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Couple with six children killed in Palestine

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    #602
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    You don't think the stabbing of that family was indiscriminate?.


    They were targeted because they were settlers.

    CruelCoin wrote: »
    The combination of your provided links, all of which point to israeli consequence without bothering their hole to mention cause.

    So nobody or no article linked referenced anything that happened to mention Jews, Judaism etc but you refuse to admit it.

    The cause is the colonisation/occupation. It's not possible to brutalise a people for over 40 years unless you institutionalise viewing them in a negative light, as 'children of a lesser god'. The lack of prosecution for this kind of thing underlines this stance, as it gives tacit approval to what cannot be publically acknowledged for PR purposes.


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    #603
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Precisely. If it was a band of Paddies decided they owned a few million acres of the middle east because some sky fairy said so and they set up a state with racist citizenship laws, they'd equally be land grabbing supremacist criminals.


    Absolutely. Religion, ethnicity and nationality are irrelevant. It's what states and people do that's important and of real-world significance. Robert Mugabe, to think of an example, is no more and no less a homophobic racist because he's "black" and his ethnicity is not the cause of justified criticism of his deeds.


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    #604
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    CruelCoin wrote: »

    You've made a claim that israelis have under observation" deliberately targeted kids. Please provide a link?
    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Sorry, i meant "link" salad.

    The whole "can you give a link for that" ruins discussion.

    LOL


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    #605
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    In this particular imaginary scenario, there is no car stolen, as the old car was crushed.

    Bullish!t. Land is land. The settlers do not own it. Anything they have done with it is illegal.


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    #606
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    No
    Nodin wrote: »
    They were targeted because they were settlers.




    So nobody or no article linked referenced anything that happened to mention Jews, Judaism etc but you refuse to admit it.

    The cause is the colonisation/occupation. It's not possible to brutalise a people for over 40 years unless you institutionalise viewing them in a negative light, as 'children of a lesser god'. The lack of prosecution for this kind of thing underlines this stance, as it gives tacit approval to what cannot be publically acknowledged for PR purposes.

    I've always seen it as a reaction. The palestinians kidnap a soldier, israel levels a neighbourhood. The palestinians launch a rocket, israel bombs a suburb. The reaction is disproportionate, but angry bears will do what angry bears will do when prodded with a stick.


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    #607
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    I've always seen it as a reaction. The palestinians kidnap a soldier, israel levels a neighbourhood. The palestinians launch a rocket, israel bombs a suburb. The reaction is disproportionate, but angry bears will do what angry bears will do when prodded with a stick.

    I see it the other way.

    Israeli's steal land and allow settlers in -- Palestinians fight back.
    IDF bomb city -- youth join Hamas to fight back.
    IDF target schools and hospitals and murder Palestinians -- Hamas try to strike back by firing rusty bucket rockets.
    Israeli cicilians celebrate innocent Palestinian deaths -- youth stabs Israelis.

    Bears will do that when constantly prodded with a stick.


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    #608
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    I've always seen it as a reaction. The palestinians kidnap a soldier, israel levels a neighbourhood. The palestinians launch a rocket, israel bombs a suburb. The reaction is disproportionate, but angry bears will do what angry bears will do when prodded with a stick.

    ...then I'd suggest educating yourself as to the ongoing situation.


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    #609
    speedboatchase
    Registered Users Posts: 5,779 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    No
    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Usually pro-Israeli guff that excuses their crimes. Your post has done nothing to look at what is going on. It's a roll your eyes to the sky job.

    "Isn't it terrible, they hate each other, sure what can you do".

    Why not look at the conditions that have created the current situation, i.e. the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians?

    If it wasn't so serious it'd be funny that posters here talk about Palestinians hating Israelis. Wtf do you expect after seventy years of Zionist terrorism?

    What realistic, rational scenarios would you posit for any kind of workable, peaceful solution to status quo? If that is in fact something you're interested in. I genuinely want to know because these threads always become more personal and angrier the longer they continue.

    When I was younger I remember how people were genuinely committed to finding peace for this intractable conflict, but in today's viral landscape, most people choose 'solidarity' with one side, dredge up the same hyperbolic talking points, and swallow their side's propaganda for virtue signalling on social media.


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    #610
    speedboatchase
    Registered Users Posts: 5,779 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    No
    Nodin wrote: »
    ...then I'd suggest educating yourself as to the ongoing situation.

    Relax with the condescension, lads.


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    #611
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,857 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    What realistic, rational scenarios would you posit for any kind of workable, peaceful solution to status quo? If that is in fact something you're interested in. I genuinely want to know because these threads always become more personal and angrier the longer they continue.

    When I was younger I remember how people were genuinely committed to finding peace for this intractable conflict, but in today's viral landscape, most people choose 'solidarity' with one side, dredge up the same hyperbolic talking points, and swallow their side's propaganda for virtue signalling on social media.

    Trials for all political and military leaders who may have committed war crimes, regardless of nationality or religion (if any) with no immunity whatsoever.

    Respect for international law. Removal of all criminals living outside international law. These criminals either leave immediately or face prosecution for their crimes.

    Either Israel's military being slimmed down as it is a massive threat to peace with regard to the Palestinians or else ensuring Palestine has an adequate military to protect itself from the Israeli threat.

    Immediate humanitarian aid for all those regardless of nationality or religion (if any) in need of help with regard to housing, water, education, health, etc.

    Allow all refugees to return to their homes. If their homes have been destroyed, they must be accomadated as close as possible to their original homes. If some refugees choose not to return home they must be fully compensated by the state that expelled them. This applies to all refugees expelled from Israel/Palestine or refugees who fled to I/P as a result of expulsion/persecution elsewhere. Again applies to all regardless of nationality or religion (if any).

    That'd do for a start off the top of my head.


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    #612
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Either Israel's military being slimmed down as it is a massive threat to peace with regard to the Palestinians or else ensuring Palestine has an adequate military to protect itself from the Israeli threat.

    Israel's military is being driven by religious dominated policies. They continue to protect those that are most likely to get killed and those people are the Jewish settlers ignore the rest of secular country. This task is make virtually impossible since for Palestinian Muslims all Jews have a target on their back.


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    #613
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    If a soldier shoots a child knowing its a child and unarmed, then that's inexcusable. If a palestinian stabs an israeli civilian, then its inexcusable.

    In a non apartheid society you would expect both killers to be treated similarly.

    Have you any examples of the home of the families of idf members being demolished as collective punishment of an entire family for the actions of an individual

    Also would you have an example of a Palestinian who was sentenced to be transferred to another department in their employment for killing an unarmed israeli child?


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    #614
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    What realistic, rational scenarios would you posit for any kind of workable, peaceful solution to status quo? If that is in fact something you're interested in. I genuinely want to know because these threads always become more personal and angrier the longer they continue.

    When I was younger I remember how people were genuinely committed to finding peace for this intractable conflict, but in today's viral landscape, most people choose 'solidarity' with one side, dredge up the same hyperbolic talking points, and swallow their side's propaganda for virtue signalling on social media.

    Everyone says they're for "peace". Israel wants "peace" so that it can carry on doing what its doing with even less expense.

    Israeli colonisation is a fact, not propaganda.


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    #615
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    No
    RustyNut wrote: »
    In a non apartheid society you would expect both killers to be treated similarly.

    Have you any examples of the home of the families of idf members being demolished as collective punishment of an entire family for the actions of an individual

    Also would you have an example of a Palestinian who was sentenced to be transferred to another department in their employment for killing an unarmed israeli child?

    No for both obviously, but that doesn't excuse stabbings and i think you know that.


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    #616
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    No for both obviously, but that doesn't excuse stabbings and i think you know that.

    Well what do you think they should do? And please be specific.


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    #617
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    No
    Nodin wrote: »
    Well what do you think they should do? And please be specific.
    Stop with the patronising, thanks"

    A halt on settling. A freeze on borders as stands right now, a release of any and all political prisoners, a return to the negotiating table (sans hamas, who simply will never accept the existence of an israeli state) without any preconditions of any kind. Al that good stuff.

    Its all a fantasy though, as neither side will ever adher to this.
    Peace will have to be imposed via Nato (the UN being as inneffective as it is), not agreed on, not negotiated for, just imposed. I don't believe anything else will work.


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    #618
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Peace will have to be imposed via Nato (the UN being as inneffective as it is), not agreed on, not negotiated for, just imposed. I don't believe anything else will work.
    Hang on, you think the US vetoes everything the UN will ever do to stop Israel but they're going to let NATO put troops on the ground there? WHA?!?!


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    #619
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Stop with the patronising, thanks"

    A halt on settling. A freeze on borders as stands right now, a release of any and all political prisoners, a return to the negotiating table (sans hamas, who simply will never accept the existence of an israeli state) without any preconditions of any kind. Al that good stuff.

    Its all a fantasy though, as neither side will ever adher to this.
    Peace will have to be imposed via Nato (the UN being as inneffective as it is), not agreed on, not negotiated for, just imposed. I don't believe anything else will work.

    I meant what do you think the Palestinians should do, faced with the current situation.


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    #620
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    No
    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Hang on, you think the US vetoes everything the UN will ever do to stop Israel but they're going to let NATO put troops on the ground there? WHA?!?!

    Fine... nato, un, nana, asshata, whatever collection of nations as needed to put boots on the ground.

    I don't care what the acronym is.


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    #621
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Fine... nato, un, nana, asshata, whatever collection of nations as needed to put boots on the ground.

    I don't care what the acronym is.
    So your solution for the Palestinian people to stop their country being stolen and their children being bombed is to invoke a non-existent group represented by an acronym cobbled together for purely "comedic" value?
    Have you forwarded this suggestion to them for consideration?


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    #622
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Nodin wrote: »
    I meant what do you think the Palestinians should do, faced with the current situation.

    Not stab people, shoot people or drive over them with vans. Or are you somehow going to justify today's murders as well?


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    #623
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Not stab people, shoot people or drive over them with vans. Or are you somehow going to justify today's murders as well?

    Ahh yes, I asked you for some specific ideas earlier. Any luck coming with some?


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    #624
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Nodin wrote: »
    Ahh yes, I asked you for some specific ideas earlier. Any luck coming with some?

    Not stab people, shoot people or drive over them with vans would be a good start.

    Perhaps you have some ideas that don't involve murder or attempted murder?


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    #625
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Not stab people, shoot people or drive over them with vans would be a good start. ?

    So you've no solutions whatsoever? Not one? Yet here you are demanding a people that been under the boot for the last 50 years lie there and take it.
    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Perhaps you have some ideas that don't involve murder or attempted murder?

    BDS springs to mind, and keeping the pressure on the EU to stand up to the US. That seems to be two more than some can provide.


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    #626
    mad muffin
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    Another lunatic Palestinian has ploughed his car into people standing at a bus stop. Then he proceeds to hack to death any survivors with a neat clever.

    Israelis are under serious attack from these blood thirsty maniacal terrorist. :mad:


    http://hotair.com/archives/2015/10/13/video-palestinian-terrorist-runs-over-israelis-hacks-one-to-death/


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    #627
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,857 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    mad muffin wrote: »
    Another lunatic Palestinian has ploughed his car into people standing at a bus stop. Then he proceeds to hack to death any survivors with a neat clever.

    Israelis are under serious attack from these blood thirsty maniacal terrorist. :mad:


    http://hotair.com/archives/2015/10/13/video-palestinian-terrorist-runs-over-israelis-hacks-one-to-death/

    Shall we do a count of Palestinians killed by Israelis and Israelis killed by Palestinians? :rolleyes:


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    #628
    TommyKnocker
    Registered Users Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭TommyKnocker


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    I've always seen it as a reaction. The palestinians kidnap a soldier, israel levels a neighbourhood. The palestinians launch a rocket, israel bombs a suburb. The reaction is disproportionate, but angry bears will do what angry bears will do when prodded with a stick.

    EXACTLY!!!!! And the Palestinians have been prodded and poked with a stick for the last 48 years.


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    #629
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    No
    TommyKnocker wrote: »
    EXACTLY!!!!! And the Palestinians have been prodded and poked with a stick for the last 48 years.

    So the best thing to do would be to stop the prodding both ways, yes?

    This would include: no more stabbings, no more bombings, free travel to holy sites, unblockaded ports, recognition of the israeli states right to existence, etc etc. And for the love of the ****ing sky wizard, no more Acme(tm) build-it-yerself rockets.

    But meh, parts of this notion has already been ridiculed by the others above.


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    #630
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,857 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    So the best thing to do would be to stop the prodding both ways, yes?

    This would include: no more stabbings, no more bombings, free travel to holy sites, unblockaded ports, recognition of the israeli states right to existence, etc etc. And for the love of the ****ing sky wizard, no more Acme(tm) build-it-yerself rockets.

    But meh, parts of this notion has already been ridiculed by the others above.

    So no right to exist for Palestine?

    What about no more US taxpayer donated rockets?

    What about the removal of criminal settlers?

    No more house demolitions?


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    #631
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    No
    Zebra3 wrote: »
    So no right to exist for Palestine?

    What about no more US taxpayer donated rockets?

    What about the removal of criminal settlers?

    No more house demolitions?

    All covered under etc etc.

    I'm not going sit here and list all the grievances both sides hold (there are many).

    Stop being pedantic, you know full well i meant "stop all the bad ****"


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