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Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,909 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Stinicker wrote: »
    This attack comes straight from Islamic State and the teachings of the Quran, all Muslims have a duty to kill non believers it says so in their Quran.

    You know that the bible also commands the same right. Here is a very small sample of what the bible has to say about those who don't believe in god or believe in other gods. So I suppose we had best run all the Christians out of Gotham too eh? Because we all know that people who just happened to be born into any religion adhere to all it's more ideologies, even the criminally insane ones. :rolleyes:

    They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

    Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

    If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

    Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

    One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    Nobody is talking about the civil rights of ISIS, but of the civilians they share countries with if the "turn the whole middle east into a crater" morons get their way.

    Oh right, so we are going to pick and choose who gets rights and who doesn't?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    We can't patrol all of europes borders so well funded people will still be able to get in. Of course if people who just want to feed their familys know that europe isn't an option for them and a wll funded group offers them food what do you thinj they will do? Once in the camps they will be converted to extremism.
    If europe is a possibility then they will try for what they know is a better life here. We need to stop ISIS recruiting which will require some being nice which some here seem to hate (which ISIS dsperately want them to as well, how does it feel to want to do what ISIS want you to do?)

    Of course when we find the relevant people they should be sent to their maker fairly sharpish. I also want people to work o how to find them. Hint most muslims ignore the evil bits of their religion just like christians. The issue are the ones not ignoring those bits. Every religion has do not kill anyone followed by kill those people. We need to find anyone ignoring the first bit.


  • Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    First of all, SOME OF MY BEST FRIENDS ARE MUSLIMS.

    Now some people will be glib and say that automatically disqualifies my opinion because "that's what racist people say". However, I'm saying it as a statement of fact rather than an attempt to show how impartial I am.

    I think we should connect the dots between this incident and mass immigration of muslims to Europe.

    If 10,000 people a week are coming to Europe to live, I have no doubt that 99.9% of them are the same as you and me, with families and the same hopes and dreams as all of us. However, it is the 0.1%, the 10 people per week, if you will that concerns me because they hate the West and they have no intention to live peacefully as Westerners, they are only interested in violently asserting their religion's superiority on the rest of us.

    It's harsh, but I think we should reject the 10,000 people per week as a protection mechanism, until Europe has already assimilated the existing muslim population without incidents such as this. It's getting out of control at this stage.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Peregrine wrote: »
    If you post here again, you'll find yourself banned.

    Mod
    leavingirl wrote: »
    I never mentioned anything about CT's. You and your strawman argument.

    Shame on you you ChickenHawk.
    leavingirl wrote: »
    It is very, very depressing. Hollande coming out and mentioning acts of war. That is extremely worrying and it appears he has taken the bait hook, line and sinker. Talk about knee-jerk reactions!

    The hypocrisy of vermin like Cameron coming out a few minutes after the event last night and tweeting his 'shock' is also bewildering

    As promised.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40 Facekicking 2 The Future


    The fact that the president of France IMMEDIATELY closed the borders proves he never believed this lie. He knew it was extremely dangerous and he did it anyways.

    If letting hundreds of thousands of Arabs into your country is safe, WHY SHUT THE ****ING BORDER? Because it's blindingly obvious it's extremely dangerous and he never really believed it was safe, but he never cared about the safety of the French people. That isn't his top priority.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭colossus-x


    leavingirl wrote: »
    I never mentioned anything about CT's. You and your strawman argument.

    Shame on you you ChickenHawk.

    So what was your point then ? That you simply didn't see something on your TV screen that actually happened?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭dissed doc


    Hopefully they will track down the next group of attackers before they get to execute another massacre.

    Thankfully the politicians have a solution: open the borders and allow the natives to be removed slowly. Result: no more attacks against natives. The logic is admirable.

    Don't want any more ISIS attacks? Well cover your sisters, mothers and girlfriends in Hijabs and get yourself to the Mosque, get down on your knees and submit to Allah. Then you are safe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,732 ✭✭✭kleefarr


    Stinicker wrote: »
    Last nights attack is only the first of many such attacks we will see coming in the very near future. Let there be no doubt about it, this is an attack on Europe and Christianity and this attack enjoys huge support even amongst moderate Muslims. This attack comes straight from Islamic State and the teachings of the Quran, all Muslims have a duty to kill non believers it says so in their Quran.

    The leftwing have been truely exposed for what they are, traitors and enemies of the west. The great hope of Europe ironically lays to the East in Moscow with Vladimir Putin, we are positioning slowly towards the Third World War, last night was only one small battle in what is yet to come. Ireland luckily lies to the periphery although our Government bringing in 4,000 potential terrorists under the guise of Refugees will ensure we do not escape what is to come.

    Saudi Arabia is the worlds number one sponsor of terrorism funding Wahhabism hate all over the world and Qatar, Turkey and Saudi Arabia are funding and arming Islamic State. The Middle East and Turkey needs to be completely fenced off and let them do whatever they wish within their "caliphate" it is not up to us to police them. Israel must be defended and ordinary Israelis are dealing with incidents like Paris every second day.

    Schengen must be tore up, the EU must be abolished and Military spending across the EU must increase massively. Islam and Mosques should have no place in Europe and Islam should be banned; Islam is not a Religion it is a racist doctrine of hate.

    One thing for certain is last night was just the beginning and soon enough people will awaken to what we are truly facing, Liberals and the Left with their political correctness can be thanked for the deaths last night.






    Europe 2029 is happening now as we speak, and will only intensify, already in the East the Nationalists have awoken and we are facing a similar situation as Europe was in the late 1930's. Except this time the Fascists have come in the guise of anti-fascism just as Winston Churchill predicted.

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/12/pictures-50000-polish-nationalists-march-on-warsaw-burn-eu-flags/

    Have not seen that Europe 2029 video before. Scary stuff.
    Too little to late I feel.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    Stinicker wrote: »
    If the liberals were around in the 1930's and 1940's I'm sure they would try to mollycoddle the Nazis back then.

    You're a very confused person


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,454 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Drumpot wrote: »
    My first reaction to this is to think of my children. Do I want to allow an open border policy potentially effect my family? If we just stop taking refugees we lower the chance of a terrorist getting into this country, right?

    But then I think about it objectively. I take my own personal interest out of the equation. The right thing to do is not panic and sacrifice thousands of people to these monsters. If we choose, as a nation to sacrifice refugees because it's getting hairy, we should take a long hard look at ourselves.

    War isn't easy and doing the right thing isn't always easy and like it this case it can require a sacrifice. For us, it's a sacrifice of our comfortable lives where we haven't really a care in the world. Where Joe Duffy deals with the majority of our first world problems.

    These people are dieting trying to flee conditions I cannot even imagine for myself let alone my children.

    I admit, I am worried even saying this, that my family will be effected, but I think to turn our backs on the refugees makes us allow the fear driven strategy of the terrorists a success. Worse still it makes us complicit in their strategy.

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

    Here's my thoughts..

    We (as in the West) need to accept that there are people out there who don't believe what we do, don't hold the same values as we do, and have no desire to change.. indeed, some of these people believe it's their holy mission to "change" us through religious terrorism and intimidation - the latest example of which we've tragically seen last night.

    The West may have turned inward and on itself in the last 30 years, becoming obsessed with nonsense like validation on social media, consumerism and proving to each other how "enlightened" and liberal we are, while castigating those who don't conform to the new consensus but these people won't be "bought off" with iPhones and Sky TV and we need to stop thinking that if we just give them some time this will change, as all it's actually doing is emboldening them as they view us as weak and ripe for attack.

    Bottom line... it's time to stop making excuses and apologising for the criminals and terrorists and to start dealing with them the only way they understand - swiftly and harshly.

    As for the "refugees" - Europe has long established ways for people to legitimately apply to live/work here. There's nothing stopping these people from applying through those systems and absolutely no reason to have the free-for-all we've seen this year which has overwhelmed Europe. If it comes to my son and our security over their (supposed) "rights" to resettle in Europe, well then he and our citizens win every time IMO.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    OK so . Tell me your grand idea that protects ISIS civil rights while as the same time making sure they dont attack anywhere anymore?

    Considering of course these are radicals and only hate and kill. If you have every seen some of the (unedited) footage that comes from ISIS and the systematic, clinical like violence they inflict in their own country, you wouldnt be talking civil rights.

    I'm sorry but the time is close for people like yourself to be told to just be quiet, sit down and let the boys with big boy pants handle this.

    Boys with the big boy pants?

    Dear lord.

    Boys with big boy pants are the ones doing this ffs.

    It is precisely because I have seen the footage that I speak of the importance of civil rights because I do not want to live in a county like Islamic State where people have no civil rights.

    Tell me - when we become just like them what then? Will we have won?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 889 ✭✭✭opiniated


    First and foremost, sincere sympathy to all those affected by this cowardly, sick, massacre.

    Secondly, how should we deal with this horrendous mess?

    Screaming hate at all muslims isn't the answer
    Hate only generates more hate. And nothing causes resentment quicker than being unjustly accused.

    On the other hand, where I have every sympathy for genuine refugees who are fleeing the Syrian crises, I've also watched videos of refugees who were downright arrogant about their "right" to enter Europe.

    I'm a very tolerant person. I don't care what your race or religion is. If you're a good, decent person, that's fine.

    So, if I get uneasy at the attitudes being displayed by some of these migrants, it's not because I'm prejudiced to begin with.

    The next logical step, then, is to question how Isil would view the refugee crisis. It seems to me that the chaos that is the European border at the moment would look like a godsend. The perfect opportunity to infiltrate Europe.

    The question is - how do you separate the genuine refugees who need help, from the radicalised extremists?

    It's an awful quandary. It would be inhuman to turn away those who need, and deserve help. It would also contribute to feelings of resentment by those who are turned away, which will lead to more candidates for radicalisation.

    On the other hand, it's insane to throw our borders open to people who are coming here with the intention of forcibly changing our way of life by violent, murderous, means.

    It's catch 22, and I have no idea how it can be solved.:(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    lawlolawl wrote: »
    Yeah, now is the time to worry about civil rights and fairness.

    Just like the chaps last night did with their victims :rolleyes:

    So let the Russians and Israelis carpet bomb large areas of Iraq and Syria..?

    This needs a surgeons precision approach not just blow the **** out of ordinary people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭MRnotlob606


    Reading an opinion piece in the Guardian at the moment. One of the first sentences is "Muslims will increasingly fear being associated with terror; far-right groups may well fuel more hatred.


    Trying to play a persecution complex on behalf of Muslims in order to attack political opponents is very low for the Guardian. People have been murdered and slaughtered and the Guardian are more concerned with the stigma Muslims will have now. Well it wasn't Muslims who were the intended victims, It was probably white western Parisians.

    How far sighted and myopic of the Guardian for a supposedly "liberal" magazine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    The fact that the president of France IMMEDIATELY closed the borders proves he never believed this lie. He knew it was extremely dangerous and he did it anyways.

    If letting hundreds of thousands of Arabs into your country is safe, WHY SHUT THE ****ING BORDER? Because it's blindingly obvious it's extremely dangerous and he never really believed it was safe, but he never cared about the safety of the French people. That isn't his top priority.

    To prevent the terrorists from leaving


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    kleefarr wrote: »
    Have not seen that Europe 2029 video before. Scary stuff.
    Too little to late I feel.

    You're aware it's a fictional video uploaded by a white power nut, yea?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Oh right, so we are going to pick and choose who gets rights and who doesn't?

    Don't you do that already? Foreigners, Prisoners, and Citizens should all have the same rights? Do they?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭dissed doc


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    If it comes to my son and our security over their (supposed) "rights" to resettle in Europe, well then he and our citizens win every time IMO.

    That may be, but the governments view your son as a potential destabilising force against the dissolution of national governments. Long term, the governmental systems of Europe are quite unified in allowing uncontrolled Islamic immigration. That is what happened and what is happening, based on EU policies and laws. So, what you want, it irrelevant. Your job is to consume and die, or maybe teach your son to be a Muslim. That is what the EU wants, that is what the likes of Peter Sutherland want.

    You are not a citizen, in that, your opinion is of no value or consequence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭thomasj


    I find Isis claim of responsibility a bit iffy.

    In it they mentioned the friendly where hollaind was attending. But it was only a friendly and he was going to the g8 the next day. How could they be certain he would be there?

    Second of all, they mention an attack on the 18th district. But there was no attack on the 18th district?

    Third of all, they said 8 brothers. They didn't name them. Also if they wanted to instill fear into the French . surely they wouldn't give numbers to make the French think there were more at large?

    Seems a bit iffy to me, I'd say it was an Isis inspired rather than direct involvement by the group.


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  • Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Micheal Scary Bagpipes


    The fact that the president of France IMMEDIATELY closed the borders proves he never believed this lie. He knew it was extremely dangerous and he did it anyways.

    If letting hundreds of thousands of Arabs into your country is safe, WHY SHUT THE ****ING BORDER? Because it's blindingly obvious it's extremely dangerous and he never really believed it was safe, but he never cared about the safety of the French people. That isn't his top priority.

    It's to stop terrorists escaping not to stop people coming in ffs


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,613 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Boys with the big boy pants?

    Dear lord.

    Boys with big boy pants are the ones doing this ffs.

    It is precisely because I have seen the footage that I speak of the importance of civil rights because I do not want to live in a county like Islamic State where people have no civil rights.

    Tell me - when we become just like them what then? Will we have won?

    Again, what is your solution to preventing these attacks?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭IrishTrajan


    I'm sure they technically could, if they threw everything at it... but neither have the will or the cash, and deployment of a sufficient force would take a long time as neither (especially Britain) has anything like the heavy lift/transport capabilities that they had even back in 2003 for Operation Telic.

    The will is going to be there, at least for the French. And the cash is already factored into the Defence Budget. They've left Iraq (with military trainers there) and Afghanistan (mostly), it's actually expected that if they stick to the 2% guideline, they're going to have spending surplus to their budgetary requirements in a few years.

    As for the logistic problems, I'm sure the Americans would be only too happy to lend some transport ships if that means getting the French and British completely behind them and intensifying their bombings against Daesh.
    Militarily, Britain has never been weaker (despite Cameron's chest thumping).
    And France is already doing all she can, with over 20,000 personnel on active deployment.

    Where is this military might coming from?
    Cos it aint there at the moment!

    Britain has of course been stronger, and it has been weaker. Britain has tremendous air power and reach, and if it wanted to, it could deploy more aircraft to the region and pummel ISIS.

    Britain can provide more heavy weapons to the Peshmerga or the YPG. Britain can deploy more ships and aircraft with strike ability. Britain can deploy more trainers or more special forces.

    It's expensive, but you think the British really care about money when their future is threatened? These are the guys who subsidize entirely continental armies to fight Napoleon for a decade. If push comes to shove, the British will rip Daesh's head off.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,298 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Once they have passed through Greece (or since Berlin waived this, Hungary), they are not truly refugees. They're economic migrants.

    Is what's going on there terrible? Yes. Should we help? Yes. Should we ignore our own laws (the Dublin Protocols) and let them pick what country they go to so they get the best welfare care? Absolutely not.
    This. So much this. Good luck in selling that idea mind you. The kneejerk feels are not only to be found on the stupid "kill all Muslims" side.
    There is little to be said for sending in say 10,000 western troops but there is plenty to be said for sending in the arms and logistical backing that a Division would require and sending it to the Kurds with technical back up.
    Bad plan. That stuff has a nasty habit of coming back to bite us. The west backed the valiant mujahideen in Afghanistan and if you're of a certain age you likely loved watching Sandy Gall's reports of their successes against the Soviets. And we got the Taliban and Al Qaeda back for our trouble.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,732 ✭✭✭kleefarr


    You're aware it's a fictional video uploaded by a white power nut, yea?

    May be so, but you don't think it is may be heading that way?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    lawlolawl wrote: »
    You and your ilk will get thousands more killed before we collectively decide to get a proper handle on this situation.

    We are not dealing with reasonable people here. Their thinking is Stone Age.

    'My ilk' - you don't even know me but are confident of saying me and my ilk will get thousands of people killed - is this because I object to dropping a nuke on the ME?
    Would a such a strike not kill millions of people?
    Or do those lives not matter?

    I had already worked out that we are not dealing with 'reasonable' people when reading the calls for mass murder to be committed in the ME on this thread. That thinking is indeed Stone Age as you so elegantly put it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 135 ✭✭_oveless_


    Can mods please ban people and delete posts criticizing islam? islam is the biggest victim in all this as people will question and make accusations against muslims as well as criticizing multiculturalism, europe is for everyone this will only be solved by MORE diversity not less.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    opiniated wrote: »
    Secondly, how should we deal with this horrendous mess?

    Screaming hate at all muslims isn't the answer
    Hate only generates more hate. And nothing causes resentment quicker than being unjustly accused.

    It doesn't really matter, I think that the fate of the middle east is sealed once again for another few decades, the obvious thing to do will be to support hardline tinpot dictators who can brutalise the population and keep the west's hand clean of the whole thing. I would expect a subtle shift in the weeks to come, first to full support for Assad in Syria, and then trying to install the next Saddam/Gadaffi in Iraq and Libya.

    I know it's kind of sad, but it's what's going to happen next.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 218 ✭✭LincolnsBeard


    If 10,000 people a week are coming to Europe to live, I have no doubt that 99.9% of them are the same as you and me, with families and the same hopes and dreams as all of us.

    BZZZZZZZ! WRONG!

    They are devout followers of a religion that desires the creation of an Islamic state. Although they themselves may not be actively pushing for this, they and their descendants will in all likelihood support such a thing if the opportunity ever arose in the future.

    You cannot demographically replace the native populations of western civilisation with devout Muslims and expect to arrive at the same civilisation afterward.

    I personally feel that the damage is most likely irreversible at this point. I cannot foresee a large scale rejection of Islam within that community, I believe the refugee/migrant crisis will continue, indigenous people will not produce children at the replacement rate and eventually the Muslim populations will rise from single percentage figures to double percentage figures. The ramifications of this are probably going to be enendingly ****, but that is the destiny for many of Western Europe's largest states.

    Sorry to be so glib but such is life.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    The only language these Islamist animals understand is violence and force. There is no reasoning with them, no amount of pacifism will placate them. Killing them is the only way to neutralise their threat.
    100%

    But the problem is isolating them from the communities they live in.
    It was obvious from the get go last night the armed response unit had to go straight into that theatre, these cnunts don't want money or safe passage they just want to kill and wipe out all Europeans and the entire non Muslim population.


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