'Travellers have a right to a home that is culturally appropriate'

Omackeral

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

It often is the settled community dumping crap at sites by the way

Someone actually thanked this absolute lie of a post. Clicked to find out.. A parody at this stage.

tabby aspreme

nullzero wrote: »

It is actually quite notable how poorly Traveller men treat Traveller women, the use of violence against women and children in the Traveller community is something that is casually papered over.
In fact violence is a way of life for Travellers in general, enacting violent fueds between families in public places is commonplace. I recall a young girl in tallaght being left in a wheelchair over a decade ago after being hit by a car driven by a Traveller who was trying to knock down another Traveller he was in the middle of a fued with as a violent brawl was going on in broad daylight.
I once witnessed Travellers attack a group of black youths with hammers and saws simply because they were "monkeys" and happened to walk past their Halting site. In fact the racism I've witnessed from Travellers has left me speechless, if you are black I would advise you to steer clear of these racist thugs.
Ireland has a very shady history in terms of sexual abuse, but as we're learning these days so does the human race as a whole, we simply had a head start in finding out about our issues before most countries.

When there is a tradition of "grabbing" (the girl being overpowered) as an initial sign of affection in a traveller relationship, the outcome is never going to be great for the girl

Irish Guitarist

The traveller I'm talking about also beat up a man who told him to stop throwing his rubbish into the river so badly he almost lost his life. He got away with that scot free.

It's a joke to say travellers have no rights. They're granted more rights than their victims.

VinLieger

Omackeral wrote: »

Someone actually thanked this absolute lie of a post. Clicked to find out.. A parody at this stage.

Ahh who else would you expect to do it

Omackeral

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

You dont actually know what you are talking about at all and you are making crap up.

This coming from the person who posted this earlier;

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

It often is the settled community dumping crap at sites by the way

As I've said on other threads, I could easily call myself a traveller, particularly if people who are living in the same house their great-grandparents lived in are travellers then I'm more of a traveller.

The funny thing is that from what my family says they were far more discriminated against back in the day when they weren't as likely to be into serious crime. They'd be caned for everything in school, gardai would beat them while leaving others, they'd be spat on, ignored (basically shunned) in the streets.

Now though they basically have no time for the ones who still call themselves "travellers". Sometimes they'll bitterly say "Sure they're probably right". When someone who put up with that crap growing up is on the state pension after working their whole lives, turning their hand to anything and has feck all sees that if they'd gone the other way and would have plenty of nice things who can blame them for wondering?

Irish Guitarist

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

It's a joke to say travellers have no rights. They're granted more rights than their victims.

No they are not "granted" more rights than their victims. No more than any other criminal. In fact, I don't know the person accused or convicted of a crime who has "more" rights than other people.

But rather than using the empty line again and again, or keep up the innuendo that unlike the rest of society travellers have a tendency towards sexual assault - could you specify the exact rights that you think travellers have in criminal law that other Irish people do not have?

nullzero

nullzero wrote: »

It is actually quite notable how poorly Traveller men treat Traveller women, the use of violence against women and children in the Traveller community is something that is casually papered over...

You are correct. I think Pavee Point have expressed concern about domestic violence in the groups they represent. However, I think it would be narrow minded to say "it is because they are travellers", there are higher rates of domestic violence amongst black people, amongst Native Americans etc. There are issues like socio economic factors, exposure to historical abuse, access to services and the Gardaí etc.

sbsquarepants

end of the road wrote: »

plannet earth, where they won't be getting a free compound, with high walls and multiple homes where only their family members can live in..

What the hell are you waffling about. I grew up in tallaght - there are several of these non existent compounds within walking distance of my house. Filth ridden cess pits the lot of them, you can hardly see the landcruisers and q7's for the black smoke billowing off the copper cables some days though - so it's easy to see how you might have missed them.

end of the road wrote: »

the european council + all the relevant laws say such money for travelers is deserved.

Well, I say it isn't!

SnakePlissken

end of the road wrote: »

VinLieger wrote: »

The travelers make the offer, get paid for it AND dump it on their own halting sites but its entirely someone else's fault, gotta love that apologist garbage logic

it's not "apologist garbage logic"
it's accurate fact, on the basis that those using illegal contractors are not stupid and know that it's likely the rubbish will be dumped god knows where.

So what you're effectively saying is that we must assume any traveller offering a waste disposal service is in fact an illegal operator? Or should we ask them for some paperwork which definitely, most certainly cannot be faked? But no, when an illegal operator fly-tips it must be the fault of the settled person who trusted them to do the work.

I'll give you something, you're consistently the most inconsistent poster in every thread you Grace with your presence.

Alun

SnakePlissken wrote: »

So what you're effectively saying is that we must assume any traveller offering a waste disposal service is in fact an illegal operator? Or should we ask them for some paperwork which definitely, most certainly cannot be faked?

You shouldn't automatically assume that anybody offering a waste disposal service is operating legally, not only travellers. As for the waste permit being faked, you can check any permit shown to you on the EPA's website to see if it's genuine.

http://www.epa.ie/terminalfour/waste/index.jsp?disclaimer=yes&Submit=Continue

Akrasia

end of the road wrote: »

it's not "apologist garbage logic"
it's accurate fact, on the basis that those using illegal contractors are not stupid and know that it's likely the rubbish will be dumped god knows where.

People know about domestic refuse services that need to be licensed, but there are a lot of 'skip hire' services that people assume are legitimate because they're advertised in papers or online.

They might claim to be fully licensed and all above board, and there isn't really any way for the public to know for sure.

There are scummy 'settled people' who will knowingly use the services of someone they know is dumping illegally, and there are also ordinary people who need their shed cleared out who think they are hiring someone legitimate but their stuff ends up down a lane or in a woodland

SnakePlissken

Alun wrote: »

SnakePlissken wrote: »

So what you're effectively saying is that we must assume any traveller offering a waste disposal service is in fact an illegal operator? Or should we ask them for some paperwork which definitely, most certainly cannot be faked?

You shouldn't automatically assume that anybody offering a waste disposal service is operating legally, not only travellers. As for the waste permit being faked, you can check any permit shown to you on the EPA's website to see if it's genuine.

http://www.epa.ie/terminalfour/waste/index.jsp?disclaimer=yes&Submit=Continue

And 70 year old mary down the street who doesn't know her google from her elbow is supposed to check a contractor is registered how?

It's no mystery as to why it's the old and vulnerable these crowds target, but no, they're to blame when a contractor disposes of their waste down some laneway.

Akrasia

Deleted User wrote: »

You are correct. I think Pavee Point have expressed concern about domestic violence in the groups they represent. However, I think it would be narrow minded to say "it is because they are travellers", there are higher rates of domestic violence amongst black people, amongst Native Americans etc. There are issues like socio economic factors, exposure to historical abuse, access to services and the Gardatc.

There are cultural issues that impact domestic violence

When children are married off to other children and expected to spend the rest of their lives pumping out children of their own, nobody should be surprised that there will be domestic abuse and child abuse.

Hoboo

Deleted User wrote: »

No they are not "granted" more rights than their victims. No more than any other criminal. In fact, I don't know the person accused or convicted of a crime who has "more" rights than other people.

But rather than using the empty line again and again, or keep up the innuendo that unlike the rest of society travellers have a tendency towards sexual assault - could you specify the exact rights that you think travellers have in criminal law that other Irish people do not have?

You're correct, they're not granted more rights, just different rights. Gardai don't enforce the law on the travelling community, for one reason or the other, in the same was as the 'settled' community.

Re: sexual assault. Is 'grabbing' not a traveller custom? If a settled member of society did that to any girl they'd be arrested for sexual assault.

So sexual assault and being afforded different rights, all wrapped up in a 'custom'.

whisky_galore

Akrasia wrote: »

There are cultural issues that impact domestic violence

When children are married off to other children and expected to spend the rest of their lives pumping out children of their own, nobody should be surprised that there will be domestic abuse and child abuse.

It's like their attitudes are like those of the general population a century (or more) ago, preserved in aspic. Faction fighting... early, arranged marriages...ultra devout Catholicism...intolerance of outsiders or those considered 'deviant', god help you if you are a gay traveller.

Captain Obvious

Omackeral wrote: »

This coming from the person who posted this earlier;

i thought he was joking.

Hoboo

Hoboo wrote: »

Re: sexual assault. Is 'grabbing' not a traveller custom? If a settled member of society did that to any girl they'd be arrested for sexual assault.

Is it?

I haven't heard of it as a custom, much less that it is a defence in law to sexual assault.

Have you examples of when it was successfully pleaded, so we can see the extent of this claim that they have more rights in sexual assault. Thanks.

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

When children are married off to other children...

I suspect while the age profile of those getting married may be younger, I think to characterise it as "children marrying children" is wrong. Presumably they cannot marry any younger than the laws of this country provide, or are you saying they marry in another way? What age do you say is the average for their marriages?

PeterParker957

Deleted User wrote: »

Hoboo wrote: »

Re: sexual assault. Is 'grabbing' not a traveller custom? If a settled member of society did that to any girl they'd be arrested for sexual assault.

Is it?

I haven't heard of it as a custom.

Not buying it. Everyone's heard of it.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I suspect while the age profile of those getting married may be younger, I think to characterise it as "children marrying children" is wrong. Presumably they cannot marry any younger than the laws of this country provide, or are you saying they marry in another way? What age do you say is the average for their marriages?

That's a lot of questions. It's amazing that you don't know the answer to any of them.

PeterParker957

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Not buying it. Everyone's heard of it.

:D

I just Googled it. Pretty much all the entries on the first page relate to it appearing on...My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding...:D:D

Are we really trading at that level of sources? Could you point to something a little more profound than tv for morons? What next, an analysis of society based on Gogglebox and First Date?

Omackeral

Ask people. Most people will have heard of it.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

That's a lot of questions. It's amazing that you don't know the answer to any of them.

You may find it hard to cope with 2 or 3 questions, but don't stress, they weren't directed to you!

The poster characterised traveller society as involving children marrying children. I suspect that's another one from the Big Fat Gypsy Wedding school of analysis, so I asked him a few straightforward questions.

PeterParker957

Deleted User wrote: »

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Not buying it. Everyone's heard of it.

:D

I just Googled it. Pretty much all the entries on the first page relate to it appearing on...My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding...:D:D

Are we really trading at that level of sources? Could you point to something a little more profound than tv for morons? What next, an analysis of society based on Gogglebox and First Date?

You needed to Google it but you've been putting everyone "right" on traveller etiquette for two days?

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

Ask people. Most people will have heard of it.

Oh I bet they have now. That was very a popular show.

Surely one poster can step up and point to one case where it was raised as a defence, if it's very common, very well known etc. Just one case. That's all.

CosmicJay

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it?

I haven't heard of it as a custom,

This answer would strongly suggest you have no idea what your are on about.

It's pretty much a constant with traveller families.

CosmicJay

CosmicJay wrote: »

This answer would strongly suggest you have no idea what your are on about.

It's pretty much a constant with traveller families.

Yerra utter nonsense!

But hilarious to see how embedded a complete myth can become as a result of a tv show.

Google it yourself, you'll see travellers saying they have never heard of it. Sure maybe you'd know more than them about the "constants" in their society...:D

jmayo

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

8 Bedroom House
Stables
Scrapyard
Metal Smelting Facilities
Slave Accommodation
Green Space for Bare Knuckle Boxing
Garages for Jeeps & Touring Caravans

Ehh you forgot somewhere to chain the dogs.

The journal.ie, bringing you shyte since 2010 or whenever.

Deleted User wrote: »

I know the good people of AH have decided that, unlike other ethnic groups, it's in the DNA of travellers to be bad so they deserve the squalor. However those who do not ascribe to theories that would have been laughed at as being outdated in Victorian times will point to the decision that was already made in that regard by the Council of Europe.

However, while there is an obligation to provide accommodation, and responsibility rests with us...it does not extend to providing one that is "culturally appropriate".

Ehh Conor, any of your clients involved in operation Tarmac

Omackeral

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh I bet they have now. That was very a popular show.

I've never seen the show. I have heard of grabbing.