confirmed that the objects in this photo are unidentified.





There is no photo that could be taken that someone like yourself wouldn't accuse of being faked.

The picture looks like a chip in the glass,

Why can't anyone zoom on any of thee the objects ever
Surely they have the technology to zoom in and at least have a decent look at them ,


Not buying that they can only get atrocious pictures ,


Surely when these things are noted the first order is to go get decent picture ?

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually it does. If we look at different species on this planet and how they evolve to exploit different environments and modes of living we tend to find strong similarities in physiognomy as a response to those environments and modes of living.

All very different species, mammal, bony fish, reptile, shark, but very similar "designs". Now there are of course other methods and types of swimmers, but that shape appears to be the most advantageous. Flying animals are similar.

So looking at the only intelligent and technological species to spring up on planet earth, us it seems there is likely to be a pattern here too. Any such species or potential species will require two limbs free and a method of grasping and fine controlled grip and manipulation, IE "Hands". If the pattern on other planets is of four limbed animals then bipedalism in intelligent life is most likely. Binocular vision will be a major bonus, which will also tend to mean predator ancestry and social predator ancestry with it. Big brains are a given. This takes round balls covered in tentacles out of it. Octopuses have very large brains, but most of that grey matter is tasked with trying to keep track of the tentacles. We can keep our grey matter low in that area because we have skeletons, so our movements are limited by certain data points which is actually an advantage.

Now of course other environments like a water world would give rise to a different intelligence and modes of being, or such a world wouldn't, who knows, but on a world something like ours with a similar gravity(likely as a larger world would make it incredibly difficult to get into space) and general evolutionary paths bipedal with hands, binocular, large brained, skeleton(exo/endo) type creatures would likely be the general theme.

I remember hearing a radio interview with an astrobiologist, or planetary scientist, who said that it’s highly likely the main similarity between us and an alien would be eyes.

This “theory” was based on the octopus, or cephalopods, evolving separately but still being, somewhat, similar.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/20/ufo-obama-cbs-60-minutes-america-aliens

Obamas take

“What is true, and I’m actually being serious here, is that there’s footage and records of objects in the skies, that we don’t know exactly what they are, we can’t explain how they moved, their trajectory,”

steddyeddy wrote: »

These things? Are you sure about that and what are they doing at that altitude? Satellites get launched into orbit by rockets. They don't fly up under their own power.

Well, they aren’t like that, as yet. At the moment there’s two of them up there whizzing around the Earth.



Was merely making an observation, the “object” in the first picture looks like one of the ‘Genesis’ satellites, it’s nothing personal.

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Well, they aren’t like that, as yet. At the moment there’s two of them up there whizzing around the Earth.



Was merely making an observation, the “object” in the first picture looks like one of the ‘Genesis’ satellites, it’s nothing personal.

I don't take it personally. I don't claim to know what the things in the picture are. Their observed flight characteristics don't match anything we know.

So you think the pilots and other people interviewed are lying? Why?

steddyeddy wrote: »

I don't take it personally. I don't claim to know what the things in the picture are. Their observed flight characteristics don't match anything we know.

I dunno, dude. You come across as aggressive and defensive if anyone doesn’t fall in behind your Fortean science views on these unidentified “objects”.

I, personally, would be waiting to learn a lot more and see less grainy footage, or blurry photographs, before I made up my mind on any of these things. You seem to know, for certain, what’s going on based on these but it just doesn’t “wash” with me, I’m afraid.

JackTC wrote: »

I don't think they're lying, I just think there must be logical explanations.

But you don't think trained pilots are capable of spotting parallax and other camera effects? I think they would.

I'm not against the idea that we aren't alone, if the universe is indeed infinite then it seems unlikely we are, I don't think its illogical as you say. But I'm remaining sceptical as long as its only the Americans talking about this. Where's the videos and pilot accounts from russian, chinese, british, french pilots etc etc? The Americans could basically be making all this up, all evidence so far is from American sources.

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Apparently they exist, so here's hoping they'll be released next month.

Two hopes of that.....and one of them is Bob.

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Apparently they exist, so here's hoping they'll be released next month.

The US military including pilots and radar operators as well as former presidents are stating these things are unexplained. Do you really think a high definition photo would convince those who think that 6 fighter pilots and a radar operator confused a weather balloon for an unidentified object operating at 80,000 feet a second?

MadYaker wrote: »

I dunno, are the Americans sandbagging? I find this hard to swallow. Is there anything similar from other governments?

Yeah, South American Nations & the Belgian Air Force.

Wakanda Forever!!