Allergic to Work

poa

Chiorino wrote: »

Paint it whatever way you like to make you feel good about it but what you are doing is wrong and the vast majority of people would agree with me.

The truth is I feel apathetic about whether a man works or sponges.
What the majority opinion is, matters not to me. What the minority opinion is, matters not to me either.
I realised in life, one can rage about these things or not give a fk. And either way it won't change a thing, it's just an opinion.
OK the majority agree, or disagree; big deal. There will always be workers, and always be spongers no matter what the opinion.
Do I feel good about it? I feel neither good nor bad. No guilt anyway.
I do feel happier on the dole then when I was working, I am sure of that. I don't feel I need to validate my feeling by backing it up with a majority seal of approval.
I tried both, working and sponging; and on balance prefer not working.
5.30am wake up V 10.00am wake up. Things like that.
Yesterday I could have been in an office for 8 hours, but I was on my sunlounger in the sun. These are the choices in life a man makes.
OK I don't have a mortgage or kids, so the pressure is less than some. But again, they were my choices in life.
I didn't decide to fall in with the righteous majority and marry with 2 kids and a Celtic Tiger mortgage. I worked for 20 years, saved, and didn't have kids.
And now at 39 I am done with work.
If I had kids and a mortgage I would have to work until 65, that's a given.
If that is what the majority want to do, then fair play to them.
I am part of the majority that don't fancy it; and that's that.

George Michael

poa wrote: »

In the UK one has to sign on every 2 weeks and the dole is (over 25) £73.10 (93 Euro) pr week.
One has to sign on every 2 weeks, and produce a booklet detailing efforts to seek work; jobs applied for, interviews attended etc. A job advisor checks this when signing on.
Here we sign on 12 days per year, and no checks are done at all; and of course the dole is 188 not 93 per week.
Don't blame the dole head for taking the path of least resistance. The state made a systems that is easy to exploit, and so it is.
Do I feel guilt for doing so? None. Yes, I worked and paid my taxes; moaned about the dole spongers etc. And now I am one of them, so the boot is on the other foot.
I see it from both sides, worker and sponger; and on balance I prefer the latter lifestyle.
I am not here to judge or justify the rights and wrongs of the worker v sponger life.
I just live my life the way that makes me most happy.
I tried working for 20 years, and was unhappy. Now I have my freedom and I am happier.
Should I feel some guilt? Maybe, maybe not. But one cannot make a man feel an emotion he just doesn't feel.
The truth is, I am apathetic about it all. I really don't care if a man works or sponges; that is their choice.
Would I care more if my dole was cut, and more pressure applied to get work? Yes, of course. Maybe it works better in the UK like that as there is lower unemployment.
But its hard to say, as we are 4.6 million compared to the UK's 66 million.
In any case, right or wrong; I can live OK on 188 per week with no mortgage to pay.
So I don't complain (unlike the workers).
One has to do what makes one happiest in life. I had a taste of working hard and earning big money, and being stressed, but I don't want that any more.
500 per week v 188 per week, unhappy V happy; these are the choices a man makes.
So what are my plans?
I am 39 now, and will live off my dole and savings well for the next 10-15 years.
Then my parents will be 80-85 and most likely pass. So I will live off their inheritance for the remainder of my life.
Do I feel guilt I never had kids or a mortgage? No. Feel guilt I didn't contribute to taxes and society more? No.
I feel good I chose to call it a day at 38 when I did. I don't expect others to see it my way.
Each to their own.

interesting post. i am too am unemployed. i am looking for work though. the boredom kills me. i would like to have something to do, even its only part time.

i completely understand your point about being happy. i worked before in a job that was really stressful. it wasnt worth the money IMO. on the dole i am comfortable, just bored.

by the looks of it (unless it drastically picks up) i will be on the dole for a while. im sending off CVs every day and hearing nothing back. ive given up at this stage. a friend immigrated to canada and walked into a job straight away. no interview or nothing needed.

Chiorino

poa wrote: »

The truth is I feel apathetic about whether a man works or sponges.
What the majority opinion is, matters not to me. What the minority opinion is, matters not to me either.
I realised in life, one can rage about these things or not give a fk. And either way it won't change a thing, it's just an opinion.
OK the majority agree, or disagree; big deal. There will always be workers, and always be spongers no matter what the opinion.
Do I feel good about it? I feel neither good nor bad. No guilt anyway.
I do feel happier on the dole then when I was working, I am sure of that. I don't feel I need to validate my feeling by backing it up with a majority seal of approval.
I tried both, working and sponging; and on balance prefer not working.
5.30am wake up V 10.00am wake up. Things like that.
Yesterday I could have been in an office for 8 hours, but I was on my sunlounger in the sun. These are the choices in life a man makes.
OK I don't have a mortgage or kids, so the pressure is less than some. But again, they were my choices in life.
I didn't decide to fall in with the righteous majority and marry with 2 kids and a Celtic Tiger mortgage. I worked for 20 years, saved, and didn't have kids.
And now at 39 I am done with work.
If I had kids and a mortgage I would have to work until 65, that's a given.
If that is what the majority want to do, then fair play to them.
I am part of the majority that don't fancy it; and that's that.

So what you're saying is that because of your lifestyle choice, close to €10k a year should be diverted from any of the many more worthwhile causes that taxpayer funding goes towards.

I feel there isn't much point carrying on any more discussion as you obviously don't feel any guilt or shame about your choices and at the end of the day, if you can't see any wrong in what you're doing, some randomer on a website isn't going to change your mind.

As I've said before, I have no problem with the services provided being used a crutch to help people get bye in tough times or to better themselves both professionally and personally, that's why they are there, but a welfare system is not supposed to benefit a lifestyle choice.

poa

George Michael wrote: »

interesting post. i am too am unemployed. i am looking for work though. the boredom kills me. i would like to have something to do, even its only part time.

i completely understand your point about being happy. i worked before in a job that was really stressful. it wasnt worth the money IMO. on the dole i am comfortable, just bored.

by the looks of it (unless it drastically picks up) i will be on the dole for a while. im sending off CVs every day and hearing nothing back. ive given up at this stage. a friend immigrated to canada and walked into a job straight away. no interview or nothing needed.

I wish you the best of luck finding work.
Immigration is often the most viable option, especially for the younger Irish.
The thing is, people talk about this all like its a new thing. My parents couldn't get work in the 1960's so went to London, and got work.
Back then USA or UK were your options, now its Canada, UK, or Australia.
Plan B is wait on the dole and weather the storm until it passes and things pick up.
At 39 I am gone past worrying about it all. I worked through a recession before, and emigrated here in 2010 after the Celtic Tiger so missed it.
I could get a job if I wanted, but I don't. Its not even about the money, there just isn't a job out there I want to do 40 hours a week. I hate work if I am honest.
I don't get bored having the 40 hours per week free. I just do things I never had time for before; like swimming or DIY. All the jobs like servicing my car that I used to have to pay for.
All things considered I am better off on the dole than when I worked. 50 Euro to see a GP and medical insurance. Now I have a medical card etc.
One has to weigh it all up. For the married man with kids, working makes sense to pay that mortgage and leave ones kids something.
But for the single man, one is better off on the dole.

poa

Chiorino wrote: »

So what you're saying is that because of your lifestyle choice, close to €10k a year should be diverted from any of the many more worthwhile causes that taxpayer funding goes towards.

I feel there isn't much point carrying on any more discussion as you obviously don't feel any guilt or shame about your choices and at the end of the day, if you can't see any wrong in what you're doing, some randomer on a website isn't going to change your mind.

As I've said before, I have no problem with the services provided being used a crutch to help people get bye in tough times or to better themselves both professionally and personally, that's why they are there, but a welfare system is not supposed to benefit a lifestyle choice.

Don't knock it until you have tried it.
You never know, you may like it?
I was sceptical myself, but now I have got used to waking up at 10.00am.
Each to their own though.

eviltwin

poa wrote: »

I wish you the best of luck finding work.
Immigration is often the most viable option, especially for the younger Irish.
The thing is, people talk about this all like its a new thing. My parents couldn't get work in the 1960's so went to London, and got work.
Back then USA or UK were your options, now its Canada, UK, or Australia.
Plan B is wait on the dole and weather the storm until it passes and things pick up.
At 39 I am gone past worrying about it all. I worked through a recession before, and emigrated here in 2010 after the Celtic Tiger so missed it.
I could get a job if I wanted, but I don't. Its not even about the money, there just isn't a job out there I want to do 40 hours a week. I hate work if I am honest.
I don't get bored having the 40 hours per week free. I just do things I never had time for before; like swimming or DIY. All the jobs like servicing my car that I used to have to pay for.
All things considered I am better off on the dole than when I worked. 50 Euro to see a GP and medical insurance. Now I have a medical card etc.
One has to weigh it all up. For the married man with kids, working makes sense to pay that mortgage and leave ones kids something.
But for the single man, one is better off on the dole.

You're the same age as me. I get what you are saying about having time to do stuff. When I worked full time I found I had no time for me and I suffered for it. I work part time now so I have time for myself. I guess if you are doing better on the dole financially than you were when you were working it makes sense but I find it depressing that someone in their prime who probably has useful skills to offer won't work or at the very least use their free time to volunteer or give something back to society.

FizzleSticks

This post has been deleted.

poa

eviltwin wrote: »

You're the same age as me. I get what you are saying about having time to do stuff. When I worked full time I found I had no time for me and I suffered for it. I work part time now so I have time for myself. I guess if you are doing better on the dole financially than you were when you were working it makes sense but I find it depressing that someone in their prime who probably has useful skills to offer won't work or at the very least use their free time to volunteer or give something back to society.

Agreed.
I was paying 40% tax on my earnings, so the truth is I am better off on the dole.
If you read my other posts you will see I volunteer for a hospice.
I didn't have time when I worked, but do now.
I do get bored sometimes, but I also like having the freedom to do things.
When I worked I had money, but no time to spend it.
I found myself binge drinking with the lads at the weekends as my pressure relief valve, and sleeping all day Sunday hungover.
It wasn't healthy, so I gave it all up. Now I go for a swim Sundays.
Being on the dole really is better for one's health.

Ush1

poa wrote: »

Agreed.
I was paying 40% tax on my earnings, so the truth is I am better off on the dole.
If you read my other posts you will see I volunteer for a hospice.
I didn't have time when I worked, but do now.
I do get bored sometimes, but I also like having the freedom to do things.
When I worked I had money, but no time to spend it.
I found myself binge drinking with the lads at the weekends as my pressure relief valve, and sleeping all day Sunday hungover.
It wasn't healthy, so I gave it all up. Now I go for a swim Sundays.
Being on the dole really is better for one's health.

The HSEs new tagline.

maudgonner

poa wrote: »

Agreed.
I was paying 40% tax on my earnings, so the truth is I am better off on the dole.
If you read my other posts you will see I volunteer for a hospice.
I didn't have time when I worked, but do now.
I do get bored sometimes, but I also like having the freedom to do things.
When I worked I had money, but no time to spend it.
I found myself binge drinking with the lads at the weekends as my pressure relief valve, and sleeping all day Sunday hungover.
It wasn't healthy, so I gave it all up. Now I go for a swim Sundays.
Being on the dole really is better for one's health.

As I said above, I have no problem with your lifestyle choice. The only issue is that you're asking other people to pay for it. You expect other people to go out and work to fund you - you want them to do exactly what you aren't prepared to do.

Find a way to fund yourself and I'd applaud you.

George Michael

poa wrote: »

Agreed.
I was paying 40% tax on my earnings, so the truth is I am better off on the dole.
If you read my other posts you will see I volunteer for a hospice.
I didn't have time when I worked, but do now.
I do get bored sometimes, but I also like having the freedom to do things.
When I worked I had money, but no time to spend it.
I found myself binge drinking with the lads at the weekends as my pressure relief valve, and sleeping all day Sunday hungover.
It wasn't healthy, so I gave it all up. Now I go for a swim Sundays.
Being on the dole really is better for one's health.

"The Dalai Lama, when asked what surprised him most about humanity, answered "Man.... Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."

- The Dalai Lama

i think (although other posters will disagree) that you are making a lot of sense. people talk about contributing to society, but you have to enjoy the mechanism by which you contribute to society.

the evasion_kid

poa wrote: »

Agreed.
I was paying 40% tax on my earnings, so the truth is I am better off on the dole.
If you read my other posts you will see I volunteer for a hospice.
I didn't have time when I worked, but do now.
I do get bored sometimes, but I also like having the freedom to do things.
When I worked I had money, but no time to spend it.
I found myself binge drinking with the lads at the weekends as my pressure relief valve, and sleeping all day Sunday hungover.
It wasn't healthy, so I gave it all up. Now I go for a swim Sundays.
Being on the dole really is better for one's health.

You should pick up a book called "enjoy the decline"...

poa

the evasion_kid wrote: »

You should pick up a book called "enjoy the decline"...

I can recommend one called; Other People's Money.

MacauDragon

poa wrote: »

Agreed.
I was paying 40% tax on my earnings, so the truth is I am better off on the dole.
If you read my other posts you will see I volunteer for a hospice.
I didn't have time when I worked, but do now.
I do get bored sometimes, but I also like having the freedom to do things.
When I worked I had money, but no time to spend it.
I found myself binge drinking with the lads at the weekends as my pressure relief valve, and sleeping all day Sunday hungover.
It wasn't healthy, so I gave it all up. Now I go for a swim Sundays.
Being on the dole really is better for one's health.

40% over 20 years. You're clearly spending only a fraction of what you paid in at this stage. Listen to no criticism for now.

Mesrine65

poa wrote: »

I can recommend one called; Other People's Money.

You're starting to sound like one who dwells under a bridge at this point...

maudgonner

MacauDragon wrote: »

40% over 20 years. You're clearly spending only a fraction of what you paid in at this stage. Listen to no criticism for now.

Actually the poster revealed that he moved here in 2010, so over 6 years or so, presumably.

And I doubt highly he was paying 40% of his total income in tax, since 40% is the higher tax rate. He would only have paid 40% on a small proportion of his income.

But let's not let pesky figures get in the way of our logic, eh Macau?

MacauDragon

maudgonner wrote: »

Actually the poster revealed that he moved here in 2010, so over 6 years or so, presumably.

And I doubt highly he was paying 40% of his total income in tax, since 40% is the higher tax rate. He would only have paid 40% on a small proportion of his income.

But let's not let pesky figures get in the way of our logic, eh Macau?

Do you know what he was paying those six years.


Exactly.


So what do you need to do.


Exactly.

poa

MacauDragon wrote: »

40% over 20 years. You're clearly spending only a fraction of what you paid in at this stage. Listen to no criticism. Enjoy withdrawing the money you earned.

The way I see it is this, people often think only workers taxes pay for social welfare.
The unemployed still pay VAT, tax on fuel, etc. When I bought my apartment I paid stamp duty. I pay my household charge etc. There is tax on most things these days, stealth tax or overtly we pay it as money is recycled in the economy.
I pay the same tax on my petrol working or not. Yes income tax brings in some money, but so does VAT and VRT etc. Just because I don't work, doesn't mean I have also stopped paying car tax and the same taxes as the working man.
My 188 dole gets spent, and that money moves around the economy. So its not like the dole head just keeps the money and its lost.
Jobs come and go, just like relationships, money; everything else. I am not bothered or hung up on more tax makes a man a better one. I volunteer for my local hospice, and that is my way of contributing to society. I don't think working and paying tax is the only way to do so.
My father thinks dole heads are scum. He worked from 15 to 65, and never had a day off sick, never claimed dole. Always paid his taxes etc. He thinks he is a great man.
But when he retired at 65 his health was fked. And now he can't enjoy the time he has left; probably from 65 to 80 realistically. So he worked all that time for what? 15 years of bad health left, money in bank, a clear conscience he paid his tax fair and square.
I think my freedom and health is worth more, but that's just me.
I could work until 65, but I have no motivation to do so. I think most of that comes from not having kids to leave anything to.
My apartment is bought and paid for, but I have no one to leave it to? I haven't figured out what to do with it to be honest.
So I see the idea of working for another 26 years as pointless. I just wouldn't get the feel good factor of contributing my fair share to society in tax. I don't care about paying tax to the state.
What I do care about is me. Having a lie in, and getting up when I want. Selfish? Yes. I make no bones about it.
At the end of the day, if you don't look after your mental health and happiness, then no one else is going to. I did all the hard work for 20 years and no one thanked me for it.
When I left my job, I got a card and 50 Euro oneforall gift voucher. You are just a number at the end of the day.
My father worked for a firm for 30 years straight. From an apprentice to managing director. And at the end of it all, they gave him a gold Seiko watch worth around £200.
Since he retired it sits on the windowsill in the kitchen as he doesn't need to know what time it is anymore.
So I thought about all that, and thought I am not working until I am 65 and paying tax for what? A £200 gold watch. No thanks.
As I have said before, I don't see it as I paid 20 years tax into the system, and now I am milking my 20 years dole back off the system.
I just see it as the dole is there to be taken, so I will, thanks.
I did all the moaning about the dole heads when I was working and paid 40% tax; so I am done with it, as I realise all my opinions count for nothing.
If you can't beat them, then join them. The other option is to call Joe Duffy and moan some more I suppose.
Cutting dole isn't the answer, creating more jobs is. If the jobs aren't there, then people with either emigrate or go on the dole. That's that.
There will be some like me who can work, but just don't want to. That's that.
Workers V spongers can argue ad infinitum about who is right/wrong, but nothing changes so its pointless.

ToddyDoody

But what is work?, if you get me

MacauDragon

ToddyDoody wrote: »

But what is work?, if you get me

Energy spent on bringing about a planned future reality/reward.

ToddyDoody

MacauDragon wrote: »

Energy spent on bringing about a planned future reality/reward.

which can be good, bad, big, small?

KomradeBishop

FizzleSticks wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well, it helps people develop skills and train for the role they want? Jobs for everyone doesn't mean no choice in the direction that goes, and would mean supplementary development of skills.

poa

Ush1 wrote: »

The HSEs new tagline.

Well it's true.
I can't afford the drinking and cocaine binges I went on when I worked so gave them up.
Now it's just the odd joint and a mug of tea listening to some chill out music.
I worked hard, played hard, and didn't get enough sleep.
Now I am looking after my health better; less stress, better diet, better sleep.
I took up running once a week, swim monthly, and turbo train 20 minutes every other day.
I didn't do any of that when I worked. I ate out most nights, and drank too much.
The thing is, when one is around others that do the same its easy to feel its normal behaviour. It wasn't like I had a wife and kids to go home to, so I suppose I filled the vacuum in my life with excess and binging.
Fast cars and fine watches were my real vices. I got rid of the car, but still have the watch collection. Some old habits die hard. Giving up binging on drink and cocaine is one thing, but selling my Submariner will never happen dole or no dole.

poa

ToddyDoody wrote: »

But what is work?, if you get me

Selling 40 hours per week of one's freedom for money.

Dole can be defined as 188 Euro for a zero hour working week.

the evasion_kid

poa wrote: »

Selling 40 hours per week of one's freedom for money.

Dole can be defined as 188 Euro for a zero hour working week.

Selling 40 hours of the most valuable thing you have on this planet...time

KomradeBishop

It's funny in a way, looking at people bashing an insignificant resource drain on the countries money (and before anyone tries it: the whole social welfare fund is not made up of scroungers, so can't be stated as representative of this poster) - yet many of the same people are blind to the way that allowing the wealthy and corporations to avoid taxes, effectively removes a hell of a lot more money from government coffers than this one person.

When a wealthy person goes on about taking taxes from the state, in the form of avoidance or lobbying for tax reductions - it's viewed as legitimate - when a person scrounging on the dole causing many-orders-of-magnitude less of a problem to society/politics than the former, takes taxes, it's deserving of the most grievous moral judgement.

Peoples moral priorities on issues like this are all fúcked up.

It's funny that it takes an actual (not the usual imaginary caricature, but a real/actual) dole scrounger, to come along on Boards, to help highlight this.
The 'imaginary'/caricature version of the scrounger in threads like this, usually solicits a much more thorough morally righteous lashing as well, which is also ironic/funny.

fin12

I can't believe people on here feeling like they owe society, what has society ever done for anybody? All it's ever done to me is make me feel like crap about myself knowing that I haven't meet societies expectations and believe me I've tried and continue to.

poa

Another lovely day for the A4 convertible. I think I will drive down to Tesco for some Prosecco and burgers for the barbeque.
Then it's a hard day on the sunlounger minding the barbeque. Work? I think I will pass. Live is for living man.
On days like today, wild horses couldn't drag me into an office, 8 hours staring at a computer screen; under a strip light, with sterile conversations. Do what makes you happiest in life is what I say. Guilt for sponging off the state? Not on my (barbeque) watch.

eviltwin

poa wrote: »

Another lovely day for the A4 convertible. I think I will drive down to Tesco for some Prosecco and burgers for the barbeque.
Then it's a hard day on the sunlounger minding the barbeque. Work? I think I will pass. Live is for living man.
On days like today, wild horses couldn't drag me into an office, 8 hours staring at a computer screen; under a strip light, with sterile conversations. Do what makes you happiest in life is what I say. Guilt for sponging off the state? Not on my (barbeque) watch.

The more I read your posts I wonder was the issue work in general or just the job you had.

I'm in work at the moment, taking a five minute break to write this before I go back and do some more, I am snowed under today but you know I don't mind..I feel energised and excited and motivated. I wouldn't feel that way in every job but I love what I am doing now, I'm making a difference, I go home every day feeling great that I helped someone and gave them a bit of hope.

Don't get me wrong, when its roasting out I'll be jealous you're out enjoying the sun but I'll get back to what I do and feel good about it. If the job was gone tomorrow I'd miss it massively. Maybe you just need to find some part time work in an area that you are passionate about and then you can have the best of both worlds.

poa

fin12 wrote: »

I can't believe people on here feeling like they owe society, what has society ever done for anybody? All it's ever done to me is make me feel like crap about myself knowing that I haven't meet societies expectations and believe me I've tried and continue to.

Agreed. Its just the culture, morals, and values, our parents tried to breed into us. Catholic guilt. One has to be respectable, attend mass, hold down a steady job, marry and have 2 kids. Be a good little soldier and pay ones taxes fair and square. Any round pegs that don't want to be hammered into the square holes are made to feel outcasts. Spongers on the state, the shame of it. Well I am proud of my choices, being a square peg. Society? Is that where I work and pay tax to the man, or he makes me feel bad if I don't? I will pass on that.
I spent years living up to my parents, friends, societies, expectations. Working, buying a home, getting a masters, getting a career job, being the good boy. Did it make me happy falling in with the rest? No.
Now I get up when I want, do what I want, and have my freedom. Less money, but more happiness. I care less about what society wants from I, and more about what I want.
Society gives you nothing, you have to go out and take it with both hands. I feel no guilt in my way of life, its better than living a lie to make others happy living their way.
I have many faults, but I am no fake or fraud.
My parents and previous employer wouldn't approve of me on the dole minding the barbeque from the sunlounger this afternoon. Fk them.