Dublin Marathon moves to lottery entries!

average_runner · 13-11-2019 12:58pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I meant the likes of the soup run volunteers, GAA volunteers who didn't get a ticket for any of Dublin's 5-in-a-row. Didn't stop them volunteering again.

You talking about volunteers at local level or County. Can you give county examples where the volunteer didn't get to one of the Dublin All Irelands over the last 9 years? As i know a good few and the tickets are rotated around.

average_runner · 13-11-2019 12:59pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

It is all volunteering.

Re the NY Marathon, I call BS on that claim

The 9+1 program allows NYRR members who meet eligibility requirements to earn guaranteed entry to the TCS New York City Marathon! Runners completing their 9+1 program toward the 2020 TCS New York City Marathon must have their nine races and one volunteer opportunity completed by December 31, 2019.

Higgins5473 · 13-11-2019 1:24pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

It is all volunteering.

Re the NY Marathon, I call BS on that claim

you've your finger on the pulse

https://www.nyrr.org/getinvolved/volunteer

PhilOssophy · 13-11-2019 1:29pm

average_runner wrote: »

The 9+1 program allows NYRR members who meet eligibility requirements to earn guaranteed entry to the TCS New York City Marathon! Runners completing their 9+1 program toward the 2020 TCS New York City Marathon must have their nine races and one volunteer opportunity completed by December 31, 2019.

And, have an active NYRR membership by December 31, 2019. But even that being so, you still need to pony up the entry fee for 9 races. All in all a bit more onerous than the proposal for being guaranteed an entry spot for rocking out and throwing water to people during the marathon.

Anyway, I think at this juncture, we'll just agree to differ. Maybe I have a different opinion of volunteering and what I expect in response.

adrian522 · 13-11-2019 1:44pm

The Dublin Marathon already does a lot for volunteers, your club gets a donation per each volunteer, the volunteer gets a free running jacket and they also get food and drinks for the day.

I find a lot of the posts on this thread to be a bit over the top in terms of the expectations people have of the Dublin marathon in terms of providing entries and facilitation people dropping out and refunding/exchanging entries.

Each to their own but I don't know of any races that do this.

Also on the NY City Marathon and volunteering:

* Volunteering on race day (November 3, 2019) at the 2019 TCS New York City Marathon does not count toward the 9+1 guaranteed entry requirements, except for volunteer opportunities at the start area.

robinph · 13-11-2019 1:54pm

Volunteers at the likes of Dublin Marathon and any other similar scale event are not volunteering for the marathon, they are volunteering for their running club who gets paid for their efforts. It might be that the individual gets nothing other than a tshirt for their efforts, but they are paid for by the marathon event and are not free staff.

Using the term volunteer isn't the same as being a volunteer for a parkrun and is really the wrong word. Not sure what the right word is though.

TaurenDruid · 13-11-2019 3:53pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Why? So if I volunteer to throw out water bottles at the Marathon next year, you think that should guarantee me an entry?

Do volunteers at music festivals get free tickets for the following year? No.
Do the volunteers who do the soup run for the Simon Community get something in response? No.

People volunteer the length and breath of the country, be it in GAA clubs or football or rugby or whatever clubs. They expect nothing in return. Why is this different? I know people who volunteer in football clubs in Dublin and didn't get a sniff at an All-Ireland ticket this year, they just got on with it.

Yes, as pointed out, as a voiunteer at music gigs and festivals, I get free entry and can watch whatever I want before or after my shift. And I get free beer.

St John's Ambulance, Order of Malta, etc - all get to enjoy sports, music and other events for free.

And volunteers look out for volunteers - even if it's "only" my local parkrun, the person who brought along the cake will make sure the timekeepers, token person and barcode scanners get offered cake before the participants do.

And see the bit where I mentioned "not free"? Just, like, the option of an entry? Obviously, it would have to be paid for.

skyblue46 · 15-11-2019 9:16pm

16,000 places taken. Mental!!

morceli · 15-11-2019 10:31pm

Yep 6200 in the lottery now 🙂

rovers_runner · 15-11-2019 10:49pm

Two possible outcomes here.

1. Move start/finish to the Phoenix Park.

2. Change the start finish area drastically in town.
Take out pinch point 200m into the race
Change finish to head back out of town to allow more space for post race needs.

MonkstownHoop · 15-11-2019 10:59pm

rovers_runner wrote: »

Two possible outcomes here.

1. Move start/finish to the Phoenix Park.

2. Change the start finish area drastically in town.
Take out pinch point 200m into the race
Change finish to head back out of town to allow more space for post race needs.

That seems to be a theory doing the rounds that they are trying to use demand to push the council to allow them make a change

ligerdub · 15-11-2019 11:33pm

ligerdub wrote: »

So with that in mind it's reasonable to assume that there was in the region of 40,000 emails sent out. Of these a lot of them were probably international and unlikely to do again. I'd say it will run close to filling up from past entrants alone though. My guess would be about 15,000 will take up their spot over the 72 hours but that's just a guess.

Well.....I was close.

Pretty much an ideal scenario from the organisers point of view. It keeps the repeat entrants happy but also leaves those looking for a first time entry with a reasonable shot of getting in. At a guess I'd say they have a better than 50:50 chance of claiming a spot, particularly if you consider those cancelling their number over the next few months.

rovers_runner · 15-11-2019 11:42pm

MonkstownHoop wrote: »

That seems to be a theory doing the rounds that they are trying to use demand to push the council to allow them make a change

Jim has acknowledged himself that the current location or its setup on race day has its limitations numbers wise.
Either location changes altogether or big rethink of start/finish area if they get over 25000 of a permit.

robinph · 16-11-2019 12:28am

rovers_runner wrote: »

Two possible outcomes here.

1. Move start/finish to the Phoenix Park.

2. Change the start finish area drastically in town.
Take out pinch point 200m into the race
Change finish to head back out of town to allow more space for post race needs.

Finish area doesn't really matter as you have a relatively controlled and predictable number of people to deal with at any time. The start is what needs to change, streets are narrow (when dealing with tens of thousands of people at the same time) limited space for loos and a 90degree turn after a few hundred meters. Just having the start along the quays would be a massive improvement in getting people moving as you then have a long straight, but move the start out to a big park space and still have the finish in the center would be the best for the runners, just need to move the baggage bags around then which is a major hassle.

rovers_runner · 16-11-2019 4:02pm

Wonder does this 16100 include places set aside for AAI championship runners and GFA?
If not the they will be planning to oversubscribe by a fair bit it appears.

Cabaal · 16-11-2019 4:32pm

robinph wrote: »

Finish area doesn't really matter as you have a relatively controlled and predictable number of people to deal with at any time. The start is what needs to change, streets are narrow (when dealing with tens of thousands of people at the same time) limited space for loos and a 90degree turn after a few hundred meters. Just having the start along the quays would be a massive improvement in getting people moving as you then have a long straight, but move the start out to a big park space and still have the finish in the center would be the best for the runners, just need to move the baggage bags around then which is a major hassle.

Another option might be to split the starts ala London Marathon,
Have say 2-4hrs starting one area and 4hrs+ starting another and then they join the same course. Have finish area in the same location.

You'd only have to move bags for some of the people then rather then all.

Glencarraig · 16-11-2019 6:29pm

morceli wrote: »

Yep 6200 in the lottery now 🙂

Even less after the good for age is done.

RacoonQueen · 16-11-2019 11:31pm

Cabaal wrote: »

Another option might be to split the starts ala London Marathon,
Have say 2-4hrs starting one area and 4hrs+ starting another and then they join the same course. Have finish area in the same location.

You'd only have to move bags for some of the people then rather then all.

Yep different start areas would be the solution. The quays might work, one start on Quays, one start on South Quays.

ooter · 20-11-2019 4:46pm

interesting reading the comments of Louis Hogan in the new Dublin marathon book that he wanted the race to "cater for people who didn't necessarily belong to athletic clubs and who wouldn't have to pre-qualify" and "kept away from the athletic establishment."

Murph_D · 20-11-2019 7:09pm

ooter wrote: »

interesting reading the comments of Louis Hogan in the new Dublin marathon book that he wanted the race to "cater for people who didn't necessarily belong to athletic clubs and who wouldn't have to pre-qualify" and "kept away from the athletic establishment."

Surely the race already does cater to that segment, and has done for many years?

ooter · 21-11-2019 3:17pm

Murph_D wrote: »

Surely the race already does cater to that segment, and has done for many years?

i was thinking more in terms of the changes for 2020.

robinph · 21-11-2019 3:53pm

Murph_D wrote: »

Surely the race already does cater to that segment, and has done for many years?

Until the last couple of years it fully catered for people who at the last minute decided to give it a go and sign up a month in advance, sure how hard can it be. The move to the Sunday has made it much more attractive to international runners, and meant that you've had to plan months in advance or a year in advance for this years event. That is then only a certain type of person putting themselves in for that, although there will be a bunch entering just for a laugh a year in advance there will only be a small number of them who then actually follow through.

For 2020 though it is going to be significantly shifted towards people who have run the event before, even more than it might previously have a significant proportion who had run any other marathon before. New international runners are going to be few and far between for next year, and new marathon runners are going to be limited in numbers as well.

Depending on what they then end up doing with the entry system for 2021 it might just be a one off (plenty of totally new and experienced runners take part in London each year which has been oversubscribed since year 1), but they really should start thinking about how they are going to run the entry process for 2021 asap after they have finished with the GFA and championship entries for 2020 and not try an figure out the process based on firefighting against a storm of posts on Facebook and Twitter in the days after the 2020 event and with only days before they open the entry for 2021.

Talking amongst themselves to try and find an acceptable solution to the entry system is probably not the way forward based on the evidence of the 2020 process and they should think about bringing in some people with other ideas, but equally creating the entry process in a couple of days based on Facebook posts isn't the way either. The DCM and AI on their own do not have wide enough a spectrum of views to come up with an equitable solution, and doing the same for 2021 as they did for 2020 is definitely not the right answer.

tHE vAGGABOND · 22-11-2019 12:24am

Seperate start / finish area for the folk slower than 4 hours [or so] - but how would you enforce that, and ensure that a sizable number of folk actually did it.

the royal hospital killmainham is good and has plenty of space - as used for RnR; run around D8 or Quays and join the run somewhere around the Park or NCR

robinph · 22-11-2019 1:58am

A separate start for different speeds of runners doesn't help with anything it just creates the same problems in two different places. If you split the field evenly between the two starts and have them merge a couple of miles in once people have spread out the that eases the congestion.

Other than blokes running faster than 2:45, the two starts at London marathon are pretty equivalent in the paces of the runners in each (ignore the green start). There are a few more daft and very slow costumed runners in the red charity start, but other than that they are very similar.

Murph_D · 24-11-2019 10:33pm

https://www.corkathletics.org/news/1549-national-marathon-entry-2020-entry-update.html

HelenAnne · 25-11-2019 11:30am

ooter wrote: »

interesting reading the comments of Louis Hogan in the new Dublin marathon book that he wanted the race to "cater for people who didn't necessarily belong to athletic clubs and who wouldn't have to pre-qualify" and "kept away from the athletic establishment."

To be fair though, even with the 2020 lottery system and the GFA etc it's still going to be WAY more accessible than the pre-1980 situation Louis Hogan is referring to in the book (70 fast lads with big moustaches and short shorts racing each other around the back roads somewhere down the country, no water allowed, 3.00 considered slow etc etc) The Dublin Marathon has done so much to democratise running, even if there are issue with next year's entry, it's nothing like the old days where people would throw things at runners and women were getting expelled from the legion of Mary for running in shorts.

(Hope you're enjoying the book

)

SeeMoreBut · 26-11-2019 3:35pm

I heard the qualifying times was set by the AAI and not the marathon crew.

26-11-2019 5:10pm

SeeMoreBut wrote: »

I heard the qualifying times was set by the AAI and not the marathon crew.

The link two posts before yours says the exact opposite, quoting the CEO of AAI:

Hamish Adams told the meeting that Athletics Ireland had NOT been consulted on the entry restrictions, or Good For Age criteria for Athletics Ireland members

SeeMoreBut · 27-11-2019 7:01am

28064212 wrote: »

The link two posts before yours says the exact opposite, quoting the CEO of AAI:

Wouldn’t be the first ceo to not tell the truth.

I’m just saying what I heard from someone who spoke to someone involved in the running of it.

What interest have the marathon got in gfa as you need to be in a club for starters when the marathon is not run by the aai.

Marathon only want to full their places. Aai are looking for spots for their members. Why would they put in this rule.

nannerby · 27-11-2019 8:19am

Because the whole lottery thing has been handled badly from the start.

RacoonQueen · 27-11-2019 8:56am

28064212 wrote: »

The link two posts before yours says the exact opposite, quoting the CEO of AAI:

It's not surprising. Feels like they made the decision to do a lottery directly after this years race and didn't think it through.

SeeMoreBut wrote: »

Wouldn’t be the first ceo to not tell the truth.

I’m just saying what I heard from someone who spoke to someone involved in the running of it.

Seriously? Sure it wouldn't be surprising for someone who was part of the ridiculous communication of this decision to lie about it to cover their tracks.

SeeMoreBut wrote: »

What interest have the marathon got in gfa as you need to be in a club for starters when the marathon is not run by the aai.

Marathon only want to full their places. Aai are looking for spots for their members. Why would they put in this rule.

The marathon and AI have a long standing agreement that the National Championships are part of this race. For a very long time, when the race did not sell out, the marathon got an entry bump because of this. I would imagine the marathon also get a financial incentive from AI for hosting the National Champs and would have done for many years.
Dublin Athletics board and Leinster Athletics would, presumably, have similar agreements with the marathon organisers to host Dublin and Leinster marathon champs.

SeeMoreBut · 27-11-2019 9:32pm

RacoonQueen wrote: »

It's not surprising. Feels like they made the decision to do a lottery directly after this years race and didn't think it through.

Seriously? Sure it wouldn't be surprising for someone who was part of the ridiculous communication of this decision to lie about it to cover their tracks.

The marathon and AI have a long standing agreement that the National Championships are part of this race. For a very long time, when the race did not sell out, the marathon got an entry bump because of this. I would imagine the marathon also get a financial incentive from AI for hosting the National Champs and would have done for many years.
Dublin Athletics board and Leinster Athletics would, presumably, have similar agreements with the marathon organisers to host Dublin and Leinster marathon champs.

They are not one for slinging mud but they had an awful week so probably best to leave as is than start fights.

Imagine if the aai came out and said we set the times. Probably cause another discussion. Why say anything when marathon crew are talking every thing.

Let’s hope everyone learns from this

robinph · 27-11-2019 10:52pm

SeeMoreBut wrote: »

I heard the qualifying times was set by the AAI and not the marathon crew.

Other than separately listing a younger age category as well, it's a straight copy and paste from London Marathon GFA times.

Murph_D · 28-11-2019 1:31am

SeeMoreBut wrote: »

They are not one for slinging mud but they had an awful week so probably best to leave as is than start fights.

Imagine if the aai came out and said we set the times. Probably cause another discussion. Why say anything when marathon crew are talking every thing.

Let’s hope everyone learns from this

Athletics Ireland are clearly saying Dublin Marathon set the GFA times. Presumably DM would deny this if it’s not true. I haven’t seen any such denial. So let’s assume that DM did set the times, and what you heard from someone who knows someone who knows someone else may not actually be true. Cork Athletics present a stronger case, based on an actual meeting that people were at, and named names, with quotes, afterwards.

The cut and paste London GFA ‘intervention’ always looked (to me) like the work of someone not too clued in about the relationship between GFA and race demand. Almost like someone googled “good for age marathon” and just went with the result at the top of the list.

Surely not. I have no doubt these standards will be dropped. In fact, they have already been changed.

http://kbcdublinmarathon.ie/2020-entry-process/

Maybe best to avoid “I heard somewhere that...” and look at authentic information.

Glencarraig · 28-11-2019 5:25pm

Murph_D wrote: »

Athletics Ireland are clearly saying Dublin Marathon set the GFA times. Presumably DM would deny this if it’s not true. I haven’t seen any such denial. So let’s assume that DM did set the times, and what you heard from someone who knows someone who knows someone else may not actually be true. Cork Athletics present a stronger case, based on an actual meeting that people were at, and named names, with quotes, afterwards.

The cut and paste London GFA ‘intervention’ always looked (to me) like the work of someone not too clued in about the relationship between GFA and race demand. Almost like someone googled “good for age marathon” and just went with the result at the top of the list.

Surely not. I have no doubt these standards will be dropped. In fact, they have already been changed.

http://kbcdublinmarathon.ie/2020-entry-process/

Maybe best to avoid “I heard somewhere that...” and look at authentic information.

My age cat 65 - 69) has gone out by 40 minutes, probably because of the entire entries this year in said age cat only 10 would have qualified for 2020.

yerrahbah · 28-11-2019 8:55pm

Reminder

https://twitter.com/irishathletics/status/1200132291844100097

mutley18 · 02-12-2019 11:05pm

Sorry if it has been asked already but do we know how many entries are left for the lottery after previous entrants snapped up their loyalty places? Was this released?

rovers_runner · 02-12-2019 11:29pm

mutley18 wrote: »

Sorry if it has been asked already but do we know how many entries are left for the lottery after previous entrants snapped up their loyalty places? Was this released?

22500 - places
-16100 previous entrants
-3000 AAI championship places /GFA places

3400 ballot places approximately

Allegedly.....

mutley18 · 03-12-2019 12:57am

rovers_runner wrote: »

22500 - places
-16100 previous entrants
-3000 AAI championship places /GFA places
3400 ballot places approximately

Allegedly.....

Thank you! I wont hold my breath then

Dudda · 03-12-2019 1:40pm

I presume we've no info yet on how many entered the ballot? Was kind of hoping they'd announce something once the entry deadline passed.

rovers_runner · 03-12-2019 1:54pm

Dudda wrote: »

I presume we've no info yet on how many entered the ballot? Was kind of hoping they'd announce something once the entry deadline passed.

They would be in discussions with DCC and AGS at them moment to push for an increase in number I would think.

robinph · 03-12-2019 2:27pm

I predict an extra couple of thousand places being released a couple of months after the ballot results are announced, which will result in more outrage as people have to enter another lottery for those places and people who missed out on the initial lottery kick off about missing out and having made alternative arrangements.

Plenty more chances to get things not quite right in the process of allocating places for the 2020 event yet. They have good aims in what they are looking to do, but not quite enough idea of what will go wrong as they try to figure it all out on the fly.

sideswipe · 03-12-2019 2:48pm

robinph wrote: »

I predict an extra couple of thousand places being released a couple of months after the ballot results are announced, which will result in more outrage as people have to enter another lottery for those places and people who missed out on the initial lottery kick off about missing out and having made alternative arrangements.

Plenty more chances to get things not quite right in the process of allocating places for the 2020 event yet. They have good aims in what they are looking to do, but not quite enough idea of what will go wrong as they try to figure it all out on the fly.

I wonder how overseas runners will be accommodated? Part of the idea of expanding the race and moving to Sunday was to boost the economy with an influx of visitors from abroad, The current system doesn't rally allow for this at all.

robinph · 03-12-2019 2:53pm

sideswipe wrote: »

I wonder how overseas runners will be accommodated? Part of the idea of expanding the race and moving to Sunday was to boost the economy with an influx of visitors from abroad, The current system doesn't rally allow for this at all.

Absolutely, the only reason I knew that I'd need to be on the ball with getting my entry in was due to hanging out in these parts. I would expect that even though the previous three years of entries will have had a guaranteed place, the numbers of international participants will be down for 2020. Having 24 hours to make the decision to take their option of a place of flying over for a marathon in a years time isn't something that people would have been anticipating. Only that I have other excuses to justify scheduling in a flight or ferry over or I likely wouldn't have bothered entering.

Dudda · 02-01-2020 3:39pm

So from tomorrow 3rd until next Friday 10th those of us who entered the lottery will start to learn our what lies ahead for the year.

TaurenDruid · 02-01-2020 3:47pm

It's like the old joke about asking for directions in Ireland...

"Well, if I wanted to get there, I wouldn't start from here..."

kilns · 03-01-2020 11:58am

Anyone received entries yet?

amacca · 03-01-2020 12:02pm

What's this about loyalty places? Is it just 2019 entrants can avail of that or any past entrants

TaurenDruid · 03-01-2020 12:05pm

amacca wrote: »

What's this about loyalty places? Is it just 2019 entrants can avail of that or any past entrants

If you ran in the past three years, you could have claimed a space up to... last December, I think? The window has closed now.

rovers_runner · 03-01-2020 12:08pm

Looks like they are going to SMS a code to people, must have been over subscribed so, no word if they had any luck with DCC and AGS so must have hit a wall there.

https://eventmaster.ie/event/EDqu4EF74

Dublin Marathon moves to lottery entries!

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