Snobbery in education.

Permabear

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Permabear

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CatFromHue

Permabear wrote: »

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Do those rankings not base a huge amount of the results on the amount of research done at a particular uni?

40% of the result is from "Academic Peer Review" and another 20% for "Citations per Faculty". Looking at their website they have

Respondents are asked to identify up to ten domestic institutions they consider best for research in each of the faculty areas selected in Section 2. Their own institution, if it would otherwise be included, is excluded from the presented list.

so that implies it's research based.

Citations is obviously also based on published research papers.

So these rankings might have little to do with the quality of the education of the student i.e. does a student who graduates with a Level 8 degree from UL and someone from a much higher ranked uni differ? I dunno.

Permabear

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Permabear

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coffee_cake

Permabear wrote: »

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Especially since physics WAS "natural philosophy"

Eugene Norman

Candie wrote: »

The irony is that real polymaths see the value in a diverse and wide ranging palette of areas, as opposed to those with narrow parameters of what they consider valuable or worth knowing or exploring.

The greatest geniuses the world has known have been polymaths. From Leonardo DaVinci, Descartes and Aristotle to Benjamin Franklin, Philip Warren Anderson and Carl Shulman.

All these polymaths could do the science as well of course. Most scientists are polymaths. Most arts students can't do maths.

Eugene Norman

bluewolf wrote: »

Especially since physics WAS "natural philosophy"

Astronomy was, or grew from, astrology. Chemistry from alchemy.

Eugene Norman

Eugene Norman wrote: »

All these polymaths could do the science as well of course. Most scientists are polymaths. Most arts students can't do maths.

There are many more who weren't primarily scientists, it being one of many areas of expertise. But you know that.

How do you know most arts students can't do maths? Have you tested most arts students or is this another blanket statement like your being better read than most arts students? Or is this your assumption at play, again?

Permabear

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Eugene Norman

Permabear wrote: »

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Whatever about the US, the calibre of student in Ireland could be gauged by the average points needed per course and there really isn't much difference across universities (not ITs) but plenty within them.

Are physics students in Oxbridge smarter than physics students in UCD. Maybe, maybe not. What's certain is that physics students in either are smarter than arts students in either.

Probably only in the elite universities are there arts students with any kind of intelligence. I didn't notice that very much in Oxford though.

However the quality of grad students is better of course.

Iwasfrozen

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Whatever about the US, the calibre of student in Ireland could be gauged by the average points needed per course and there really isn't much difference across universities (not ITs) but plenty within them.

Are physics students in Oxbridge smarter than physics students in UCD. Maybe, maybe not. What's certain is that physics students in either are smarter than arts students in either.

Probably only in the elite universities are there arts students with any kind of intelligence. I didn't notice that very much in Oxford though.

However the quality of grad students is better of course.

I have a STEM pre and post grad degree, you're talking through your hoop when you say science students are more intelligent than arts student.

Permabear

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Eugene Norman

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Whatever about the US, the calibre of student in Ireland could be gauged by the average points needed per course and there really isn't much difference across universities (not ITs) but plenty within them.

Are physics students in Oxbridge smarter than physics students in UCD. Maybe, maybe not. What's certain is that physics students in either are smarter than arts students in either.

Probably only in the elite universities are there arts students with any kind of intelligence. I didn't notice that very much in Oxford though.

However the quality of grad students is better of course.

I'd say it's a poor indicator of your ability to appreciate intelligence in others if you make blanket statements about the relative intelligence of students of different disciplines.

You have to wonder what motivates people to insist they're of greater intelligence than others, despite a lack of actual evidence.

I don't assume I'm of greater intelligence to someone with, say, a media studies degree. Just like I don't assume I'm smarter than a carpenter, the woman who does my dry-cleaning, or the waiter who serves me coffee.

Perhaps it's because I don't need to, since I can allow that intelligence comes in many forms, and excels in many areas, and I don't presume to have intimate knowledge of the challenges inherent in, and most pertinently, the intellects of people involved in fields other than my own.

Intellectual snobbery has zero value.

Permabear

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osarusan

My willy degree is bigger than yours.

Permabear

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Diabhal Beag

I think both sides are in the wrong here and I say that as a grad from GMIT (don't ask why I'm still mod).

There's absolutely still snobby arseholes who look down on IT students/grads and it's amazing considering what we've seen in terms of young Irish men and women leaving the country with fantastic degrees in search of work. On the other hand there's also that inferiority complex from IT colleges where they throw out the anecdotes about how certain companies prefer IT grads over NUI-types (probably a situation where HR have experienced that same snobby attitude/went to an IT and are using this as their revenge).

The truth is somewhere along the middle where companies want smart and capable graduates but it's really previous experience that counts the most. If you can get in somewhere doing Summer internships for your discipline it'll be more important than your grades.

Permabear

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CramCycle

Permabear wrote: »

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It is quite ironic, including the scientist who didn't actually knoow what STEM actually stood for :pac:

Permabear wrote: »

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Knowing several people who work in Google, that is simply not true, but they do spend alot of time filtering people out via apptitude tests for certain positions, there would be a minimum requirement for the degree. I have only heard of one company doing the "we only higher graduates from such and such" here. Ironically it was in regards computer science and he referred to a university wher the CS degree would be laughed at by many in the field, the only use of it is that its a degree but graduates without strong related exra curricular activity are no more use than a level 6 programming cert (if one exsists), most codordojos being far more advanced.

Avatar MIA

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Probably only in the elite universities are there arts students with any kind of intelligence.

I suspect you've a very bizarre concept of intelligence.

donegaLroad

Permabear wrote: »

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George Bush's MBA is from Harvard

donegaLroad

donegaLroad wrote: »

George Bush's MBA is from Harvard

Legacy brat.

Permabear

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CramCycle

Permabear wrote: »

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My old company primarily recruited from UCD and TCD. Just happened that's where the applicants were from. Knowing one of these courses Calibre, it is the graduate and not the degree that got the job.

FizzleSticks

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jimgoose

Your university-educated friend knows fcuk-all. I.T. degrees are conferred by one of the Universities.

jimgoose

Permabear wrote: »

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Google has applied more than once to be my employer. I was somewhat underwhelmed by the quality of this applicant, and thus I elected to keep their application on file. In a file cyaaabinet.

donegaLroad

FizzleSticks wrote: »

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I know a guy from home, who did his phd in Cornell, and he never mentions it because it means nothing to most people locally. The OH was gobsmacked when he told her one night in the pub that he was a Cornell grad.

jimgoose

donegaLroad wrote: »

I know a guy from home, who did his phd in Cornell, and he never mentions it because it means nothing to most people locally. The OH was gobsmacked when he told her one night in the pub that he was a Cornell grad.

Hye-ass. You can tell a Yale man, but you can't tell him much!