Why is not wanting children still a bit of a taboo?

TG1 wrote: »

I was a bit horrified by how much this small insignificant side effect upset my friends who I previously thought were pretty modern, rational people! Is it just my circle of friends who have not moved past the idea that everyone must have children or has anyone else encountered this attitude?

I have not encountered it in my own circle of friends and family - but more second hand through them. There is no small amount of them that have decided children are not for them or their lifestyle. And they get all kinds of negative reactions to this. But as you suggest - most people have moved past these attitudes. As with many things - it is just a small vocal minority that get mentioned on threads like this one - that give the impression that the attitudes are still largely prevalent in the world.

The most common reaction I hear of (though still increasingly rare I hasten to repeat) is the "You do not think you want them now but you will" one. Usually coupled with a phrase along the lines of "I did not want them either - but now I have them I can not understand what I was thinking".

A less common reaction is the one you describe. The "Nature intends for you to do it" one. Sometimes with the more religious "It is god's plan" type comment which is thankfully less and less common these days.

The least common reaction - but still one that is out there - is outright anger and aggression. As if you are somehow letting down your friends - family - or even society down by not "being like everyone else". As if you have some duty to the species to reproduce.

I have even heard of comments of an extremity like "How dare you - there are people out there who would give anything to have a child - and you are simply throwing away your natural ability to do so" - as if having a capability someone else lacks compels you to use it.

Oh looksie here - I have decided never to play ball sports - oh the horror that is me - given all the people stuck with conditions that preclude them from playing any sport. How dare I not play when all those people want to but can not!

I suppose a lot of it could come down to people feeling judged - as seamus says in his post which I reply to below.

Go into some of the alcohol related forums or threads on boards.ie for example. Something you hear reported there is when someone chooses to stop drinking - their drinking friends sometimes view it as a judgement of their drinking. As if the choice not to drink oneself is inherently a disparagement on those that do.

So I wonder could something similar be at play between people who choose not to have children and people who do? As if the life style choice of the former is being treated as a disparaging commentary on the latter?

But there is also the fact that we as a species like an easy narrative and when everyone follows that narrative - we know where we stand with them. We can parse their life through our experience of our own and know where they are coming from and generally what they are thinking - feeling - and experiencing.

So when one steps outside the standard narrative in any noticable way - going alco free - vegetarian - child free - homosexual - the list is huge - you slightly become something "other" and this makes people uncomfortable because they have to work that little bit harder to parse you in their head and you are slightly more alien to them.

I guess we like to tell ourselves we treat people as individuals - but many of our species want people to be a lot more homogeneous than we let on.

seamus wrote: »

I'm going to be "that guy" and agree on this one...to a point. There is a very specific kind of shift in focus that occurs. A depth of love for another living creature that you will very likely never have experienced before.

Speak for yourself

I have experienced depths of love for all kinds of people. Family. Friends. Partners. Children (mine and others) even pets. And each loving relationship has been different to the next.

But I would not point to any category within that set as a whole and declare it to be more special - more deep - or more "true" than the others. Quite the opposite. Each category is capable of it's own peaks and troughs and extremes just like any other.

I remember a thread over on the city data forum (a forum that uses the same software as this one) about whether in an emergency situation - where you could only save the life of your spouse or your child - which one you would jump to. The thread - as I recall - was divided on it 50:50 with some people horrified entirely at the choice of the other side.

We are a creature that loves labels and neat little boxes. So when we love our children more than anyone else - or our spouse more than anyone else - or whatever - we like to erect a little narrative in our heads that this is just how love works. When the reality is in fact that the extremes of love are as individual as the people involved and one persons "True Love" is another persons lack of even a radar blip of relevance.

But telling childfree people they do not understand or know "true" love is as bad a comment as the one the OPs post was lamenting. Especially given people throwing that claim around can not quantify the difference in any way. Attempt yourself - for example - to articulate the difference in love for a child that makes it "true love" - that people like - say - me - do not feel for our partners/spouse. I warn you up front - you are going to fail.

intheclouds wrote: »

Nothing like shutting down discussion with "it doesn't need explaining". Of course it doesn't NEED explaining in private life, but this is a discussion forum. I'm interested to know. I can say why I don't want to have children so surely someone who does want to have them can say why?

There is no easy answer for you really. The reasons people want them will likely be as individual as they are. Imagine if you love putting your feet up in the evening and reading a book or watching a soap. You could explain your reasons for not wanting to go out of a winter evening and play football with a team in the wind and the rain. You could ask to understand why people who do it want to do it - but there is no one reason or set of reasons to easily understand. There will be MANY. And each person you talk to might have one - two - or many of those reasons.

So each of us can only speak for ourselves. On this thread you have seen both extremes. People who do not want children at all - like yourself - and people who speak of always wanting them. I myself fall dead centre on that scale. I never wanted - nor not wanted - children. Rather - I simply did not think of it.

Then once I was established in a relationship I started wanting to. The reasons were many. I wanted to embark on that special shared project with my partners. A path I could only walk with them and no one else. A second reason was that I wanted to put a little more of the people I love in the world. That is how I see my children. As being individuals - but !also! as being a little bit more of the object of my love in the world.

And further I wanted to see the world through the eyes of a child in a way only people working in very close relationship with a child can - and I wanted to expand myself in the ways that that demands. Because often being a parent can mean looking at the world in a new way - and living life in a new way - that can be a stimulating and fulfilling intellectual and emotional challenge. Children have a great way of asking questions about the world that leave you not only thinking "Actually - you know I do not know the answer to that" but also "You know what - that is a question I have become so set in the narrative of my life - that I would not have even thought to ask in the first place!".

But as I say those are my reasons. There will be people reading what I wrote thinking "YES! That is it exactly" and others reading it going "No - no I do not recognise myself in that at all. Nothing he just said describes my motivations for having children _at all_!". My choices were purely intellectual and emotional. Others describe an instinctive need and desire that I have never had myself.

intheclouds wrote: »

Is it seen as taboo for a man not to want children?

It can be but it is expressed less intently I suspect. Possibly due to the idea many people have related to the time period in which one can safely and successfully procreate. The effects of age on the process are seen as being more pressing for women than men - and hence the intensity of peoples reactions towards someone not having - or wanting - children can be proportional to that.

With my and my partners we decided the girls would not have children until they were in their 30s. I have two kids now with the girl who is in her 30s - but no kids yet with my second girlfriend who is not yet in her 30s.

And this has been met with some level of (again uncommon but existing) horrified reactions from the "Oh do not wait until 30s - its much safer and better to have children before that!!!" crowd.