Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

iguana

lawlolawl wrote: »

You and your ilk will get thousands more killed before we collectively decide to get a proper handle on this situation.

We are not dealing with reasonable people here. Their thinking is Stone Age.

And what you are espousing will kill 10s of millions. Or does it not matter if the dead people are brown muslims?

Eoin247

Rightwing wrote: »

Britain would do well to stay out of this. It's a war they simply can't win.

This is a war the locals need to be involved in. America must admit it has got the whole thing wrong. Badly wrong. Let the likes of Iran send in their troops and weed out ISIS 1 by 1, this axis of evil bull**** doesn't wash with anyone with any bit of intelligence.

Unfortunately Arabs hate each other just a bit less than they hate the west. Saudi, Qatar etc are happy to let their neighbours kill each other as long as it doesn't threaten their own disgusting regimes.

BoJack Horseman

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Britain has of course been stronger, and it has been weaker. Britain has tremendous air power and reach, and if it wanted to, it could deploy more aircraft to the region and pummel ISIS.

My argument is that if it could... it would.

As I've mentioned.... 6 planes in Cyprus, 8 planes in Qatar & a day-to-day availabilty from blighty of about 12 for domestic use....
The rest of their fleet is not operationally ready, if they wanted them to be, they would be... but, again, no will, no money

Britain can provide more heavy weapons to the Peshmerga or the YPG.

The US has blocked all heavy weapons deliveries to the Kurds.
They only let certain weapons & ATGMs through.

Britain can deploy more ships and aircraft with strike ability.

Britain has only 19 surface ships & zero have strike capability!

Britain can deploy more trainers or more special forces.

Could alright... but that won't beat ISIS.

It's expensive, but you think the British really care about money when their future is threatened?

Yes.... remember, it was only last week that the UK government dropped its plans to attack IS targets in Syria, knowing that they would lose the parliamentary vote as the UK people (and their politicians) don't want it!
... so much for that eh!

If push comes to shove, the British will rip Daesh's head off.

15 years ago, it couldn't conquer Basra....
A weaker british military has genuinely little chance of driving all the way to Raqqa & doing anything meaningful.

Wibbs

_oveless_ wrote: »

Can mods please ban people and delete posts criticizing islam? islam is the biggest victim in all this as people will question and make accusations against muslims as well as criticizing multiculturalism, europe is for everyone this will only be solved by MORE diversity not less.

Hahah…. oh wait, you're serious? So criticising Islam itself a banning/censorship offence and you appeal to authority to back this up? Right. Very "liberal" indeed. Irony bypass time.

Oh and personally I most certainly have major criticisms of "multiculturalism", or at least the liberal version of it. Are we not allowed to have discussions on that either?

Autonomous Cowherd

I cannot help thinking that the widespread availability of small arms and explosives - ie the by-products of the very lucrative armaments industry which is a foundation stone for many advanced economies - are at least partly to blame for the increasing terrorism and asymmetrical warfare we see in modern times.

kleefarr

CB19Kevo wrote: »

-Lock up extremists

No, I don't think we should be wasting money on these guys. Not sure what to do, but to afford them comfort in a western judicial hotel would not be my idea of suitable punishment.

Diamond Doll

99 in critical condition according to the Independent ... death toll may rise a lot.

timthumbni

Discussing the terror attack last night with a friend and he raised a valid point in that if such an attack happened in London would they be able to cope considering the police are not armed?. (In general anyway as opposed to France)

Fleawuss

_oveless_ wrote: »

Can mods please ban people and delete posts criticizing islam?

Quite simply, read it and re read it

Bannasidhe

namloc1980 wrote: »

And that prevents attacks by extremists how?

And military intervention in the ME and demonizing ordinary Muslims is the answer how?

Both will add fuel to the fire - what do we do then?

Kill ALL the Muslims?
Even the ones who are Irish born, bred, and raised?
Shall we kill them at birth or wait until they first say Allah Akbar?

Or perhaps we should make them all wear a Crescent on their clothes so we can easily identify them?

Concentration Camps perhaps?


Do you honestly believe such measures will solve the problem?

I don't. I think that is exactly what ISIS wants because it feeds their 'us against them' propaganda.

freddiek

Wibbs wrote: »

Hahah…. oh wait, you're serious? So criticising Islam itself a banning/censorship offence and you appeal to authority to back this up? Right. Very "liberal" indeed. Irony bypass time.

Oh and personally I most certainly have major criticisms of "multiculturalism", or at least the liberal version of it. Are we not allowed to have discussions on that either?

do you think you are in the right emotional state to moderate this thread??

kleefarr

timthumbni wrote: »

Discussing the terror attack last night with a friend and he raised a valid point in that if such an attack happened in London would they be able to cope considering the police are not armed?. (In general anyway as opposed to France)

They will have plenty of arms available if need be.

BoJack Horseman

timthumbni wrote: »

Discussing the terror attack last night with a friend and he raised a valid point in that if such an attack happened in London would they be able to cope considering the police are not armed?. (In general anyway as opposed to France)

There are substantial numbers of armed Met Police units in London.

They could manage.

hatrickpatrick

Paramite Pie wrote: »

Your the one who keeps bringing it up.

The reality is that there is virtually no organized Christian group engaging in this behaviour (yet) -- only lone gun men or should I say boys/teens. ISIS and Boko Haram etc.. cannot be compared to Westero Baptist Church who merely spout nonsense. History is history and Christianity has mostly left violence behind especially in Europe.

Everytime people mention Islamic Terrorism we don't need constant whataboutery. Please just report posts condemning all/majority muslims or calling for nukes. The mods are waking up to a real mess of a thread here -- we can all help.

You're missing my point. Islam itself is not the problem and Muslims are not the problem, small minorities of f*ckers are the problem. BoJack and others are attempting to claim that because Muslim scripture contains violence and barbarism, that makes Islam itself an evil and violent religion. I am simply asking why they are not applying the same standard to Christian scripture which contains just as much violence and bullsh!t.

Dirty Dingus McGee

_oveless_ wrote: »

Can mods please ban people and delete posts criticizing islam? islam is the biggest victim in all this as people will question and make accusations against muslims as well as criticizing multiculturalism, europe is for everyone this will only be solved by MORE diversity not less.

I think they people who were killed might be bigger victims.

Drumpot

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Here's my thoughts..

We (as in the West) need to accept that there are people out there who don't believe what we do, don't hold the same values as we do, and have no desire to change.. indeed, some of these people believe it's their holy mission to "change" us through religious terrorism and intimidation - the latest example of which we've tragically seen last night.

The West may have turned inward and on itself in the last 30 years, becoming obsessed with nonsense like validation on social media, consumerism and proving to each other how "enlightened" and liberal we are, while castigating those who don't conform to the new consensus but these people won't be "bought off" with iPhones and Sky TV and we need to stop thinking that if we just give them some time this will change, as all it's actually doing is emboldening them as they view us as weak and ripe for attack.

Bottom line... it's time to stop making excuses and apologising for the criminals and terrorists and to start dealing with them the only way they understand - swiftly and harshly.

As for the "refugees" - Europe has long established ways for people to legitimately apply to live/work here. There's nothing stopping these people from applying through those systems and absolutely no reason to have the free-for-all we've seen this year which has overwhelmed Europe. If it comes to my son and our security over their (supposed) "rights" to resettle in Europe, well then he and our citizens win every time IMO.

I agree to a point.

Europe has to put more resources into processing applicants. It can take years for some to have their applications processed. If we really want to help the least we can do is provide decent resources for administration and proper accommodation in between.

If you feel it has to be a choice between the safety of your children and letting in refugees of course you will always default to that view. But it doesn't have to be us v them. One could argue that making it difficult for refugees to flee to Europe actually empowers the terrorists even more and provides them with more soldiers.

This is not a simple war in one country and requires broader thinking solutions. It also requires people to think outside basic "yeh I want to help but not if its gonna be in anyway hard" line of thinking.

Facekicking 2 The Future

_oveless_ wrote: »

Can mods please ban people and delete posts criticizing islam? islam is the biggest victim in all this as people will question and make accusations against muslims as well as criticizing multiculturalism, europe is for everyone this will only be solved by MORE diversity not less.

Let's all join hands and spread a bit wider just to be absolutely sure that we're being violated.

I like how the news headlines are using words like "surprise attacks" and "shocking".
If you invited 1 million Brazilian people to your town would you be surprised and shocked if they started playing soccer on the street?!

Mesrine65

leavingirl wrote: »

And the Kurds were gassed when?

Mesrine65 wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attack

leavingirl wrote: »

1988!

And the invasion was in 2003. Right

Ask & thou shall receive :rolleyes:

questionmark?

_oveless_ wrote: »

Can mods please ban people and delete posts criticizing islam? islam is the biggest victim in all this as people will question and make accusations against muslims as well as criticizing multiculturalism, europe is for everyone this will only be solved by MORE diversity not less.

Are you for real? Ever hear of free speech? If a poster wants to criticise Islam or for that matter any other religion they are free to do so.

You say Europe as if it's a country. It's not, it's a continent and the sooner people realise that the better.

namloc1980

timthumbni wrote: »

Discussing the terror attack last night with a friend and he raised a valid point in that if such an attack happened in London would they be able to cope considering the police are not armed?. (In general anyway as opposed to France)

The ordinary copper is unarmed but they have plenty of armed units to deal with these things.

IrishTrajan

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

I cannot help thinking that the widespread availability of small arms and explosives - ie the by-products of the very lucrative armaments industry which is a foundation stone for many advanced economies - are at least partly to blame for the increasing terrorism and asymmetrical warfare we see in modern times.

These people had automatic weapons. Automatic firearms are banned in France.

It's almost as if terrorists don't care about the law ._.

iguana

namloc1980 wrote: »

Pacifism and appeasement is not the answer. See Europe pre WW2. Maybe if we just love them they'll stop??

Of course the rise of Hitler was directly assisted by the punitive treatment of Germany in the aftermath of WW1 and the appeasement of Nazism by 1930s Britain had everything to do with the popularity of fascism within the aristocratic society of Britain and the popularity of Mosley's BUoF. But don't let the truth get in the way of your hysterical internet warriorisms.:cool:

_oveless_

some racist scumbag posted this on my facebook, this is the kind of warped mentalities who want to stir up racial tension #standwithislam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s

ricero

Its time for ireland as a country to fight against isis and our government to help with the fighting by sending irish troops overseas. I feel cowardly that our country are allowing evil like this to exist in the world and not help combat it with our european allies

suicide_circus

timthumbni wrote: »

Discussing the terror attack last night with a friend and he raised a valid point in that if such an attack happened in London would they be able to cope considering the police are not armed?. (In general anyway as opposed to France)

The police have guns. Lots of guns. They also have anti terrorist swat teams. If this happened in London, there would be an armed response in minutes.

kleefarr

Uk Threat level to stay at SEVERE.
What is the threat level here?

hatrickpatrick

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

You're missing my point. Islam itself is not the problem and Muslims are not the problem, small minorities of f*ckers are the problem. BoJack and others are attempting to claim that because Muslim scripture contains violence and barbarism, that makes Islam itself an evil and violent religion. I am simply asking why they are not applying the same standard to Christian scripture which contains just as much violence and bullsh!t.

The LRA were, at least in some form, a christianity based group that killed and terrorised many until a few years ago

Saipanne

kleefarr wrote: »

Uk Threat level to stay at SEVERE.
What is the threat level here?

Pink.

Bannasidhe

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

Yes, it's the reality of having to deal with a massive threat.

Hitler and WW2 really is a great analogy here.

The World didn't want a second world war and so let him take a couple of territories under the official policy of "appeasement". Well the airy / fairy approach only resulted in an emboldened regime growing cockier and hungrier and in the end we still had a second world war and the Allies HAD to respond with violence and I think everyone universally says we are better off without the Nazis, no ???.

They only understand violence, they will not be rationlised to. They do have Nazi like idealogies in seeking the extermination of certain people.

I have seen the likes of Boko Harem systematically lining up over 5,000 villagers on a bridge and one by one leaning them over the side before popping them in the head and letting their bodies slide into the water, before calmly getting them next victim.

Bombing them out of existence will never make us like that example above.

But then again people like you would watch a harrowing video like the one I described above and still probably say they are just misunderstood and maybe need some one to one counciling or therapy :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: hyperbole much :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Ah shure the rampant antisemitism in Europe which portrayed the Jews as 'not like us'/'not integrated'/'not European' had no impact on why Hitler was appeased until he invaded Poland.

I do agree they have a Nazi like ideology - I disagree that we can only defeat them by adopting the same ideology.

_Kaiser_

_oveless_ wrote: »

some racist scumbag posted this on my facebook, this is the kind of warped mentalities who want to stir up racial tension #standwithislam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s

This isn't twitter. Maybe you'll find more support there seeing as you have such an issue with free debate here.