Would the PIRA be talked about differently if they achieved a United Ireland?

tomwaterford

maryishere wrote: »

He was elected and he was a politician. Like the MP's the PIRA murdered too. Sad you did not only not know about any of them but were adamant the PIRA did not murder politicians in the 3 "juristans".

He wasn't elected when murdered as you rather sillily suggested

(move goalposts all you want...it's boring pointing this out to you )


So we can conclude they didn't kill an elected politians in the south

Unless you regard those voted out as ekected...but that's a bit weird

maryishere

tomwaterford wrote: »

You literally have no idea the scale of collusion :eek:

As someone who did not even know the PIRA murdered politicians, its a bit bit of you to rant about the scale of collusion because you read it in your copy of an Phoblocht:D

davycc

maryishere wrote: »

I did answer it. See post 970 and 975.
I feel sorry for you.

thanks hun xxx took you long enough to back up your ould rant after being called out for it pages ago :rolleyes:

tomwaterford

maryishere wrote: »

As someone who did not even know the PIRA murdered politicians, its a bit bit of you to rant about the scale of collusion because you read it in your copy of an Phoblocht:D

I did know...it's notable you've now dropped the claim of killing elected politians in the south


Now...where are the figures wrong....I take your grin face as gloating on deaths of those killed by collusion btw

Junkyard Tom

LordSutch wrote: »

Big respect to the security forces (Bad apples excluded - obviously).

Bad apples? A big barrel of putrid cider. I very much doubt one person in the UDR/RUC was unaware of what was going on.

The UVF,UFF,UDA etc were on the other hand no better than the PIRA/INLA in my opinion.

In terms of deliberately seeking out and murdering innocent people the UVF/UFF/UDA made the PIRA look positively restrained. Even British Army experts attest to the above.

maryishere

tomwaterford wrote: »

I did know...it's notable you've now dropped the claim of killing elected politians in the south

Billy Fox was elected as a TD to the Dail. He was a Fine Gael politician. Or maybe you think, as some along the border do, the motivation of the attack was to scare protestants along the border? To encourage them to keep their heads down and their mouths shut and not to be involved in politics?

tomwaterford

maryishere wrote: »

Billy Fox was elected as a TD to the Dail. He was a Fine Gael politician. Or maybe you think, as some along the border do, the motivation of the attack was to scare protestants along the border? To encourage them to keep their heads down and their mouths shut and not to be involved in politics?

Yawn

Your copy and past rant....still doesn't make him an elected politians at time of murder


Unless in your world people who aren't reflected count as elected....how many tds would that give Ireland now

maryishere

davycc wrote: »

thanks hun xxx took you long enough to back up your ould rant after being called out for it pages ago :rolleyes:

I backed it up promptly but you were too blind to see, too ignorant to know the facts and too lazy to look it up yourself. I feel sorry for people so brainwashed they did not know the PIRA murdered politicians in N.I., the Republic and in Britain. Shame on you.

davycc

maryishere wrote: »

I backed it up promptly but you were too blind to see, too ignorant to know the facts and too lazy to look it up yourself. I feel sorry for people so brainwashed they did not know the PIRA murdered politicians in N.I., the Republic and in Britain. Shame on you.

lazy and ignorant is asking someone to google your many claims instead of providing an link when requested

brainwashed arlene doesnt do irony though :pac:

i should stop feeding you this close to midnight hun x x x:) shame on me is right:P

Tombi!

mod: the petty squabbling, trolling and name calling ends now
If you're not going to follow the rules, don't post.
Report the posts you think are breaking the rules but don't engage them, thanks

Arsemageddon

Mary is right, the Provos did kill politicians in the North, in Britain and in the Republic

Tory MP Ian Gow was killed by a car bomb in 1990 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Gow
Anthony Berry MP was killed in the Brighton bomb

Sitting Northern Irish MPs James Strong & Rev Robert Bradford were both killed in 1981, Strong's father had also been an MP, he was in his mid-80's when he was killed alongside his son. Edgar Graham (member of the short-lived Northern Irish Assembly 1982-86) was shot dead in 1983. John Taylor barely survived an assassination attempt. They're just the ones I can remember off hand, but ou can add to that list a fair few councillors and members of unionist and loyalist political parties.

Billy Fox had been a TD, but he was subsequently elected to the Seanad in 1973 on the Cutlure & Education panel, he wasn't nominated by the Taoiseach. Trying to suggest that his killing was somehow less significant because he was in the Seanad is just plain idiotic.

steddyeddy

marienbad wrote: »

Except one side had a mandate and the other did not .

Actually both sides had substantial support. Also the whole point of the conflict is whether the British had a mandate in northern Ireland.

maryishere

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually both sides had substantial support.

But the clear majority of the population did not vote for parties which supported the PIRA, INLA, UVF, etc.

marienbad

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually both sides had substantial support. Also the whole point of the conflict is whether the British had a mandate in northern Ireland.

It is not really a question of sides when it comes to a democratic mandate . There never was a mandate for a campaign of violence

LordSutch

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually both sides had substantial support. Also the whole point of the conflict is whether the British had a mandate in northern Ireland.

Depends what you mean by the British? and seeing as a majority of the population in NI were British, then I guess the British government at Westminster was responsible for sorting things out within the context of Northern Ireland being a UK region, within the United Kingdom, which is mostly populated by British people!

steddyeddy

marienbad wrote: »

It is not really a question of sides when it comes to a democratic mandate . There never was a mandate for a campaign of violence

Sinn Fein didn't get voted?

LordSutch

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sinn Fein didn't get voted?

During the troubles when the PIRA were at their worst (murdering people every other day) the SDLP were by far the main Nationalist political party Then, after the Provo's stopped killing people SF gained more of the Nationalist vote . . . .

Arsemageddon

LordSutch wrote: »

Depends what you mean by the British? and seeing as a majority of the population in NI were British, then I guess the British government at Westminster was responsible for sorting things out within the context of Northern Ireland being a UK region, within the United Kingdom, which is mostly populated by British people!

..........and they would also happen to be the people who made an utter fvcking balls of the place to begin with.

maryishere

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sinn Fein didn't get voted?

Not very much before / during the troubles.
For example, in 1959 elections it won 0 out of 12 seats.
In 1983 election, Sinn Fein only won 1 out of 17 seats ( Gerry Adams as far as I remember)
In 1987 election,Sinn Fein only won 1 out of 17 seats
In 1992 election, Sinn Fein won 0 out of 17 seats
In 1997 election, Sinn Fein only won 2 out of 18 seats.

Bet your copy of An Phoblocht did not tell ya that now, did it?

marienbad

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sinn Fein didn't get voted?

SDLP in the majority until the violence stopped , which tells a lot in itself .

Arsemageddon

maryishere wrote: »

Not very much before / during the troubles.
For example, in 1959 elections it won 0 out of 12 seats.
In 1983 election, Sinn Fein only won 1 out of 17 seats ( Gerry Adams as far as I remember)
In 1987 election,Sinn Fein only won 1 out of 17 seats
In 1992 election, Sinn Fein won 0 out of 17 seats
In 1997 election, Sinn Fein only won 2 out of 18 seats.

Bet your copy of An Phoblocht did not tell ya that now, did it?

SF abstained from elections during the Troubles until after Bobby Sands was elected MP in 1981.

maryishere

Arsemageddon wrote: »

SF abstained from elections during the Troubles until after Bobby Sands was elected MP in 1981.

And in the 83 election Sinn Fein only got one MP elected, out of 17 seats.
Same result in the elections of 1987. It only got one MP elected then too. The vast majority of the electorate despised Sinn Fein. In the 1992 election, Sinn Fein failed to get any MP's elected. Not surprising, considering most people could see it was hand in hand with the PIRA.

marienbad wrote: »

SDLP in the majority until the violence stopped , .

I assume you mean the majority of the nationalist vote. The Unionist parties were very much in the majority as regards MPs elected during the troubles. For example, in the March 1974 general election, Unionist parties won 11 of the 12 Westminster seats, with the SDLP winning 1 of the 12. I assume you knew that / that is what you meant.

A lot of young "shinners" do not know that, methinks, or what the PIRA got up to during the troubles, murdering MP's, civilians and such like.

The Golden Miller

maryishere wrote: »

And in the 83 election Sinn Fein only got one MP elected, out of 17 seats.
Same result in the elections of 1987. It only got one MP elected then too. The vast majority of the electorate despised Sinn Fein. In the 1992 election, Sinn Fein failed to get any MP's elected. Not surprising, considering most people could see it was hand in hand with the PIRA.




I assume you mean the majority of the nationalist vote. The Unionist parties were very much in the majority as regards MPs elected during the troubles. For example, in the March 1974 general election, Unionist parties won 11 of the 12 Westminster seats, with the SDLP winning 1 of the 12. I assume you knew that / that is what you meant.

A lot of young "shinners" do not know that, methinks, or what the PIRA got up to during the troubles, murdering MP's, civilians and such like.

Here we go again, with half truths and misrepresentations. The Catholic population was circa 630,000. At it's height, only around 160,000 nationalists were voting, meaning the majority boycotted the corrupt political process. Taking out those unable to vote, you still have circa 280,000 whose attitudes were hardened. So to try and claim SF had no support by giving random convenient figures is disingenuous in the extreme. Their support base refused to validate the statelet at the time and for many years afterwards. When SF ran, they took 40,000 off the SDLP straight away. So at least two-thirds of nationalists eligible to vote (over 310,000), indirectly supported the provisional republican movement by the time SF first ran. So what was that about "most people" in relation to nationalists?

The Golden Miller

LordSutch wrote: »

Poor chap, you have actually been brainwashed into believing that your beloved Provo's protected its communities by knee capping its own, and blowing hundreds of people to kingdom come!

The world over knows about the exploits of the Provo's, and its not a good image to be a supporter of said terrorist group, even if you think it is.

Most nationalists, I said MOST NATIONALISTS supported the SDLP in Northern Ireland during the Troubles. The SDLP strove for change in NI without the need to Bomb and murder, and for that they should always be congratulated . . . . .

The PIRA and their supporters were/are? a narrow minded blood thirsty mono cultural blimkered bunch of cavemen, intent on doing as much damage as they could, in order to break the link between Northern Unionism and GB.

What a stupid, flawed, hopeless and inept ideology it was.

Care to explain this claim, considering only 160,000 nationalists were voting, with 40,000 defecting to SF the minute they could?

Lt Dan

Deleted User wrote: »

In my humble opinion, all successful revolutionaries are romanticised, even here we romanticise several revolutions that all failed miserably. If they had succeeded, most of the questionable stuff would be glossed over with rose coloured paint, like what we seen happen with good old IRA.

What are your thoughts?

Your headline says Provisional IRA 1969-2006

Old IRA are a different group 1919- 1966 with a mote Northern and Northern Dominated group, Stickies taking up the unit after split with Provos


What revolution were PIRA involved in? People more tolerated them and feared them than anything else.Southerners despised them

BalcombeSt4

maryishere wrote: »

Not very much before / during the troubles.
For example, in 1959 elections it won 0 out of 12 seats.
In 1983 election, Sinn Fein only won 1 out of 17 seats ( Gerry Adams as far as I remember)
In 1987 election,Sinn Fein only won 1 out of 17 seats
In 1992 election, Sinn Fein won 0 out of 17 seats
In 1997 election, Sinn Fein only won 2 out of 18 seats.

Bet your copy of An Phoblocht did not tell ya that now, did it?

You forgot to mention that Sinn Fein didn't start contesting elections until 1981 and they didn't contest an election without their abstention policy gone until 1987, so to become the biggest opposition party within the space of about 15 years with very left-wing ideologies in still a very Catholic conservative dominated electorate they were battling for is a pretty huge achievment. And all of that when the British government was throwing all their weight behind the SDLP and giving them all the free propaganda they wanted while at the same time baninng Sinn Fein voices from being heard on the airwaves and while their members were being hunted by UVF & UDA death squads.

Things sound very different once you put them into a little thing called "context".

maryishere

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

baninng Sinn Fein voices from being heard on the airwaves and while their members were being hunted by UVF & UDA death squads.

The Republic of Ireland governments (of different colours) all banned Sinn Fein from the airwaves during that period too...why do you think that was? Do you hear ISIS spokesmen or dissident Republicans (Omagh bombers etc) allowed to give their propoganda on the RTE or BBC airwaves now?

As regards death squads targeting politicians, it was the IRA who killed MP's in N. Ireland and Britain.

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

You forgot to mention that Sinn Fein didn't start contesting elections until 1981 and they didn't contest an election without their abstention policy gone until 1987

Their abstention policy was Sinn Feins own choice. Is that really the best excuse you can come up with for Sinn Feins very small level of support during the "armed struggle" they supported? (As said before in N.I. In 1983 election, Sinn Fein only won 1 out of 17 seats. In 1987 election,Sinn Fein only won 1 out of 17 seats, In 1992 election, Sinn Fein won 0 out of 17 seats. In 1997 election, Sinn Fein only won 2 out of 18 seats). South of the border the vast majority of the electorate unsurprisingly rejected the strategy of those who "had an armalite in one hand and a ballot box in the other hand" during the troubles too.

BalcombeSt4

People should look at the history of the conflict. In late 1970 the IRA's Army Council madel an agreement with senior British Army officials that, in parts of West Belfast, the IRA would be responsible for policing and there would be no activity by the British Army or RUC. This was aimed at stopping persistent rioting in Ballymurphy.
The agreement worked very well for about the one month it lasted but although Westminster had committed troops to the North in 1971 political power stay lay with the Unionist morons who wanted an end to the peace in these areas so on the 3rd of February under pressure from Stormont the British Army began a series of raids in nationalist areas of West and North Belfast. This sparked clashes between residents and British soldiers, and between nationalists and loyalists. Eight soldiers and a number of civilians were wounded. The IRA saw the raids as a breach of the policing agreement, and violence continued for the next few nights and on the 6th an IRA Volunteer was killed by the British Army and in retaliation the IRA shot dead the first British soldier of the war and everything else just snowballed from there.

BalcombeSt4

maryishere wrote: »

The Republic of Ireland governments (of different colours) all banned Sinn Fein from the airwaves during that period too...why do you think that was? Do you hear ISIS spokesmen or dissident Republicans (Omagh bombers etc) allowed to give their propoganda on the RTE or BBC airwaves now?

As regards death squads targeting politicians, it was the IRA who killed MP's in N. Ireland and Britain.




Their abstention policy was Sinn Feins own choice. Is that really the best excuse you can come up with for Sinn Feins very small level of support during the "armed struggle" they supported? (As said before in N.I. In 1983 election, Sinn Fein only won 1 out of 17 seats. In 1987 election,Sinn Fein only won 1 out of 17 seats, In 1992 election, Sinn Fein won 0 out of 17 seats. In 1997 election, Sinn Fein only won 2 out of 18 seats). South of the border the vast majority of the electorate unsurprisingly rejected the strategy of those who "had an armalite in one hand and a ballot box in the other hand" during the troubles too.

More half truths, lies, hysterics and support for loyalist terrorism.

I'm not going to bother picking this apart, if anybody else asks though I'd be more than happy to.

maryishere

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

More half truths, lies, hysterics and support for loyalist terrorism.

Support for loyalist terrorism? lol I condemn it as much as Republican terrorism and always have. The UVF and the like were just as bad as the PIRA / INLA. Loyalist terrorists got very little support, were condemned by all the main parties and many ended up in jail or dead.