Would the PIRA be talked about differently if they achieved a United Ireland?

In my humble opinion, all successful revolutionaries are romanticised, even here we romanticise several revolutions that all failed miserably. If they had succeeded, most of the questionable stuff would be glossed over with rose coloured paint, like what we seen happen with good old IRA.

What are your thoughts?

Samaris

History is written by the winners.

Also

"Treason doth never prosper, what's the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it Treason." - John Harington

Atlantic Dawn

It was nostalgic to take out a few foreign soldiers occupying your country in 1916 but for some reason it wasn't acceptable in the 80's as the song goes to do the very same thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOV5WXISM24

LordSutch

Deleted User wrote: »

Would the PIRA be talked about differently if they achieved a United Ireland?

Would Hitler be takled about differently had the Nazi's won the war?

The_Valeyard

LordSutch wrote: »

Would Hitler be takled about differently had the Nazi's won the war?

Watch: Man in the High Castle

LordSutch

... in other words, if if if if.

But they didn't.

not yet

I believe when we have a united Ireland (and we will)... an Ireland that should never have been partitioned to begin with, all the struggles, of all brave Irishmen will be acknowledged..

Junkyard Tom

Deleted User wrote: »

If they had succeeded...

It remains to be seen in the longer term. As far as Republicans are concerned the Good Friday Agreement is little but a staging post on their aim of a United Ireland. Union/loyalists pretend the GFA is the end of the UI question but they know it isn't which is why they refuse to call SF's bluff on a border poll they'd comfortably win.

Why do union/loyalists refuse to win a border poll on a UI? Because they don't even want the idea of a UI to be alive in the public consciousness never mind having to debate it in favour of moaning about manhole covers, flegs, and not being allowed to march by the Ardoyne shops.

RayM

I suspect they'd be talked about slightly differently if Sinn Fein weren't currently posing an electoral threat to the establishment parties. The rhetoric from the political establishment nowadays reminds me of Unionists in the mid-90s.

uck51js9zml2yt

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Watch: Man in the High Castle

Excellent series !

Cathy.C

Deleted User wrote: »

Would the PIRA be talked about differently if they achieved a United Ireland?

With regards to how Irish people speak about them?

No, I don't think so, as nobody can ever justify putting a bomb in a crowded pub full of young people and blowing it, and them, to smithereens.

Cathy.C

Cathy.C wrote: »

With regards to how Irish people speak about them?

No, I don't think so, as nobody can ever justify putting a bomb in a crowded pub full of young people and blowing it, and them, to smithereens.

The "Old" IRA committed some despicable atrocities too, yet they're spoken of with great pride and honour.

fatknacker

No, they have no vision for a nation most of us want to be a part of. They're seen as a bunch of skangery thugs who are incapable of doing anything useful for a united Ireland, they resort to violence and fear at any chance. At best, they exist as a resistance as a result of the troubles in North but for the most part, have little interest in creating a peaceful and inclusive country that we could all stand behind.

LordSutch

Deleted User wrote: »

The "Old" IRA committed some despicable atrocities too, yet they're spoken of with great pride and honour.

Great pride & honour you say; Not by my wifes family, who escaped/fled Cork to escape their clutches, but only after their house was torched...

Sheep Lover

LordSutch wrote: »

Great pride & honour you say; Not by my wifes family, who escaped/fled Cork to escape their clutches, but only after their house was torched...

Is that story like the "my grandad was in the GPO in 1916" but for unionists?

LordSutch

Sheep Lover wrote: »

Is that story like the "my grandad was in the GPO in 1916" but for unionists?

No idea.

I'm old school.

I like the idea of Republicanism...but once you bomb women and children to leave their parents collect their entrails off nearby trees and streets, I'm out.

realdanbreen

RayM wrote: »

I suspect they'd be talked about slightly differently if Sinn Fein weren't currently posing an electoral threat to the establishment parties. The rhetoric from the political establishment nowadays reminds me of Unionists in the mid-90s.

The 'establishment ' parties as you call them realise now after the last election that SF have peaked. The fact that they hadn't the ability to make more gains in the climate of austerity means their policies are seen as being just populoust pie in the sky.

Cathy.C

Deleted User wrote: »

The "Old" IRA committed some despicable atrocities too, yet they're spoken of with great pride and honour.

Innocent people died at the hands of the 'old IRA' but they don't compae to the likes of the PIRA. They may have had common goals but that is pretty much were the similarities began and ended. The PIRA indiscriminately targeted civilians with the likes of the Birmingham bombings (1974), the Enniskillen bombing (1987), the Warrington Bomb Attacks (1993) and the Omagh bombing (1998).

The 'old IRA' NEVER purposefully targeted civilians to anywhere near the same objectionable degree that the PIRA did. Again, yes, innocent life was lost at times, on both sides, but killing and maiming innocent people was never a goal of the old IRA as it quite clearly was for the PIRA, and of course at times, the British Government.

tomwaterford

Cathy.C wrote: »

Innocent people died at the hands of the 'old IRA' but they don't compae to the likes of the PIRA. They may have had common goals but that is pretty much were the similarities began and ended. The PIRA indiscriminately targeted civilians with the likes of the Birmingham bombings (1974), the Enniskillen bombing (1987), the Warrington Bomb Attacks (1993) and the Omagh bombing (1998).

The 'old IRA' NEVER purposefully targeted civilians to anywhere near the same objectionable degree that the PIRA did. Again, yes, innocent life was lost at times, on both sides, but killing and maiming innocent people was never a goal of the old IRA as it quite clearly was for the PIRA, and of course at times, the British Government.

Quite why you include the omagh bombing in a thread about the PIRA suggests you don't know what your talking about

Filmer Paradise

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm old school.

I like the idea of Republicanism...but once you bomb women and children to leave their parents collect their entrails off nearby trees and streets, I'm out.

I'd be of the same opinion. Also I'd add that most of the puppet-masters of the operation were evil scum.

Cathy.C

tomwaterford wrote: »

Quite why you include the omagh bombing in a thread about the PIRA suggests you don't know what your talking about

Oh give me a break. I see the point scoring has started early. It was quite obvious what my point was, and is. Yes, the RIRA carried out Omagh, but they were after all dissident members of the PIRA, were they not, and so lets not pretend there is all that much of difference between the two.

The whole point of the thread is to ask has the IRA of old being romanticized in comparison to the so called equivalent republican groups of recent times and if their goals had been archived, would they be seen in the same light as they are now. My response is 'No, they wouldn't' based on the fact that these newer bastardized versions of the old IRA, be that the PIRA or the RIRA, are not feet to wipe their boots considering how they showed total and utter disregard for not just innocent life, but innocent life quite often on a large scale.

Atlantic Dawn

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm old school.

I like the idea of Republicanism...but once you bomb women and children to leave their parents collect their entrails off nearby trees and streets, I'm out.

But what if the occupying force bomb women and children to leave their parents collect their entrails off nearby trees and streets initially? Probably with carpet bombing or cruise missiles but same idea?

tomwaterford

Cathy.C wrote: »

Oh give me a break. I see the point scoring has started early. It was quite obvious what my point was, and is. Yes, the RIRA carried out Omagh, but they were after all dissident members of the PIRA, were they not, and so lets not pretend there is all that much of difference between the two.

The whole point of the thread is to ask has the IRA of old being romanticized in comparison to the so called equivalent today and if their goals had been archived, would they be seen in the same light. My response is no based on the fact that these newer bastardized versions of the old IRA, be that the PIRA or the RIRA, are not feet to wipe their boots considering how they showed total and utter disregard for not just innocent life, but innocent life quite often on a large scale.

And let's not forget....more innocents died in the 2 year war of indeoendane vs a 30 odd year troubles?



If anything the killing and violence was on a different scale and intensity during the war of independance and was getting so bitter towards the end that it was on the brink of a simultaneous civil war....

mzungu

Even if they had, would it stop Gerry from spouting tripe on Twitter?

Phoebas

mzungu wrote: »

Even if they had, would it stop Gerry from spouting tripe on Twitter?

If Gerry ever gets into power:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C_Lo4fOJqU

KingBrian2

The PIRA unlike the old IRB are a criminal outfit. Yes we do romanticize about the deeds of those Republicans that does not mean with condone those acts. The IRB of that era were defending the rights of Irish people to self rule and self defense. Today's lot are a sectarian drug cartel that invoke the Easter Rebellion for their own ends. It is not about Irish claims to become an independent republic rather it is a warning sign to gvt, other dissidents and the community at large to stay clear from our territory.

Filmer Paradise

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The PIRA unlike the old IRB are a criminal outfit. Yes we do romanticize about the deeds of those Republicans that does not mean with condone those acts. The IRB of that era were defending the rights of Irish people to self rule and self defense. Today's lot are a sectarian drug cartel that invoke the Easter Rebellion for their own ends. It is not about Irish claims to become an independent republic rather it is a warning sign to gvt, other dissidents and the community at large to stay clear from our territory.

I agree. The leadership of PIRA had a ready made population of uneducated, disaffected & gullible young people to manipulate.

And boy, did they make a bad situation worse! They did it with relish. And for what? Eh?

PURE EVIL SCUM.

Fleawuss

Reddit. Reddit.

Atlantic Dawn

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The PIRA unlike the old IRB are a criminal outfit. Yes we do romanticize about the deeds of those Republicans that does not mean with condone those acts. The IRB of that era were defending the rights of Irish people to self rule and self defense. Today's lot are a sectarian drug cartel that invoke the Easter Rebellion for their own ends. It is not about Irish claims to become an independent republic rather it is a warning sign to gvt, other dissidents and the community at large to stay clear from our territory.

How would an organised people oppose an occupying superpower on a officially approved finanancial fair play ground, would they have to apply for a Lottery grant to purchase their weaponry to make it fair and ok?

IrishTrajan

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm old school.

I like the idea of Republicanism...but once you bomb women and children to leave their parents collect their entrails off nearby trees and streets, I'm out.

You'd have preferred if they'd killed the parents too?