Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

Wibbs · 14-11-2015 12:35PM

leavingirl wrote: »

You have a lot of posts.

I have more, yet in less than a hundred of your posts we can all see the cut of your jib.

not yet · 14-11-2015 12:35PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I find it quite alarming how quickly this has turned into a debate about Islam and even ISIS.

Can I just post an actual fact here, which bears repeating:

Nobody has claimed responsibility, the authorities have nothing yet but theories on who might have been involved based on precedent, no suspect has yet been taken alive or identified as belonging to any nationality or religion.

Seriously, how are all of you Muslim bashers going to feel if the scumbags involved in this attack turn out to be more European supremacists like that lunatic from Norway a couple of years ago, or Chechen rebels, or Basque separatists, or any number of other active threats aside from Islamists?

I'm not saying it isn't them, I'm just saying we have no proof. I'm rather alarmed at how easily the world is jumping to conclusions based on absolutely nothing except instinct.

Which planet do you live on again..?

BoJack Horseman · 14-11-2015 12:36PM

IrishTrajan wrote: »

People like to think all of Europe is somehow militarily emasculated, but France (and Britain) are still world powers with tremendous power projection capability. France is currently engaged in carrying out airstrikes against ISIS, and they're re-deploying the CdG to the Gulf. No doubt they're going to be a little more intense in their air campaign this time.

Britain has several planes in Qarar.
This isn't the power projection that ISIS will fear....

Militarily Britain is a shadow of her former self.
France is already deployed across africa, again, its ability to really threaten ISIS seems very limited.

MRnotlob606 · 14-11-2015 12:37PM

I remember watching this really liberal video about two months ago about how Isis weren't interested in attacking Europe.. It's going to be difficult to argue for an open borders system now.

screamer · 14-11-2015 12:37PM

kleefarr wrote: »

Did he mention his thanks for opening the borders to them? /quote

Scary but true let's all thank Angela for this. The damage she will have done to Europe will be unprecedented and history will remember her unkindly. Unfortunately that history has yet to be written with many more tragedies to come I fear.

Depp · 14-11-2015 12:39PM

unfortunately military intervention is the only thing thats going to work, and unfortunately its coming, its the only thing these animals understand

not yet · 14-11-2015 12:39PM

Rightwing wrote: »

I think we should let the Israelis and Russians sort this 1 out. The EU countries aren't up for a war, well maybe they are.... a pc fight.

Oh right, The Israelis and the Russians..

A true Bastian of civil rights and Fairness.

Peregrine · 14-11-2015 12:40PM

leavingirl wrote: »

I still cannot find any media showing people with bad injuries. Not nice to see but we need to question everything. I remember after the Boston event, the video of the guy on the wheelchair with no legs being wheeled into shot was replayed over and over again...

So please upload them if anyone can find something. With a warning of course.

This is an emotional period for people as it is. We don't need your conspiracy theories.

You don't believe it? Fine, don't post in this thread. If you post here again, you'll find yourself banned.

Mod

lawlolawl · 14-11-2015 12:42PM

not yet wrote: »

Oh right, The Israelis and the Russians..

A true Bastian of civil rights and Fairness.

Yeah, now is the time to worry about civil rights and fairness.

Just like the chaps last night did with their victims :rolleyes:

Drumpot · 14-11-2015 12:44PM

My first reaction to this is to think of my children. Do I want to allow an open border policy potentially effect my family? If we just stop taking refugees we lower the chance of a terrorist getting into this country, right?

But then I think about it objectively. I take my own personal interest out of the equation. The right thing to do is not panic and sacrifice thousands of people to these monsters. If we choose, as a nation to sacrifice refugees because it's getting hairy, we should take a long hard look at ourselves.

War isn't easy and doing the right thing isn't always easy and like in this case it may require a sacrifice. For us, it's a sacrifice of our comfortable lives where we haven't really a care in the world. Where Joe Duffy deals with the majority of our first world problems.

These people are dieing trying to flee conditions I cannot even imagine for myself let alone my children.

I admit, I am worried even saying this, that my family will be effected, but I think to turn our backs on the refugees makes us allow the fear driven strategy of the terrorists a success. Worse still it makes us complicit in their strategy.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Fleawuss · 14-11-2015 12:44PM

Hollande has said it was an act of war. Is he going to invoke Article 5 of the NATO treaty? I can't find the full IS message claiming responsibility online: can anyone link?

IrishTrajan · 14-11-2015 12:44PM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Britain has several planes in Qarar.
This isn't the power projection that ISIS will fear....

Militarily Britain is a shadow of her former self.
France is already deployed across africa, again, its ability to really threaten ISIS seems very limited.

Britain has aircraft in Qatar, and Cyprus (Turkey opened up Incirlik to NATO, France or the UK could use that), and I believe they are also launching operations from the UAE and Kuwait. Britain also has the ability to fire cruise missiles from ships/submersibles.

Hell, Russia has put 30 aircraft and 4000 men into a warzone and they're in a much worse state than Britain or France. If you think the UK/FRA couldn't snuff out Daesh if they really wanted to, you're living in a dream.

namloc1980 · 14-11-2015 12:44PM

The only language these Islamist animals understand is violence and force. There is no reasoning with them, no amount of pacifism will placate them. Killing them is the only way to neutralise their threat.

FalconGirl · 14-11-2015 12:45PM

I've very little confidence in as a European being protected. IS have a goal to take Europe by 2020. Sounds kind of crazy but the lack of leadership from Merkel and Co on immigration/security issues don't fill me with confidence.

EU ministers off on a tangent making their own decisions without consulting others. Yet when it comes to hounding smaller nations for banking debt they are united. Let's not forget the migrant crisis was only acknowledged after the Greeks were forced to submit. The people that lead us took their eyes of the ball completely.

If IS were to stay true to their goal, the migrant crisis is the perfect trojan horse.

TLDR; I don't think security is a primary concern as it should be at EU Ministerial level.

Ctrl Alt Delete · 14-11-2015 12:45PM

not yet wrote: »

Oh right, The Israelis and the Russians..

A true Bastian of civil rights and Fairness.

Exactly whats needed to deal with the animals who are carrying out these attacks.

Unless, of course you thought the bombings and shootings yesterday were fair and civil :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Bleeding heart liberals like you are half of the bloody problem, and none of you seem to realize these boys don't understand "talking" and "promising to be good".

They only understand violence PERIOD. Like the 500lb bomb from a drone strike through their car sunroof like that other scumbag Jihadi John got.

Bannasidhe · 14-11-2015 12:45PM

lawlolawl wrote: »

Yeah, now is the time to worry about civil rights and fairness.

Just like the chaps last night did with their victims :rolleyes:

Now is exactly the time to worry about Civil Rights or we become the same as the 'chaps last night' - then they have won because European liberal democracy will be destroyed.

Stinicker · 14-11-2015 12:46PM

Last nights attack is only the first of many such attacks we will see coming in the very near future. Let there be no doubt about it, this is an attack on Europe and Christianity and this attack enjoys huge support even amongst moderate Muslims. This attack comes straight from Islamic State and the teachings of the Quran, all Muslims have a duty to kill non believers it says so in their Quran.

The leftwing have been truely exposed for what they are, traitors and enemies of the west. The great hope of Europe ironically lays to the East in Moscow with Vladimir Putin, we are positioning slowly towards the Third World War, last night was only one small battle in what is yet to come. Ireland luckily lies to the periphery although our Government bringing in 4,000 potential terrorists under the guise of Refugees will ensure we do not escape what is to come.

Saudi Arabia is the worlds number one sponsor of terrorism funding Wahhabism hate all over the world and Qatar, Turkey and Saudi Arabia are funding and arming Islamic State. The Middle East and Turkey needs to be completely fenced off and let them do whatever they wish within their "caliphate" it is not up to us to police them. Israel must be defended and ordinary Israelis are dealing with incidents like Paris every second day.

Schengen must be tore up, the EU must be abolished and Military spending across the EU must increase massively. Islam and Mosques should have no place in Europe and Islam should be banned; Islam is not a Religion it is a racist doctrine of hate.

One thing for certain is last night was just the beginning and soon enough people will awaken to what we are truly facing, Liberals and the Left with their political correctness can be thanked for the deaths last night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44vzMNG2fZc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfSwodC_vR8

Europe 2029 is happening now as we speak, and will only intensify, already in the East the Nationalists have awoken and we are facing a similar situation as Europe was in the late 1930's. Except this time the Fascists have come in the guise of anti-fascism just as Winston Churchill predicted.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/12/pictures-50000-polish-nationalists-march-on-warsaw-burn-eu-flags/

leavingirl · 14-11-2015 12:47PM

Peregrine wrote: »

This is an emotional period for people as it is. We don't need your conspiracy theories.

You don't believe it? Fine, don't post in this thread. If you post here again, you'll find yourself banned.

Mod

I never mentioned anything about CT's. You and your strawman argument.

Shame on you you ChickenHawk.

Mod: Banned

Ctrl Alt Delete · 14-11-2015 12:50PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Now is exactly the time to worry about Civil Rights or we become the same as the 'chaps last night' - then they have won because European liberal democracy will be destroyed.

OK so . Tell me your grand idea that protects ISIS civil rights while as the same time making sure they dont attack anywhere anymore?

Considering of course these are radicals and only hate and kill. If you have every seen some of the (unedited) footage that comes from ISIS and the systematic, clinical like violence they inflict in their own country, you wouldnt be talking civil rights.

I'm sorry but the time is close for people like yourself to be told to just be quiet, sit down and let the boys with big boy pants handle this.

lawlolawl · 14-11-2015 12:51PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Now is exactly the time to worry about Civil Rights or we become the same as the 'chaps last night' - then they have won because European liberal democracy will be destroyed.

You and your ilk will get thousands more killed before we collectively decide to get a proper handle on this situation.

We are not dealing with reasonable people here. Their thinking is Stone Age.

Magico Gonzalez · 14-11-2015 12:51PM

Stinicker wrote: »

Last nights attack is only the first of many such attacks we will see coming in the very near future. Let there be no doubt about it, this is an attack on Europe and Christianity and this attack enjoys huge support even amongst moderate Muslims. This attack comes straight from Islamic State and the teachings of the Quran, all Muslims have a duty to kill non believers it says so in their Quran.

The leftwing have been truely exposed for what they are, traitors and enemies of the west. The great hope of Europe ironically lays to the East in Moscow with Vladimir Putin, we are positioning slowly towards the Third World War, last night was only one small battle in what is yet to come. Ireland luckily lies to the periphery although our Government bringing in 4,000 potential terrorists under the guise of Refugees will ensure we do not escape what is to come.

Saudi Arabia is the worlds number one sponsor of terrorism funding Wahhabism hate all over the world and Qatar, Turkey and Saudi Arabia are funding and arming Islamic State. The Middle East and Turkey needs to be completely fenced off and let them do whatever they wish within their "caliphate" it is not up to us to police them. Israel must be defended and ordinary Israelis are dealing with incidents like Paris every second day.

Schengen must be tore up, the EU must be abolished and Military spending across the EU must increase massively. Islam and Mosques should have no place in Europe and Islam should be banned; Islam is not a Religion it is a racist doctrine of hate.

One thing for certain is last night was just the beginning and soon enough people will awaken to what we are truly facing, Liberals and the Left with their political correctness can be thanked for the deaths last night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44vzMNG2fZc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfSwodC_vR8

Europe 2029 is happening now as we speak, and will only intensify, already in the East the Nationalists have awoken and we are facing a similar situation as Europe was in the late 1930's. Except this time the Fascists have come in the guise of anti-fascism just as Winston Churchill predicted.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/12/pictures-50000-polish-nationalists-march-on-warsaw-burn-eu-flags/

What a steaming pile of hate filled moronic nonsense.

smash · 14-11-2015 12:52PM

leavingirl wrote: »

I never mentioned anything about CT's. You and your strawman argument.

Shame on you you ChickenHawk.

Piss off. You're looking for gore videos. There's guaranteed to be plenty of them given it was at a concert, but go do your own digging for the dirt. Plenty of us here don't want or need to see them in order to believe the event happened!

BoJack Horseman · 14-11-2015 12:53PM

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Britain has aircraft in Qatar, and Cyprus (Turkey opened up Incirlik to NATO, France or the UK could use that),

The Cyprus squadron is 6 aircraft.

The RAF left the Kyuwait air base a while back to relocate to Qatar....

There are 6-8 combat aircraft at the Qatari base
As well as a SIGINT plane.

So, 14 jets.... As I said.... nothing to make ISIS fret.

Britain also has the ability to fire cruise missiles from ships/submersibles.

Britain has no surface ship strike capability.
It can only use its submarines, a very expensive way to fire a missile.
And as Libya thought us, Britain was starting to run out after a week!

If you think the UK/FRA couldn't snuff out Daesh if they really wanted to, you're living in a dream.

I'm sure they technically could, if they threw everything at it... but neither have the will or the cash, and deployment of a sufficient force would take a long time as neither (especially Britain) has anything like the heavy lift/transport capabilities that they had even back in 2003 for Operation Telic.

Militarily, Britain has never been weaker (despite Cameron's chest thumping).
And France is already doing all she can, with over 20,000 personnel on active deployment.

Where is this military might coming from?
Cos it aint there at the moment!

hatrickpatrick · 14-11-2015 12:53PM

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

OK so . Tell me your grand idea that protects ISIS civil rights while as the same time making sure they dont attack anywhere anymore?

Nobody is talking about the civil rights of ISIS, but of the civilians they share countries with if the "turn the whole middle east into a crater" morons get their way.

IrishTrajan · 14-11-2015 12:53PM

Drumpot wrote: »

These people are dieing trying to flee conditions I cannot even imagine for myself let alone my children..

Once they have passed through Greece (or since Berlin waived this, Hungary), they are not truly refugees. They're economic migrants.

Is what's going on there terrible? Yes. Should we help? Yes. Should we ignore our own laws (the Dublin Protocols) and let them pick what country they go to so they get the best welfare care? Absolutely not.

Harry Palmr · 14-11-2015 12:53PM

Britain and France do still have an ability to project power what the UK in particular does not have is the will to use it, of course 150 dead in London would change that quickly enough.

However the best approach for the west would be to arm-wrestle Turkey to stop inhibiting the Kurds and to back the Peshmerga. They are on the ground, know the environment and are brought up to defend and kill. They had a notable local success yesterday recapturing Sinjar.

There is little to be said for sending in say 10,000 western troops but there is plenty to be said for sending in the arms and logistical backing that a Division would require and sending it to the Kurds with technical back up.

namloc1980 · 14-11-2015 12:53PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Now is exactly the time to worry about Civil Rights or we become the same as the 'chaps last night' - then they have won because European liberal democracy will be destroyed.

So what's your plan for dealing with the likes of those chaps last night?

Sunflower 27 · 14-11-2015 12:54PM

The thing is, IS don't care about death or theur own civilians being killed. They don't value life the way most people in the West do.

It's the one thing they have that will keep these atrocities happening.

futonic · 14-11-2015 12:55PM

How do we prevent this happening? Is it possible? Technology has moved on to such an extent that authorities very soon will not be able to surveil communications in the ways of the past. I think the future could make this kind of event more frequent and cant see a way it can be prevented. (I'm not particularly talking about Islam, but any random set of nutters with some perceived cause)

Mesrine65 · 14-11-2015 12:55PM

Stinicker wrote: »

a racist doctrine of hate

.

Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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