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'Travellers have a right to a home that is culturally appropriate'

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  • 23-11-2017 11:50am
    #1
    MilesMorales1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭


    IT’S HARD TO visit children living on a dump. But that’s what I have to do when I visit friends of mine at Carrowbrowne site, just outside Galway City.
    I have to remind myself that I’m not in some slum in Africa or Asia – places that we sometimes see on the telly and think it’s awful that people have to live like that. I have to remind myself that this is Ireland – one of the world’s wealthiest countries (we were ranked 7th globally this year by Global Finance Magazine).
    This is Galway, where I live. This is 2017 – more than 20 years after the Traveller Taskforce report was published with all its wonderful and hope-filled recommendations

    http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/carrowbrowne-of-all-the-land-the-council-had-they-gave-us-the-place-beside-the-dump-3710147-Nov2017/


    Not really sure what I think about that. How do you define whats culturally appropriate? On the other hand its not on that their sites are so awful, who's responsible for that though?


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    #2
    Dr Crayfish
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    They seem to like to live in their own sh*t. Just drive past any halting site. I couldn't care less about them tbh.


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    #3
    mloc123
    Registered Users Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭mloc123


    MilesMorales1 wrote: »
    http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/carrowbrowne-of-all-the-land-the-council-had-they-gave-us-the-place-beside-the-dump-3710147-Nov2017/


    Not really sure what I think about that. How do you define whats culturally appropriate? On the other hand its not on that their sites are so awful, who's responsible for that though?

    When the sites were built they were finished to a decent level.

    If you buy a house and after 5-10 years it is run down, dirty, surrounded by waste etc.. who is to blame? The owner of the house right? So why would this be any different?


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    #4
    PeterParker957
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    mloc123 wrote: »
    When the sites were built they were finished to a decent level.

    If you buy a house and after 5-10 years it is run down, dirty, surrounded by waste etc.. who is to blame? The owner of the house right? So why would this be any different?

    "But but we're a protected ethnic minority...."

    :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:


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    #5
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Rights come with responsibilities.


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    #6
    Borderfox
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,257 Mod ✭✭✭✭Borderfox


    'Travellers have a right to a home that is culturally appropriate'

    They also have the right to pay for it too, same as the rest of us


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    #7
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Rights come with responsibilities.

    Certain people only like the start of that sentence and ignore the end.


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    #8
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    8 Bedroom House
    Stables
    Scrapyard
    Metal Smelting Facilities
    Slave Accommodation
    Green Space for Bare Knuckle Boxing
    Garages for Jeeps & Touring Caravans


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    #9
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,856 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    When people are transient, they have no pride in an area and they don't seem to care about things like cleaning up after themselves.

    That's for the council or some other mug to clean up.


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    #10
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    I used to live near a site in Co. Dublin. Lovely wee houses were built there. It wasn't long before the pipes were ripped out and sold, along with any lead on the roofs, while the people the houses had been built for continued to live in caravans next to the house. You can't help some people.


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    #11
    Dr Crayfish
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    What's the point in even talking about these people any more. The Government and Garda are scared sh*tless of them. Let's just keep giving them even more money and facilities and allow them to continue living as outlaws. Life is too short to think about these things, things that will never change.


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    #12
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    There is no right to a home that is culturally appropriate. That's fantasy nonsense.

    I'll defend the right of everyone to a home - that is, a roof over your head with heat, light & water.

    But a home that conforms to your cultural traditions? That's your problem, not society's.


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    #13
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    There's some seriously nice, brand new vehicles in that site whenever I drive by. I'd never be able to afford them of course.

    Like a slum in Africa? Give me a break.


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    #14
    rebel456
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭rebel456


    Right up to the highest levels of local and national government, those with a duty to recognise, protect and promote our human rights have failed to honour Travellers’ basic right to a home that is culturally appropriate.

    Has the thought ever occurred to Traveller communities to band together and buy a site? I understand there are higher levels of poverty among travellers but since most seem to stay in the same halting site raising their kids... why not chip in to where you live. If they want to move off then so be it. I move too, I give up my lease or sell my house. They can sell their share or plot.

    While it is also abhorrent to see dead rodents in a shed, when my local council estate has litter on the green or dead animals on the footpath one of the locals clears it away, it's their estate after all.


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    #15
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MilesMorales1 wrote: »
    On the other hand its not on that their sites are so awful, who's responsible for that though?

    I know the good people of AH have decided that, unlike other ethnic groups, it's in the DNA of travellers to be bad so they deserve the squalor. However those who do not ascribe to theories that would have been laughed at as being outdated in Victorian times will point to the decision that was already made in that regard by the Council of Europe.

    However, while there is an obligation to provide accommodation, and responsibility rests with us...it does not extend to providing one that is "culturally appropriate".


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    #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mloc123 wrote: »
    When the sites were built they were finished to a decent level...

    Again, no they weren't.

    And again, that was decided by the Council of Europe, who described some of the 50 or so sites (out of the 1,000 that was to be built) as being in breach of basic human rights. The arguments are over. The decision was made. In the fraction of housing that was made available (is it 5% of the total needed) they found open sewers.


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    #17
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I know the good people of AH have decided that, unlike other ethnic groups, it's in the DNA of travellers to be bad so they deserve the squalor.

    Of course they don't deserve squalor. No one deserves squalor, but when they manufacture the squalor themselves what can you do? It's not the settled community going to halting sites and throwing shíte around the place.


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    #18
    Dr Crayfish
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Again, no they weren't.

    And again, that was decided by the Council of Europe, who described some of the 50 or so sites (out of the 1,000 that was to be built) as being in breach of basic human rights. The arguments are over. The decision was made. In the fraction of housing that was made available (is it 5% of the total needed) they found open sewers.

    Why are they getting any type of accommodation for free anyway?


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    #19
    MilesMorales1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭MilesMorales1


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I know the good people of AH have decided that, unlike other ethnic groups, it's in the DNA of travellers to be bad so they deserve the squalor. However those who do not ascribe to theories that would have been laughed at as being outdated in Victorian times will point to the decision that was already made in that regard by the Council of Europe.

    However, while there is an obligation to provide accommodation, and responsibility rests with us...it does not extend to providing one that is "culturally appropriate".

    I was unaware of that. So they're not entitled to it then.


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    #20
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,733 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Absolute nonsense... if the place looks like a dirty slum that's down to the occupants. Given all this stuff is provided to them by the taxpayer anyway, they have some neck complaining after they've destroyed the place.

    Living in a caravan is a lifestyle choice - this "culture" stuff is nonsense. They're more than welcome/able to buy a house themselves if they want seeing as there appears to be no shortage of high-end new vehicles (ie: money) in most sites.

    I'm really tired of this notion that the majority of society must bend over backwards to accommodate the whims of minorities making claims they have no entitlement to be making - see also refugees economic migrants


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    #21
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    Dr Crayfish wrote: »
    Why are they getting any type of accommodation for free anyway?

    In fairness....it's not unreasonable to give em a place to park vs on the side of busy roads and young kids with em?


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    #22
    Dr Crayfish
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    In fairness....it's not unreasonable to give em a place to park vs on the side of busy roads and young kids with em?

    As long as it's in England :D


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    #23
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,155 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Rights come with responsibilities.

    No they don't. That's the point of a right, you have it anyway.


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    #24
    arctictree
    Registered Users Posts: 4,291 ✭✭✭arctictree


    rebel456 wrote: »
    Has the thought ever occurred to Traveller communities to band together and buy a site?

    Happened near us. A site with an agri shed came up for sale beside the motorway. Owner had tried for years to get planning for a house but was constantly refused by the planners. Travellers then bought it for dirt cheap (circa 25K) and moved a few mobile homes into it. They don't give a **** about planning. Its actually kept very well.


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    #25
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    And what about the eco migrants ?

    We need to build a Fota Island for each one in case they miss the tigers n elephants


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    #26
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Grayson wrote: »
    No they don't. That's the point of a right, you have it anyway.

    Not all rights are absolute.


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    #27
    Sky King
    Registered Users Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Sky King


    I guess it's important to distinguish between a right and an entitlement.

    I think we all have a right to a culturally appropriate home.

    Most people expect to have to attain this for themselves though.


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    #28
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,277 ✭✭✭Your Face


    What does culturally appropriate mean?

    My ancestry apparently incorporates minor European nobility.

    Therefore, I think the state should built me a replica of the Royal Palace of Caserta.

    Its only fair.


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    #29
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,856 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Your Face wrote: »
    What does culturally appropriate mean?

    Stables, for cultural household pets?


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    #30
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,928 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    kylith wrote: »
    Of course they don't deserve squalor. No one deserves squalor, but when they manufacture the squalor themselves what can you do? It's not the settled community going to halting sites and throwing sh around the place.

    It often is the settled community dumping crap at sites by the way

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #31
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,928 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    In fairness....it's not unreasonable to give em a place to park vs on the side of busy roads and young kids with em?

    Of course it is. That is putting the young children at risk of being killed by cars.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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