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Breastfeeding Mom in restaurant stare off...

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    #302
    Gaygooner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Gaygooner


    Why are men's nipples OK to show and women's not???

    It smacks of a bygone era of them being "evil temptation" to a poor maligned man


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    #303
    Azalea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭Azalea


    A crying baby doesn't have to be fed when you feel the need to urinate. God, the absolutely woeful "urinating/defecating/masturbation/sex is natural too" "argument" is still being resorted to?!


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    #304
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Azalea wrote: »
    A crying baby doesn't have to be fed when you feel the need to urinate. God, the absolutely woeful "urinating/defecating/masturbation/sex is natural too" "argument" is still being resorted to?!

    Yes, it's really pathetic to compare a hungry baby to an adult needing to urinate.


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    #305
    Wonda-Boy
    Registered Users Posts: 10,013 ✭✭✭✭Wonda-Boy


    Maybe it was a guy and just wanted the other free one!!!


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    #306
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,111 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Azalea wrote: »
    I'd say younger people remember it in rural Ireland - it was still happening in the '60s.
    It was still going on in Dublin in the mid 70's. Crazy.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #307
    brian_7070
    Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭brian_7070


    The real question here is why would someone take a photo of a woman breast feeding and then post it on the internet.


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    #308
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    osarusan wrote: »
    Would you not agree that you have changed your tune a bit since earlier in the thread, when you were arguing that the way she was breastfeeding was designed to get attention?



    And I don't get the 'ignore the baby on your breast' comment - breastfeeding takes time, and the mother can look round and carry on eating/talking without causing the baby any problems whatsoever. It seems like a petty dig to be honest.

    Was she looking for attention by posting what she did? Sure. But as I asked you earlier:

    I haven't changed my tune at all. I still believe the woman was feeding in such a way for attention - further evidenced by her reaction to someone allegedly looking at her.

    As for your other question - I think she did both for attention


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    #309
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Most women don't breastfeed a baby in public the way the woman in the picture is doing it


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    #310
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    The bigger issue I've noticed from reading this thread is that people are breastfeeding 2 year olds!! WTF? That is weird.
    WHO guidelines recommend two years of breastfeeding. It's "weird" insofar as it's not typical here in the western world, but there's not really any good reason why it's not done with the exception really of practicality. Up to about nine months, the child decides when they want to be fed, but after that you can add structure to meal times. So it's not like a woman has to whip it out in public to feed an 18-month old, parents can (and will) plan their day around where and when the child will be fed. At that age it's also not 8 times a day, you're talking maybe in the morning and before bed, so the disruption to someone's life isn't that big.

    Funny thing though about WHO guidelines is that they're extremely high-level. The same guideline applies to the Duchess of Cambridge as it does to a woman living in a wattle hut in sub-saharan Africa.
    It's noted that best outcomes are achieved when breastfed for two years, but that's when applied across an entire world of averages. In poorer countries, breastfeeding provides a constant source of wholesome and safe nutrition when the family's resources may be dwindling. It also makes it more difficult (though far from impossible) to fall pregnant again. You can see why this would lead to better child (and parent) outcomes on average across the world, but why it's probably less relevant for us 1%-ers here in the Western world to adhere strictly to it.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    It was still going on in Dublin in the mid 70's. Crazy.
    Yeah, my mother-in-law would have still done this in 1975. I suspect though it probably depended on how devout the person was and the attitude of their local parish. My mother first gave birth and 1976 and she said that the practice was considered archaic by most people even then.


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    #311
    Utdfan20titles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 246 ✭✭Utdfan20titles


    Is it wrong to take a quick snap on your phone when the baby takes a little break?


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    #312
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    How do women who want to breastfeed for 2 years+ manage about going back to work.

    I am aware that workplaces must support breastfeeding but from a practical perspective - I am an hours commute, and travel a lot for work - so it just wouldnt be possible.


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    #313
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    intheclouds wrote: »
    How do women who want to breastfeed for 2 years+ manage about going back to work.

    I am aware that workplaces must support breastfeeding but from a practical perspective - I am an hours commute, and travel a lot for work - so it just wouldnt be possible.

    Feeding a new born is different to a two year old. I went back to work when each child was 11 months. There would be a morning and evening feed. At weekends they might have more. My two year old gets a feed every morning and that might be it when I'm working late. When I'm off he might look for three or four feeds a day.


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    #314
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    intheclouds wrote: »
    How do women who want to breastfeed for 2 years+ manage about going back to work.

    I am aware that workplaces must support breastfeeding but from a practical perspective - I am an hours commute, and travel a lot for work - so it just wouldnt be possible.
    Well that's one reason a lot of women don't. Maternity leave is six months, so they aim to be phasing it out by that stage.

    Many women will express - you stick it in sterile bags and freeze it, so the child can be fed by anyone else. But when the child is older, it's not an every two hours matter, you can phase it down to twice a day - morning and evening, and later on even once a day.

    The babies also become more efficient. A newborn might take an hour or more to feed, whereas by a year old it's 5/10 minutes. So the disruption to your life is somewhat minimal - in fact easier than making lunch or even making a bottle.

    You still need work/life to be conducive to it though. I know one woman who kept it up for nearly 3 years. She's a schoolteacher so morning and late afternoon feeds not an issue for her. If you were leaving for work at 7am and picking them up from creche at 5pm, it'd be more difficult.


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    #315
    Utdfan20titles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 246 ✭✭Utdfan20titles


    seamus wrote: »
    . I know one woman who kept it up for nearly 3 years. She's a schoolteacher

    She could just whip them out in the class and call it biology?


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    #316
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Utdfan20titles wrote: »
    She could just whip them out in the class and call it biology?

    Would you cut out this nonsense. You're obviously just trying to sound funny and witty about breastfeeding and failing miserably. Are you aware of how three years old children breastfeed or are you actually interested? Or just poking fun at how children are fed?


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    #317
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    Breastfeeding is totally natural and most women I know just do it quietly and discreetly and don't feel the need to make any big deal out of it.

    Women like the one in that picture seem to see something unusual and noteworthy about breastfeeding and hence make a big, public, look at me everyone deal about it.


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    #318
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't know her motives for being obvious about it, but at the same time I take the point that she should be as free to feed her kid as she likes, and the people who are uncomfortable with it are the ones with the problem.

    She might have been sticking it to a starer by giving them something to stare at, I don't know. Calling her attention seeking is fair enough, but the context she's seeking attention in might not be the way some people intend.

    Had to laugh at someone remarking it was her second kid at 24 and implying she was obviously a certain 'type' because of this. AH never really changes, you'll always get someone trying to twist the knife in for no reason. Anyone who thinks feeding a hungry child is comparable with public masturbation needs to start thinking before they type, unless you actually intend to come across as a complete fool.


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    #319
    gimmick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,296 ✭✭✭✭gimmick


    Can I ask why was someone taking a photo of her breastfeeding? Did she ask someone or was it someone getting a cheap thrill?

    Seems like a completely staged story to me.


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    #320
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    gimmick wrote: »
    Can I ask why was someone taking a photo of her breastfeeding? Did she ask someone or was it someone getting a cheap thrill?

    Seems like a completely staged story to me.


    I'm guessing she'd a friend with her and told her to take a photo of her "staring someone down"... The weird thing is, she's wearing glasses, so you can't see her staring at anything or anyone, all you can see is her breastfeeding her baby and nobody actually around her taking a blind bit of notice.

    It has a woeful whiff of "social experiment" off it.


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    #321
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    My point was referring to the attitude that "if other people are offended by my behavior, fcuk 'em", and what I'm saying is that it's not a good attitude to have

    I would say it is a perfectly good attitude to have if there are no other reasons other than personal offence to want them to change their behavior. But you have already shown yourself to be someone who takes offence at the smallest things, like people merely holding hands in a restaurant.

    I, for example, really do not like to see massively obese people poured into extremely tight Lycra cycle pants and coming into German Beer gardens sweating in the summer. When it happens however I realize I am the one with the problem, not them, so I merely turn away. I do not throw around some nonsense about them being inconsiderate to my feelings.

    The same should be true of things like public breast feeding or mild PDA like hand holding. It would be the observers problem not theirs, and the observers personal offence is your issue, not theirs.

    If however one can level genuine arguments other than "That offends me"...... which one can very much do for your fantastical analogy to flashing ones penis at people......... then that is a different story. But so far I have not heard one argument ever, least of all from you, against public breast feeding or why someone engaging in it needs "consideration" for others. I simply see nothing worth the consideration.
    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    The easiest and most convenient way to do it is simply to pull up their top and expose the nipple

    Not always true as it happens. My own son for example needs not just the nipple exposed but due to irritations and sensitive skin needs the clothing pulled far enough away to avoid any and all contact. Otherwise his skin gets red raw.

    So quite a lot has to be exposed. And of course people mention the option of using some kind of cover like a muslin cloth or some such. All well and good unless you have a baby that panics when you try it.

    And that is just one example of an exception to the "rule" you have, simply, made up.
    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    It's standard practice for anyone with babies that they prepare beforehand - nappies, milk, etc.

    More making stuff up from you. Actually many people can not pre-prepare milk in this fashion at all. The level of their supply simply is not enough. And even when they can prepare milk before hand, many children do not take the bottle and refuse it. So some people simply can not engage in the types of "perpetration" you discuss here.


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    #322
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 5,972 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    ^^^

    I'm confused. Are you saying the person who is offended is the problem or the person committing the so-called offence?


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    #323
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    ^^^

    I'm confused. Are you saying the person who is offended is the problem or the person committing the so-called offence?

    The person who is offended is the problem.


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    #324
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    It's a simple issue really:

    "Listen the constitution says I can bring a gun into a creche to protect myself from any toddlers that might turn out to be armed and dangerous - THAT'S MY RIGHT AS A MERICAN - but you cannot feed your child in public in case I accidentally see you and become slightly uncomfortable because I've got some weird hang ups about breasts for some unknown reason. That's just the way it is and if you don't like it darlin' you can f*ck off back to commie France or wherever you came from."


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    #325
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    I'm confused. Are you saying the person who is offended is the problem or the person committing the so-called offence?

    I am saying that if someone is offended by something, then they have the issue, not the person causing the offence. And I mean that in the context of issues where people are not doing anything wrong. One Eyed for example is offended by people doing Hand Holding PDA in restaurants, and he feels the people holding hands are being inconsiderate. The same is true for many people in relation to public breast feeding.

    Since there are no arguments from that kind of person that the person is actually doing anything wrong however..... their offence is their own problem.... not the problem of the source or cause. People holding hands for example do not need to be considerate of Restaurant Cranks.... because there is nothing they should be considerate of by merely holding hands.


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    #326
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    nozzferrahhtoo wrote:
    Since there are no arguments from that kind of person that the person is actually doing anything wrong however..... their offence is their own problem.... not the problem of the source or cause. People holding hands for example do not need to be considerate of Restaurant Cranks.... because there is nothing they should be considerate of by merely holding hands.


    Are you sure he's offended by that? I mean there's a difference between not liking and being offended by something. I don't like PDAs either. It think they reek of a lack of self control, whilst being controlling of each other. To me, nothing says "this person is mine, back off everyone else!" like a PDA. That doesn't mean I'm offended by it, I just don't like them. There's a big difference between a PDA and breast feeding.


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    #327
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    sup_dude wrote: »
    Are you sure he's offended by that? I mean there's a difference between not liking and being offended by something. I don't like PDAs either. It think they reek of a lack of self control, whilst being controlling of each other. To me, nothing says "this person is mine, back off everyone else!" like a PDA. That doesn't mean I'm offended by it, I just don't like them. There's a big difference between a PDA and breast feeding.

    There's a big difference but they also have a lot in common, such as the fact that some people don't want to see them and the fact that that is their own problem.


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    #328
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 5,972 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »
    I am saying that if someone is offended by something, then they have the issue, not the person causing the offence. And I mean that in the context of issues where people are not doing anything wrong. One Eyed for example is offended by people doing Hand Holding PDA in restaurants, and he feels the people holding hands are being inconsiderate. The same is true for many people in relation to public breast feeding.

    Since there are no arguments from that kind of person that the person is actually doing anything wrong however..... their offence is their own problem.... not the problem of the source or cause. People holding hands for example do not need to be considerate of Restaurant Cranks.... because there is nothing they should be considerate of by merely holding hands.

    Right. Thanks for clearing that up.

    Now if someone is offended by my actions, do I have the right to be offended by them being offended? Or does that put me in the wrong as well? Does it make me worse than them as I would be Offended 2.0 or are we equal morons?


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    #329
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    sup_dude wrote: »
    Are you sure he's offended by that? I mean there's a difference between not liking and being offended by something. I don't like PDAs either. It think they reek of a lack of self control, whilst being controlling of each other. To me, nothing says "this person is mine, back off everyone else!" like a PDA. That doesn't mean I'm offended by it, I just don't like them. There's a big difference between a PDA and breast feeding.


    This is it really, I'm not at all "offended" by PDA's, nor am I "offended" by women breastfeeding in public. What bothers me is some people's attitudes -

    "I'll do whatever I like in public and I don't care what you think, but don't you dare stare at me"...

    If a person takes the position that they need have no consideration for other people, then their complaints about people having no consideration for them, tend to ring a bit hollow.


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    #330
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Right. Thanks for clearing that up.

    Now if someone is offended by my actions, do I have the right to be offended by them being offended? Or does that put me in the wrong as well? Does it make me worse than them as I would be Offended 2.0 or are we equal morons?

    It would make you odd, at least. Being offended by someone else's being offended makes no sense.


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    #331
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Kev W wrote:
    There's a big difference but they also have a lot in common, such as the fact that some people don't want to see them and the fact that that is their own problem.


    At the same time, breast feeding needs to happen but PDAs don't. I don't think anyone has the same reaction to PDAs as breast feeding (unless they have severe issues with being single). Nobody is horrified or disgusted at PDAs (unless it's sex) but people are horrified and disgusted at breast feeding simply because it involves boobs.


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