Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

jon1981

Irish person confirmed dead badly injured in the attack. B*stards


EDIT: misheard on newstalk.

Bannasidhe

namloc1980 wrote: »

So what's your plan for dealing with the likes of those chaps last night?

Not making enemies of ordinary Muslims would be a good place to start.

hatrickpatrick

namloc1980 wrote: »

Again, what is your solution to preventing these attacks?

What's yours? Bombing the Middle East has been tried, and every time it's led to this situation getting worse.

_Kaiser_

dissed doc wrote: »

That may be, but the governments view your son as a potential destabilising force against the dissolution of national governments. Long term, the governmental systems of Europe are quite unified in allowing uncontrolled Islamic immigration. That is what happened and what is happening, based on EU policies and laws. So, what you want, it irrelevant. Your job is to consume and die, or maybe teach your son to be a Muslim. That is what the EU wants, that is what the likes of Peter Sutherland want.

You are not a citizen, in that, your opinion is of no value or consequence.

And this is why the EU needs to fall.. not by islamic terrorism but by political and civil pressure from its member states.

There's no reason we couldn't revert to the former EEC (which worked). It's when the politicians started getting notions of a United States of Europe that the wheels started coming off - as we've seen with referendums being forced though/rerun for the "right" answer, the financial crisis and the response from Europe to its smaller members, the Greek situation, and now this "refugee" crisis.

The EU does not work and hasn't for a long time - if ever!

Pudsy33

_oveless_ wrote: »

Can mods please ban people and delete posts criticizing islam? islam is the biggest victim in all this as people will question and make accusations against muslims as well as criticizing multiculturalism, europe is for everyone this will only be solved by MORE diversity not less.

I think the dead are the biggest victims. I have absolutely no problem with the vast majority of Muslims. I do however have a major issue with Islam.

Stinicker

jon1981 wrote: »

Irish person confirmed dead in the attack.

RIP, yet another Irish Citizen brutally murdered by Islamic Terrorists this year after our three citizens who were killed in Tunisia earlier this year.

smash

So many IS supporters were tweeting about this last night in the most sickening way. These people post openly about their feelings and intentions on forums where they can be easily traced so I think it's time for a major global crack down.

namloc1980

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Not making enemies of ordinary Muslims would be a good place to start.

And that prevents attacks by extremists how?

the evasion_kid

Wibbs wrote: »

This. So much this. Good luck in selling that idea mind you. The kneejerk feels are not only to be found on the stupid "kill all Muslims" side.

Bad plan. That stuff has a nasty habit of coming back to bite us. The west backed the valiant mujahideen in Afghanistan and if you're of a certain age you likely loved watching Sandy Gall's reports of their successes against the Soviets. And we got the Taliban and Al Qaeda back for our trouble.

I wonder how much of the 50 tons of ammunition the Americans air dropped to "moderate" rebels will end up being used back against them at some stage.

not yet

not yet wrote: »

100%

But the problem is isolating them from the communities they live in.
It was obvious from the get go last night the armed response unit had to go straight into that theatre, these cnunts don't want money or safe passage they just want to kill and wipe out all Europeans and the entire non Muslim population.

Just worth keeping in mind the vast majority of people killed by IS and fighting against IS are muslim

Rightwing

IrishTrajan wrote: »

The will is going to be there, at least for the French. And the cash is already factored into the Defence Budget. They've left Iraq (with military trainers there) and Afghanistan (mostly), it's actually expected that if they stick to the 2% guideline, they're going to have spending surplus to their budgetary requirements in a few years.

As for the logistic problems, I'm sure the Americans would be only too happy to lend some transport ships if that means getting the French and British completely behind them and intensifying their bombings against Daesh.



Britain has of course been stronger, and it has been weaker. Britain has tremendous air power and reach, and if it wanted to, it could deploy more aircraft to the region and pummel ISIS.

Britain can provide more heavy weapons to the Peshmerga or the YPG. Britain can deploy more ships and aircraft with strike ability. Britain can deploy more trainers or more special forces.

It's expensive, but you think the British really care about money when their future is threatened? These are the guys who subsidize entirely continental armies to fight Napoleon for a decade. If push comes to shove, the British will rip Daesh's head off.

Britain would do well to stay out of this. It's a war they simply can't win.

This is a war the locals need to be involved in. America must admit it has got the whole thing wrong. Badly wrong. Let the likes of Iran send in their troops and weed out ISIS 1 by 1, this axis of evil bull**** doesn't wash with anyone with any bit of intelligence.

donaghs

buried wrote: »

Jayzus Sounds violent as f**k

It was written after the French Revolution when the aristocracies of Europe tried to invade France, crush the Revolution and restore the French monarchy.

Just google it.

screamer

_oveless_ wrote: »

Can mods please ban people and delete posts criticizing islam? islam is the biggest victim in all this as people will question and make accusations against muslims as well as criticizing multiculturalism, europe is for everyone this will only be solved by MORE diversity not less.

It's called debating and discussion but I get it might be strange concepts if you believe Islam is the biggest victim. It's not the people who died are.

i lovewine

Thank god we have isreal as some sort of a bulwark against these type !!!. most of what they have been saying is coming true now. we need to defend western values warts and all because these animals.

IrishTrajan

jon1981 wrote: »

Irish person confirmed dead in the attack. RIP. B*stards

Source?

Fleawuss

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

unlikely though being an atheist & all.

I'm just reminding you if you want to sh*t on christianity, at least do so from scriptures of Christ.

Chapter & verse... whenever you can find it.

If you are a born again Christian who rejects the entirety of the OT you are in the clear, almost. If you are RC you are incorrect. The OT is part of the bible and it is the divinely inspired word of God. You are not at liberty to dismiss any part of it. Jesus said in Matthew 5:18 that "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." The Law is the Torah. So for some Christians that means the OT and its words still apply. Maybe not for you if you reject the OT: interestingly you lose Crestion myths and the 10 commandments.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

And that prevents attacks by extremists how?

By not encouraging more to become extremists obviously.

CB19Kevo

With so much hate on all sides,I think we may be heading for war,And this war may will be fought on the streets of Europe.
No one will win,Measures must be taken now to stabilize Europe.
- Close the gates
-Register,finger print,photograph,background check all migrants.
- Pull out of Syria,until such time as they invade western states and then annihilate them
-Invest in European anti terror networks and police/army response units.
-Lock up extremists
-Strive for freedom and community spirit
-Try to integrate the muslim's who are already citizens

I think we need to go this route,even still i am willing to bet there will be many more terrorist incidents in Europe,But by doing the above we can limit the damage and still have a safe and tolerant european union in 50 years.

Ctrl Alt Delete

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Tell me - when we become just like them what then? Will we have won?

Yes, it's the reality of having to deal with a massive threat.

Hitler and WW2 really is a great analogy here.

The World didn't want a second world war and so let him take a couple of territories under the official policy of "appeasement". Well the airy / fairy approach only resulted in an emboldened regime growing cockier and hungrier and in the end we still had a second world war and the Allies HAD to respond with violence and I think everyone universally says we are better off without the Nazis, no ???.

They only understand violence, they will not be rationlised to. They do have Nazi like idealogies in seeking the extermination of certain people.

I have seen the likes of Boko Harem systematically lining up over 5,000 villagers on a bridge and one by one leaning them over the side before popping them in the head and letting their bodies slide into the water, before calmly getting them next victim.

Bombing them out of existence will never make us like that example above.

But then again people like you would watch a harrowing video like the one I described above and still probably say they are just misunderstood and maybe need some one to one counciling or therapy :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

_Kaiser_

_oveless_ wrote: »

Can mods please ban people and delete posts criticizing islam? islam is the biggest victim in all this as people will question and make accusations against muslims as well as criticizing multiculturalism, europe is for everyone this will only be solved by MORE diversity not less.

Yep you're right... lets ban/silence people and restrict debate on what is a very critical issue that will determine how the Europe you're defending will unfold in the next decades.

It's this sort of liberal/blinded attitude that encourages extremists to carry out atrocities like we've seen last night.

c montgomery

_oveless_ wrote: »

Can mods please ban people and delete posts criticizing islam? islam is the biggest victim in all this as people will question and make accusations against muslims as well as criticizing multiculturalism, europe is for everyone this will only be solved by MORE diversity not less.

If you want censorship go somewhere else.

Will Europe be at a higher risk by letting more Muslim refugees in? If the answer is yes then we must stop them coming completely.

Paramite Pie

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

There is no way of getting around this without twisting or omitting the truth, so why are we even arguing about it?

Your the one who keeps bringing it up.

The reality is that there is virtually no organized Christian group engaging in this behaviour (yet) -- only lone gun men or should I say boys/teens. ISIS and Boko Haram etc.. cannot be compared to Westero Baptist Church who merely spout nonsense. History is history and Christianity has mostly left violence behind especially in Europe.

Everytime people mention Islamic Terrorism we don't need constant whataboutery. Please just report posts condemning all/majority muslims or calling for nukes. The mods are waking up to a real mess of a thread here -- we can all help.

leavingirl wrote: »

I still cannot find any media showing people with bad injuries. Not nice to see but we need to question everything. I remember after the Boston event, the video of the guy on the wheelchair with no legs being wheeled into shot was replayed over and over again...

The boston bombing happened on live television/internet streams. It's rare to have such first hand footage. It's also rather close minded of you to doubt something simply because you didnt see it with your own eyes.:rolleyes:

The Police are first respondents, not the media. CCTV footage and by-stander footage will emerge over time.

jon1981

Apparently Polish ambassador has come out saying the EU migrant agreement is now null and void and will not receive any more migrants under the agreement. Knee jerk reaction ,maybe, but I suspect this is going to become an almighty nightmare.

efb

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And this is why the EU needs to fall.. not by islamic terrorism but by political and civil pressure from its member states.

There's no reason we couldn't revert to the former EEC (which worked). It's when the politicians started getting notions of a United States of Europe that the wheels started coming off - as we've seen with referendums being forced though/rerun for the "right" answer, the financial crisis and the response from Europe to its smaller members, the Greek situation, and now this "refugee" crisis.

The EU does not work and hasn't for a long time - if ever!

The EU does work, its. Positives fat outweigh its negatives

IrishTrajan

the evasion_kid wrote: »

I wonder how much of the 50 tons of ammunition the Americans air dropped to "moderate" rebels will end up being used back against them at some stage.

Considering that once ammunition is expended, it's gone, very little (if any). Especially considering the Americans aren't deploying ground troops.

namloc1980

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

What's yours? Bombing the Middle East has been tried, and every time it's led to this situation getting worse.

Pacifism and appeasement is not the answer. See Europe pre WW2. Maybe if we just love them they'll stop??

Ronin247

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

The thing is, IS don't care about death or theur own civilians being killed. They don't value life the way most people in the West do.

It's the one thing they have that will keep these atrocities happening.

The kamikaze of the second world war were the same.... Hiroshima and Nagasaki changed that perspective a bit.

opiniated

opiniated wrote: »

The question is - how do you separate the genuine refugees who need help, from the radicalised extremists?

It's an awful quandary. It would be inhuman to turn away those who need, and deserve help. It would also contribute to feelings of resentment by those who are turned away, which will lead to more candidates for radicalisation.

On the other hand, it's insane to throw our borders open to people who are coming here with the intention of forcibly changing our way of life by violent, murderous, means.

It's catch 22, and I have no idea how it can be solved.:(

It sounds to me like you know exactly how it can be solved but you are afraid to say it because it makes you feel bad. Unfortunately we don't need politicians to saw "it's an awful quandary". We all agree it's an awful quandary but sadly life is harsh sometimes and hard decisions need to be made, to at the very least FREEZE MASS IMMIGRATION FROM MUSLIM COUNTRIES.

I'm not hating muslims, I'm just stating the bleeding obvious.

lightspeed

Sky News reporting just now that French authorities reporting that a Syrian passport was found on the body of one of the terrorist that blow themselves up outside the Stade de France.

They also saying that a man in Germany has been arrested regarding yesterdays attacks.

Dempsey

All these people that hold the thought that killing innocent people as a cheap means to an end deserve a brutal death themselves. Fire with fire. A bullet to the head is too good for them.