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oughterard people - see OP for Mod warning 29/09/19

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    #662
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    alastair wrote: »
    The leave to remain decisions are rare, why would you opt to buy euromiliions tickets if there was a lottery with lower odds and better payouts?
    There isn't, Euromillions is over 150million this week, some machines have packed in at the shops as demand is so high, dream big, take that risk!

    Also what do you think is going to happen once the uk shut the door on the EU? Bear in mind they've set new records for landings this week over at Dover, x86 landed upon multiple craft on one single day from France. Few (if any at all) were from Syria.


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    #663
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Lawson Ambitious Condo wrote: »
    There isn't, Euromillions is over 150million this week, some machines have packed in at the shops as demand is so high, dream big, take that risk!

    Also what do you think is going to happen once the uk shut the door on the EU? Bear in mind they've set new records for landings this week over at Dover, x86 landed upon multiple craft on one single day from France. Few (if any at all) were from Syria.

    Euromillions sells because it has high odds but significantly bigger payouts than anything else. That’s not comparable with the asylum claim lottery - lower odds and higher payouts available elsewhere.

    The UK leaving the EU will have little impact on asylum. The same criteria will apply to claims.


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    #664
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    alastair wrote: »
    Euromillions sells because it has high odds but significantly bigger payouts than anything else. That’s not comparable with the asylum claim lottery - lower odds and higher payouts available elsewhere.
    The reward for success (if JSA) is nearly triple that of the Uk. Yes indeed agree that big jackpots are often a big attraction.
    alastair wrote: »
    The UK leaving the EU will have little impact on asylum. The same criteria will apply to claims.
    Inc. Appeals and right to remain. But you do surely understand the (basic) rules of 'supply & demand', the gates slamming closed over at Dover is a major supply restriction in NW Europe.

    Expect an increase in business/applicants.


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    #665
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,905 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Let the people who want scammers (non UN vetted) asylum seekers into their own homes now do it.

    I am sure they will. ha fkn ha.


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    #666
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Lawson Ambitious Condo wrote: »
    The reward for success (if JSA) is nearly triple that of the Uk. Yes indeed agree that big jackpots are often a big attraction.


    Inc. Appeals and right to remain. But you do surely understand the (basic) rules of 'supply & demand', the gates slamming closed over at Dover is a major supply restriction in NW Europe.

    Expect an increase in business/applicants.

    The UK is far from being the most generous welfare provider for successful asylum seekers though. And the UK still attracts proportionally far more asylum claims than Ireland. So none of this makes much sense as a theory.

    The gates have been slammed closed for asylum seekers at Dover for years. Brexit won’t impact on that reality - it’ll be no less/greater a difficulty to enter the UK to make a claim.


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    #667
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,905 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    alastair wrote: »
    The UK is far from being the most generous welfare provider for successful asylum seekers though. And the UK still attracts proportionally far more asylum claims than Ireland. So none of this makes much sense as a theory.

    The gates have been slammed closed for asylum seekers at Dover for years. Brexit won’t impact on that reality - it’ll be no less/greater a difficulty to enter the UK to make a claim.

    Why or how do they still arrive to our Island Nations.

    Trafficked.


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    #668
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    alastair wrote: »
    The UK is far from being the most generous welfare provider for successful asylum seekers though. And the UK still attracts proportionally far more asylum claims than Ireland. So none of this makes much sense as a theory.
    Exactly, Ireland is better value. The uk is much closer to France (so cheaper/easier for traffickers). But once the gates really close, the gangs will likely focus on French ferries to Rosslare or Dublin instead of light craft and kayaks across a shorter stretch of water.
    alastair wrote: »
    The gates have been slammed closed for asylum seekers at Dover for years. Brexit won’t impact on that reality - it’ll be no less/greater a difficulty to enter the UK to make a claim.
    For years? Is that why 86 landed on one single day last week (new record) and 41 yesterday. Boris will have an increased border force to avail from, with additional checks at all ports and ferrys, Ireland will quickly become the defacto alternative.

    Even moderately skilled people will have trouble getting into the uk to live with his points system coming in.


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    #669
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Why or how do they still arrive to our Island Nations.

    Trafficked.

    They arrive by plane, by ferry, by independently hopping trailers, and yes; in some cases by paying traffickers. They still make their claim here.


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    #670
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Lawson Ambitious Condo wrote: »
    Exactly, Ireland is better value. The uk is much closer to France (so cheaper/easier for traffickers). But once the gates really close, the gangs will likely focus on French ferries to Rosslare or Dublin instead of light craft and kayaks across a shorter stretch of water.

    It’s demonstrably worse value. Worse odds, worse provision. The gates closed as much as they can on Calais etc years ago. There’s not going to be increased security on cross channel crossings.

    Lawson Ambitious Condo wrote: »
    For years? Is that why 86 landed on one single day last week (new record) and 41 yesterday. Boris will have an increased border force to avail from, with additional checks at all ports and ferrys, Ireland will quickly become the defacto alternative.

    Even moderately skilled people will have trouble getting into the uk to live with his points system coming in.

    Yes - years. The current numbers are way down from 2002 when 700 people per month were entering via cross channel and Eurotunnel entry points. The figure for the entirety of this year is only 1,256. Points have nothing to do with asylum claims.


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    #671
    Homelander
    Registered Users Posts: 4,364 ✭✭✭Homelander


    Homelander wrote: »
    Unless I'm missing something, the figures that show that 90-95% of them from certain countries are rejected as asylum seekers, would certainly suggest that they were only here for a better life and nothing to do with escaping impending death/torture/persecution or whatever. Now, putting that aside, because one could obviously claim that they're more than willing to work and not looking to 'sponge', if they were granted residency here. Isn't there an absolutely massive portion of African people legitimately living in the state that are unemployed? I'm genuinely just asking, because I don't inherently think what he said automatically has zero gravitas and can be just dismissed as baseless ramblings from a clueless racist.


    Sorry to quote my own post, but could someone address this? I'm not trying to be confronting, but more just curious as to what the response would be. I like to think I'm very much open to correction and education on this point. If proven entirely wrong, I'd gladly accept it too.


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    #672
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Homelander wrote: »
    Sorry to quote my own post, but could someone address this? I'm not trying to be confronting, but more just curious as to what the response would be. I like to think I'm very much open to correction and education on this point. If proven entirely wrong, I'd gladly accept it too.

    You are not wrong, it doesn't add up. Sadly our media are either too scared or to biased to highlight these discrepancies.


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    #673
    Doblin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 114 ✭✭Doblin


    So the people of Oughterard insist that the issue here is the lack of virious services, so I wonder if the government announced today that a Garda & Sargent are going to be based full-time in the station, 2 extra GPS were coming to the village and the local schools were to get more teachers/snas/resource teachers would the locals be happy? My arse they would.


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    #674
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Doblin wrote: »
    So the people of Oughterard insist that the issue here is the lack of virious services, so I wonder if the government announced today that a Garda & Sargent are going to be based full-time in the station, 2 extra GPS were coming to the village and the local schools were to get more teachers/snas/resource teachers would the locals be happy? My arse they would.

    How will we ever know that? There's not even a slight hope of all those services coming to a small village like Oughterard, so your post and its posit are total waffle. Such a waste of your time for writing it and mine for reading it.


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    #675
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    To add another bow into the scare-mongering, rabble-rousing racist that is Noel Grealish - he claimed €45,000 in unvouched expenses last year.

    Who exactly is ‘sponging the system’ here?


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    #676
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 4,977 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Faugheen wrote: »
    To add another bow into the scare-mongering, rabble-rousing racist that is Noel Grealish - he claimed €45,000 in unvouched expenses last year.

    Who exactly is ‘sponging the system’ here?

    Where does he come on the list of all td,s expenses. Or did you just single him out.


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    #677
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    malinheader wrote: »
    Faugheen wrote: »
    To add another bow into the scare-mongering, rabble-rousing racist that is Noel Grealish - he claimed €45,000 in unvouched expenses last year.

    Who exactly is ‘sponging the system’ here?

    Where does he come on the list of all td,s expenses. Or did you just single him out.

    I don’t know, to be honest.

    I would still say 45k unvouched is ‘sponging the system’ though, wouldn’t you?


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    #678
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,166 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Why or how do they still arrive to our Island Nations.

    Trafficked.

    Talked to a few Iraqis living in the US over my time while I was there. In those cases all of those I spoke with said they made it to Turkey and became asylum seekers. They presented to the UN and told their stories then waited. They didn't have a say of where they went at that point. They happened to be sent to some US representative who interviewed them and accepted their application and sent them to the US.

    From what I understand, developed nations commit to taking so many.

    Some of the stories they told me were f'kin horrifying. In all of their cases, they were Christians with businesses in Iraq. They had family killed and were threatened if they didn't pay them each week. Odd conversations to have as they were in the US and the US was largely responsible for what ended up happening to them. All but one had made peace with it. The one who didn't was pretty fired up. All said they will never get to go back home.


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    #679
    Wibbling wonder
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Wibbling wonder


    Doblin wrote: »
    So the people of Oughterard insist that the issue here is the lack of virious services, so I wonder if the government announced today that a Garda & Sargent are going to be based full-time in the station, 2 extra GPS were coming to the village and the local schools were to get more teachers/snas/resource teachers would the locals be happy? My arse they would.

    Speaking for myself that would partially address the concerns but bear in mind it is also proposed to bring in up to 250 asylum seekers which for our population is too many. We've already gone on the record as saying that even now a more manageable number would of course be considered.

    As has already been said though, there isn't a chance of getting those resources. We have been campaigning for over 10 years trying to get a footbridge over the river so our kids can safely walk to school and have gotten no where.


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    #680
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,954 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    alastair wrote: »
    Once again - it is not a proven fact. I’m well aware of the Dublin regulation. It doesn’t impose any obligation on the asylum seeker re country of claim. None. There’s a (remote) possibility the state might transfer the claim, but that’s not an obligation of the asylum seeker, but the recipient state. And the reality is that the Dublin convention is rarely enforced, except for repeat asylum attempts.

    https://fullfact.org/immigration/refugees-first-safe-country/#

    You are playing with words here.

    There is a provision whereby if a claim is logged in Ireland, the Irish state is well within its rights to transfer the claim to another country, usually the one they first entered. In other words, the Irish State is legally allowed to transfer/deport pretty much all of its Asylum seekers to another EU country.

    The Dublin Regulation is there to stop 'Asylum shopping' and from multiple claims happening at the same time.

    Dare I say, its time to update it as well.


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    #681
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,328 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Doblin wrote: »
    So the people of Oughterard insist that the issue here is the lack of virious services, so I wonder if the government announced today that a Garda & Sargent are going to be based full-time in the station, 2 extra GPS were coming to the village and the local schools were to get more teachers/snas/resource teachers would the locals be happy? My arse they would.

    Maybe quite a few of them aren't happy about a couple of hundred people being dumped into their area without any consultation with the locals.

    David Stanton has said on Prime Time that people souldn't have a say when DP centres come to the area they live in so maybe folks are getting sick of being told what to do.

    Stanton might be whistling a different tune though if one was set up in his own posh neighbourhood.


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    #682
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Maybe quite a few of them aren't happy about a couple of hundred people being dumped into their area without any consultation with the locals.

    David Stanton has said on Prime Time that people souldn't have a say when DP centres come to the area they live in so maybe folks are getting sick of being told what to do.

    Stanton might be whistling a different tune though if one was set up in his own posh neighbourhood.

    Thats ridiculous, there is a consultation process if 250 houses were being built - why is a direct provision centre so much different?

    It is a change in the usage of a property from a hotel (short term) to long term

    The Government are coming out really bad on this - absolute bullys (who in turn are being bullied by the EU)


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    #683
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,652 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Wibbling wonder wrote: »
    As has already been said though, there isn't a chance of getting those resources. We have been campaigning for over 10 years trying to get a footbridge over the river so our kids can safely walk to school and have gotten no where.


    Apart from a new bridge

    New bridge for Oughterard village as old structure to be bypassed by main N59 traffic

    The current N59 bridge on the Clifden side of the village will be bypassed to make way for a new bridge 50 metres on the village side.
    The old bridge will remain open for local access only.

    The new structure over the Owenriff River will also have footbridges added on both sides to ensure pedestrian safety.


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    #684
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,328 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    naughtb4 wrote: »
    Thats ridiculous, there is a consultation process if 250 houses were being built - why is a direct provision centre so much different?

    It is a change in the usage of a property from a hotel (short term) to long term

    The Government are coming out really bad on this - absolute bullys (who in turn are being bullied by the EU)

    It is ridiculous and I'd suspect he might have got a bit of a bollocking later on for saying it publicly but of course Miriam O Callaghan was never going to push it further with him.


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    #685
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,652 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    naughtb4 wrote: »
    Thats ridiculous, there is a consultation process if 250 houses were being built

    Consultation process with who?


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    #686
    Chinasea
    Registered Users Posts: 1,568 ✭✭✭Chinasea


    Doblin wrote: »
    So the people of Oughterard insist that the issue here is the lack of virious services, so I wonder if the government announced today that a Garda & Sargent are going to be based full-time in the station, 2 extra GPS were coming to the village and the local schools were to get more teachers/snas/resource teachers would the locals be happy? My arse they would.

    Look, where were all these protesters when Apple wanted to set-up close by and the hundreds / 1,000s of people that, that would have brought?

    Not a yellow vest in site, just red carpets.


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    #687
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Boggles wrote: »
    Consultation process with who?

    Consultation was the wrong word - you need planning permission and all residents/anyone can put forward objections/clarification etc


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    #688
    Patrick2010
    Registered Users Posts: 3,037 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Chinasea wrote: »
    Look, where were all these protesters when Apple wanted to set-up close by and the hundreds / 1,000s of people that, that would have brought?

    Not a yellow vest in site, just red carpets.

    Big difference in people coming to work and spend money in the local economy and migrants holed up in a local hotel


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    #689
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,328 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Chinasea wrote: »
    Look, where were all these protesters when Apple wanted to set-up close by and the hundreds / 1,000s of people that, that would have brought?

    Not a yellow vest in site, just red carpets.

    The centre was supposed to be in Athenry, that's not close by and it wouldn't have brought thousands of people.


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    #690
    Wibbling wonder
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Wibbling wonder


    Boggles wrote: »
    Apart from a new bridge

    That bridge is still under review and there is a bun fight between TII and Galway CC as to what will actually go in. There are pearl mussels amongst other protected species in the environs of the Owenriff SAC so we have had report after report but no progress. The Blason restaurant was bought approx 15 years ago to facilitate this same upgraded bridge and nothing has happened.

    Things move at a glacial pace here unless of course you are a developer with the Dept of Justice funding you!


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    #691
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,652 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    naughtb4 wrote: »
    Consultation was the wrong word - you need planning permission and all residents/anyone can put forward objections/clarification etc

    Which are summarily ignored at council level because they want the fees that such a development would bring.

    Any objection would have to be based on tangible reasons.

    One reason that keeps getting mentioned is they only have one GP, which even with the addition of 250 people is still well within the ratio.

    Has anyone asked the actual GP what they think?


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