Gangland Shootings [Mod Note in Post #1]

Commanchie · 09-11-2018 8:25pm

begbysback wrote: »

Wouldn't say his assumptions are outlandish.

Regarding the legal aspects of murder by proxy, did I not read cases previous where people were considered working on behalf of the state when committing serious crimes had some sort of immunity? Maybe it was cases in the north during the troubles, or might have been in another country.

In this country proxy has been used. Its yet to be tried in a court. Paddy hutch CANNOT be found guilty and in december this will become public knowledge.

Rows Grower · 09-11-2018 8:28pm

mynamejeff wrote: »

he isnt aware of the details either

he is just a fantasist who is pretending he knows people and details

That's a really interesting contribution jeff, nice one.

Oh, hang on a second is your real name jeff?

paw patrol · 09-11-2018 8:45pm

the kinahan cartel are an intriguing bunch .

I always thought ordering indebted junkies and cowboys to do their hits was amateur stuff but today takes the biscuit....

a fcukin blind hitman , you couldn't make that **** up

mynamejeff · 09-11-2018 8:52pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

That's a really interesting contribution jeff, nice one.

Oh, hang on a second is your real name jeff?

no mate it gerry ..... of course

Odelay · 09-11-2018 9:26pm

paw patrol wrote: »

the kinahan cartel are an intriguing bunch .

I always thought ordering indebted junkies and cowboys to do their hits was amateur stuff but today takes the biscuit....

a fcukin blind hitman , you couldn't make that **** up

They should send them off for a medical before employing, amateurs.

Sgt Hartman · 09-11-2018 10:09pm

It's absolutely embarrassing that it's been allowed to get this bad in such a short space of time. And by the looks of it it's only going to get worse.
The government don't care as they're only interested in pandering to themselves, their friends and their EU masters. They're all in bed with each other. Also there's too many do gooders in this country aiding and abetting this madness. RTE are a prime example, constantly pushing the pro immigration agenda whilst bullying people with their threatening TV license ads. As a result we're now stuck with a problem that could have been preventable if we weren't so soft as a nation.
It's bad enough having our own home grown criminal gangs without letting 2nd/3rd generation immigrant gangs take hold here.

Conservative · 09-11-2018 10:44pm

I don't get the commuter train very often these days but I was flabbergasted by the numbers of Africans disembarking at Balbriggan a few years ago. Anybody who hasn't witnessed it before would be shocked. What on earth are we doing creating ghettos like this?

We have enough problems of our own to deal with without importing the third world's castoffs. For every decent looking kid or student I saw there were many more who resembled the people in that video. Anyone who has spent time in London or Paris knows what these "refugees" bring to our countries.

I have no problem with sensible immigration and welcome it but we need a strict policy where we return to sender anyone who takes advantage of our generosity.

Repaying our country with behaviour like that is unacceptable.

_Kaiser_ · 09-11-2018 11:20pm

blinding wrote: »

^^^^^ We need to change our Politicians if we want to Stop Mass immigration .

Nothing Else is going to stop it .

The Italians change their Politicians and the lunacy that was going on in the Meditteraenean (?) sea stopped almost immediately .

If ya want change , change the Politicians . The lesson is there for all to see .

I completely agree, but the problem here is (and it's been like this for decades) that we have extremely poor choices when it comes to political parties and candidates.

You have FG headed by a social media obsessed spin master, more concerned with optics and his personal profile (says it all in that regard when his twitter handle, as Taoiseach, is "campaignforLeo"). Alongside him you have the likes of Coveney who is wholly beholden to the EU and Zappone who has been able to leverage her personal agenda and Americanised ideology since she agreed to prop up FG (Thank you Enda Kenny and his crusade to make "records" for himself at the expense of the country).

Then you have FF who have largely stagnated in the last 8 years and still untouchable for many voters as too many of their last government are still lingering around, and Micheal Martin can't seem to even contest with the aforementioned FG spinmaster.

SF are equally unpalatable because of their legacy and belief that voters in the Republic really consider a united Ireland as a key issue (they don't.. At least not beyond a "sure, be great yea" notion - certainty not if they were asked to pay to support it through higher taxes, and the security issues that would likely follow). Then there's the point that SF have no idea how to run a FDI dependent country of course.

Labour are as unpalatable as FF as they're seen as having sold out to become FG-lite in the last Government. Renua and the Greens are also going nowhere (the latter still associated with the last FF administration).

What's left?. .. Independents who are in many cases just cast-offs from the Big 2, or one issue crusaders. Then there's the alphabet soup of left wingers whose only useful purpose has been to hold FG to some sort of account.

But we can't entirely blame the parties and the politicians for all this. After all, they are merely the product of the electorate.... An electorate that in most cases is disinterested, deeply parochial and divided (look how easy it is to start an "us vs them" argument on anything), and who still admire greatly the "cute hoor" (how else could some of our TD's continue to be elected) and secretly admit that they would do exactly the same things that they profess outrage over whenever the latest scandal comes to light.

A change in political parties and personalities is badly needed yes, but first we need to change in how we engage with politics ourselves.

Conservative · 09-11-2018 11:37pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I completely agree, but the problem here is (and it's been like this for decades) that we have extremely poor choices when it comes to political parties and candidates.

You have FG headed by a social media obsessed spin master, more concerned with optics and his personal profile (says it all in that regard when his twitter handle, as Taoiseach, is "campaignforLeo"). Alongside him you have the likes of Coveney who is wholly beholden to the EU and Zappone who has been able to leverage her personal agenda and Americanised ideology since she agreed to prop up FG (Thank you Enda Kenny and his crusade to make "records" for himself at the expense of the country).

Then you have FF who have largely stagnated in the last 8 years and still untouchable for many voters as too many of their last government are still lingering around, and Micheal Martin can't seem to even contest with the aforementioned FG spinmaster.

SF are equally unpalatable because of their legacy and belief that voters in the Republic really consider a united Ireland as a key issue (they don't.. At least not beyond a "sure, be great yea" notion - certainty not if they were asked to pay to support it through higher taxes, and the security issues that would likely follow). Then there's the point that SF have no idea how to run a FDI dependent country of course.

Labour are as unpalatable as FF as they're seen as having sold out to become FG-lite in the last Government. Renua and the Greens are also going nowhere (the latter still associated with the last FF administration).

What's left?. .. Independents who are in many cases just cast-offs from the Big 2, or one issue crusaders. Then there's the alphabet soup of left wingers whose only useful purpose has been to hold FG to some sort of account.

But we can't entirely blame the parties and the politicians for all this. After all, they are merely the product of the electorate.... An electorate that in most cases is disinterested, deeply parochial and divided (look how easy it is to start an "us vs them" argument on anything), and who still admire greatly the "cute hoor" (how else could some of our TD's continue to be elected) and secretly admit that they would do exactly the same things that they profess outrage over whenever the latest scandal comes to light.

A change in political parties and personalities is badly needed yes, but first we need to change in how we engage with politics ourselves.

Great post. We need a legitimate alternative - an actual workers party.

The pro Catholicism anti abortion stance of Renua is not palatable to many on the "right" in this country.

I think Casey's inability to string a couple of coherent sentences together hurt him. He is not the person to lead a new party but a new way of thinking is badly needed. It's only a matter of time.

Varadkar will be viewed with as much distain as Bertie. The biggest sellout of the lot.

political analyst · 10-11-2018 1:49am

Clytus wrote: »

Do we have Mad Vic back on board? From what I've seen on Twitter she has bit of a hard on for Nicky!

Who's Mad Vic?

political analyst · 10-11-2018 1:50am

Is there any word on whether Fox and the Keogh siblings will be appealing their convictions?

Commanchie · 10-11-2018 1:58am

political analyst wrote: »

Is there any word on whether Fox and the Keogh siblings will be appealing their convictions?

Appeals were lodged.

Commanchie · 10-11-2018 1:59am

political analyst wrote: »

Who's Mad Vic?

Victoria andeenkova. Absolute nutball

hatrickpatrick · 10-11-2018 2:38am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

assuming for a second this is true, does that make the people who committed that murder any less guilty?

From my reading of the case, the issue here seems to be the identification of the people who committed the murder. Since this issue with Detective Fox is seemingly intertwined with whether Patrick Hutch was fairly identified from the photographs of the night, it seems to me that the issue here is whether or not certain members of AGS may have pulled an Ian Bailey on it and just decided to use the case as an excuse to go after Patrick Hutch because he was someone they didn't like and it seemed a convenient frame-up.

I'm not in any way saying that this did happen, merely that that's what seems to me to be the allegation being made. Reading between the lines, the most likely reason that Colm Fox's death and the notes he wrote is being used as a potential defense by Hutch's team is that (a) the Gardaí decided "f*ck it, we hate this guy and he has an interest in going after the Kinahans after what happened to his cousin, so let's just claim we've identified him from the CCTV footage even if we have no idea who we're actually looking at", and (b) that Mr. Fox ultimately couldn't live with the guilt of participating in such a stitch-up.

I have nothing to base this on other than the chain of events here, which is as follows:

1: The defense raises questions over whether Hutch was reasonably identified from CCTV footage, or whether there was collusion / pre-suggestion among the Gardai to name him before anyone actually saw the photograph (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circumstances-of-identification-of-patrick-hutch-were-sullied-and-tainted-court-told-1.3364392 and https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/identification-of-patrick-hutch-unfair-regency-trial-hears-1.3365623)

2: Det. Fox is found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound roughly two weeks later (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/regency-shooting-court-pays-tribute-to-lead-investigating-garda-1.3391049)

3: The case is adjourned four days later on the basis of "unprecedented conundrums" and complications arising from his death and the notes which he wrote prior to it (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/regency-trial-adjourned-due-to-unprecedented-conundrums-1.3397520 and https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/regency-trial-adjourned-after-late-investigating-detective-s-notes-handed-in-1.3401701)

4: Possibly grandstanding / attention seeking, but interesting nonetheless - Gemma O'Doherty, journalist of recent presidential bid infamy, posts the following tweets:

https://twitter.com/gemmaod1/status/966808880683671552

and

https://twitter.com/gemmaod1/status/967036387022254081?lang=en

Piecing all of this together, my theory is that there may have been an Ian Bailey reminiscent conspiracy to say "F*ck it, it's as likely to have been him as anyone else and he's a pain in the hole, so let's just agree a line that he did it and stick to that". Det. Fox, by all accounts a good, honest and hardworking policeman, may have found himself in the position of having to either go along with this or risk being alienated and ostracised in the manner of Sgt. McCabe, and ultimately couldn't live with the pressure or guilt.

We won't know for sure until the trial concludes and all of the evidence is (hopefully!) explained to the public, but if I had to guess, that'd be my #1 theory. Some of the other theories flying around, that he was actually in someone's pocket or in league with "Jaws" Byrne don't seem to gel with what initially caused a ruckus in the case just days before his death, which was whether or not Hutch was fairly recognised in the photo or whether people were "prompted" to say "oh yeah, it's him".

Omackeral · 10-11-2018 4:45am

political analyst wrote: »

Who's Mad Vic?

She was in love with Gareth Hutch and Graham Dwyer. She's a very level headed individual whose theories about state agencies are completely legitimate.

Commanchie · 10-11-2018 8:54am

Omackeral wrote: »

She was in love with Gareth Hutch and Graham Dwyer. She's a very level headed individual whose theories about state agencies are completely legitimate.

Had she a hard on for Gareth Hutcj too hahah

Collie D · 10-11-2018 9:03am

Commanchie wrote: »

Have you heard that defence in his case?
Have I said that will be applied?
Am i referring to Paddy Hutch

No
No
No

Want to tell us what you're talking about then?

Commanchie · 10-11-2018 9:09am

Collie D wrote: »

Want to tell us what you're talking about then?

According to people involved in the case (Which im not) on the eve afer the shooting in the regency allegedly Colm fox handed over CCTV footage of 5 people changing from cars after the shooting identifying to them who was involved.

On the day of the trial he then handed over a USB of him being blackmailed by said gangster and said his explanation of the identifcation process was flawed.

paw patrol · 10-11-2018 5:02pm

Commanchie wrote: »

According to people involved in the case (Which im not) on the eve afer the shooting in the regency allegedly Colm fox handed over CCTV footage of 5 people changing from cars after the shooting identifying to them who was involved.

On the day of the trial he then handed over a USB of him being blackmailed by said gangster and said his explanation of the identifcation process was flawed.

how did you come across this information? I'm genuinely curious.

Certainly there are suspicions galore about the gardai but this info is pretty detailed.

hatrickpatrick · 10-11-2018 5:04pm

Commanchie wrote: »

According to people involved in the case (Which im not) on the eve afer the shooting in the regency allegedly Colm fox handed over CCTV footage of 5 people changing from cars after the shooting identifying to them who was involved.

On the day of the trial he then handed over a USB of him being blackmailed by said gangster and said his explanation of the identifcation process was flawed.

Wait, who did he allegedly hand the CCTV to?

Commanchie · 10-11-2018 5:39pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Wait, who did he allegedly hand the CCTV to?

Best just wait to see how this plans out will be all in the open soon.

Tricky Dicky Ireland · 10-11-2018 6:24pm

Commanchie wrote: »

According to people involved in the case (Which im not) on the eve afer the shooting in the regency allegedly Colm fox handed over CCTV footage of 5 people changing from cars after the shooting identifying to them who was involved.

On the day of the trial he then handed over a USB of him being blackmailed by said gangster and said his explanation of the identifcation process was flawed.

You talk some unbelievable amount of unsubstantiated ****e

Commanchie · 10-11-2018 6:26pm

Tricky Dicky Ireland wrote: »

You talk some unbelievable amount of unsubstantiated ****e

Goooood

Commanchie · 10-11-2018 6:31pm

Tricky Dicky Ireland wrote: »

You talk some unbelievable amount of unsubstantiated ****e

Quick scan of your posts. Is viktoria a friend of yours?

Tricky Dicky Ireland · 10-11-2018 6:36pm

Commanchie wrote: »

Quick scan of your posts. Is viktoria a friend of yours?

As I said, you talk absolute and utter ****e..

Rows Grower · 10-11-2018 7:17pm

paw patrol wrote: »

how did you come across this information? I'm genuinely curious.

Certainly there are suspicions galore about the gardai but this info is pretty detailed.

You expect to be told where this info came from?

Seriously?

paw patrol · 10-11-2018 7:26pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

You expect to be told where this info came from?

Seriously?

yeah I do
an anonymous handle on a message board makes a claim without actually naming his source he can say where he heard it .
Its' not that hard to do without betraying his source, it really isn't...

"my mate in the garda told me" sounds better than the probable truth of "I heard it off a drunk at closing time".

Jeff2 · 10-11-2018 7:29pm

All that info was in the press or on the news for a few days and then stopped.
I'd guess by either a judge or guards.

Rows Grower · 10-11-2018 7:48pm

paw patrol wrote: »

yeah I do
an anonymous handle on a message board makes a claim without actually naming his source he can say where he heard it .
Its' not that hard to do without betraying his source, it really isn't...

"my mate in the garda told me" sounds better than the probable truth of "I heard it off a drunk at closing time".

Okeydokey, let us know if you get any updates.

paw patrol · 10-11-2018 8:57pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

Okeydokey, let us know if you get any updates.

I don't think you read my reply properly.
that's ok, carry on. keep liking any comment made by your other account.

Ash.J.Williams · 10-11-2018 9:01pm

paw patrol wrote: »

yeah I do
an anonymous handle on a message board makes a claim without actually naming his source he can say where he heard it .
Its' not that hard to do without betraying his source, it really isn't...

"my mate in the garda told me" sounds better than the probable truth of "I heard it off a drunk at closing time".

We're not anonymous

Will I Am Not · 10-11-2018 9:05pm

30-40 lads running towards Balbriggan train station about an hour ago. I wonder where it is happening tonight?

Jeff2 · 10-11-2018 9:35pm

If you read the news from the time leading up to and around when Mr Fox died then its not hard to figure out.

If the identification of Pat H is inadmissible.......

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circumstances-of-identification-of-patrick-hutch-were-sullied-and-tainted-court-told-1.3364392?mode=amp

Commanchie · 10-11-2018 9:45pm

Jeff2 wrote: »

If you read the news from the time leading up to and around when Mr Cox died then its not hard to figure out.

If the identification of Pat H is inadmissible.......

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circumstances-of-identification-of-patrick-hutch-were-sullied-and-tainted-court-told-1.3364392?mode=amp

Cox? Fox maybe.

Commanchie · 10-11-2018 9:46pm

paw patrol wrote: »

I don't think you read my reply properly.
that's ok, carry on. keep liking any comment made by your other account.

Hang on you think me and this poster are same person.

Jeff2 · 10-11-2018 9:52pm

Commanchie wrote: »

Cox? Fox maybe.

Yeah. The lead investigating officer that died.

Rows Grower · 10-11-2018 9:52pm

paw patrol wrote: »

I don't think you read my reply properly.
that's ok, carry on. keep liking any comment made by your other account.

I read your reply paw patrol, I read exactly what you wrote in the context of the thread.

I don't have any other account on here, what you see is what you get.

Commanchie · 10-11-2018 9:52pm

Jeff2 wrote: »

Yeah. The lead investigating officer that died.

Yes Colm fox

Rows Grower · 10-11-2018 9:53pm

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

We're not anonymous

We are.

Rows Grower · 10-11-2018 9:56pm

Commanchie wrote: »

Hang on you think me and this poster are same person.

Cowboys and injuns.

Commanchie · 10-11-2018 9:59pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

Cowboys and injuns.

I hardly have time to operate 1 account never mind 2, nor do I care enough to do that.

Clytus · 10-11-2018 10:28pm

Commanchie wrote: »

The fact he shot himself isnt the issue. The issue is why? What did he hand to the prosecution on morning of trial starting? What gangsters pocket was he in? What information was he caught giving to said gangster? Did he knowingly allow a murder take place?

Stinksss to the high heavens

Just what I "heard" or read somewhere..cant remember quite which, was that Fox handed over details of Regency suspects to Jaws Byrne. Think I mentioned this already on this topic someway back!

pablo128 · 10-11-2018 10:53pm

Clytus wrote: »

Just what I "heard" or read somewhere..cant remember quite which, was that Fox handed over details of Regency suspects to Jaws Byrne. Think I mentioned this already on this topic someway back!

It would be ironic if Jaws fcuked up the trial for his own sons murder.

Commanchie · 10-11-2018 10:59pm

Clytus wrote: »

Just what I "heard" or read somewhere..cant remember quite which, was that Fox handed over details of Regency suspects to Jaws Byrne. Think I mentioned this already on this topic someway back!

Quite close to what i heard

hatrickpatrick · 10-11-2018 11:02pm

Commanchie wrote: »

Quite close to what i heard

I don't see why this would cause issues in the trial though. The issue seems to be centred more around whether Hutch was actually identified from the CCTV footage, or whether people were prompted to say "It's Patrick Hutch" without actually recognising him in the photo. Supposing the investigator did hand over such details to one of the heads of the rival faction - would that necessarily make the initial identification of the suspect inadmissable in court? As appalling and corrupt as that would be, it strikes me that it wouldn't have a material effect on the legitimacy of the trial, which is obviously the angle the defense are going for given that they've been calling for evidence to be excluded, and the trial has been suspended while that argument is ongoing.

Commanchie · 10-11-2018 11:10pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I don't see why this would cause issues in the trial though. The issue seems to be centred more around whether Hutch was actually identified from the CCTV footage, or whether people were prompted to say "It's Patrick Hutch" without actually recognising him in the photo. Supposing the investigator did hand over such details to one of the heads of the rival faction - would that necessarily make the initial identification of the suspect inadmissable in court? As appalling and corrupt as that would be, it strikes me that it wouldn't have a material effect on the legitimacy of the trial, which is obviously the angle the defense are going for given that they've been calling for evidence to be excluded, and the trial has been suspended while that argument is ongoing.

Issues in the trial before colm foxs death was if 2 detectives discussed identification in the same sitting and if 1 email showed that another detective said " that looks like patrick hutch to me" he CCd other detectives and they were then used as IDs. This has been placed in court by the prosecution no secret.

But issue with Colm fox meeting with a convicted member of the david byrnes family providing information while he is a lead investigator is absolute suicide to a case if this is indeed true.

Nolle Prosequi will no doubt be sought on this by the defence as Colm fox was clearly motivated by something or other.

Lets get this straight though Colm fox did not shoot himself because he was gonna be reprimanded over a flawed identification. If that was the case Adrian whitelaw I.E freddie Thompson case would do the same.

Omackeral · 10-11-2018 11:19pm

Commanchie wrote: »

Nolle Prosequi will no doubt be sought on this by the defence

He's a rat that fella. If they get him it's game over.

Commanchie · 10-11-2018 11:20pm

Omackeral wrote: »

He's a rat that fella. If they get him it's game over.

Which fella?

Omackeral · 10-11-2018 11:23pm

Commanchie wrote: »

Which fella?

Yer man Noel Prosequi. Giving info to everyone.

Commanchie · 10-11-2018 11:25pm

Omackeral wrote: »

Yer man Noel Prosequi. Giving info to everyone.

Youd wanna stay off the 12 hours your delusional

Gangland Shootings [Mod Note in Post #1]

Comments