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'Travellers have a right to a home that is culturally appropriate'

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    #122
    Will I Am Not
    Registered Users Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭Will I Am Not


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    I assume those posters defending Travellers would have absolutely no qualms about a Halting Site being built right next door to where they live?

    I doubt they would notice. Too busy cooking and cleaning for all the refugees they have taken in.


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    #123
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    I assume those posters defending Travellers would have absolutely no qualms about a Halting Site being built right next door to where they live?

    That's an old one that has no basis in logic. When did "the ideal neighbour" become the yardstick for applying human rights?

    I wouldn't want to live in Pretoria or on a Reservation, all that filth and squalor...but I wouldn't measure the human rights that should be doled out to those who do on that basis.


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    #124
    fmpisces
    Registered Users Posts: 888 ✭✭✭fmpisces


    MilesMorales1 wrote: »
    http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/carrowbrowne-of-all-the-land-the-council-had-they-gave-us-the-place-beside-the-dump-3710147-Nov2017/


    Not really sure what I think about that. How do you define whats culturally appropriate? On the other hand its not on that their sites are so awful, who's responsible for that though?

    And then you get the other side of it where a house is allocated to a traveller family and they abuse it and the rules of their tenancy. I know all to well because the council moved in such a family beside me three years ago. Their youngest child, about 5 years old I'd say, pees and poops outside on the path/road at will. Rubbish is not disposed of the way it's meant to be. Then they go and move in relatives staying in a caravan in their driveway. :mad:


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    #125
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That's an old one that has no basis in logic. When did "the ideal neighbour" become the yardstick for applying human rights?

    I wouldn't want to live in Pretoria or on a Reservation, all that filth and squalor...but I wouldn't measure the human rights that should be doled out to those who do on that basis.

    You are obsfucating.

    And if in applying the yardstick of basic human rights the council in the area you live in decided that they were going to build a halting site 100 m down the road from your house/apartment, would you mind?


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    #126
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    You are obsfucating.

    And if in applying the yardstick of basic human rights the council in the area you live in decided that they were going to build a halting site 100 m down the road from your house/apartment, would you mind?

    He would be handing out business cards on their arrival


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    #127
    Church on Tuesday
    Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    Just like decent health care, clean water, safety in our homes. We all have human rights in Ireland but that doesn't mean that we get them.

    Of course we do. Ireland has a lot of problems, but it's hardly a third world country.


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    #128
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    That's an old one that has no basis in logic. When did "the ideal neighbour" become the yardstick for applying human rights?

    I wouldn't want to live in Pretoria or on a Reservation, all that filth and squalor...but I wouldn't measure the human rights that should be doled out to those who do on that basis.

    How come you and eotr keep cherry picking which posts to reply to?


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    #129
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    How come you and eotr keep cherry picking which posts to reply to?

    Are you new here? :pac:


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    #130
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    Church on Tuesday wrote:
    Of course we do. Ireland has a lot of problems, but it's hardly a third world country.

    If we stop pandering to sections of our society that don't deserve it, we could address some of those problems


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    #131
    Church on Tuesday
    Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    If we stop pandering to sections of our society that don't deserve it, we could address some of those problems


    Who are the sections of society that don't deserve it?


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    #132
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,443 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Well if the rest of us did like the pavees and let our rubbish pile up it would be something similar to your average halting site, difference is we pay to have it taken away where as they let it build up until the council clear it for them.

    These gobsh1tes from The Council of Europe who think they are so hard done by haven't a clue, Travellers spend their whole life leeching off working people and that will never change.

    Yet there seems to be lots of money for weddings and funerals.


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    #133
    Gerrup Outta Dat!
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 492 ✭✭Gerrup Outta Dat!


    A culturally appropriate home? So a run down caravan with a kitchen sink that doubles up as a urinal and a bed big enough for John-Joe and his first cousin?


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    #134
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Well if the rest of us did like the pavees and let our rubbish pile up it would be something similar to your average halting site, difference is we pay to have it taken away where as they let it build up until the council clear it for them.

    well, it seems we don't all pay to have it taken away. or at least, some pay to have it taken away by illegal contractors
    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    These gobsh1tes from The Council of Europe who think they are so hard done by haven't a clue, Travellers spend their whole life leeching off working people and that will never change.

    Yet there seems to be lots of money for weddings and funerals.

    the council of europe very much have a clue. we were breaching the law and got caught.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #135
    Will I Am Not
    Registered Users Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭Will I Am Not


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Well if the rest of us did like the pavees and let our rubbish pile up it would be something similar to your average halting site, difference is we pay to have it taken away where as they let it build up until the council clear it for them.

    These gobsh1tes from The Council of Europe who think they are so hard done by haven't a clue, Travellers spend their whole life leeching off working people and that will never change.

    Yet there seems to be lots of money for weddings and funerals.

    From my experience, travellers just don’t believe in paying for certain services.
    Refuse collection, insurance, VRT among other things.

    There’s 2 families living not too far away and they fill their wheelie bins during the week and bring them to the far end of the green to empty and burn the contents.
    They just don’t comprehend that they are doing anything wrong.

    Of course when it come to anything they are entitled to they know the game inside out.


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    #136
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,443 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    end of the road wrote: »
    well, it seems we don't all pay to have it taken away. or at least, some pay to have it taken away by illegal contractors.

    Are you including yourself in this group?


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    #137
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,443 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    The Fake Sheikh wrote: »
    From my experience, travellers just don’t believe in paying for certain services.
    Refuse collection, insurance, VRT among other things.

    There’s 2 families living not too far away and they fill their wheelie bins during the week and bring them to the far end of the green to empty and burn the contents.
    They just don’t comprehend that they are doing anything wrong.

    Of course when it come to anything they are entitled to they know the game inside out.

    Yeah and they all drive around in vehicles that are nearly new, but sure I suppose we could all do that if we didn't have to pay tax, mortgages or rent.


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    #138
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Are you including yourself in this group?


    i'm not no .

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #139
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Yeah and they all drive around in vehicles that are nearly new, but sure I suppose we could all do that if we didn't have to pay tax, mortgages or rent.

    Transferred a large wedge to revenue this month myself pity I couldn't have headed down to the local showroom instead


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    #140
    marklazarcovic
    Registered Users Posts: 6,211 ✭✭✭marklazarcovic


    take them out of the paid for halting sites and the surrounding rubbish, move them into paid for homes in nice estates, watch the rubbish pile up,estates loose value on properties, they know all this. also, i pass carrowbrowne a good bit.. a good number of pricey vehicles in there all the time,cars id never be able to afford as a ordinary working man.


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    #141
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    Church on Tuesday wrote:
    Who are the sections of society that don't deserve it?


    Travellers


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    #142
    Irish Praetorian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Irish Praetorian


    One question I never see answered in this threads from the pro-traveller crowd is, how much is the state expected to pay for a 'culturally appropriate' lifestyle? Are the rest of the population in a mugs game for working in order to pay for their rent/mortgage, for their rubbish disposal? Is the state expected to provide the entirety of someone's income just because people purport to be a certain ethnicity?

    Moreover, I can't understand where all the defensiveness surrounding traveller issues comes from. It's a fairly regular debate in our societies about how much state largess people should receive, from the elderly in retirement to young families with new children. Yet I struggle to recall the last time a political party so much as broached the issue when it comes to travellers.


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    #143
    Church on Tuesday
    Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    Travellers

    The money that's been spent on accommodation for Travellers isn't going to vastly improve public services in Ireland by itself.

    I do agree, however, that furnishing accommodation for most Travellers appears to be a bit pointless, as said accommodation is often essentially destroyed.

    It's a human right for someone to have a roof over their head and that applies to Travellers also, but it's a nonsense that said accommodation has to be "culturally appropriate".


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    #144
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,297 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Irish Praetorian wrote: »
    One question I never see answered in this threads from the pro-traveller crowd is, how much is the state expected to pay for a 'culturally appropriate' lifestyle?
    Unlimited amounts. They'd get the government to buy them a caravan when they turn 18 if they could!
    Irish Praetorian wrote: »
    Are the rest of the population in a mugs game for working in order to pay for their rent/mortgage, for their rubbish disposal?
    Yes.
    Irish Praetorian wrote: »
    Is the state expected to provide the entirety of someone's income just because people purport to be a certain ethnicity?
    Yes.
    Irish Praetorian wrote: »
    Yet I struggle to recall the last time a political party so much as broached the issue when it comes to travellers.
    I'd assume that they're afraid that the travellers would set up camp outside their house if they did.


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    #145
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Irish Praetorian wrote: »
    One question I never see answered in this threads from the pro-traveller crowd is, how much is the state expected to pay for a 'culturally appropriate' lifestyle? Are the rest of the population in a mugs game for working in order to pay for their rent/mortgage, for their rubbish disposal? Is the state expected to provide the entirety of someone's income just because people purport to be a certain ethnicity?

    Moreover, I can't understand where all the defensiveness surrounding traveller issues comes from. It's a fairly regular debate in our societies about how much state largess people should receive, from the elderly in retirement to young families with new children. Yet I struggle to recall the last time a political party so much as broached the issue when it comes to travellers.

    If a political party openly got tough on this issue especially in country areas they would not need to worry about getting elected again


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    #146
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    Church on Tuesday wrote:
    The money that's been spent on accommodation for Travellers isn't going to vastly improve public services in Ireland by itself.

    Sorry if I didn't make myself clear, I meant that ANY money spent on travellers is not deserved and could be better used elsewhere


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    #147
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    Everybody has a right to own their own home.

    People do not have a right to a free compound, with high walls and multiple homes where only their family members can live in.

    They don't want homes, they want free mini estates. What planet are these people on?


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    #148
    Church on Tuesday
    Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    Sorry if I didn't make myself clear, I meant that ANY money spent on travellers is not deserved and could be better used elsewhere

    Genuinely won't make much of a difference.


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    #149
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    Everybody has a right to own their own home.

    People do not have a right to a free compound, with high walls and multiple homes where only their family members can live in.

    They don't want homes, they want free mini estates. What planet are these people on?

    plannet earth, where they won't be getting a free compound, with high walls and multiple homes where only their family members can live in.
    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    Sorry if I didn't make myself clear, I meant that ANY money spent on travellers is not deserved and could be better used elsewhere

    the european council + all the relevant laws say such money for travelers is deserved.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #150
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    Church on Tuesday wrote:
    Genuinely won't make much of a difference.


    If it saw a few children through life enhancing operations it would be worth it. Give our scarce resources to those who deserve them and withdraw them from those taking the plss


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    #151
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    end of the road wrote:
    the european council + all the relevant laws say such money for travelers is deserved.


    They also say cucumbers should always be straight.


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