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Why is public transport in Dublin so bad?

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24567…53

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    #32
    lawlolawl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,678 ✭✭✭lawlolawl


    ClovenHoof wrote: »
    Take Green Party TD 'Dublin' Ciaran Cuffe, actively campaigning against the Dublin Rail Plan, while ejaculating in his pants at the thought of 3 'sustainable' trains with 8 passengers running through Swinford. This is not a normal person of adequate cognition. Yet in Ireland, people vote for muppets like this.

    We are a most simple minded folk. We call our politicians by their first names thinking they are our friends. Our newspapers dictate national policy. We are the only nation in Europe who DEMANDS that sodium fluoride is put in our drinking water in order to prove how 'scientific' we are. There was a recent article in a foreign soccer magazine delighted the Irish made the Euro finals as we would bring our 'child like simplicity' with us.

    Like it or not, there are more Irish people like Fr Dougal than we wish to admit and the British were not insulting us with the Thick Paddy jokes. They were holding a mirror up to us.

    Yeah, this country has a real problem with lack of common sense and sustainability.

    Any time we get a few pound we flitter it away on nonsense vanity projects or use it to borrow off of to fuel another credit meltdown once we realise we have to pay back ten times more money than we started with.

    Throw a sporting event or a few extra quid from the government at most people in this country and they are pacified. Nothing will ever really improve on a systemic level but "shure, i can afford a few more ciggies/cans/scratchcards now and i get to see a guy do a sport in a green jersey so i'm happy."


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    #33
    Banjoxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Perhaps not, but it's more of a mood setter. Our political class consists mostly of semi-literate primary school teachers, they aren't capable of independent thought or reasoning so the media line suits them fine.

    That and vested interests who want sprawl to sell cars and aggregate in.


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    #34
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Because the general public don't care. Did you see an episode of Vincent b or prime time about the killing of du or mn? Nope. People don't give a ****


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    #35
    Banjoxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Because the general public don't care. Did you see an episode of Vincent b or prime time about the killing of du or mn? Nope. People don't give a ****

    More accurately Vincent and Prime Time don't give one. Vincenzo in his monetarist phase was always very quick to quote Sean "an Bord Snip" Barrett about the DART project. If Barrett had his way at the time there wouldn't have been a DART to interconnect with anything, at all.


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    #36
    zulutango
    Registered Users Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    mhge wrote: »
    You might want to visit Krakow, outside of its compact historical city centre it's best described as "house salad" and you might be 30 minutes on a tram running through some dreadful half empty fields before you reach a built up area again. Density is half that of Dublin, no underground, but trams and buses are first class running every few minutes radial and orbital.

    You might argue that Krakow is low density but you should note that it has high density population clusters that make public transport more viable there. Dublin is a sprawling, fairly poorly planned mess, and not at all like Krakow. Also, the economics of providing good public transport in the former Soviet Union is quite different to what it is in this country. Comparing the two cities is a nonsense.

    The fact that Dublin is a mess is not a reason not to invest in public transport. In fact, it's a very good reason to do so, as this would go along way to fixing the planning disasters of the last number of decades. Over time, and with good support planning, the population would realign along public transport corridors.

    But make no mistake about is, the population dispersal in Dublin currently is a huge barrier to providing good public transport to that population.


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    #37
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,303 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    zulutango wrote: »
    But make no mistake about is, the population dispersal in Dublin currently is a huge barrier to providing good public transport to that population.

    The 1km Catchment area of metro North has a population of around 200,000 people, The State's main airport some hospitals and some universities, and an existing train station, there is no fear that Metro North would be under utilised. In 2002 the IT made out the luas would be empty most of the time. :rolleyes:

    We are now realising that the system was completely under designed and we are seeing crush loading at peak times only 10 years after the system opening.


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    #38
    zulutango
    Registered Users Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    cgcsb wrote: »
    The 1km Catchment area of metro North has a population of around 200,000 people, The State's main airport some hospitals and some universities, and an existing train station, there is no fear that Metro North would be under utilised. In 2002 the IT made out the luas would be empty most of the time. :rolleyes:

    We are now realising that the system was completely under designed and we are seeing crush loading at peak times only 10 years after the system opening.

    I'm not arguing against the LUAS or Metro North.

    I'm saying why it's very difficult to have an adequate public transport system in Dublin, i.e. one that serves all it's population and does so efficiently.


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    #39
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Krakow was not in Soviet Union... and has low rise areas too. Plenty of relatively small cities in the north/east of Europe have great public transport and they do not always build high as they like their terraces and bungalows too.
    Dublin is not special.


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    #40
    dissed doc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭dissed doc


    zulutango wrote: »
    I'm not arguing against the LUAS or Metro North.

    I'm saying why it's very difficult to have an adequate public transport system in Dublin, i.e. one that serves all it's population and does so efficiently.

    it costs a lot of money and so far the private sector has been unwilling or unable to develop it. looking to the government is the natural alternative, but requires a lot of tax to make it happen. the people who would benefit the most, pay the least in tax so the money is just not there.

    it is simply cheaper and more accesible and more importantly "good enough" to run a car for most people.


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    #41
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    One reason is people think a commuting solution is a transport solution.

    The city being run by culchies doesn't help.


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    #42
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,303 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Bambi wrote: »
    One reason is people think a commuting solution is a transport solution.

    The city being run by culchies doesn't help.

    Indeed, is there any chance Dublin might be able to spend Dublin's property tax ...in Dublin, ya know instead of filling potholes in the boreens of Enda's constituency?


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    #43
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,303 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    dissed doc wrote: »
    the people who would benefit the most, pay the least in tax so the money is just not there.

    How do you figure that one?


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    #44
    hardanro
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭hardanro


    Low density isn't the main problem.
    How can we complain about low density and still wait for 5-6 buses to stop, because they are too full (something that I did not see in any high density city where I have been)?
    If density was a problem, I would expect to see empty buses, and lack of passengers (and therefore money) to prevent investiting in improving the services. But in fact, it's the other way around, they try to push more people towards car with their poor management and bad reliability.


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    #45
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,285 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    zulutango wrote: »
    I'm saying why it's very difficult to have an adequate public transport system in Dublin, i.e. one that serves all it's population and does so efficiently.

    It's so difficult because they don't even try.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #46
    Canadel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭Canadel


    Decided to take the train as a treat this morning from Drumcondra to Connolly - checked and double checked the times and was there around quarter to 8. Planned to confirm time and schedule with a staff member but of course nobody around from Irish Rail. Tagged on anyway and arrived the the platform to see that the 8.10 train was now the 8.19 train, which then became the 8.25 train and so on. No announcement from Irish Rail and no way of being forewarned of this change before tagging on or buying a ticket as there is no schedule info available apart from on the platform, and the online timetable was as per usual. Ended up tagging back off at Drumcondra and walking to work. What's the bet I'm charged to the last stop!


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    #47
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    I presume its crap because the people who make the decisions regarding PT don't use it.
    Govt ministers have mercs, and cops to drive them up buslanes/ignoring restrictions that apply to others
    The Chairman of CIÉ had a company merc too...

    Mick O Leary flys Ryanair.


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    #48
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,322 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Mick O Leary flys Ryanair.
    O'Leary has been one of the most vocal against Public Transport infrastructure developments to North Dublin/ the airport. He has a taxi plate, so he doesn't have to get stuck in traffic with the plebs.


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    #49
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    O'Leary has been one of the most vocal against Public Transport infrastructure developments to North Dublin/ the airport. He has a taxi plate, so he doesn't have to get stuck in traffic with the plebs.

    But the public transport company he runs, runs well, partly because he uses it.


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    #50
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,796 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    O'Leary has been one of the most vocal against Public Transport infrastructure developments to North Dublin/ the airport.

    Air travel is part of the public transport infrastructure, as far as I'm concerned.


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    #51
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    its crap because anything that isn't welfare increases, PS pay increases or tax cuts is seen as absolute frivolous waste! there is far too much consensus sought in this country, I mean you read the ignorant opinions of many who dont have a clue what they are talking about, then the media who you would think would be educated and educated on the subject;s they write about are either 1) talking complete sh*t or 2) tell the people what they want to hear (as its all about selling at the end of the day)

    The M50 shambles would be alleviated a lot with a proper north south line, linking swords and bray. The decisions to stall the MN that has planning for €200,000,000 a year in "savings" is outrageous, thats what the cost of much of the gridlock in Dublin is, €200,000,000 a year (a huge amount of which would have simply went back to government coffers). Postponing DU also for mickey mouse money again, it is all irrelevance money at the end of the day. The "savings" from re-designing both of these projects, would have been covered by the money they magiced up for this give away budget!

    If for political reasons they didnt want to go with original metro north, re-secure power and start it then. I couldnt give a toss what some ignorant people outside of Dublin (the golden goose) think, they dont have to live with the grid lock, criminal infrastructure for a european capital) and the impact it has on quality of life...


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    #52
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,322 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Air travel is part of the public transport infrastructure, as far as I'm concerned.
    One of the biggest opponents of infrastructure development in air travel too - was vocal against T2 and planning for extra capacity in advance of it actually being needed.


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    #53
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,303 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    its crap because anything that isn't welfare increases, PS pay increases or tax cuts is seen as absolute frivolous waste! there is far too much consensus sought in this country, I mean you read the ignorant opinions of many who dont have a clue what they are talking about, then the media who you would think would be educated and educated on the subject;s they write about are either 1) talking complete sh*t or 2) tell the people what they want to hear (as its all about selling at the end of the day)

    The M50 shambles would be alleviated a lot with a proper north south line, linking swords and bray. The decisions to stall the MN that has planning for €200,000,000 a year in "savings" is outrageous, thats what the cost of much of the gridlock in Dublin is, €200,000,000 a year (a huge amount of which would have simply went back to government coffers). Postponing DU also for mickey mouse money again, it is all irrelevance money at the end of the day. The "savings" from re-designing both of these projects, would have been covered by the money they magiced up for this give away budget!

    If for political reasons they didnt want to go with original metro north, re-secure power and start it then. I couldnt give a toss what some ignorant people outside of Dublin (the golden goose) think, they dont have to live with the grid lock, criminal infrastructure for a european capital) and the impact it has on quality of life...
    Over on another thread where I suggested building of a QBC/BRT route in Cork City in a bid to tackle congestion two interesting posters responded:

    One claimed it shouldn't be done because it'd only mean poor people getting where they need to go faster than people who own cars.

    Another said that they once were left waiting an hour on a bus and there was no point in investing in the service until the service improved :rolleyes:

    These are average Corkonians and Cork is the second largest city in the state so you would expect red neck cliché to be minimal but there you go, we a re a low IQ nation.


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    #54
    NiallBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    One of the biggest opponents of infrastructure development in air travel too - was vocal against T2 and planning for extra capacity in advance of it actually being needed.
    To be fair, O'Leary was only critical of HOW it was being done(costs, generally hating the DAA etc). Indeed, he/Ryanair even wanted to build the second terminal themselves but were refused.


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    #55
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,303 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    NiallBoo wrote: »
    To be fair, O'Leary was only critical of HOW it was being done(costs, generally hating the DAA etc). Indeed, he/Ryanair even wanted to build the second terminal themselves but were refused.

    In other words he wanted a cheapo version of Pier D that Ryanair could control and use to squeeze competition out.


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    #56
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,322 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    NiallBoo wrote: »
    To be fair, O'Leary was only critical of HOW it was being done(costs, generally hating the DAA etc). Indeed, he/Ryanair even wanted to build the second terminal themselves but were refused.
    Wanted to build and control it - everyone else should be happy with T1. I've used both, and I know which one I prefer - it isn't the old one, never mind some Ryanair model of a terminal.


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    #57
    MrMorooka
    Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭MrMorooka


    Canadel wrote: »
    No announcement from Irish Rail and no way of being forewarned of this change before tagging on or buying a ticket as there is no schedule info available apart from on the platform, and the online timetable was as per usual.

    Except :
    https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/669427510204084224

    It's not a schedule change, it was a delay. Presumably the train you were waiting on was the one that encountered the points fault, which probably happened only a couple of minutes down the line at Glasnevin, so there was not much opportunity to forewarn you.


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    #58
    NiallBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Wanted to build and control it - everyone else should be happy with T1. I've used both, and I know which one I prefer - it isn't the old one, never mind some Ryanair model of a terminal.

    Oh of course. You'd never expect him to look out for anyone else's interest. I was just pointing out that he want against the idea.


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    #59
    dissed doc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭dissed doc


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    its crap because anything that isn't welfare increases, PS pay increases or tax cuts is seen as absolute frivolous waste! there is far too much consensus sought in this country,....

    The M50 shambles would be alleviated a lot with a proper north south line, linking swords and bray. .....

    they dont have to live with the grid lock, criminal infrastructure for a european capital) and the impact it has on quality of life...

    In fairness, there is minimal consensus in Ireland with regard to infrastructure. The government handed the private sector companies literally almost infinite ways to screw the regular working person, for example, in the how the M50 and the tolls worked, at enormous infinite ongoing expense to every user every day, instead of the public sector taking it over as a state function. Likewise, the Shell fiasco and it being raffled off for a couple of pints by two TDs. Likewise the motorways and tolls.

    The government has given the private sector free hand to exploit people as a resource. Very little consensus was ever sought, and your example of the M50, is exactly what happens with private sector companies hold too much influence. The government has no interest or need to ensure a state-regulated and managed system, because historically, they have been for decades trying to privatise everything - the failed UHI health care system, the Telecom Eireann and later fiascos with Denis O Brien, etc.,.

    Encouraging the state to beat down for decades on the public sector services and then wondering why the state doesn't magic up a new public sector service is a bit rich.


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    #60
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,857 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    lawlolawl wrote: »
    Any time we get a few pound we flitter it away on nonsense vanity projects or use it to borrow off of to fuel another credit meltdown once we realise we have to pay back ten times more money than we started with.

    Ironically DU and MN were described by gobshytes as "vanity projects". Politicians and journalists.

    In any other half a brain country, projects like them would've been described as "critical infrastructure of national importance".


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    #61
    zulutango
    Registered Users Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    Slightly off topic, but where I am based (Limerick City), Michael Noonan has allocated something like 18 million euro to build a footbridge that serves no function whatsoever. There's actually an existing footbridge less than 50 metres away. This is one of many vanity projects that happen around the State and that mean that key infrastructural projects don't happen. Personally I think it should be a national scandal but the press haven't cottoned on to it yet.


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