Snobbery in education.

Permabear · 24-04-2016 01:09PM

This post has been deleted.

steddyeddy · 24-04-2016 01:14PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

In fairness dude I don't think snobbery is the root of some of the arguments here. It's insecurity. You're talking about science like you know anything about it and repeating the word Harvard.

Permabear · 24-04-2016 02:33PM

This post has been deleted.

edbrez · 24-04-2016 02:35PM

MysticalRain wrote: »

As an aside, I went to an IT and had no problem with applying to Google and at least getting to the interview stage. Ditto for the US multinational I’ve spent the last few years working for either.

That's great news but our colleges should be producing graduates who want to set up the next Google not work for the existing one.

Giblet · 24-04-2016 02:37PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Electronic Engineering in a lot of ITs a few years ago was AQA. Knowing people who have done those courses until completion, you probably had less than 10% from year one are in year 4/5 (yes it's 5 years in some cases). Graduates from that course were extremely successful afterwards.

Giblet · 24-04-2016 02:37PM

edbrez wrote: »

That's great news but our colleges should be producing graduates who want to set up the next Google not work for the existing one.

They do, plenty of Startups around.

steddyeddy · 24-04-2016 02:39PM

Giblet wrote: »

They do, plenty of Startups around.

The Irish do very well in industry.

Permabear · 24-04-2016 02:40PM

This post has been deleted.

Giblet · 24-04-2016 02:42PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

The likes of EI are great help to budding Entrepreneurs!

edbrez · 24-04-2016 02:45PM

The problem with Irish education is that it's not world class. The brightest kids should study abroad.

Permabear · 24-04-2016 02:48PM

This post has been deleted.

The Randy Riverbeast · 24-04-2016 03:06PM

I dont see why who gets admitted is important. I would have thought it was the people finishing that would be important. Colleges have X amount of spaces to fill, they will fill them with their preferred X applicants. If college A fills all 20 places with students with 500+ points but colleges be only gets 15 students with 500+ points so takes in 5 students with 200-400 points. These 5 then drop out after first year. End result is that the students graduating were of the same standard going in. By the logic being used here the students at college A must have been better.

I got into my course at the cut off point and did better than all of the "higher standard" students.

steddyeddy · 24-04-2016 06:36PM

To answer the OP's question:

Has anyone encountered much snobbery when it comes to education?

Yes as evident by the responses on the thread regarding "higher calibre graduates" and "Harvard this and that".

You're a science grad though man. It won't hold you back at all. Don't take heed of some of the replies on here. There is a clear chip on the shoulder evident and some massive insecurity on display. If someone runs down another set of institutions constantly it should set alarm bells ringing.

If you go to any decent interview for a STEM job or position they will interview the graduate and not the graduate's university primarily. Each graduate will have their own strengths and weaknesses and the views that some of the posters here described regarding Irish grads ect are not ones that are seen in the real world. In other words it's made up BS designed to make the opinion holder feel better about their choices.

Iwasfrozen · 24-04-2016 06:41PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

To answer the OP's question:

Yes as evident by the responses on the thread regarding "higher calibre graduates" and "Harvard this and that".

You're a science grad though man. It won't hold you back at all. Don't take heed of some of the replies on here. There is a clear chip on the shoulder evident and some massive insecurity on display. If someone runs down another set of institutions constantly it should set alarm bells ringing.

If you go to any decent interview for a STEM job or position they will interview the graduate and not the graduate's university primarily. Each graduate will have their own strengths and weaknesses and the views that some of the posters here described regarding Irish grads ect are not ones that are seen in the real world. In other words it's made up BS designed to make the opinion holder feel better about their choices.

Do you really think a STEM degree from DCU is the same as a STEM degree from MIT?

I mean, that would be absolutely fantastic for me but it's just not true.

steddyeddy · 24-04-2016 06:44PM

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

I dont see why who gets admitted is important. I would have thought it was the people finishing that would be important. Colleges have X amount of spaces to fill, they will fill them with their preferred X applicants. If college A fills all 20 places with students with 500+ points but colleges be only gets 15 students with 500+ points so takes in 5 students with 200-400 points. These 5 then drop out after first year. End result is that the students graduating were of the same standard going in. By the logic being used here the students at college A must have been better.

I got into my course at the cut off point and did better than all of the "higher standard" students.

It doesn't really. Science used to be 500 points but then people took it up thinking it would be easy and dropped out when it got difficult. So what? It would be worse if they actually got through. Points are assigned to courses based on popularity and not difficulty. I actually think interviews are the way forward.

I actually think the points system is tripe.

timthumbni · 24-04-2016 06:44PM

What about the church still being involved in education. Surely the church and the word education are at 2 opposite ends of the spectrum.

steddyeddy · 24-04-2016 06:46PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Do you really think a STEM degree from DCU is the same as a STEM degree from MIT?

I mean, that would be absolutely fantastic for me but it's just not true.

No as I said some degrees are harder than others. However it's the graduate that's interviewed not the graduate's university.

Get the edge on your competitors by publishing, taking up summer internships, making contacts with other scientists.

steddyeddy · 24-04-2016 06:46PM

timthumbni wrote: »

What about the church still being involved in education. Surely the church and the word education are at 2 opposite ends of the spectrum.

I don't think the church has a role at all.

Iwasfrozen · 24-04-2016 06:47PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

No as I said some degrees are harder than others. However it's the graduate that's interviewed not the graduate's university.

Get the edge on your competitors by publishing, taking up summer internships, making contacts with other scientists.

So do you think a science degree from DCU is the same as a science degree from MIT?

If not then surely the institution clearly does matter. Ask yourself who is an employer more likely to employ, given the chance? Which one has a better reputation? Reputation affects reality.

steddyeddy · 24-04-2016 06:49PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

So do you think a science degree from DCU is the same as a science degree from MIT?

No two degrees are the same. What do you mean the same?

Right I just read your edited post.

Yes of course the degree and institution matters. However hard work and intelligence matter more IMHO.

Also the supervisor in terms of postgraduate.

timthumbni · 24-04-2016 06:50PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I don't think the church has a role at all.

Well I'm not sure what the republic is like but I can assure you that there are still many schools in Northern Ireland that are very much still under the influence of the church. They should have no role but they most certainly do.

steddyeddy · 24-04-2016 06:52PM

timthumbni wrote: »

Well I'm not sure what the republic is like but I can assure you that there are still many schools in Northern Ireland that are very much still under the influence of the church. They should have no role but they most certainly do.

Unfortunately some of the best schools are run by the Jesuits here.

Iwasfrozen · 24-04-2016 06:52PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

No two degrees are the same. What do you mean the same?

Sure, and the difference being the institution that sets the course. That's why reputation is so important. Which of DCU and MIT have the better reputation?

Permabear · 24-04-2016 06:52PM

This post has been deleted.

24-04-2016 06:53PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

To answer the OP's question:

Yes as evident by the responses on the thread regarding "higher calibre graduates" and "Harvard this and that".

You're a science grad though man. It won't hold you back at all. Don't take heed of some of the replies on here. There is a clear chip on the shoulder evident and some massive insecurity on display. If someone runs down another set of institutions constantly it should set alarm bells ringing.

If you go to any decent interview for a STEM job or position they will interview the graduate and not the graduate's university primarily. Each graduate will have their own strengths and weaknesses and the views that some of the posters here described regarding Irish grads ect are not ones that are seen in the real world. In other words it's made up BS designed to make the opinion holder feel better about their choices.

I can't let this go as the lack of self awareness is astounding.

Nobody can dispute that some world-class institutions produce world leaders. That is indisputable and you'd be an utter fool to try. This is what I said.

Recognising this is a completely different to saying that Arts grads are less intelligent to STEM grads, or that Arts courses are easy, or that people who do arts do so because they can't get the points for STEM courses. This is what you have said and implied. Again and again and again.

For someone who sees themselves as something of a class warrior I find it perplexing that you'll rail against a person being discriminated or thought less of because of their address, their accent, their secondary school, but you have absolutely no problem dismissing an arts student as, by definition, less intelligent.

You even try support some of your assertions by falsely claiming to have DIRECT knowledge of both the US and UK education system. In FACT, you know a few graduates from each. I know a Japanese student, does that mean I've been to Uni in Japan?

You also assume that people study arts because it takes fewer points. I'm sure many people who do arts have enough points to do STEM degrees - and choose not to! Amazing, I know.

Being in science doesn't make you superior in any way to anyone else. It doesn't make your education superior. All it does is make it different.

To finish off this litany of assumption and sneering, you accuse others of snobbery.

I beg to differ.

Pot, meet Kettle.

steddyeddy · 24-04-2016 06:56PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Sure, and the difference being the institution that sets the course. That's why reputation is so important. Which of DCU and MIT have the better reputation?

The institution sets the course and that's why the reputation is important? Could you rephrase this?

Permabear · 24-04-2016 06:58PM

This post has been deleted.

Dughorm · 24-04-2016 06:59PM

timthumbni wrote: »

Surely the church and the word education are at 2 opposite ends of the spectrum.

How so? Wasn't there a time that there was no education without the churches?

But back on topic, aren't some of the most "prestigious" snobby schools also religious ones?

Iwasfrozen · 24-04-2016 06:59PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

The institution sets the course and that's why the reputation is important? Could you rephrase this?

An MIT science degree is harder to obtain than a DCU science degree. Employers know this and that makes the MIT degree more valuable than the DCU degree.

The reputation of any institution is all important as that's how they attract the best students.

Permabear · 24-04-2016 07:10PM

This post has been deleted.

Snobbery in education.

Comments