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Couple with six children killed in Palestine

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  • Options
    #482
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    justanotherone wrote: »
    I'm more concerned with your apparent solution.

    It seems, well, "final".

    Godwin'd.

    Nobody is suggesting that they should be killed because they're Jews. What's being suggested is that they should be regarded as military targets because colonisation of other people's land for political reasons and by force is a military activity, just like launching rockets is a military activity.

    I have yet to see anyone justify how this is not the case. I'd prefer if nobody killed others, but if civilian fighters are fair game then civilian fighters are fair game. Israel has consistently tried to have its cake and eat it, and this is what people are taking issue with.


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    #483
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    IrishTrajan wrote: »
    I don't know how many times I have to say this, but you're wrong, and international law disagrees with you.

    It's hard to believe how easily the pro-palestinians on this thread have p***ed away their supposed moral authority by their justification for the murder of civilians.

    Also I'd bet the thread would be quickly closed if the same things were said about any other group but Israelis.


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    #484
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Nodin wrote: »
    Given there's no legal way to deal with them, what would you suggest?

    What would you suggest?

    Murder?


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    #485
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    the settlers are not civilians. they are deliberately bringing themselves into areas which belong to the state of palestine, IE those outside the pre 1948 borders

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #486
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    It's hard to believe how easily the pro-palestinians on this thread have p***ed away their supposed moral authority by their justification for the murder of civilians.

    Also I'd bet the thread would be quickly closed if the same things were said about any other group but Israelis.

    Yet again, I'm not justifying it. I'm objecting to any differentiation between Israeli settlers and Hamas militants. Both are militant terrorists, they merely use different methods to achieve their ends.


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  • Options
    #487
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    What would you suggest?

    Murder?

    Id suggest they resist the illegal occupation and colonization of their land by all means possible.


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    #488
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    No
    MakeEmLaugh wrote: »
    Are Israelis fears of Palestinian violence justified?

    Yes.

    The Israelis have on all sides nations which have sworn to pursue its destruction.

    Being calm and unafraid under those circumstances would be idiocy in the extreme.


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    #489
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,635 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Yes.

    The Israelis have on all sides nations which have sworn to pursue its destruction.

    Being calm and unafraid under those circumstances would be idiocy in the extreme.

    Continually making trouble with your neighbours wouldn't help either.


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    #490
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    No
    tayto lover wrote: »
    Continually making trouble with your neighbours wouldn't help either.

    That wasn't the question asked by the OP.

    Question was are the fears justified and the answer is yes they are.

    "Why" was mentioned nowhere.


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    #491
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,635 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    That wasn't the question asked by the OP.

    Question was are the fears justified and the answer is yes they are.

    "Why" was mentioned nowhere.

    My answer was also "Yes" for the reasons I have given.


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    #492
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    The Israelis have on all sides nations which have sworn to pursue its destruction.

    Complete and utter nonsense. Peace deals with both Jordan and Egypt say otherwise, but you shouldn't let facts get in the way of things.
    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Being calm and unafraid under those circumstances would be idiocy in the extreme.

    Idiocy would be pretending that peace deals don't exist.....


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    #493
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,857 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    What would you suggest?

    Murder?

    Nobody was murdered.

    Two Israeli criminals breaking international law were killed by Palestinians resisting an evil occupation.


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    #494
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    No
    wes wrote: »
    Idiocy would be pretending that peace deals don't exist.....

    Not sure if you've noticed, but peace deals are no barrier to violence, see: Palestine, ukraine, sudan, et al.


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    #495
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Not sure if you've noticed, but peace deals are no barrier to violence, see: Palestine, ukraine, sudan, et al.

    Well, last I check peace deals with both Egypt and Jordan are still going strong. So your statement:
    CruelCoin wrote: »
    The Israelis have on all sides nations which have sworn to pursue its destruction.

    Is clearly bull****. Bull**** repeated ad nauseum, for some reason, that deliberately ignores the peace treaties that already exist, and more importantly that have held for a long time.

    That is not to even mention the decade old offer of peace from the Arab league that Israel is still ignoring for some reason.

    So lets take stock, peace deals with 2 neighbors, that are holding strong. Also, an offer of peace from the rest of the Arab league, that Israel has ignored for over a decade. Hmmm, I think it fair to say that at best your statement was hyperbole, if not out right bull.


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    #496
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Yes.

    The Israelis have on all sides nations which have sworn to pursue its destruction.

    Being calm and unafraid under those circumstances would be idiocy in the extreme.
    they brought it on themselves by being the biggest terrorist state in the middle east.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #497
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    RustyNut wrote: »
    Id suggest they resist the illegal occupation and colonization of their land by all means possible.

    If you mean murder then just say it and stop using weasel words.


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    #498
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Yet again, I'm not justifying it. I'm objecting to any differentiation between Israeli settlers and Hamas militants. Both are militant terrorists, they merely use different methods to achieve their ends.

    Of course you are justifying it. You've completely lost any kind of moral position you thought you had with your position on this thread


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    #499
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Of course you are justifying it. You've completely lost any kind of moral position you thought you had with your position on this thread

    I must say I'm quite impressed at how anybody could distill "I do not approve of any killing of any human beings, ever" into "I think it's ok for settlers to be murdered in front of their families". Care to explain the process of how that translation works?

    What I am saying is that I don't find the killing of settlers to be worse than the killing of rocket firers, as I regard both as different classes of terrorists. But I find the killing of anyone, including rocket firers, to be f*cking appalling. So I'm not justifying killing, I'm merely refusing to give settler terrorists any higher moral standing than Hamas terrorists.


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    #500
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    If you mean murder then just say it and stop using weasel words.

    How do you define murder?


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    #501
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    RustyNut wrote: »
    How do you define murder?

    How do you define murder?


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    #502
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    I must say I'm quite impressed at how anybody could distill "I do not approve of any killing of any human beings, ever" into "I think it's ok for settlers to be murdered in front of their families". Care to explain the process of how that translation works?

    What I am saying is that I don't find the killing of settlers to be worse than the killing of rocket firers, as I regard both as different classes of terrorists. But I find the killing of anyone, including rocket firers, to be f*cking appalling. So I'm not justifying killing, I'm merely refusing to give settler terrorists any higher moral standing than Hamas terrorists.

    You ARE justifying murder. Equating settlers with terrorist rocket firers whose sole intention is to indiscriminately murder is not only ridiculous but pretty disgusting as well. I don't like the settlers and don't agree with them being in the west bank but I don't consider them "fair game" like you do.

    The pro-palestinians have really shown their true colours on this thread, I'd encourage those who consider themselves to be anti-settlement but have more moderate views to disassociate themselves from your position.


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    #503
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    You ARE justifying murder. Equating settlers with terrorist rocket firers whose sole intention is to indiscriminately murder is not only ridiculous but pretty disgusting as well. I don't like the settlers and don't agree with them being in the west bank but I don't consider them "fair game" like you do.
    Why is it worse to fire unguided home made garbage into Israel than to deliberately blast playing children to pieces in Gaza with the most sophisticated weaponry on earth?
    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    The pro-palestinians have really shown their true colours on this thread, I'd encourage those who consider themselves to be anti-settlement but have more moderate views to disassociate themselves from your position.
    Yeah sure, everybody agrees with you now. Yeah. You said it so it must be true.


  • Options
    #504
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    How do you define murder?
    Um, you're the one using the phrase, not him.


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    #505
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    You ARE justifying murder. Equating settlers with terrorist rocket firers whose sole intention is to indiscriminately murder is not only ridiculous but pretty disgusting as well. I don't like the settlers and don't agree with them being in the west bank but I don't consider them "fair game" like you do.
    ...........

    Given that leaving them be just leads to further settlement expansion, seemingly without any great effort or loss on the Israeli states part, what would you suggest the Palestinians do as an alternative strategy to targeting them?


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    #506
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    You ARE justifying murder. Equating settlers with terrorist rocket firers whose sole intention is to indiscriminately murder is not only ridiculous but pretty disgusting as well. I don't like the settlers and don't agree with them being in the west bank but I don't consider them "fair game" like you do.

    I don't consider anyone "fair game". Hence I an not justifying murder. But if you justify the murder of one class of terrorists but not the other, you're a hypocrite. Settlers' sole intention is to indiscriminately force people from their homes and from their farmland. Rocket firers' sole intention is to force people from their homes and farmland. The only difference is the tactics used, and even that is barely different at all.
    The pro-palestinians have really shown their true colours on this thread, I'd encourage those who consider themselves to be anti-settlement but have more moderate views to disassociate themselves from your position.

    Given that I condemn killing of any kind, I'd actually say I'm far more moderate than many people on either side of this debate. You're not taking issue with that, what you're taking issue with is my refusal to place settlers higher than rocket firers on my scale of "righteousness". And I stand over that decision. Making people homeless by forcing them from their homes at gunpoint is every bit as evil as firing rockets into their land. I have absolutely no qualms about openly stating this.


  • Options
    #507
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Nodin wrote: »
    Given that leaving them be just leads to further settlement expansion, seemingly without any great effort or loss on the Israeli states part, what would you suggest the Palestinians do as an alternative strategy to targeting them?

    Use peaceful means.


  • Options
    #508
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    I don't consider anyone "fair game". Hence I an not justifying murder. But if you justify the murder of one class of terrorists but not the other, you're a hypocrite. Settlers' sole intention is to indiscriminately force people from their homes and from their farmland. Rocket firers' sole intention is to force people from their homes and farmland. The only difference is the tactics used, and even that is barely different at all.



    Given that I condemn killing of any kind, I'd actually say I'm far more moderate than many people on either side of this debate. You're not taking issue with that, what you're taking issue with is my refusal to place settlers higher than rocket firers on my scale of "righteousness". And I stand over that decision. Making people homeless by forcing them from their homes at gunpoint is every bit as evil as firing rockets into their land. I have absolutely no qualms about openly stating this.

    Weasel words. You sound like a Sinn Fein/IRA spokesman during the troubles.

    The pro-palestinians constantly put themselves in a higher moral position but you've shown your true colours in this thread and no amount of squirming can get you out of it. You've shown yourself to be a complete hypocrite.


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    #509
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    the settlers deliberately go into territory belonging to the state of palestine to take it over. they force people from their homes, stealing their land, slaughtering and raping as they go. the palestinians fire ineffective heaps of rust back into israel which do little. so i think actually the settlers are probably worse TBH. the palestinians have tried peaceful means and they haven't worked. the israely government and military have never tried peaceful means including fcuking back within their own borders.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #510
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Use peaceful means.

    A bit too vague. As is well documented, the UN route is blocked thus barring legal recourse.

    Would you care to be more specific?


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    #511
    Public_Enema
    Closed Accounts Posts: 269 ✭✭Public_Enema


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Use peaceful means.

    Well that's pretty naive, considering the Palestinians are being oppressed and murdered on a daily basis by Ziofascists. Unfortunately, violence will always be an enevitable consequesnce of Israeli brutality.


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