New Building Control Regs

Poor Uncle Tom · 18-08-2015 10:39PM

stickybookmark wrote: »

Apparently not...

I did say....

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

If it's a new house your solicitor will need certification to register title of your property,

S.I 483 of 2012 (2)

Part 3 section 15 (1) (b)

It is my experience that when referring to a dwelling house the legal opinions referred to will not be issued by the solicitors until they have the required assurances include the Certificate of Compliance with planning permissions and Building Regulations being discussed here.

You may be mixing up the knock-on chain of certification.

stickybookmark · 18-08-2015 10:49PM

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

I did say....

S.I 483 of 2012 (2)

Part 3 section 15 (1) (b)

It is my experience that when referring to a dwelling house the legal opinions referred to will not be issued by the solicitors until they have the required assurances include the Certificate of Compliance with planning permissions and Building Regulations being discussed here.

You may be mixing up the knock-on chain of certification.

Are you sure that when registering a new build with the Land registry that a solicitor has to be involved at all (if no mortgage)?

Poor Uncle Tom · 18-08-2015 11:00PM

stickybookmark wrote: »

Are you sure that when registering a new build with the Land registry that a solicitor has to be involved at all (if no mortgage)?

A solicitor does not have to be involved, however they usually are and (again in my experience) where a bank is involved in loaning funds for the purchase of property they will insist that a solicitor is involved.

Poor Uncle Tom · 19-08-2015 07:01PM

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

A solicitor does not have to be involved, however they usually are and (again in my experience) where a bank is involved in loaning funds for the purchase of property they will insist that a solicitor is involved.

Just to clarify, a solicitor does not have to carry out the registration application, however as part of the process legal opinions are required which has to be carried out by either a solicitor or a barrister, therefore a solicitor does not have to be involved, but either a solicitor or barrister has to be involved.

S.I 483 of 2012 is very clear on this.

theirishlad · 17-09-2015 11:50AM

As off the 1st of September you can opt out of having a assigned certifier. U must opt out at commencement notice stage.
Some people say u should get it certified but just to let yas know u can opt out, not getting into if u should or shouldn't

sydthebeat · 17-09-2015 11:59AM

theirishlad wrote: »

As off the 1st of September you can opt out of having a assigned certifier. U must opt out at commencement notice stage.
Some people say u should get it certified but just to let yas know u can opt out, not getting into if u should or shouldn't

the banks will still make you "get it certified" if youre using a mortgage to build

mickdw · 17-09-2015 12:12PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

the banks will still make you "get it certified" if youre using a mortgage to build

Are you saying the banks are insisting on assigned certifier or simply the old system of professional with indemnity cover supervising and issuing cert of compliance.
I not sure the banks are too aware tbh.
I'm involved in build currently that were commenced prior to march 14 and went for mortgage approval much later. All bank wanted was same certs signed and proof of indemnity insurance. I thought they may have been looking for assigned certifier as they were not to know commencement details at that stage.

stickybookmark · 17-09-2015 12:12PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

the banks will still make you "get it certified" if youre using a mortgage to build

Yeah but that's via the bank's own separate certification system - not via the BCMS AC system

sydthebeat · 17-09-2015 12:21PM

mickdw wrote: »

Are you saying the banks are insisting on assigned certifier or simply the old system of professional with indemnity cover supervising and issuing cert of compliance.
I not sure the banks are too aware tbh.
I'm involved in build currently that were commenced prior to march 14 and went for mortgage approval much later. All bank wanted was same certs signed and proof of indemnity insurance. I thought they may have been looking for assigned certifier as they were not to know commencement details at that stage.

no im not saying the banks will insist on the assigned certifier system, im just saying that you may not be able to choose not to "get it certified" if your using a mortgage.

theirishlad · 17-09-2015 12:21PM

Banks will not make u have assigned certifier NO...
They will still want certs to say work is done but they have wanted this for years and year. Assigned certifier is totally different and more expensive

Strolling Bones · 17-09-2015 12:30PM

The local authoritys will still seek design documents at Commencemt Notice.
That is new - compared with prior to SI 9 2014.
Exacty what this means in parctice remains to be seen.
Some may simply resubmit the planning drawings + BER certs calcs and see what happens.
Will LA's insist on more detailed techical working drawings and specifications ?
The new (realxed) regaulations provide for this.

Gumbo · 21-09-2015 01:27PM

Strolling Bones wrote: »

The local authoritys will still seek design documents at Commencemt Notice.
That is new - compared with prior to SI 9 2014.
Exacty what this means in parctice remains to be seen.
Some may simply resubmit the planning drawings + BER certs calcs and see what happens.
Will LA's insist on more detailed techical working drawings and specifications ?
The new (realxed) regaulations provide for this.

I will be.

Strolling Bones · 21-09-2015 02:01PM

kceire wrote: »

I will be.

thought so :cool:

gooner99 · 21-09-2015 02:07PM

kceire wrote: »

I will be.

Kceire. From what I've read you've been very thorough with building control and inspections. I wonder what the rest of the Country are doing. I see a couple of houses going up in my neck of the woods (started this Year) without any air-tightness measures and hole in the wall vents. That's only what I've seen and wouldn't be knowledgeable to say if other parts are being overlooked. So looks like it's may not be uniform everywhere.

galwaytt · 21-09-2015 02:23PM

gooner99 wrote: »

Kceire. From what I've read you've been very thorough with building control and inspections. I wonder what the rest of the Country are doing. I see a couple of houses going up in my neck of the woods (started this Year) without any air-tightness measures and hole in the wall vents. That's only what I've seen and wouldn't be knowledgeable to say if other parts are being overlooked. So looks like it's may not be uniform everywhere.

...it isn't even uniform within the same LA, never mind across several..........

mickdw · 21-09-2015 02:28PM

Yes even under the assigned certifier system as being operated, Im seeing first hand here in Mayo that self builders are STILL issuing drawings that can only be considered sketches to the trades for pricing with little by the way of additional detail showing up throughout the build. I would handle some work for a Blocklaying contractor and given that these projects would have foundations complete at the stage we see these drawings, it is clear that the Engineers involved only sit down and produce details when requested. I can therefore only assume that Building Control in Mayo are accepting very basic drawings at commencement stage - and thats under the full certification regime.

When you then consider that the same Building Control Authority were inspecting about 1 in 8 new builds since about 2008 where they would request building drawings, Provisional BER, Ventilation details, and Part M compliance details, it is difficult to see that the certification system would have made any difference to building practices.

The only difference I can see is a drop off in standards, less certifiers, covering more area with zero availability to visit site at any reasonable notice and poor attention to detail by the larger Engineering firms when dealing with housing.

Gumbo · 21-09-2015 02:52PM

gooner99 wrote: »

Kceire. From what I've read you've been very thorough with building control and inspections. I wonder what the rest of the Country are doing. I see a couple of houses going up in my neck of the woods (started this Year) without any air-tightness measures and hole in the wall vents. That's only what I've seen and wouldn't be knowledgeable to say if other parts are being overlooked. So looks like it's may not be uniform everywhere.

Obviously I cannot comment on other LA's but I do know that Dublin are leading the charge with regards to inspection procedures and how we do things. I know for a fact my inspection reports are being looked at by DOE heads and being used as examples.

But in fairness we are biggest and busiest BCA in the country so we have the scope to be the Guinea pigs even if we don't have the staff!

Gumbo · 21-09-2015 02:53PM

galwaytt wrote: »

...it isn't even uniform within the same LA, never mind across several..........

More info please.
By PM of you want

Fridayfun · 06-10-2015 07:42PM

Hi there. At bit clueless to all these building regulations. Looking at a house at the mo that's partially built, up as far as wall plate level. It's been left this way since 2009. Owner applied successfully for extension of planning permission. Do the new regulations apply to this house?

Gumbo · 06-10-2015 10:49PM

Fridayfun wrote: »

Hi there. At bit clueless to all these building regulations. Looking at a house at the mo that's partially built, up as far as wall plate level. It's been left this way since 2009. Owner applied successfully for extension of planning permission. Do the new regulations apply to this house?

Contact your local Building Control Inspector, if they have an existing Commencement Notice on file, they may allow continuation of this or they may ask you to re-submit. You will only get opinions here, and you will end up having to still call the Section to get an answer.

mevinbull · 26-10-2015 08:50AM

Some info if possible please
I have just being granted planning , during the planning process we thought we would have to budget in the build for an assigned certifier to satisfy the building legislation, now I see that we can opt out of this process but will a bank lend to us and will we be able to insure the house once finished ?

sydthebeat · 26-10-2015 09:33AM

mevinbull wrote: »

Some info if possible please
I have just being granted planning , during the planning process we thought we would have to budget in the build for an assigned certifier to satisfy the building legislation, now I see that we can opt out of this process but will a bank lend to us and will we be able to insure the house once finished ?

The banks will still insist on a professional inspecting the build. Basically were back to situation we were in pre 2014.

You will also however have to get building regulation compliant drawings and documents produced to be submitted with your commencement notice. Planning drawings will not do.

MizMix · 16-12-2015 10:49PM

Hi All, we were all set to build over a year ago but ended up at an board plenala. Finally through that process with planning and find out now we can opt out....however is it better to stick with it? We had already agreed a price with the arch we were happy with....I presume the advantages are stricter inspections/compliance and responsibility if something goes wrong? I'm not sure I see any reason to opt out aside from saving a small amount? I don't think builders here had really priced it into their quotes so they're not going to price it out as such if we opt out...

galwaytt · 17-12-2015 10:43AM

...to be honest, if the quotes are that old you're going to have to ask them to requote anyway to allow for current costs.

And if you're opting out of the DC/AC arrangement, just bear in mind, who's standing over the quality of what you get - the answer is : You.

If you're happy to inspect/sign off etc and assume 'quality control' - knock yourself out.

stickybookmark · 17-12-2015 12:31PM

MizMix wrote: »

Hi All, we were all set to build over a year ago but ended up at an board plenala. Finally through that process with planning and find out now we can opt out....however is it better to stick with it? We had already agreed a price with the arch we were happy with....I presume the advantages are stricter inspections/compliance and responsibility if something goes wrong? I'm not sure I see any reason to opt out aside from saving a small amount? I don't think builders here had really priced it into their quotes so they're not going to price it out as such if we opt out...

I will PM you

RKQ · 18-12-2015 03:12PM

miss no stars wrote: »

The local authorities cannot and WILL not issue them retrospectively. Until someone finds they can't sell their house due to no commencement notice and challenges it in court.

This has been the law since circa July 1992. Local Authorities never issued a Commencement Notice retrospectively.

maggi · 29-01-2016 09:51AM

Hi all, I would like some advice if possible. We are currently building a house (started in Aug 2015) so are tied into old building control regs where we need an assigned certifier.
Our house is now roofed & plastered and signed off by our assigned certifier up to block level complete. Our problem is now we can't get in contact with our AC to sign off the roof, he hasn't been on site in weeks & no one is answering a phone.
We have built the house direct labour.
We decided after Christmas to start looking for a new AC as we are sick of all these delays, however most people we ring say they wouldn't be covered by insurance to take over mid-build. I can understand why someone wouldn't want to step in mid build but find ourselves now stuck?!
The architect that designed the house has been on site during the build as he is a Neighbour & has seen all the work going on but isn't an assigned certifier so can't sign off the work.
I've phoned the building controls authority to be told we can't now opt out of the assigned certifier regs as the house was started in Aug 2015 & the new regs didn't come in until Sept 2015. If we could opt out our original architect could sign off the house for us but as it stands we're stuck & not sure what to do next? Is there any way to retrospectively opt out? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

Gumbo · 29-01-2016 08:25PM

maggi wrote: »

Hi all, I would like some advice if possible. We are currently building a house (started in Aug 2015) so are tied into old building control regs where we need an assigned certifier.
Our house is now roofed & plastered and signed off by our assigned certifier up to block level complete. Our problem is now we can't get in contact with our AC to sign off the roof, he hasn't been on site in weeks & no one is answering a phone.
We have built the house direct labour.
We decided after Christmas to start looking for a new AC as we are sick of all these delays, however most people we ring say they wouldn't be covered by insurance to take over mid-build. I can understand why someone wouldn't want to step in mid build but find ourselves now stuck?!
The architect that designed the house has been on site during the build as he is a Neighbour & has seen all the work going on but isn't an assigned certifier so can't sign off the work.
I've phoned the building controls authority to be told we can't now opt out of the assigned certifier regs as the house was started in Aug 2015 & the new regs didn't come in until Sept 2015. If we could opt out our original architect could sign off the house for us but as it stands we're stuck & not sure what to do next? Is there any way to retrospectively opt out? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

Absolutely you cannot opt out at this stage, and rightly so.
You need to engage a new AC and notify the Building Control Authority that the AC is changing. There's a specific form to use. We get a good few AC changes here in Dublin. Pretty straight forward procedure.

mickdw · 30-01-2016 12:30AM

kceire wrote: »

Absolutely you cannot opt out at this stage, and rightly so.
You need to engage a new AC and notify the Building Control Authority that the AC is changing. There's a specific form to use. We get a good few AC changes here in Dublin. Pretty straight forward procedure.

Wouldn't the AC had signed a legal undertaking to supervise and issue certification.
I wouldnt be letting them off the hook that easy.

Gumbo · 30-01-2016 02:50PM

mickdw wrote: »

Wouldn't the AC had signed a legal undertaking to supervise and issue certification.
I wouldnt be letting them off the hook that easy.

Possibly but some circumstances leave no option. Business closing, death etc
That's the reason for the AC change procedure in place.

New Building Control Regs

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