DEPRESSION SUPPORT- Anonymous posting is possible, see note in post #1.

tom_k · 17-04-2018 1:44am

Hi gr8 m8,

I remember you posting a long time ago, if I recall correctly you were saddled with debt and even sold timber out of the ditch to deal with it, I was impressed with that as some of your struggles at the time mirrored my own (then and now).

As the other good folk here have mentioned, please use any of the services available for your own well being whether it's Aware, your doctor/counsellor/therapist or just someone you can call into for a cuppa tay and unload on them.

In relation to your dealings with the department, there is a complaints procedure you can use, some say it's not worth it as they'll be on your back but it sounds like they may be there already. I believe that in the event of not being satisfied with this you can get the office of the Ombudsman to investigate. Leave this process to one side for now though and concentrate first on yourself and then your stock.

Keep a diary of all contacts with Dept officials/vets etc. get names and titles etc. This will stand to you in the future regardless. Even if you don't end up doing battle with them you can use it as a basis for your memoirs:D Consider having a friend present for future visits.

On the fodder, what little you have stretch it as long as possible, maximise concentrates usage and try to get a load of fodder stretcher mix or hulls or palm kernels or whatever your co-op or merchant can supply. Many are in this situation, not that knowing that helps much.

Minimise contact with negative people, there's a few everywhere.

Thanks for sharing here. I hope my words of dubious wisdom are of some use.

I wish you well.

bogman_bass · 17-04-2018 2:10am

I think the first thing to know is that if you decide to go buying more fodder or sell some cattle to get past the hump that there is no wrong option as long as you do something.
Sometimes the fear of doing the wrong thing means you do nothing. Whichever of those two you go for is the right one. Always.

Do you need to talk to someone for yourself? If you do then do it be it Aware or Samaritans ([URL="tel:116123"]116 123)
or Pieta house [/URL][URL="tel:1800247247"](1800 247 247)[/URL]
If you think its more serious call an ambulance.

its been a tough winter and you have the finish line in sight there will be fine weather later this week and it's amazing what a bit of sun does to everybodies mood.

gr8 m8 · 17-04-2018 2:16am

Hello.

I'm contemplating applying for a job in the department of agriculture actually!

Never wrestle with pigs · 17-04-2018 4:02am

Sell them ta feck before they put you in the grave. Buy a handful of runner heifers, make way more silage than you need and tipp along. Money isn't in it anymore and you Heath is your wealth.

whelan2 · 17-04-2018 7:39am

Are you full time on the farm? I found this last couple of months tough, I try and get away each day for an hour. Even to kids training to talk to other non farming people. Clear the head. I've lost two cows in the last week due to doing the splits, yes I'm annoyed over it, one of them was my best cow. If the weather was better they wouldn't have been housed and probably wouldn't be dead now. But when I'm off farm I leave the farm worries at home

_Brian · 17-04-2018 9:18am

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello.

Jesus, the neighbor next door has 20 cattle and about 100 bales of hay and won't part with any! One of those men that follows me to the Mart to see what I make and comes into the yard to see what I am doing but he knows I'm against the wall so I haven't seen him in a while!

I rang the department 2 weeks ago to see if I could zero graze my glas land and I still got no reply! They don't even try to feign interest anymore when I ring them!

It’s easier to ask forgiveness than get permission.
If zero grazing gets you out of a hole then I wouldn’t hesitate to do just enough to get by.
Animal and indeed farmer welfare should always come in ahead of the bull**** paperwork farming being imposed.

I’d send them notification, no reply within 48 hours and your taking that as permission to work away on animal welfare grounds.

It sickens me to see the lads to the pin of their collar and the department blanking them. The reality is someone is afraid to make that decision and so is just sitting on it.

Was talking to a guy yesterday pleading to get his Genomics payment out but they’re stonewalling him, he’s borrowing in the CU to ride things over which is a disgrace.

Doctors room ghost · 17-04-2018 9:19am

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Sell them ta feck before they put you in the grave. Buy a handful of runner heifers, make way more silage than you need and tipp along. Money isn't in it anymore and you Heath is your wealth.

Good idea and plenty of options available.you could sell out stock and lease it to a lad for rearing replacement dairy heifer if the ground suits and lads interested.you could also plant the lot of it and get a job off farm that might suit.you have options available if you want a change

Willfarman · 17-04-2018 9:36am

I would be very reluctant to contact the department on anything. Keep your head firmly under their radar as best you can. Are you intending to graze all the cattle mike or are you holding some for sale when you pervieve the trade to be better.
Are you in test?
Despite the negativity you may be hearing from guys the trade is quite strong. Sell some if it’s at all practical.
Ring teagasc and ifa. They will source some kind of forage for you when you nothing.

Shower, shave, and change your clothes every morning no matter how bad you feel. Make your bed without fail. You’ll be surprised how these little things give you a micro lift. Stay clear of alcohol and try walk briskly every day for a half hour at least. Easier said than done.

Reggie. · 17-04-2018 9:43am

Willfarman wrote: »

I would be very reluctant to contact the department on anything. Keep your head firmly under their radar as best you can. Are you intending to graze all the cattle mike or are you holding some for sale when you pervieve the trade to be better.
Are you in test?
Despite the negativity you may be hearing from guys the trade is quite strong. Sell some if it’s at all practical.
Ring teagasc and ifa. They will source some kind of forage for you when you nothing.

Shower, shave, and change your clothes every morning no matter how bad you feel. Make your bed without fail. You’ll be surprised how these little things give you a micro lift. Stay clear of alcohol and try walk briskly every day for a half hour at least. Easier said than done.

Something similiar to what you said Will but I love this speech from this admiral (commander of America's special operations group at the time)

https://youtu.be/3sK3wJAxGfs

Willfarman · 17-04-2018 10:00am

Love it!!

Buford T. Justice XIX · 17-04-2018 10:48am

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello.

I'm contemplating applying for a job in the department of agriculture actually!

Jaysus, things are never THAT bad:D:D

Look, you have the back broken of your problem by talking about it. Help is out there. You'll look back in a few weeks time and wonder what you were worried about.

My advice would be to ring your county IFA office. They will put you in touch with lads who deal with problems like this every week. It doesn't matter if you are a member or not, have a chat with the person dealing with this and explain your issues.

Fair play for keeping the animals looked after, firstly, a lot of lads would let that slide so that is hugely in your favour in any dealings with the Dept. The IFA will also back you up in dealings with the Dept and discuss ways for you to get through this that would suit your situation more than the Dept soultions and they won't let you have to deal with them on your own.

You're not alone in this, every farmer round here is under pressure but we're getting through it with some help from outside. It's nothing to be ashamed of, this is pretty unprecedented weather for the last few months.

And we're always here as well even for just a rant so no need to feel you're alone in this. Feel free to PM me with a few fcuks if you feel like it, I'll take no notice:)

gr8 m8 · 17-04-2018 4:52pm

Hello.

I'm just out of a meeting with the department vet and she explained everything to me. She told me that I am farming on the side of the road in view of the public and I don't have adequate housing or slurry storage, that they have gotten complaints about animals being out in all weather.

She explained that basically I'm only a cross compliance inspection away from being shut down!

I explained that if the weather had not been so terrible then it would all look different and she agreed but said that the weather is what it is! She thinks that if I just step back from it for a while and rest up and pull the place back together and work on the infrastructure then there will be no issue with me going back to farming in the future!

I can see where the department is coming from, I really can. I'm after calming down a good bit and want to tank you for all your advice and good wishes. But where I was angry, that hole seems to be filling up with guilt and shame over the state of the farm. I feel that because of my pig ignorance that it was the animals that suffered and have been paying the price!

I never saw myself as a cruel person but obviously my actions paint a different picture.if I could apologise to my animals I would! I would also apologise to agriculture as a hole for being such black spot against the proud community that stoke it's fires!

Reggie. · 17-04-2018 5:06pm

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello.

I'm just out of a meeting with the department vet and she explained everything to me. She told me that I am farming on the side of the road in view of the public and I don't have adequate housing or slurry storage, that they have gotten complaints about animals being out in all weather.

She explained that basically I'm only a cross compliance inspection away from being shut down!

I explained that if the weather had not been so terrible then it would all look different and she agreed but said that the weather is what it is! She thinks that if I just step back from it for a while and rest up and pull the place back together and work on the infrastructure then there will be no issue with me going back to farming in the future!

I can see where the department is coming from, I really can. I'm after calming down a good bit and want to tank you for all your advice and good wishes. But where I was angry, that hole seems to be filling up with guilt and shame over the state of the farm. I feel that because of my pig ignorance that it was the animals that suffered and have been paying the price!

I never saw myself as a cruel person but obviously my actions paint a different picture.if I could apologise to my animals I would! I would also apologise to agriculture as a hole for being such black spot against the proud community that stoke it's fires!

I wouldn't be apologising to anybody but yourself. You said it yourself that you did nothing intentionally to your animals. You only did what you could when you could.

Very easy for people on the outside to point fingers and criticise others. How do you know they wouldn't have ended up the same way as yourself.

You never went out of your way to harm your animals or cause them suffering so hold your head up lad.

Water John · 17-04-2018 5:41pm

Things are rough on many farms. Don't believe you're in any way alone. Have you anyone you can ask for help. That may not be actual physical but someone to talk things over with.
A few chats. A bit of a plan.

HughCassidy · 17-04-2018 6:07pm

Take care mate have a chat with your local GP you are under stress since last August it has never stopped raining conditions farmers have been through have been shocking I have never seen the likes on a lovely evening like this it is onwards upwards. Don't mind your neighbor a balloon full of wind would have more in him I know his type take care of yourself .

whelan2 · 03-05-2018 2:47pm

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello.

I'm just out of a meeting with the department vet and she explained everything to me. She told me that I am farming on the side of the road in view of the public and I don't have adequate housing or slurry storage, that they have gotten complaints about animals being out in all weather.

She explained that basically I'm only a cross compliance inspection away from being shut down!

I explained that if the weather had not been so terrible then it would all look different and she agreed but said that the weather is what it is! She thinks that if I just step back from it for a while and rest up and pull the place back together and work on the infrastructure then there will be no issue with me going back to farming in the future!

I can see where the department is coming from, I really can. I'm after calming down a good bit and want to tank you for all your advice and good wishes. But where I was angry, that hole seems to be filling up with guilt and shame over the state of the farm. I feel that because of my pig ignorance that it was the animals that suffered and have been paying the price!

I never saw myself as a cruel person but obviously my actions paint a different picture.if I could apologise to my animals I would! I would also apologise to agriculture as a hole for being such black spot against the proud community that stoke it's fires!

How are you doing now?

gr8 m8 · 07-05-2018 1:44am

Hello.

Well the truth is that I am all over the place! I'm wrecked tired and seem to split my time between extreme anger and deep shame. I'm not sleeping or eating and I am living in constant fear of the phone ringing.

The department official that drew the short straw and has to deal with me rang me in work last Friday week and I was talking to him and trying to assure him that I was after moving cattle even though it didn't show up on the computer in his office. While talking to him I missed a call from the department vet and when I finally got off the phone to him, the vet had left a text message saying that she would be returning out to the farm the following Monday at midday with an even higher ranking department official! She signed off with "thanks" followed by her name. I rang her back straight away and explained how I was talking to the department when she called and then went through the same information as I told to the department man! When I enquired about the visit on Monday she told me that was basically a treat and wasn't going ahead because I was moving animals!

I have been very sick the last week with a head cold and hay fever that lead to a severe chest infection, this coupled with worry and torment and lack of sleep and loss of appetite and basically I'm in a bad way all around! But it all pales when I think of the phone call that I will get from the department on Tuesday probably!

When I first contacted them, they were all about helping me and said that maybe I should scale back to 10 or 20 animals but somewhere they decided that I had to go back to zero animals but let it slip that zero was the number they were working towards all along!

I'm terrified to ask questions or go up against them in case they decide to take the herd number off of me. If they came tomorrow and looked at all the cattle out on the grass and the calves running around then it is like a different place but I know that they can't unsee what they have already saw.

My heart is broken because I got through such a winter and when things are looking up again i have to turn my back on all the animals and won't even see the new born calves running through the fields for the summer!

All this has come to such an indelible climax without anyone ever intervening In the bad days and when I finally look for help then this is what happens. It has shown me that my failure and short comings are just that, they are mine and mine alone!

A morbid message I agree, but that is how I am doing now!
Mike.

greysides · 07-05-2018 9:11am

Sounds to me like you should engage a solicitor so you're not dealing with the Dept on your own. I would imagine some form of compromise is possible.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 07-05-2018 10:03am

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello.

Well the truth is that I am all over the place! I'm wrecked tired and seem to split my time between extreme anger and deep shame. I'm not sleeping or eating and I am living in constant fear of the phone ringing.

The department official that drew the short straw and has to deal with me rang me in work last Friday week and I was talking to him and trying to assure him that I was after moving cattle even though it didn't show up on the computer in his office. While talking to him I missed a call from the department vet and when I finally got off the phone to him, the vet had left a text message saying that she would be returning out to the farm the following Monday at midday with an even higher ranking department official! She signed off with "thanks" followed by her name. I rang her back straight away and explained how I was talking to the department when she called and then went through the same information as I told to the department man! When I enquired about the visit on Monday she told me that was basically a treat and wasn't going ahead because I was moving animals!

I have been very sick the last week with a head cold and hay fever that lead to a severe chest infection, this coupled with worry and torment and lack of sleep and loss of appetite and basically I'm in a bad way all around! But it all pales when I think of the phone call that I will get from the department on Tuesday probably!

When I first contacted them, they were all about helping me and said that maybe I should scale back to 10 or 20 animals but somewhere they decided that I had to go back to zero animals but let it slip that zero was the number they were working towards all along!

I'm terrified to ask questions or go up against them in case they decide to take the herd number off of me. If they came tomorrow and looked at all the cattle out on the grass and the calves running around then it is like a different place but I know that they can't unsee what they have already saw.

My heart is broken because I got through such a winter and when things are looking up again i have to turn my back on all the animals and won't even see the new born calves running through the fields for the summer!

All this has come to such an indelible climax without anyone ever intervening In the bad days and when I finally look for help then this is what happens. It has shown me that my failure and short comings are just that, they are mine and mine alone!

A morbid message I agree, but that is how I am doing now!
Mike.

Mike, I'd echo greysides here. You need someone in your corner to even up the numbers.

As far as I know, the Dept shouldn't have phoned twice in the one day. It looks to me like there are two officials dealing with this that aren't communicating or else they are trying to wear you down by sheer numbers.

Those two phone calls boiled my p!$$ when I read it! That's just intimidation, pure and simple

You too have rights here. You don't need to be dealing with this on your own and you have the right to have someone else there when the Dept officials call.

I don't know if you are a member of any farm organisation but they have representatives who deal with cases like this and many worse fairly often.

I highly, highly recommend that you contact one of them and ask for some help in dealing with this. It's not going to end as badly as you fear, there is always room for negotiation and the reps are very, very good at dealing with negotiations with the dept.

Water John · 07-05-2018 1:18pm

Certainly, if its Cork, you can contact me and I'll help as much as I can. I understand, animal welfare concerns but as Buford said, many places a lot worse.
You have rights too, they aren't, a law unto themselves.

gr8 m8 · 08-05-2018 9:06pm

Hello again.

Well long story short a family member of mine got in touch with a local TD and as far as I know, it's all sorted! Apparently they have no right to make me sell my animals.

I didn't know that these phone calls had taken place and only the family member reported it to me at lunchtime. To be honest I'm not sure what to expect now from the department Incase they decide to kick back but i suppose time will tell.

I'm going to try and get in touch with the TD over the week and I'll let you know more if anyone is interested?

Otherwise I want to thank everyone for their words of kindness, wisdom, rebellion and motivation!

So thank you very much!
Best regards, Mike.

Reggie. · 08-05-2018 9:12pm

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello again.

Well long story short a family member of mine got in touch with a local TD and as far as I know, it's all sorted! Apparently they have no right to make me sell my animals.

I didn't know that these phone calls had taken place and only the family member reported it to me at lunchtime. To be honest I'm not sure what to expect now from the department Incase they decide to kick back but i suppose time will tell.

I'm going to try and get in touch with the TD over the week and I'll let you know more if anyone is interested?

Otherwise I want to thank everyone for their words of kindness, wisdom, rebellion and motivation!

So thank you very much!
Best regards, Mike.

Great to hear. Keep us informed if you wish

Buford T. Justice XIX · 08-05-2018 9:19pm

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello again.

Well long story short a family member of mine got in touch with a local TD and as far as I know, it's all sorted! Apparently they have no right to make me sell my animals.

I didn't know that these phone calls had taken place and only the family member reported it to me at lunchtime. To be honest I'm not sure what to expect now from the department Incase they decide to kick back but i suppose time will tell.

I'm going to try and get in touch with the TD over the week and I'll let you know more if anyone is interested?

Otherwise I want to thank everyone for their words of kindness, wisdom, rebellion and motivation!

So thank you very much!
Best regards, Mike.

That's great, Mike:)

whelan2 · 08-05-2018 9:25pm

It must be a great weight lifted off your shoulders

gr8 m8 · 09-05-2018 8:00am

Hello.

I'm delighted so don't take me up wrong but I am a little apprehensive at what might happen with the department simply because of wounded pride. They were so adamant about selling the animals. But also I'm hurt by them for forcing their opinion across as law! Isn't farming hard enough without having to contend with that sort of behavior from them?

Water John · 09-05-2018 2:23pm

That helpful family member, should be in the yard with you when talking to Dept officials. A supporting presence and witness.

grange mac · 12-05-2018 10:42pm

Please check on your neighbors. Heard today guy not so far away from me has been sectioned. Dept were out apparently put down cattle won't say the number but its high. Another number were in laying dead around place. He had no feed for them. We not out of woods yet im west cork anyhow. Apparently another 5 farmers in same place he is. Never know whats going on in farmers yard. Costs nothing to say hello!

gr8 m8 · 13-05-2018 3:13pm

Hello again.

So I had the department back on to me. They knew nothing about the TD getting involved and were angry at my lack of progress in selling the animals. I completely threw my family member under the bus in explaining that I hadn't contacted anyone and the response was "what were they hoping to accomplish?".

I leveled with them in every aspect of what was going on and explained how I will do anything just to hold onto the best of my cattle. They said to sell everything else and when I m down to that then we will negotiate.

They warned that if a big push is not put in for the next 2 weeks then it becomes a more formal matter and the trucks will be sent in and I will be left with nothing! I told them that if that is to happen then they better bring plenty help because I understand that they are only doing their job and I will only be protecting my livelihood!

I rang the office of the TD and asked what was going on, they explained that it seems to be that my family member (aka my mother) only told them a rose tinted version of what was going on! I told them everything then and they still don't understand why I have to destock!

I've decided to go ahead with the plan of drastically cutting numbers to a more manageable proportion and then going back to the department to see what they say before going back to the TD.

But Jesus I am tied in knot's again by my mother's carry on. She won't speak to me now because I gave out to her for interfering the way she did without my knowledge and then only giving a story that mistakes opinion for fact!

I really wish I had someone to lean on going through this but I just seem to be on my own.

Anyway that is the update and I wish it was better news but there you go.

Bullocks · 13-05-2018 3:38pm

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello again.

So I had the department back on to me. They knew nothing about the TD getting involved and were angry at my lack of progress in selling the animals. I completely threw my family member under the bus in explaining that I hadn't contacted anyone and the response was "what were they hoping to accomplish?".

I leveled with them in every aspect of what was going on and explained how I will do anything just to hold onto the best of my cattle. They said to sell everything else and when I m down to that then we will negotiate.

They warned that if a big push is not put in for the next 2 weeks then it becomes a more formal matter and the trucks will be sent in and I will be left with nothing! I told them that if that is to happen then they better bring plenty help because I understand that they are only doing their job and I will only be protecting my livelihood!

I rang the office of the TD and asked what was going on, they explained that it seems to be that my family member (aka my mother) only told them a rose tinted version of what was going on! I told them everything then and they still don't understand why I have to destock!

I've decided to go ahead with the plan of drastically cutting numbers to a more manageable proportion and then going back to the department to see what they say before going back to the TD.

But Jesus I am tied in knot's again by my mother's carry on. She won't speak to me now because I gave out to her for interfering the way she did without my knowledge and then only giving a story that mistakes opinion for fact!

I really wish I had someone to lean on going through this but I just seem to be on my own.

Anyway that is the update and I wish it was better news but there you go.

Do you have an ag advisor ? If not I think it would be well worthwhile to get one and put together a plan that you can comfortably work with for the next year and that the dept can accept and hopefully step back .
If there is no one else around during these dept visits for support then get the advisor to stand in and help fight your corner .
Are the dept giving notice of their visits or just calling unannounced ?

gr8 m8 · 13-05-2018 4:23pm

Hello.

They do give notice and for the most part are letting me at it, for which I am grateful!

The department vet has said that she realised that it was a difficult time and has said that for the most part I have been very polite in my dealings with them.

I don't want to bring in the advisor, I just don't want another person knowing my business.

I'm not so bad when it comes to the department these days because I have told them only the truth, but it is the evenings that are cruel. I just wish that there was someone just to bounce ideas off and the opportunity to just let down this wall I have put up.

After work today i was selling a few animals so i rang the mother to send down the brother. She said that they hadn't been to mass yet, they always go to the early mass so I said that she knew I had a man coming for animals today. Her reply was "can't that man load them with you, or get one of your friends to help you!".

I just don't bloody know anymore!

gr8 m8 · 13-05-2018 4:37pm

Hello again.

My plan for the department is:

21 cows
Because I have a 3 bay slatted shed, so that is 7 cows/bay. Each bay is 20 ft deep by the width of the bay which is the standard 15ft or so.

1 bull
easy calving so as to avoid any hardships during calving season

Calves in March and April,
Wean in September,
Sell in the mart in October.

I have the 25 acres of traditional hay meadow in GLAS so I will have beyond ample fodder for 20 odd cows.

Any replacement heifer's will be calved at 24 months but even then I will hold the herd at 21 breeding cows by either substituting the cows or selling the heifer.

That is the plan that I am going to put to the department when the time comes!

Any suggestions?

greysides · 13-05-2018 4:46pm

I don't want to bring in the advisor, I just don't want another person knowing my business.

That could be the rock you perish on. Asking for help, as you did here is a sign of strength, not weakness. If not an advisor, a solicitor who would understand confidentiality would mean you are not fighting alone.

There is wisdom in reducing animals to allow you to regroup with some comfort but I don't like the way it was mentioned as a precondition to negotiation. You really need an advocate in your corner.

Bullocks · 13-05-2018 4:46pm

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello.

They do give notice and for the most part are letting me at it, for which I am grateful!

The department vet has said that she realised that it was a difficult time and has said that for the most part I have been very polite in my dealings with them.

I don't want to bring in the advisor, I just don't want another person knowing my business.

I'm not so bad when it comes to the department these days because I have told them only the truth, but it is the evenings that are cruel. I just wish that there was someone just to bounce ideas off and the opportunity to just let down this wall I have put up.

After work today i was selling a few animals so i rang the mother to send down the brother. She said that they hadn't been to mass yet, they always go to the early mass so I said that she knew I had a man coming for animals today. Her reply was "can't that man load them with you, or get one of your friends to help you!".

I just don't bloody know anymore!

I can understand not wanting anyone knowing your business . Certainly don't be afraid to bounce ideas around here if it helps .

Bullocks · 13-05-2018 4:59pm

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello again.

My plan for the department is:

21 cows
Because I have a 3 bay slatted shed, so that is 7 cows/bay. Each bay is 20 ft deep by the width of the bay which is the standard 15ft or so.

1 bull
easy calving so as to avoid any hardships during calving season

Calves in March and April,
Wean in September,
Sell in the mart in October.

I have the 25 acres of traditional hay meadow in GLAS so I will have beyond ample fodder for 20 odd cows.

Any replacement heifer's will be calved at 24 months but even then I will hold the herd at 21 breeding cows by either substituting the cows or selling the heifer.

That is the plan that I am going to put to the department when the time comes!

Any suggestions?

I would (for the first year anyhow ) cut down to maybe even 10 / 15 cows to just really be sure of having enough slurry . There isnt a whole pile of profit in the suckler cows so you won't loose out much by not having full capacity
Could be a possibility to keep a few heifers instead of selling in autumn , they are easier kept than a cow all winter and you could sell before calving starts to bring in a few pound in springtime

longgonesilver · 13-05-2018 5:16pm

Hi Sorry to hear that you are still in trouble, I really hoped that you had it sorted.
You will get loads of help with practical farming matters here but we need more information if you don't mind.

How many acres do you have, what numbers and ages of animals did you over winter and what other housing have you available?

Are you working full-time or part-time?

Have the department given you a notice in writing or this all being done verbally?

Above all , you have to look after yourself. We have all come through a very,very tough winter, most farmers struggled at times, but the weather is finally turning, even the worst of the fields are greening, we just might be out the otherside.

ganmo · 13-05-2018 5:33pm

gr8 m8 wrote: »

After work today i was selling a few animals so i rang the mother to send down the brother. She said that they hadn't been to mass yet, they always go to the early mass so I said that she knew I had a man coming for animals today. Her reply was "can't that man load them with you, or get one of your friends to help you!".

I just don't bloody know anymore!

Mothers are great at sticking their oar in maybe ask your brother directly not via your Mam the next time.

I would suggest contacting one of the farm organizations to see if they have someone that you could talk to

grange mac · 13-05-2018 7:06pm

Bullocks wrote: »

I can understand not wanting anyone knowing your business . Certainly don't be afraid to bounce ideas around here if it helps .

If you are not memeber of teagasc and based in cork/kerry ring owen o Driscoll ag advisor in skibbereen. He is independent and current president of ag advisors nationally so if not local he will point you in direction of someone who can work with you through your present situation. For god sake man, do it first thing in morning cant be easy having that hanging over your shoulders.

Gr8 M8 that msg is for you btw.

Base price · 13-05-2018 10:01pm

Can the Dept force a farmer/part time farmer to destock fully. I always got the impression from reading media articles that a Judge (through the Courts) could only make that decision. I understand on animal health and welfare grounds the Dept can make arrangements to reduce numbers but I didn't think it included full destocking.
Edit re destocking: excluding illegal movements, hormone use etc.

wrangler · 14-05-2018 7:44am

Base price wrote: »

Can the Dept force a farmer/part time farmer to destock fully. I always got the impression from reading media articles that a Judge (through the Courts) could only make that decision. I understand on animal health and welfare grounds the Dept can make arrangements to reduce numbers but I didn't think it included full destocking.
Edit re destocking: excluding illegal movements, hormone use etc.

It was done here locally in the last twelve mths, Guards, lorries and Department arrived early one morning....more than likely there was a court order involved..
There's another farm here where the department is involved and really he should be gone years ago...really not fair on the animals.
Dept. really gives people every chance

gr8 m8 · 14-05-2018 8:24am

Hello and good morning.

I agree with you to an extent, they are not Nazis of anything like that and do give chances. But at the end of the day they are not farmers either.

One of my major issues with the farm and as a result, with the department is that i don't have adequate housing for all my animals. The sheds that I have are old and seen better days and very spread out around the place.

A few years ago I got planning permission for extending one of my sheds. I told the lad's from the department that one of my major problems on the farm is the amount of time i spend traveling around the different yards.

They said to just put some slats down in one shed, put a silage slab at another etc. but I would be a fool to put up another shed. My reasoning was that I want all my animals in one place for ease of management. They got around me and I didn't build a shed, they told me to get a Job to bring in some money so I did.

Now they are back saying that the animals should be in a shed and I am not around for their visits without a week's notice (because I am working)!

How do you win?

gr8 m8 · 15-05-2018 1:08am

wrangler wrote: »

It was done here locally in the last twelve mths, Guards, lorries and Department arrived early one morning....more than likely there was a court order involved..
There's another farm here where the department is involved and really he should be gone years ago...really not fair on the animals.
Dept. really gives people every chance

Hello,

I have read this message several times and I have thought that it might even echo my own experience!

But in saying that, it also echoes other people's involvement! I hear all these things from the department, I hear whispers and all that carry on. When I am working I see neighbors looking over walls and ditches, I spot cars slowing down, if I go to the Mart I see the farmer next door sitting there when my animals enter the ring.

I know that people have their own things going on and are busy. But of all the people I see, I have only ever been visited by one person to ask me what the hell I was thinking? Carrying on the way I have been.

We talked for a while, I was obviously in a hurry to get things done so we left it there! I looked at an animal that night and for some reason I managed to convince myself that animal would not make it through the night! It completely broke my spirit!

In the small hours of that night I decided to do something very foolish by other people's standards, but I had enough of it all and it just seemed like the right thing to do.

Obviously I am here tonight to talk about it. A few days went past and that man gives me a call asking how I am doing and just says to me that I frightened him that night. He tells me how he has never seen someone look so tired and struggle so hard to put together a sentence and then leave, not to go to bed but to go do work.

My point is that while people say that someone should not be farming, they say that such a person is a bad farmer, that the department give you every chance. How many people actually say that to the farmer in person? Not say it to put them down but to help them realise that they are in a rut and people can see it!

It is very easy to judge a person for doing a bad job, it's easy to talk about that person and think they are silly or lazy or incompetent. But the strength in that person could be fantastic, they might not know how to quite. Willing to perish on this rock before submitting?

Soldiers did this and do it today.
Athletes do this.
Business people do this.
Parents do this.

They keep going despite the odds, it's an everyday accurace and we constantly hear about the success stories! But maybe these people who should have been gone years ago are the people who just couldn't get it over the line?

Or maybe they are like me? Just another bad farmer!

Thank you.

wrangler · 15-05-2018 7:24am

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello,

I have read this message several times and I have thought that it might even echo my own experience!

But in saying that, it also echoes other people's involvement! I hear all these things from the department, I hear whispers and all that carry on. When I am working I see neighbors looking over walls and ditches, I spot cars slowing down, if I go to the Mart I see the farmer next door sitting there when my animals enter the ring.

I know that people have their own things going on and are busy. But of all the people I see, I have only ever been visited by one person to ask me what the hell I was thinking? Carrying on the way I have been.

We talked for a while, I was obviously in a hurry to get things done so we left it there! I looked at an animal that night and for some reason I managed to convince myself that animal would not make it through the night! It completely broke my spirit!

In the small hours of that night I decided to do something very foolish by other people's standards, but I had enough of it all and it just seemed like the right thing to do.

Obviously I am here tonight to talk about it. A few days went past and that man gives me a call asking how I am doing and just says to me that I frightened him that night. He tells me how he has never seen someone look so tired and struggle so hard to put together a sentence and then leave, not to go to bed but to go do work.

My point is that while people say that someone should not be farming, they say that such a person is a bad farmer, that the department give you every chance. How many people actually say that to the farmer in person? Not say it to put them down but to help them realise that they are in a rut and people can see it!

It is very easy to judge a person for doing a bad job, it's easy to talk about that person and think they are silly or lazy or incompetent. But the strength in that person could be fantastic, they might not know how to quite. Willing to perish on this rock before submitting?

Soldiers did this and do it today.
Athletes do this.
Business people do this.
Parents do this.

They keep going despite the odds, it's an everyday accurace and we constantly hear about the success stories! But maybe these people who should have been gone years ago are the people who just couldn't get it over the line?

Or maybe they are like me? Just another bad farmer!

Thank you.

I probably didn't tell it right,
The second case in my post is a good farmer that has just got too old and doesn't want to give up, he's physically not able to go on.
It must be very frustrating for him......and the Department
Old age is not a problem, but you have to be prepared to employ help to continue farming.

Icelandicseige · 20-07-2018 2:18am

gr8 m8 wrote: »

Hello,

I have read this message several times and I have thought that it might even echo my own experience!

But in saying that, it also echoes other people's involvement! I hear all these things from the department, I hear whispers and all that carry on. When I am working I see neighbors looking over walls and ditches, I spot cars slowing down, if I go to the Mart I see the farmer next door sitting there when my animals enter the ring.

I know that people have their own things going on and are busy. But of all the people I see, I have only ever been visited by one person to ask me what the hell I was thinking? Carrying on the way I have been.

We talked for a while, I was obviously in a hurry to get things done so we left it there! I looked at an animal that night and for some reason I managed to convince myself that animal would not make it through the night! It completely broke my spirit!

In the small hours of that night I decided to do something very foolish by other people's standards, but I had enough of it all and it just seemed like the right thing to do.

Obviously I am here tonight to talk about it. A few days went past and that man gives me a call asking how I am doing and just says to me that I frightened him that night. He tells me how he has never seen someone look so tired and struggle so hard to put together a sentence and then leave, not to go to bed but to go do work.

My point is that while people say that someone should not be farming, they say that such a person is a bad farmer, that the department give you every chance. How many people actually say that to the farmer in person? Not say it to put them down but to help them realise that they are in a rut and people can see it!

It is very easy to judge a person for doing a bad job, it's easy to talk about that person and think they are silly or lazy or incompetent. But the strength in that person could be fantastic, they might not know how to quite. Willing to perish on this rock before submitting?

Soldiers did this and do it today.
Athletes do this.
Business people do this.
Parents do this.

They keep going despite the odds, it's an everyday accurace and we constantly hear about the success stories! But maybe these people who should have been gone years ago are the people who just couldn't get it over the line?

Or maybe they are like me? Just another bad farmer!

Thank you.

How many people actually say that to the farmer in person??

None if any. That's what's wrong with our society we like to point and judge and talk about people that are in a worse/different situation than ourselves. Rather than call to help and give support it is a lot easier to sit back and judge. The later is seen as the coolest option. THAT'S OUR SOCIETY!

Muckit · 20-07-2018 3:34pm

A little help is better than a terrible lot of pity.

Parishlad · 20-07-2018 3:57pm

Just signed a book of condolences for a colleague of ours. It's difficult to even put in words what a terribly sad thing it is for someone to take their own life.
On the outside it looked as if this girl had no worries and would have been the envy of many.
Depression is cruel disease. I don't know what can be done to help people who are suffering but I suppose all we can do is watch out for those around us and, as Muckit said above, reach out with a helping hand and maybe an open ear. And don't forget yourself either!

Timmaay · 20-07-2018 9:42pm

This chap is fairly controversial but raises some brilliant points. https://youtu.be/qmKtyeQ9Ikk

patsy_mccabe · 20-07-2018 10:43pm

Timmaay wrote: »

This chap is fairly controversial but raises some brilliant points. https://youtu.be/qmKtyeQ9Ikk

His other videos are well worth watching too.

Joe Daly · 21-07-2018 7:13pm

Parishlad wrote: »

Just signed a book of condolences for a colleague of ours. It's difficult to even put in words what a terribly sad thing it is for someone to take their own life.
On the outside it looked as if this girl had no worries and would have been the envy of many.
Depression is cruel disease. I don't know what can be done to help people who are suffering but I suppose all we can do is watch out for those around us and, as Muckit said above, reach out with a helping hand and maybe an open ear. And don't forget yourself either!

It is a cruel disease that no body understands its silent eats away at people take care out there it is one tough year people are getting scared talk you might think people are not listening .

Emme · 21-07-2018 8:50pm

Muckit wrote: »

A little help is better than a terrible lot of pity.

Absolutely. I have no time for people who say "I cannot help you but you can talk to me any time". I don't have time to talk to people like that - do they want me to entertain them with my problems so they can feel better about themselves?

farmersfriend · 21-07-2018 9:15pm

my mother always says, an ounce of help is better than a tonne of sympathy

DEPRESSION SUPPORT- Anonymous posting is possible, see note in post #1.

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