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oughterard people - see OP for Mod warning 29/09/19

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    #632
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    alastair wrote: »
    naughtb4 wrote: »
    So given he can't prove it he should be deported yeah?

    Any idea how Ireland was the first safe country he encountered coming from Zimbabwe?

    There’s no obligation to make your asylum claim in a first safe country. So that’s an irrelevance.

    So why Ireland? It's miles away from the first EU country they would hit.


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    #633
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    alastair wrote: »
    There’s no obligation to make your asylum claim in a first safe country. So that’s an irrelevance.

    aw come on now ........

    now whos spreading falsehoods joe ?

    "To avoid abuses, European law, the Dublin Regulation, requires that asylum seekers have their asylum claim registered in the first country they arrive in,[4] and that the decision of the first EU country they apply in, is the final decision in all EU countries. However, among some asylum seekers, the fingerprinting and registration is vehemently resisted in countries that are not considered asylum-seeker friendly, as they often wish to apply for asylum in Germany and Sweden where benefits are more generous.[5]"


    stop lying


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    #634
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    malinheader wrote: »
    Great social welfare benefits and if you're turned down you just keep on appealing till they let you stay. And even if you just decide to stay illegally there is little chance of someone coming looking for you. Great place altogether.

    Poorer welfare provision and less chance of a successful protection claim compared to many European states. Seems like a poor option for anyone intent on bilking the system.


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    #635
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,047 ✭✭✭malinheader


    alastair wrote: »
    Poorer welfare provision and less chance of a successful protection claim compared to many European states. Seems like a poor option for anyone intent on bilking the system.

    This must be a wind up.


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    #636
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    aw come on now ........

    now whos spreading falsehoods joe ?

    "To avoid abuses, European law, the Dublin Regulation, requires that asylum seekers have their asylum claim registered in the first country they arrive in,[4] and that the decision of the first EU country they apply in, is the final decision in all EU countries. However, among some asylum seekers, the fingerprinting and registration is vehemently resisted in countries that are not considered asylum-seeker friendly, as they often wish to apply for asylum in Germany and Sweden where benefits are more generous.[5]"


    stop lying

    Nope. Read that again - it imposes no obligation on the asylum seeker. It’s an arrangement between EU states, nothing more. It’s also largely unenforced.


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    #637
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    naughtb4 wrote: »
    So why Ireland? It's miles away from the first EU country they would hit.

    Again - there’s no obligation on the asylum seeker to apply at a first safe country.


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    #638
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    malinheader wrote: »
    This must be a wind up.

    It’s the fact of the matter. Compare Swedish welfare provision and asylum outcomes to Ireland.


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    #639
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    alastair wrote: »
    naughtb4 wrote: »
    So why Ireland? It's miles away from the first EU country they would hit.

    Again - there’s no obligation on the asylum seeker to apply at a first safe country.

    So you aren't answering the question?.


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    #640
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    malinheader wrote: »
    No.you Head for the one with the most gullible government.

    The one with some of the lowest successful protection ratios around? That one?


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    #641
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    naughtb4 wrote: »
    So you aren't answering the question?.

    You seem to be slow to grasp that there’s no reason for them to make their claim st a first safe country.


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    #642
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    alastair wrote: »
    Poorer welfare provision and less chance of a successful protection claim compared to many European states. ...
    Better welfare ultimately compared to many European states (JSA is triple the uk), a gamble many are happy to chance, after paying out 10's of thousands to illegal traffickers (another gamble), and 12hrs on a scheduled boat/truck (another gamble) to treasure Island.


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    #643
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    jay0109 wrote: »
    That says it all really

    Clearly not. What do you imagine it means?


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    #644
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,047 ✭✭✭malinheader


    alastair wrote: »
    It’s the fact of the matter. Compare Swedish welfare provision and asylum outcomes to Ireland.

    Sweden. Sweet jesus what an example. They have turned certain parts of that country into what they are supposed to be fleeing.


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    #645
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Lawson Ambitious Condo wrote: »
    Better welfare ultimately compared to many European states (JSA is triple the uk), a gamble many are happy to chance, after paying out 10's of thousands to illegal traffickers (another gamble), and 12hrs on a scheduled boat/truck (another gamble) to treasure Island.

    Nope. Any gambler worth their salt will bet on the country with better provision and greater odds of attaining protection. That’s not Ireland.


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    #646
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    alastair wrote: »
    Nope. Read that again - it imposes no obligation on the asylum seeker. It’s an arrangement between EU states, nothing more. It’s also largely unenforced.

    your just trolling now joe,

    you make false statements they are disproved you ignore and make more false statements
    its unenforced in come countries because of political interference in the justice system just like here ,

    not allowing fingerprinting of photographing, endless legal appeals, hanging stories evading bail conditions

    "The Dublin Regulation (Regulation No. 604/2013; sometimes the Dublin III Regulation; previously the Dublin II Regulation and Dublin Convention) is a European Union (EU) law that determines which EU Member State is responsible for the examination of an application for asylum, submitted by persons seeking international protection under the Geneva Convention and the EU Qualification Directive, within the European Union"

    busted again joe


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    #647
    jay0109
    Registered Users Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭jay0109


    alastair wrote: »
    Clearly not. What do you imagine it means?

    You've duped and baited enough on here tonight. I've better things to be doing


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    #648
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    alastair wrote: »
    Nope. Any gambler worth their salt will bet on the country with better provision and greater odds of attaining protection. That’s not Ireland.

    we pay out more benefits in cash, have an abismal fraud prevention toolkit and are a great jumping point to the UK. The volcanic ash cloud showed just how many people were living elsewhere and claiming welfare here. We had a case where a roma man had a property divided into 9 'apartments' to claim rent allowance on every room , by coming here they can have it all, claim the dole and a bit of fraudulent bonus payments here, go live in the UK and come back once a month to sign on. Almost nothing to stop all that free money leaving the island.


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    #649
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    alastair wrote: »
    Again - there’s no obligation on the asylum seeker to apply at a first safe country.

    yes there is see above

    your spooking


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    #650
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    alastair wrote: »
    You seem to be slow to grasp that there’s no reason for them to make their claim st a first safe country.

    yes there is ,

    again posted above


    spoofing again


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    #651
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    your just trolling now joe,

    you make false statements they are disproved you ignore and make more false statements
    its unenforced in come countries because of political interference in the justice system just like here ,

    not allowing fingerprinting of photographing, endless legal appeals, hanging stories evading bail conditions

    "The Dublin Regulation (Regulation No. 604/2013; sometimes the Dublin III Regulation; previously the Dublin II Regulation and Dublin Convention) is a European Union (EU) law that determines which EU Member State is responsible for the examination of an application for asylum, submitted by persons seeking international protection under the Geneva Convention and the EU Qualification Directive, within the European Union"

    busted again joe

    Yeah - you’re still not understanding the Dublin convention. It imposes no obligation on the asylum seeker to make their claim in a first safe EU state. If you actually thought about it for a moment, you’d understand that if it DID, there would be practically no successful claims in this country.


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    #652
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    alastair wrote: »
    Nope. Any gambler worth their salt will bet on the country with better provision and greater odds of attaining protection. That’s not Ireland.

    Maybe ask the lads that leaped out of trucks in Loais and Galway this year what their story was, were they attracted to the Irish weather, over the French port they left from?

    Any Gambler assess their risk vs reward accordingly, a 10/1 wild shot over a safer evens may well be more attractive.

    Maybe a string of free endless appeals (risk elimnation) is an attainment in itself, you only get one crack at the Superbowl winner you don't get another free go unless it's a money back special offer.


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    #653
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    yes there is ,

    again posted above


    spoofing again

    Repeating the same erroneous claim isn’t an improvement.


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    #654
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    alastair wrote: »
    Repeating the same erroneous claim isn’t an improvement.



    denying the same proven fact again and again is akind to a more serious problem


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    #655
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Lawson Ambitious Condo wrote: »
    Maybe ask the lads that leaped out of trucks in Loais and Galway this year what their story was, were they attracted to the Irish weather, over the French port they left from?

    Any Gambler assess their risk vs reward accordingly, a 10/1 wild shot over a safer evens may well be more attractive.

    Maybe a string of free endless appeals (risk eliminaiton) is an attainment in itself, you only get one crack at the Superbowl winner you don't get another free go.

    There is no endless appeals. There’s a singular appeal for asylum, then a subsequence claim for protected status. That’s it. The state may offer leave to remain, but there’s only two appeal rounds allowed for asylum seekers.

    The well publicised outcomes for protection are not inviting - about the worst odds in the EU.


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    #656
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    denying the same proven fact again and again is akind to a more serious problem

    Once again - it is not a proven fact. I’m well aware of the Dublin regulation. It doesn’t impose any obligation on the asylum seeker re country of claim. None. There’s a (remote) possibility the state might transfer the claim, but that’s not an obligation of the asylum seeker, but the recipient state. And the reality is that the Dublin convention is rarely enforced, except for repeat asylum attempts.

    https://fullfact.org/immigration/refugees-first-safe-country/#


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    #657
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    we pay out more benefits in cash, have an abismal fraud prevention toolkit and are a great jumping point to the UK. The volcanic ash cloud showed just how many people were living elsewhere and claiming welfare here. We had a case where a roma man had a property divided into 9 'apartments' to claim rent allowance on every room , by coming here they can have it all, claim the dole and a bit of fraudulent bonus payments here, go live in the UK and come back once a month to sign on. Almost nothing to stop all that free money leaving the island.

    No we do not. Not sure what fraud has to do with asylum seekers. Their claims are either accepted or rejected. No asylum seeker can claim dole. And as we have already established the odds of getting protected status are lower than other, generous welfare states.


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    #658
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    jay0109 wrote: »
    You've duped and baited enough on here tonight. I've better things to be doing

    Thought so.


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    #659
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    alastair wrote: »
    .... That’s it. The state may offer leave to remain....
    The well publicised outcomes for protection are not inviting - about the worst odds in the EU.

    They may well do indeed (leave to remain).

    Again odds may be high when rewards are high.
    e.g. There are roughly 100million euromillion tickets sold every single week across Europe (the odds are even higher) no matter, sure everyone wants to live the dream, it's human nature to some extent.


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    #660
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Lawson Ambitious Condo wrote: »
    They may well do indeed (leave to remain).

    Again odds may be high when rewards are high.
    e.g. There are roughly 100million euromillion tickets sold every single week across Europe (the odds are even higher) no matter, sure everyone wants to live the dream, it's human nature to some extent.

    The leave to remain decisions are rare, why would you opt to buy euromiliions tickets if there was a lottery with lower odds and better payouts?


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    #661
    Granadino
    Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭Granadino


    handlemaster wrote: »
    In short irish people are racist. Its ok somewhere else and the irish will talk with glowing paddy wackary superlatives about looking out for our fellow man. But alas it means nothing without action. How many times have we seen this over the last decade. .. ok were not against these people ... BUT..

    Not all, but yeah, for sure, there is possibly a racist element to the protests as well, though I wouldn't say the people in Oughterard are racist, but this land of a 1000 welcomes and we're friendly and great craic etc etc to foreigners has a whiff of billy bullsh*t off it. e.g. look at most of the staff working in crappy conditions for these dental chains in Ireland. A lot of them are foreigners, (or recently graduated Irish students). How many foreign dentists are working in private practices? That's just one example.
    Landing 250 people, no matter where they are from to live in a village or town is madness.


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