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Would the PIRA be talked about differently if they achieved a United Ireland?

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    #902
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Terrorism for you is violence you disagree with rather than your having a problem with violence per se.

    lol...that coming from you and yet you condone the throwing of bombs in to pubs and restaurants by one side?


    n.b, as stated by me before , "I condemn all loyalist terrorism and violence". I always condemned it just as much as all republican terrorism and violence.


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    #903
    Lurkio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 752 ✭✭✭Lurkio


    maryishere wrote: »
    lol...that coming from you and yet you condone the throwing of bombs in to pubs and restaurants by one side?

    Not sure what that had to do with what he was saying. Care to respond to my post?


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    #904
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    I did respond and certain peoples failure to condemn IRA/ ISIS bombings, in Bloody Friday Belfast, Le Mons, London, Paris or whatever, has everything to do with what he was saying.


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    #905
    Lurkio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 752 ✭✭✭Lurkio


    maryishere wrote: »
    I did respond and certain peoples failure to condemn IRA/ ISIS bombings, in Bloody Friday Belfast, Le Mons, London, Paris or whatever, has everything to do with what he was saying.
    No, you did not. Is this the part where you try and pretend you don't know what post I'm referring to, as if somehow I'll drop the subject?

    Just type out "I condemn all loyalist terrorism and violence" and no more questions will be levelled by me on the subject.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99806807&postcount=901


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    #906
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    Lurkio wrote: »
    No, you did not. Is this the part where you try and pretend you don't know what post I'm referring to, as if somehow I'll drop the subject?

    Just type out "I condemn all loyalist terrorism and violence" and no more questions will be levelled by me on the subject.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99806807&postcount=901
    lol. I did in post no 902 you blind bat, and in a previous post too.


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    #907
    Lurkio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 752 ✭✭✭Lurkio


    maryishere wrote: »
    lol. I did in post no 902 you blind bat, and in a previous post too.

    Your subtle ninja edit has evaded me. You sir, are the clever one.


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    #908
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    maryishere wrote: »
    Incorrect as stated before many times. It is the IRA fanboys on this thread who condone the throwing of bombs in to pubs and restaurants by one side but condemn such actions by the other side. I always condemned all terrorism.
    n.b and as stated before I condemn collusion on all sides.

    Out of curiosity did you lose someone to the IRA?


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    #909
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    maryishere wrote: »
    lol. I did in post no 902 you blind bat, and in a previous post too.

    Bats aren't blind.


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    #910
    Lurkio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 752 ✭✭✭Lurkio


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Bats aren't blind.

    True. Can't type for shite though.


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    #911
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    maryishere wrote: »
    lol. I did in post no 902 you blind bat, and in a previous post too.

    So you condemn loyalist terrorism and choose to demonise those who stand up to it and protect their communities


    How is that? :confused:


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    #912
    Lurkio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 752 ✭✭✭Lurkio


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    So you condemn loyalist terrorism and choose to demonise those who stand up to it and protect their communities


    How is that? :confused:

    I think their notion may be that you should call the RUC to protect you. Bit like making sure your tropical fish are protected from theft by sharks - sure what could possibly go wrong.


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    #913
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    So you condemn loyalist terrorism and choose to demonise those who stand up to it and protect their communities

    I do not demonise those who stood up to loyalist terrorism, or who stood up to republican terrorism either. The majority of people in both N. Ireland and the Republic stood up to both the republican and loyalist terrorists. It was the security forces on both sides of the border who were at the cutting edge of keeping law and order, and indeed some of our own security services paid the ultimate price too, such as Garda McCabe and others.


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    #914
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    maryishere wrote: »
    I do not demonise those who stood up to loyalist terrorism,.

    This deos not compute....are you effectively saying you support the pira??

    As the Irish army and guards done nothing to protect communities in the north
    The ruc and British army used shoot nationalists for looking for civil rights and when this became unpolitically acceptable colluded with loyalists to do so



    It's quite the u turn for you to support them....as your position is bizzare and on a foundation of sand otherwise :confused:


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    #915
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    lol. It does compute tomwaterford and no I do not and never did support the pira. What a warped view of N. Ireland and its people you have tomwaterford.


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    #916
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    maryishere wrote: »
    lol. It does compute tomwaterford and no I do not and never did support the pira. What a warped view of N. Ireland and its people you have tomwaterford.




    Now since the pira were the only people to stand up for nationalist communities and you condemn loyalist attacks.....

    how is it if you condemn loyalist attacks/violence and also condemn those who protect their communities again eat said attacks....how is that??


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    #917
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    Now since the pira were the only people to stand up for nationalist communities .....
    lol. Did they not mention the INLA in the issue of an Phoblocht you read? lol



    tomwaterford wrote: »
    how is it if you condemn loyalist attacks/violence and also condemn those who protect their communities again eat said attacks....how is that??
    I do not condemn those who protected the community, and who stood up for law and order. I am sure the RUC (including Catholics like RUC Chief Constable Sir James Flanagan, Deputy Chief Constable Michael McAtamney; Assistant Chief Constable Cathal Ramsey; Chief Superintendent Frank Lagan, and Superintendents Kevin Benedict Sheehy and Brendan McGuigan) risked their lives protecting their communities.


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    #918
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    maryishere wrote: »
    lol. Did they not mention the INLA in the issue of an Phoblocht you read? lol





    I do not condemn those who protected the community, and who stood up for law and order. I am sure the RUC (including Catholics like RUC Chief Constable Sir James Flanagan, Deputy Chief Constable Michael McAtamney; Assistant Chief Constable Cathal Ramsey; Chief Superintendent Frank Lagan, and Superintendents Kevin Benedict Sheehy and Brendan McGuigan) risked their lives protecting their communities.

    You can be nationalist and republican and not Catholic :confused:

    Well this tread is about the pira...but if your a fan of the inla il let you away



    Riddle me this if the ruc were so protective of nationalists as you claim how is it that 3 years before the gfa they were involved in pulling nationalists off the streets by their hair to force through a orange order March??



    It's notable that you condemn both attacks on nationalists and also those who defended nationalist areas....quite the web of deceit you weaved there.....it's a ill taught out scenario you've talked yourself into :P


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    #919
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    Now since the pira were the only people to stand up for nationalist communities....

    The pira were not very good at that then were they, when they directly themselves caused the deaths of hundreds of Catholics and republicans ; and by continuing their "armed struggle" they ensured the deaths of hundreds more in tit for tat murders by loyalists / retalatory killings / call them what you want.

    Why if you you are a brainwashed Republican do you claim the "pira were the only people to stand up for nationalist communities" and you do not mention the INLA in your warped view?

    Do you not think that Catholics like RUC Chief Constable Sir James Flanagan, Deputy Chief Constable Michael McAtamney; Assistant Chief Constable Cathal Ramsey; Chief Superintendent Frank Lagan, and Superintendents Kevin Benedict Sheehy and Brendan McGuigan) stood up for all the decent law abiding people of N. Ireland? Yes or no?


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    #920
    Lurkio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 752 ✭✭✭Lurkio


    maryishere wrote: »
    I do not demonise those who stood up to loyalist terrorism, or who stood up to republican terrorism either. The majority of people in both N. Ireland and the Republic stood up to both the republican and loyalist terrorists. It was the security forces on both sides of the border who were at the cutting edge of keeping law and order, and indeed some of our own security services paid the ultimate price too, such as Garda McCabe and others.


    These would be same security forces up above who supplied the loyalists with their information and - for years - most of their weapons?


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    #921
    Lurkio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 752 ✭✭✭Lurkio


    maryishere wrote: »

    Do you not think that Catholics like RUC Chief Constable Sir James Flanagan, Deputy Chief Constable Michael McAtamney; Assistant Chief Constable Cathal Ramsey; Chief Superintendent Frank Lagan, and Superintendents Kevin Benedict Sheehy and Brendan McGuigan) stood up for all the decent law abiding people of N. Ireland? Yes or no?

    I've bolded the important fact there.


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    #922
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    maryishere wrote: »
    The pira were not very good at that then were they, when they directly themselves caused the deaths of hundreds of Catholics and republicans ; and by continuing their "armed struggle" they ensured the deaths of hundreds more in tit for tat murders by loyalists / retalatory killings / call them what you want.

    Why if you you are a brainwashed Republican do you claim the "pira were the only people to stand up for nationalist communities" and you do not mention the INLA in your warped view?

    Do you not think that Catholics like RUC Chief Constable Sir James Flanagan, Deputy Chief Constable Michael McAtamney; Assistant Chief Constable Cathal Ramsey; Chief Superintendent Frank Lagan, and Superintendents Kevin Benedict Sheehy and Brendan McGuigan) stood up for all the decent law abiding people of N. Ireland? Yes or no?

    I'm not brainwashed and count that as a personal insult tbh

    Are you honestly suggesting loyalist tit for tat killings of innocent nationalist as retaliation of killing uda/uvf members was acceptable???
    Loughlinbridge being one of there more infamous events

    Sick is what that is :mad:



    Do you wish to include the catholic head of the lvf in your list of notable British leaning Catholics??


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    #923
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    maryishere wrote: »
    It was the security forces [...] who were at the cutting edge of keeping law and order

    Pull the other one. You're fooling nobody.

    Here's one gang of degenerate murderers, bombers and colluders for you the readers of the threads to consider when they read 'security forces' and 'law and order' in the same sentence.

    John Oliver Weir - RUC.
    William "Billy" McCaughey- RUC.
    Billy Hanna - UDR.
    Robin "The Jackal" Jackson - UDR member and an alleged RUC Special Branch agent
    Robert McConnell - UVF and 2nd Battalion UDR corporal.
    Laurence McClure - UVF volunteer and RUC SPG
    James Mitchell - an RUC Reserve.
    Robert John "R.J". Kerr - UDA commander.
    Harris Boyle - UDR soldier and UVF volunteer.
    Wesley Somerville - UDR soldier and a UVF lieutenant.
    Gary Armstrong - RUC sergeant.
    Captain John Irwin - UDR intelligence officer
    Thomas Raymond Crozier - UDR, and UVF.
    James Roderick McDowell - UDR, and UVF
    John James Somerville - UDR
    Norman Greenlee - UDR soldier and UVF volunteer.
    Gordon Liggett - (UDA).
    William Ashton Wright - UDR soldier.
    Joey Lutton - UDR.
    Laurence Tate - UDR
    William Thomas Leonard - UDR
    Ian Mitchell - RUC
    David Wilson - RUC

    That's the tip of the iceberg. The so-called 'security forces' were a breeding ground for sectarian serial murderers and collusion with loyalist murder gangs was endemic. Rotten to the core.


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    #924
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    Lurkio wrote: »
    These would be same security forces up above who supplied the loyalists with their information and - for years - most of their weapons?

    No, the Gardai and Irish army did not provide the loyalists with info or arms. The Loyalist terrorists were poorly armed compared with Republican terrorists. It was the PIRA and other Republicans who killed Garda McCabe and other Gardai and Irish army personnel. Of the tens of thousands of security forces north and south, most did not collude.


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    #925
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    maryishere wrote: »
    Of the tens of thousands of security forces north and south, most did not collude.

    Just seemingly those at the top with access to the intelligence?

    As its accepted 80+% of loyalist intelligence orginated from the security services

    From these facts would you conclude that those who colluded did better career wise or were they taking orders from the British government to collide in the murder of Irish people?


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    #926
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    Just seemingly those at the top with access to the intelligence?
    Are you referring to Haughey and the arms trial? Or to the leak which led to the deaths of the 2 RUC detectives after their meeting with Gardai in Dundalk?
    tomwaterford wrote: »
    As its accepted 80+% of loyalist intelligence orginated from the security services
    The loyalists killed between one and two IRA/INLA members per year on average....so they had not much intelligence seemingly. That was much less than the casulties inflicted by the IRA/INLA in their "armed struggle".


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    #927
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    Now since the pira were the only people to stand up for nationalist communities and you condemn loyalist attacks.....

    Maybe you could explain how throwing a bomb in to a crowded pub in London, protecting the nationalist community?

    Whilst their intentions may have been noble, a great many of their actions were not.


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    #928
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Whilst their intentions may have been noble, a great many of their actions were not.
    This I can agree with


    It's long being said that they were targeting members of the British army off duty/home from Ireland (pretty sure some were killed in one of the bombings)

    This deos not make the actions anyway right/acceptable.....but it deos provide reasoning behind it


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    #929
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    maryishere wrote: »
    The loyalists killed between one and two IRA/INLA members per year on average....so they had not much intelligence seemingly. That was much less than the casulties inflicted by the IRA/INLA in their "armed struggle".

    I was referring to the access to British intelligence loyalists had....though I don't think haugheys aid to the pira cost him any votes ;)
    Or indeed Mary mcaleese attempts to join cost her any either




    You do raise a good point on how/why loyalists were so ineffective in killing paramilitaries and why the British supplied Intel and collusion to kill innocent Irish people....one I do believe the British should reply to :)


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    #930
    Sweetemotion
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Sweetemotion


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Maybe you could explain how throwing a bomb in to a crowded pub in London, protecting the nationalist community?

    Whilst their intentions may have been noble, a great many of their actions were not.

    Maybe you can explain these?

    Serving Queen and country.

    http://listverse.com/2014/02/04/10-evil-crimes-of-the-british-empire/


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    #931
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    maryishere wrote: »
    The loyalists killed between one and two IRA/INLA members per year on average....so they had not much intelligence seemingly. That was much less than the casulties inflicted by the IRA/INLA in their "armed struggle".

    I was referring to the access to British intelligence loyalists had....though I don't think haugheys aid to the pira cost him any votes ;)
    Or indeed Mary mcaleese attempts to join cost her any either




    You do raise a good point on how/why loyalists were so ineffective in killing paramilitaries and why the British supplied Intel and collusion to kill innocent Irish people....one I do believe the British should reply to :)


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