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Allergic to Work

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Comments

  • #272
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    wingnut wrote: »

    I made the point to counteract the comments that people not on SW have no idea what it is like to live on €188 where in reality buy the time tax and additional expenses are factored in there is no huge gap if any (for salaries around the 40-50k mark at least).

    Yet to make this point you needed to compare one hypothetical group with a mortgage to one without a mortgage.

    So, you didn't really make the point you intended to make at all.


  • #273
    wingnut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭wingnut


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Yet to make this point you needed to compare one hypothetical group with a mortgage to one without a mortgage.

    So, you didn't really make the point you intended to make at all.

    Even without out the mortgage you have to rent, which in Dublin would be the same price. Also the group of people who work and pay mortgages actually exist, they are not hypothetical!


  • #274
    5starpool
    Subscribers Posts: 32,866 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    I'm allergic to work. Sadly I haven't been able to come up with an alternative that will pay me close to what I currently earn without working. If only I could convince several thousand people to give me a few euro a month and I'd be grand. Bound to be a viable business plan in there somewhere.


  • #275
    bikermartin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭bikermartin


    mhge wrote: »
    Real artists do not rely on the dole alone though. For a real "benefit street" family it would be a combination of well timed unemployment benefits, lone parent's, disability, carer's, SWO payments and housing of some sort. There's one family like that in my neighbourhood - two parents, a daughter, her three children and (visiting) two fathers of said children. None of them is employed and never has been as far as my neighbours can remember. All seem quite spry and active and not bad people to be honest - they just game the system because it allows them to.


    start giving a reward for reporting them :P I do it i a flash..... that would stop there weekends out drinking.... I know the kind I have people in my road doing the same.....would not work a real job if offered to them. The same crowd are not even looking for a job....... cash is the name for them plus the single parent money... then money from the 2 fathers of the children..... you can tell Im not happy :eek: these are the ones with 2012 cars..... a bit sickening for a single parent that doesent have a job!


  • #276
    bolopapa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 55 ✭✭bolopapa


    I have a friend who's 33 not working at all, atleast not since have known him, all he does is force everyone to download his frkn songs!!!. Still saying he would become a hit someday. What do you say about that?. Personally I do find him amussing, more like a monkey riding a unicycle juggling bananas.


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  • #277
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,721 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Free Hat wrote: »
    I think the percentage of people who don't want to work but can probably stays pretty static. I don't think its right wing to want those people to contribute to society.

    And exactly how does one get "them" to contribute to society?

    There aren't even enough jobs going around for people who want to work FFS.

    At the end of the day, the people who have no interest in getting a job ever are a miniscule number in the grand scheme of things. The vast, vast, vast majority of people who find themselves in receipt of social welfare do so out of circumstance beyond their control and not by any choice.

    Noonan should STFU.


  • #278
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    I'll just leave this here:
    https://rwer.wordpress.com/2015/03/29/graph-of-the-day-people-available-to-work-but-not-seeking-a-job/

    The Irish are objectively among the most willing to work in all of Europe. They just need to be given jobs.


  • #279
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Tony EH wrote: »
    And exactly how does one get "them" to contribute to society?

    There aren't even enough jobs going around for people who want to work FFS.

    At the end of the day, the people who have no interest in getting a job ever are a miniscule number in the grand scheme of things. The vast, vast, vast majority of people who find themselves in receipt of social welfare do so out of circumstance beyond their control and not by any choice.

    Noonan should STFU.

    Is he not busy giving the boot to the lazy greeks :pac:


  • #280
    tumbledwarf
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4 ✭tumbledwarf


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    I'll just leave this here:


    The Irish are objectively among the most willing to work in all of Europe. They just need to be given jobs.

    Interesting link.


  • #281
    Jesus Wept
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,243 ✭✭✭✭Jesus Wept


    wingnut wrote: »
    Sick of this poor mouth claptrap. If you earn a 'good' wage of around 40 odd k you end up with about €550 after taxes and other deductions.

    On a modest mortgage (200k variable) half your take home is gone already. You will have €275 per week to live on.

    So you end up with about €87 a week more than social welfare. Out of that you pay.

    Medical expenses & prescription (no medical card)
    Things like state exam fees etc that medical card holders get free (no medical card)
    Child minding (€€€€)
    Cost of travel to work, food at work.
    Maintenance of house & appliances (Not paid for RA or council houses)
    Can't apply to the CWO for exceptional expenses.

    Ok so you do end up with your house as an asset but the notion the middle classes have no appreciation of how to survive on that kind of money is total baloney. Reality is a lot of people on benefit end up with more disposable income that those on a 'good' wage.

    I personally know extended family and acquaintances on SW who can afford to socialize every weekend, go on multiple holidays have expensive buggies, and generally seem to have more disposable than many of my working friends. Not hearsay personal experience.

    Rant over.

    586 from my calculations.
    1872 difference.

    http://www.pwc.ie/campaigns/budget/2014-2015/calculator.jhtml


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  • #282
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Noonan has been suckling on the tit of tax payers as a public servant as past forty years. I'm sure he'd know a lot about it.

    If work was in his bed, he'd sleep on the floor.

    What bizarre waffle I don't like Noonan he is an unpleasant individual, however he is a TD which are paid by the state he has been elected and you don't get elected by staying in bed, just because politics is not bricklaying does not mean its not hard work.


  • #283
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Tony EH wrote: »
    And exactly how does one get "them" to contribute to society?

    There aren't even enough jobs going around for people who want to work FFS.

    At the end of the day, the people who have no interest in getting a job ever are a miniscule number in the grand scheme of things. The vast, vast, vast majority of people who find themselves in receipt of social welfare do so out of circumstance beyond their control and not by any choice.

    Noonan should STFU.

    I would have a different view of contributing to society, say there is this middle aged man he is unemployed his wife works part time, he meanwhile runs the residents association/ involved in the tidy towns, and or runs the local boxing or football, club or is involved with the scouts he also minds his grandchildren two afternoon a week that person is contributing loads to their community despite not having a job.


  • #284
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    If you are able to work then you should be working, end of story.

    Just because you cannot a job in the particular area you studied or really want is not an excuse to rest on your laurels or jump onto the nearest dole queue.

    If people are struggling as much as they say they are then they should be willing to do any job to pay the bills.

    And those of us lucky enough to be employed should not have pay for those who can't be bother looking for work or refuse to work in any job except what they trained originally.


  • #285
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The Rodgers wrote: »
    586 from my calculations.
    1872 difference.

    http://www.pwc.ie/campaigns/budget/2014-2015/calculator.jhtml

    This come up over and over again, if you pick one particular point in a family and compare them you can make it seem as if its better to be on benefits, however you have to look at the whole of someone life LONGTERM you will always be better off working your children will have a better lifestyle and acutely to do 'best' out of the system you would be better off working part ime and calming family income supplement making sure you income stays under the level of third level grants etc.

    In the table below find the maximum income limit for a family with the number of children you have. From this maximum income limit for your family size, take away your total family income.

    This is from citizens information.


    You can clame if: Your family income is less than:
    one child €506
    two children €602
    three children €703
    four children €824
    five children €950
    six children €1,066
    seven children €1,202
    eight children €1,298


  • #286
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    If you are able to work then you should be working, end of story.

    Just because you cannot a job in the particular area you studied or really want is not an excuse to rest on your laurels or jump onto the nearest dole queue.

    If people are struggling as much as they say they are then they should be willing to do any job to pay the bills.

    And those of us lucky enough to be employed should not have pay for those who can't be bother looking for work or refuse to work in any job except what they trained originally.
    Look at the stats. We have 26 people per job vacancy (stats fully sourced) - which means 26 unemployed people for every job - and the link in my previous post here shows the Irish are among the most willing to work in all of Europe.

    The idea that people on the dole are just lazy, is just total ignorance - and requires wilful ignorance of the stats.


  • #287
    Geuze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/6886526/3-18062015-BP-EN.pdf/8441ad15-4ee6-405d-9ef4-ee47df517fb3

    Job vacancy stats for 2015.


  • #288
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    Geuze wrote: »
    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/6886526/3-18062015-BP-EN.pdf/8441ad15-4ee6-405d-9ef4-ee47df517fb3

    Job vacancy stats for 2015.
    Those are vacancy rates, not 'Unemployed per Job Vacancy', and they are in percentages - you need raw numbers of vacancies and raw number of unemployed to get 'Unemployed per Job Vacancy'.


  • #289
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Another point that is often missed is the fact the vast majority of people like working its about having a purposeful existence as for the people who don't have mental or physical health issue and still don't want to work they make up a tiny percentage of the unemployed.


  • #290
    Geuze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:People_aged_less_than_60_living_in_households_with_very_low_work_intensity,_2013%E2%80%9314_(%25)_YB16.png

    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/6/68/People_aged_less_than_60_living_in_households_with_very_low_work_intensity%2C_2013%E2%80%9314_%28%25%29_YB16.png


  • #291
    poa
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 541 ✭✭✭poa


    mfceiling wrote: »
    Just heard Micheal Noonan's comment about some people being allergic to work.

    Has he hit the nail on the head?

    I'm self employed in construction and with a family I need to work. Thankfully I've managed to keep going but at times I've had to do work I wouldn't normally do and work for lads who would make death a pleasant thought!! I've rang strangers asking if they'd work in the future, sent loads of emails to companies asking them to consider me for work and even called into sites to see what work was available. I've never really been out of work as I line up jobs well in advance to ensure I'm not idle. I love going to work and couldn't bear the thought of sitting on my arse twiddling my thumbs.

    Should everyone who is able to work be working? Noonan says there'll be work for anyone who wants it. Should a graphic designer flip burgers or an accountant wait on tables until something in their field comes available?

    Would your pride stop you sweeping floors and you'd prefer the dole or do you need to be working?

    My opinion may be an unpopular one; but its the truth.
    I am 39 years old and the dole. I resigned from my job as I had enough of it.
    Am I fit and able to work? Yes. Do I want to? No.
    The thing is, I am happier on the dole and not stressed. When I worked I didn't have a work/life balance. I left home at 7.00am and got home 7.00pm. I did an honest days work for an honest days pay; about 5 hours out of my 8 hour shift would be productive if I am honest.
    But I always remembered working with my father; as a moody teenager; and he said, son if your heart isn't in a job don't do it. And he sent me into the house.
    Its very true that, if a mans heart isn't in a job then its not worth doing.
    I know mortgages need paying, and kids need feeding etc. But I don't have either, so I can live without much income.
    Would I take a 9.15 Euro per hour job? No. I could do it but would only last say 2-3 months until I either got sacked or jacked it in due to it not being rewarding or stimulating enough; that's the reality.
    The problem is; once you have been a manager and earned good money, it's hard to ever go back to less money in a lower position.
    But then you get the stage where you think; do I want to do this job any more? And be stressed every day, leaving home at 7.00am for the big money? I did in my early 30's but now at 39 I don't.
    I wake up around 10.00am naturally, and have a lay in when I want now. After 20 years of getting up at 5.30am that is priceless to me; honestly that's the truth. Maybe I worked too hard and burned myself out? I don't know.
    My father had a very strong worth ethic; as many men of the 50's did. He did the work of 2 men to support our family and mortgage through tough recessions long before the Celtic Tiger boom and bust.
    I worked hard from 21 to 38 in career jobs; but if I am honest it was more to live up to my parents and friends expectations; rather than my own aspirations or ambition.
    I am happier on the dole than I ever was when I worked, that's the reality. OK I don't have the money, but I have time; and at 39 its more time I want not money.
    So am I allergic to work? Yes, I suppose I am. I only did it because I had to. Now I regret all the years I spent working doing something I didn't really enjoy.
    I changed jobs, but that was never the answer I hoped it would be. The truth is, I just hate work.
    The way I see it is this; if you want to work then fair play to you. And if you don't then that's fine too. One shouldn't try to impose one's views on another man; its freedom of choice.
    When I worked I paid my taxes and supported the sponges on the dole, the lifers that have never worked. And now I am one of them. I probably won't ever work again. Do I feel any guilt in being fit and able to work, but choosing not to? None at all.
    I suppose if I had a mortgage and kids I would have to, but I don't have to; that's the point.
    I never got into debt or borrowed money. I saved. I lived within my means. I see the dole like a weekly pension really. I just think its like retiring early at 39 rather than 65.
    If I kept working like I was I would probably have a heart attack or breakdown from it.
    Having a strong work ethic is admirable, but it ruined my father's health. And when he retired at 65 he wasn't able to enjoy it as a result.
    I always swore to myself that I would never make the same mistake, and would retire at 50. But then last year at 38 I thought; fk this man. I am done working in this office or any office until I am 65. And so I resigned.
    My friends all think I am mad, and can't understand how I could be happy not working.
    The truth is, there isn't a job out there I want to do.
    Yesterday I was listening to the radio laying on my sunlounger in the sun, drinking a mug of tea. I could have been stuck in that office. I thought about that. Money isn't everything you know, happiness is worth more.


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  • #292
    reggiegates
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3 ✭reggiegates


    poa wrote: »
    if I am honest it was more to live up to my parents and friends expectations; rather than my own aspirations or ambition.

    Well, you can't aim much higher than the dole; its the pinnacle of achievement.


  • #293
    MRnotlob606
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭MRnotlob606


    No wonder we have such a problem in this country with mental health. People flippantly being called lazy for being unemployed or being told to stick a in a job they don't like.


  • #294
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    MRnotlob606 wrote: »
    No wonder we have such a problem in this country with mental health. People flippantly being called lazy for being unemployed or being told to stick a in a job they don't like.

    If your job is so bad that your mental health is being compromised then you absolutely have to leave. There is no question of that being the wrong thing to do, health comes first. But leaving a job to go on the dole because you don't like it.....its not the same. Work, like anything, will be up and down, there will be days you want to jack it in and walk out, there will be days you feel you are undervalued or being taken advantage of. You can either walk away and be a lazy fcuk who lives off social welfare and gives nothing back or you can try and work it out. If its really that bad you can walk away and look for another job or go back to college, but there is no justification for deciding to just do nothing with your life.


  • #295
    Joshua J
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Joshua J


    poa wrote: »
    My opinion may be an unpopular one; but its the truth.
    I am 39 years old and the dole. I resigned from my job as I had enough of it.
    Am I fit and able to work? Yes. Do I want to? No.
    The thing is, I am happier on the dole and not stressed. When I worked I didn't have a work/life balance. I left home at 7.00am and got home 7.00pm. I did an honest days work for an honest days pay; about 5 hours out of my 8 hour shift would be productive if I am honest.
    But I always remembered working with my father; as a moody teenager; and he said, son if your heart isn't in a job don't do it. And he sent me into the house.
    Its very true that, if a mans heart isn't in a job then its not worth doing.
    I know mortgages need paying, and kids need feeding etc. But I don't have either, so I can live without much income.
    Would I take a 9.15 Euro per hour job? No. I could do it but would only last say 2-3 months until I either got sacked or jacked it in due to it not being rewarding or stimulating enough; that's the reality.
    The problem is; once you have been a manager and earned good money, it's hard to ever go back to less money in a lower position.
    But then you get the stage where you think; do I want to do this job any more? And be stressed every day, leaving home at 7.00am for the big money? I did in my early 30's but now at 39 I don't.
    I wake up around 10.00am naturally, and have a lay in when I want now. After 20 years of getting up at 5.30am that is priceless to me; honestly that's the truth. Maybe I worked too hard and burned myself out? I don't know.
    My father had a very strong worth ethic; as many men of the 50's did. He did the work of 2 men to support our family and mortgage through tough recessions long before the Celtic Tiger boom and bust.
    I worked hard from 21 to 38 in career jobs; but if I am honest it was more to live up to my parents and friends expectations; rather than my own aspirations or ambition.
    I am happier on the dole than I ever was when I worked, that's the reality. OK I don't have the money, but I have time; and at 39 its more time I want not money.
    So am I allergic to work? Yes, I suppose I am. I only did it because I had to. Now I regret all the years I spent working doing something I didn't really enjoy.
    I changed jobs, but that was never the answer I hoped it would be. The truth is, I just hate work.
    The way I see it is this; if you want to work then fair play to you. And if you don't then that's fine too. One shouldn't try to impose one's views on another man; its freedom of choice.
    When I worked I paid my taxes and supported the sponges on the dole, the lifers that have never worked. And now I am one of them. I probably won't ever work again. Do I feel any guilt in being fit and able to work, but choosing not to? None at all.
    I suppose if I had a mortgage and kids I would have to, but I don't have to; that's the point.
    I never got into debt or borrowed money. I saved. I lived within my means. I see the dole like a weekly pension really. I just think its like retiring early at 39 rather than 65.
    If I kept working like I was I would probably have a heart attack or breakdown from it.
    Having a strong work ethic is admirable, but it ruined my father's health. And when he retired at 65 he wasn't able to enjoy it as a result.
    I always swore to myself that I would never make the same mistake, and would retire at 50. But then last year at 38 I thought; fk this man. I am done working in this office or any office until I am 65. And so I resigned.
    My friends all think I am mad, and can't understand how I could be happy not working.
    The truth is, there isn't a job out there I want to do.
    Yesterday I was listening to the radio laying on my sunlounger in the sun, drinking a mug of tea. I could have been stuck in that office. I thought about that. Money isn't everything you know, happiness is worth more.

    Well said buddy and brave too on boards.ie lol. Prepare yourself. I'm in the same boat as yourself, worked for years but on the dole now. No wife kids just myself and am happy out. Do what I want, go running, play music, chill out, visit the mother, take dog to the beach whatever really. No ones going to build a statue to you for paying tax, and like you watched my dad work himself to the bone and die early. Life is for living and I found it hard to rationalise why I had to go and do something I didn't enjoy everyday not getting nearly compensated for my time which is incredibly valuable.


  • #296
    Tefral
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,417 ✭✭✭Tefral


    poa wrote: »
    My opinion may be an unpopular one; but its the truth.
    I am 39 years old and the dole. I resigned from my job as I had enough of it.
    Am I fit and able to work? Yes. Do I want to? No..

    I hope to god your a troll.

    What makes you think its alright for me to be taxed 40% of my wages so you can get a handout and sit out in the sun?

    This **** boils my blood


  • #297
    poa
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 541 ✭✭✭poa


    cronin_j wrote: »
    I hope to god your a troll.

    What makes you think its alright for me to be taxed 40% of my wages so you can get a handout and sit out in the sun?

    This **** boils my blood

    I worked and paid 40% tax myself. Then had enough of it.
    When I worked I felt the same about dole spongers.
    But then I thought I would be happier not working, and so I resigned.
    The way I see it is this, I paid my taxes for 20 years; and now I am sponging off those taxes.
    Fair's fair.
    I don't want to go on working until 65 then sit in the sun, I want that now at 39.
    That's the reality.


  • #298
    poa
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 541 ✭✭✭poa


    Joshua J wrote: »
    Well said buddy and brave too on boards.ie lol. Prepare yourself. I'm in the same boat as yourself, worked for years but on the dole now. No wife kids just myself and am happy out. Do what I want, go running, play music, chill out, visit the mother, take dog to the beach whatever really. No ones going to build a statue to you for paying tax, and like you watched my dad work himself to the bone and die early. Life is for living and I found it hard to rationalise why I had to go and do something I didn't enjoy everyday not getting nearly compensated for my time which is incredibly valuable.

    Max respect to you man. There are many like us who know the score, but often afraid to tell it how it is; due to it being unpopular with the majority.
    Work is like prostituting yourself, doing something you hate because you need money.
    My freedom is worth more to me than 9.15 Euro per hour.
    500 Euro per week won't buy 40 hours of my freedom any more. It used to, but these days I want time to do what I want.
    Say I had a mortgage and kids, I would work until 65 for sure. But I don't, and so don't see why I should bother. Be unhappy for another 26 years, and have money in the bank for what? I don't have any kids to pass it on to. So it's all pointless.
    Working hard then having a heart attack on the golf course at 65? No thanks.
    I want to enjoy my health now while I have it. I did 20 years stuck in offices on sunny days, when I could have been out in the sun.
    I won't ever go back to work, I am done with taking orders from the man.


  • #299
    Gaz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭Gaz


    Thats not how society works, taxes you paid in the past went towards running the country, not into a pot for you to then take back.

    Its disgusting that the rest of us work to pay for your lifestyle. Your dole should be cut to zero.


  • #300
    everlast75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,049 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    poa wrote: »
    I worked and paid 40% tax myself. Then had enough of it.
    When I worked I felt the same about dole spongers.
    But then I thought I would be happier not working, and so I resigned.
    The way I see it is this, I paid my taxes for 20 years; and now I am sponging off those taxes.
    Fair's fair.
    I don't want to go on working until 65 then sit in the sun, I want that now at 39.
    That's the reality.

    And now you have become one... so I guess you know how I feel about you, considering that I work a full week and then some

    If everyone did the same as you, the Country would grind to a halt. But don't let that stop you mate

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



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  • #301
    poa
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 541 ✭✭✭poa


    everlast75 wrote: »
    And now you have become one... so I guess you know how I feel about you, considering that I work a full week and then some

    If everyone did the same as you, the Country would grind to a halt. But don't let that stop you mate

    Ask yourself this; honestly,
    you are raging that people like me sponge off the dole.
    And I am apathetic whether people work or sponge in life.
    So who is the happier one? The man who is raging, or the man who is apathetic?
    Serious questions.
    You see working if it makes you rage about sponges on the dole isn't making you happy.
    But I am sponging, and feel nothing either way about workers/spongers.
    But I am happy, that is a given.
    Doing what is right for you, is fair enough. But expecting all men to do what you feel is right, isn't.
    Freedom of choice, doesn't mean we all work. It means choice; work/sponge.
    We live in a society where one can choose, so I take full advantage of it. There is no shame in doing so.


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