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New Building Control Regs

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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,202 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    kceire wrote: »
    Possibly but some circumstances leave no option. Business closing, death etc
    That's the reason for the AC change procedure in place.
    Absolutely the option needs to be there but in this case, an unexplained stop of communication and services from a business who took AC role is very poor form.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,165 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    mickdw wrote: »
    Absolutely the option needs to be there but in this case, an unexplained stop of communication and services from a business who took AC role is very poor form.

    100% agree.mweve had cases where the AC has stepped down. And we contact the previous AC to ask them if they have certified and up to what point. Some have told us that the clients would not pay fees due or disagreed with the amount of compliance they had to adhere to!


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,202 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    kceire wrote: »
    100% agree.mweve had cases where the AC has stepped down. And we contact the previous AC to ask them if they have certified and up to what point. Some have told us that the clients would not pay fees due or disagreed with the amount of compliance they had to adhere to!

    Oh I'm all too familiar with that in my work prior to this regime.
    I've fallen out with alot of clients.
    One couple who wanted an initial spec far in excess of the requirements of part L came near the end of the project and after spending way over the top on kitchen and other random fit out got thick with me when I wouldnt issue final certification even though they had no central heating burner installed, no renewable, hrv piped but no hrv unit installed. No ventilation otherwise to the habitable space and they moved in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 maggi


    kceire wrote: »
    Absolutely you cannot opt out at this stage, and rightly so.
    You need to engage a new AC and notify the Building Control Authority that the AC is changing. There's a specific form to use. We get a good few AC changes here in Dublin. Pretty straight forward procedure.


    Thanks for your reply, I have a copy of the relevant form & will use as soon as we find a new AC. If ye get a good few changes of AC in Dublin it means it's possible so, anyone we have phoned so far say they don't have insurance to step in mid build. Was starting to think it wasn't possible, good to hear it is, thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 31 ArtieBucco


    Hello,
    Sorry if this is the wrong place for posting, my question is as follows;

    i am preparing an application for planning permission, the development consists of an extension (small utility & sunroom) to the rear of our house. have all drawings prepared by a local draughtsman.

    due to the BCAR regulations, what are the steps involved after planning permission (if granted)?

    cheers


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,202 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    ArtieBucco wrote: »
    Hello,
    Sorry if this is the wrong place for posting, my question is as follows;

    i am preparing an application for planning permission, the development consists of an extension (small utility & sunroom) to the rear of our house. have all drawings prepared by a local draughtsman.

    due to the BCAR regulations, what are the steps involved after planning permission (if granted)?

    cheers

    If it's under 40 sqm, you send in commencement without documents and that is it in terms of dealing with building control. All regs apply as they have done for numerous years but you are not bound to have a supervising professional.
    If over 40 sqm, you can go for the full service AC / DC or you can exempt yourself. If you go the exemption route, you will have to send in commencement this time with design drawings showing how you will comply with regs - proper building drawings and details of part L compliance but kceire might come along and say what is being accepted in terms of detail.
    If you go full service, you will have full supervision and be tied into having completion certification lodged with council etc.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,165 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    ArtieBucco wrote: »
    Hello,
    Sorry if this is the wrong place for posting, my question is as follows;

    i am preparing an application for planning permission, the development consists of an extension (small utility & sunroom) to the rear of our house. have all drawings prepared by a local draughtsman.

    due to the BCAR regulations, what are the steps involved after planning permission (if granted)?

    cheers
    mickdw wrote: »
    If it's under 40 sqm, you send in commencement without documents and that is it in terms of dealing with building control. All regs apply as they have done for numerous years but you are not bound to have a supervising professional.
    If over 40 sqm, you can go for the full service AC / DC or you can exempt yourself. If you go the exemption route, you will have to send in commencement this time with design drawings showing how you will comply with regs - proper building drawings and details of part L compliance but kceire might come along and say what is being accepted in terms of detail.
    If you go full service, you will have full supervision and be tied into having completion certification lodged with council etc.

    I'll put a detailed response here in the morning with links etc
    We have a draft email response pre made for these questions in work ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 31 ArtieBucco


    Thank you mickdw & kceire for your replies!

    the drawings have a general specification for walls, roofs etc.

    do the drawings still need checking/certified if we take the exempt route at commencement stage, also are stage payments and inspections required during construction?

    again thanks very much!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,165 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Please see the attached instructions on how to lodge an "Opt-Out" Commencement Notice.

    Please read them carefully before lodging your Notice.

    As part of the process, you are required to complete and upload two extra documents, a "Declaration of Intent to Opt Out of Statutory Certification" and an "Assignment of Builder form".

    These should be downloaded from the BCMS site when creating the Notice online, but if you are unable to do so due to technical difficulties, we have attached copies of the templates from the Statutory Regulations, which we will accept if they are completed by pen and uploaded.

    Regards,


  • Subscribers Posts: 40,729 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    as an addition to the above

    1. the applicant must create a new account with BCMS
    2. in the "my details" tab under the "qualifications" tab they must select 'other' and type in "OPT OUT"
    3. they must then create a "new application" as described in the document above.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,165 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    as an addition to the above

    1. the applicant must create a new account with BCMS
    2. in the "my details" tab under the "qualifications" tab they must select 'other' and type in "OPT OUT"
    3. they must then create a "new application" as described in the document above.

    +1

    Also, the title of an opt out project should be : OPT OUT 1 Main Street, Dublin 1


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    mickdw wrote: »
    If you go the exemption route, you will have to send in commencement this time with design drawings showing how you will comply with regs - proper building drawings and details of part L compliance .

    Just to note you don't need that for commencement notices in Cork. There are different requirements in different parts of the country it seems.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,165 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Just to note you don't need that for commencement notices in Cork. There are different requirements in different parts of the country it seems.

    Here in Dublin, the following will suffice :
    1. GA Drawing
    2. Commencement Notice Form
    3. Notice of Assignment (Builder)
    4. Declaration of Opt out Certificate


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,202 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    kceire wrote: »
    Here in Dublin, the following will suffice :
    1. GA Drawing
    2. Commencement Notice Form
    3. Notice of Assignment (Builder)
    4. Declaration of Opt out Certificate

    So are people basically lodging planning drawings?


  • Registered Users Posts: 31 ArtieBucco


    @kceire, sydthebeat & stickybookmark, many thanks for your replies. thank you for the attachments provided.

    starting to get the idea now, seems straight forward enough.

    in regards to "mickdw" last post "So are people basically lodging planning drawings?", thats the part im kinda confused on. our drawings have been detailed to a good standard for planning and for construction. its a sunroom and small utility extension, the reason it is going for planing is because there was a previous extension added when we bought the house, which was exempt. with the new sunroom the floor area is above the 40sqm allowed.

    so as mickwdw asks, do planning drawings suffice? will i need a new set of drawings at commencement stage and a detailed specification? in regards to Part L, we have BER cert, new stoves etc....

    cheers!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,202 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    ArtieBucco wrote: »
    @kceire, sydthebeat & stickybookmark, many thanks for your replies. thank you for the attachments provided.

    starting to get the idea now, seems straight forward enough.

    in regards to "mickdw" last post "So are people basically lodging planning drawings?", thats the part im kinda confused on. our drawings have been detailed to a good standard for planning and for construction. its a sunroom and small utility extension, the reason it is going for planing is because there was a previous extension added when we bought the house, which was exempt. with the new sunroom the floor area is above the 40sqm allowed.

    so as mickwdw asks, do planning drawings suffice? will i need a new set of drawings at commencement stage and a detailed specification? in regards to Part L, we have BER cert, new stoves etc....

    cheers!!

    There is no way planning drawings should be adequate but as Im said Im interested to know if that is what people are getting away with. Just to add, if basic details re Part L compliance are not being sought, it is not clear to me how you can even start detailing a build.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,165 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    mickdw wrote: »
    So are people basically lodging planning drawings?

    In some cases, yes. We haven't got the man power to check every notice lodged unfortunately.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,165 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    ArtieBucco wrote: »
    @kceire, sydthebeat & stickybookmark, many thanks for your replies. thank you for the attachments provided.

    starting to get the idea now, seems straight forward enough.

    in regards to "mickdw" last post "So are people basically lodging planning drawings?", thats the part im kinda confused on. our drawings have been detailed to a good standard for planning and for construction. its a sunroom and small utility extension, the reason it is going for planing is because there was a previous extension added when we bought the house, which was exempt. with the new sunroom the floor area is above the 40sqm allowed.

    so as mickwdw asks, do planning drawings suffice? will i need a new set of drawings at commencement stage and a detailed specification? in regards to Part L, we have BER cert, new stoves etc....

    cheers!!

    Technically they are not acceptable. If your house is selected for inspection, Building Control will request full working drawings from you and you would then have to get them prepared.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    ArtieBucco wrote: »
    @kceire, sydthebeat & stickybookmark, many thanks for your replies. thank you for the attachments provided.

    starting to get the idea now, seems straight forward enough.

    in regards to "mickdw" last post "So are people basically lodging planning drawings?", thats the part im kinda confused on. our drawings have been detailed to a good standard for planning and for construction. its a sunroom and small utility extension, the reason it is going for planing is because there was a previous extension added when we bought the house, which was exempt. with the new sunroom the floor area is above the 40sqm allowed.

    so as mickwdw asks, do planning drawings suffice? will i need a new set of drawings at commencement stage and a detailed specification? in regards to Part L, we have BER cert, new stoves etc....

    cheers!!

    To be honest Artie, now that the Opt Out option is there, the BCMS is the least of your worries. I got the impression the drawings aren't even checked. It's finnicky in that all the ts have to be crossed and is dotted. If there's a siganture missing, if the title on one doc doesn't match the title on another....those are the kinds of things that gets it rejected. So it is tricky lodging the commencment notice, but nothing to do with technical detail on the drawings, more to do with small mistakes which can lead it to be rejected. My engineer helped me with mine as he was experienced with the system. Even with his help, my first one was rejected coz I forgot to sign one page

    I think I'd be more concerned about having decent drawings for whoever's building it, not the bcms


  • Registered Users Posts: 31 ArtieBucco


    Thanks for all the replies,

    @stickybookmark thanks for the heads up regarding filling in the commencement notice, would it be possible to do a trial run before lodging, i.e downloading forms and maybe getting Building control to have a glance before submission? just a thought..

    @mickdw, thanks for your reply, i understand what your getting at regarding drawings. the drawings i have are more spec, than detailed, and to be honest probably a cut n paste job! have arch tech to do working drawings now.

    will let you guys know how i get on! cheers


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    ArtieBucco wrote: »
    Thanks for all the replies,

    @stickybookmark thanks for the heads up regarding filling in the commencement notice, would it be possible to do a trial run before lodging, i.e downloading forms and maybe getting Building control to have a glance before submission? just a thought..
    I doubt they have the resources for that.
    When my BIL was filling his one out I just gave him my password and login for BCMS so he could have an example of a successful (i.e correctly filled out one) at hand to use as a template when he was doing his own.


  • Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭patg


    I am trying to get an understanding of what will be required in relation to a side extension build (2 storey - likely >40sqm).
    I understand the project will need planning permission due to exceeeding size limitation and also being road facing.

    I have spoken to 2 architects and prices quoted by both are way more than we anticipated. However I'm surprised that there are substantial fees included by one for BCMS work - on the basis this is compulsory, whereas the other has no BCMS mention and relatively modest inspection/certification fees...

    Am I correct in thinking we can opt in/opt out of BCMS?
    What are the implications of opting out of BCMS (apart from making mortgage/lending more problematic)?
    What is the difference in the service that can be offered by an architect and an architect technician - I believe the technician can't sign off, but it seems that even architects would need to refer most certs to an engineer for sign off - so little difference there?

    If opt in/opt out is optional - is there a standard option generally chosen by homeowners for extensions?

    Thanks in advance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    patg wrote: »

    Am I correct in thinking we can opt in/opt out of BCMS?
    BCMS refers to the online system where you file your commencement notice that you're going building and it gets accepted by the local authority. No you cannot 'opt out' of it - you'll have to file a commencement notice. It is a bit tricky if you've never done it before and if possible it's easier to get the architect/technican/engineer to do it for you. However it'll take them 1-2 hours of work tops. So this should only be a small token charge
    What are the implications of opting out of BCMS (apart from making mortgage/lending more problematic)?
    What you can opt out of is having an Assigned certifier. This was something that people building between March 2014 and September 2015 had to have. They reversed the decision and now you don't have to have it anymore.One less hassle for you to worry about in building your extension.

    What is the difference in the service that can be offered by an architect and an architect technician - I believe the technician can't sign off, but it seems that even architects would need to refer most certs to an engineer for sign off - so little difference there?
    Assuming you opt out the only sign-offs you'll need are for the bank (each stage will have to be signed off for them to relese the mortgage installments) for Homebond insurance, and at the end someone to give you a letter stating that the house complies with planning (and regulations...I think but double check that one). Not sure if that person has to be an architect, as far as i know both jobs can be done by an arch tech? I think it was only the Assigned certifier role that had to be done by an architect and couldn't be done by an arch tech

    If opt in/opt out is optional - is there a standard option generally chosen by homeowners for extensions?
    Opt out is only there since September 2015 I'd assume the vast majority of people that can opt out, do - for all types of builds.
    Thanks in advance.

    s


  • Registered Users Posts: 22 Duke77


    Hi,

    Can anyone tell me at what stages an assigned certifier will inspect on a commercial development? i.e at what stages he/she will come out to site?

    Thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭Metric Tensor


    He/she will have prepared an inspection plan at the start of the project listing the visits they plan to carry out. The builder should have a copy so he knows when to call them.

    They might come out more often though depending on how the project is progressing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭lfen


    Hi all, firstly if I am in the wrong thread feel free to kick me out!

    Our in laws have a large 4 bed house with a single story garage conversion to the side. We wanted to know if, building another floor onto the top of the single story conversion and splitting the house into 2 houses would be an option.

    I understand that for an absolute/definite answer we would need to consult with an architect, apply for planning etc. but again, just trying to get an idea of it this is something that is possible.

    TIA


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,165 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    lfen wrote: »
    Hi all, firstly if I am in the wrong thread feel free to kick me out!

    Our in laws have a large 4 bed house with a single story garage conversion to the side. We wanted to know if, building another floor onto the top of the single story conversion and splitting the house into 2 houses would be an option.

    I understand that for an absolute/definite answer we would need to consult with an architect, apply for planning etc. but again, just trying to get an idea of it this is something that is possible.

    TIA

    Yes its possible subject to planning and then structural design.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,141 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    kceire wrote: »
    Yes its possible subject to planning and then structural design.
    +1
    then what about separate entrances/back gardens etc
    water/esb/gas/etc meters

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,165 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    +1
    then what about separate entrances/back gardens etc
    water/esb/gas/etc meters

    I ran with the assumption that this was an extension to the main dwelling as the OP never mentioned anything about a new dwelling.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,141 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    kceire wrote: »
    I ran with the assumption that this was an extension to the main dwelling as the OP never mentioned anything about a new dwelling.

    No worries: I saw this: and splitting the house into 2 houses:)

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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