The Hazards of Belief

recedite · 12-08-2015 4:21pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Saudi Arabia establishes a new law that declares that atheism is a form of terrorism.

http://iheu.org/saudi-arabias-new-law-defines-atheism-as-terrorism-bans-all-criticism-of-government/

It's a bit rich that the foremost purveyors of islamic terrorism elsewhere should consider atheism as a form of terrorism.

Seems to be a law against any form of dissent, not against terrorism.
The House of Saudi can call it a law against terrorism if they want, but they are only fooling themselves.

I suppose if you want to cosy up to the self-proclaimed leaders of the free world in the USA, while cracking down on domestic freedoms, this is what you do. Declare a war on terror, while continuing to endorse it, and while bombing the $hit out of your neighbours.

MrPudding · 12-08-2015 6:54pm

recedite wrote: »

The guy looks very fit for 78 year old, he looks like he comes from the same firebrand stock as the Rev Ian Paisley.
If other religious preachers were more honest, we would see a lot more of this kind of thing. Because generally speaking, different religions are inherently blasphemous in relation to each other.
When they co-operate to get a blasphemy law through, or when they all attend some state memorial service together, they must compartmentalise this antipathy to each other. To get respect from society, they must officially pretend that they are all respectful of each other.

What exact offence is he being charged with anyway? I would presume blasphemy, which was abolished in England and Wales, but not in Norn Iron.
But the RTE articles says he is "accused of causing a grossly offensive message to be sent." AFAIK that is the fairly new facebook/twitter offence designed to prevent online bullying, so would not be relevant to what a preacher says in church.

It could be that the crown prosecution service have purposely charged him under the wrong offence, knowing that the charges will not stick. That way everybody can save face, and go back to their own hypocritical existence.

I think the sermon was streamed over the interflap, hence the nature of the charge.

MrP

recedite · 13-08-2015 1:03am

MrPudding wrote: »

I think the sermon was streamed over the interflap, hence the nature of the charge.

MrP

Its a bit tenuous calling that "sending a message". Surely the blasphemy law is more directly relevant here.
But if the blasphemy law was invoked, then either the pastor, or the muslims, or the blasphemy law itself would end up suffering a defeat.

Peregrinus · 13-08-2015 1:34am

recedite wrote: »

Seems to be a law against any form of dissent, not against terrorism.
The House of Saudi can call it a law against terrorism if they want, but they are only fooling themselves.

I suppose if you want to cosy up to the self-proclaimed leaders of the free world in the USA, while cracking down on domestic freedoms, this is what you do. Declare a war on terror, while continuing to endorse it, and while bombing the $hit out of your neighbours.

This. Whether a particular act, or a particular stance, is labelled "terrorist" often tells us more about the person doing the labelling than it does about the act or stance being labelled.

silverharp · 13-08-2015 7:26am

https://www.rawstory.com/2015/08/money-hungry-georgia-church-kicks-out-92-year-old-woman-because-she-didnt-tithe-while-ill/

‘Money hungry’ Georgia church kicks out 92-year-old woman because she didn’t tithe while ill

A 92-year-old Georgia woman was kicked out of her church after more than 50 years as a member because she didn’t give enough money.

Josephine King received a letter from Bainbridge’s First African Baptist Church informing her that she was “no longer considered a member” because she had failed to maintain “constant and consistent financial and physical participation,” reported WALB-TV.

Relatives said King had been ill for several months and was essentially a shut-in, which explained her poor attendance and failure to tithe.

A nephew said King was stunned and disappointed by the letter, which was signed by Senior Pastor Derrick Mike.

“You have to have money to make these churches run, but it’s not about money,” said her nephew, Gerald Simmons. “It’s about God. You have to put God first.”

Simmons said his aunt isn’t the first church member who was removed for not tithing.

A Florida church sent a $1,000 collection notice to a single mother who failed to tithe in a similar case that attracted national attention.

“You shouldn’t chase the individuals down,” Simmons said. “You shouldn’t do that. If that’s the case, you’re money hungry.”

MrPudding · 13-08-2015 8:22am

recedite wrote: »

Its a bit tenuous calling that "sending a message". Surely the blasphemy law is more directly relevant here.
But if the blasphemy law was invoked, then either the pastor, or the muslims, or the blasphemy law itself would end up suffering a defeat.

It might seem tenuous to you, but it is far from tenuous in respect to that particular legislation. The common meaning of a word, or how it is generally interpreted by most people is irrelevant. All that matters is how that word is defined in the legislation and wether the act in question satisfies that particular definition. In this particular case I believe the act does satisfy the requirements of the legislation.

All that said, and as much as I find this particular person to be a most objectionable specimen, I can't bring myself to support this attempted prosecution.

MrP

Nodin · 13-08-2015 11:54am

Somebody opens the can marked "Who is a Jew?", worms escape en masse

"Jerusalem - Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been scrambling to extinguish a firestorm after his religious affairs minister questioned the Jewishness of hundreds of thousands of North American Jews.
Speaking about followers of the most progressive branch of Judaism, known as Reform, David Azoulay said last month, "I can't allow myself to say that such a person is a Jew."
His comments have deeply embarrassed Netanyahu because polls show more than one-third of American Jews identify with Reform Judaism.
The movement, the biggest Jewish denomination in the US, makes large donations to Israel, and many of its members are among Israel's staunchest supporters."
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/08/outrage-israeli-politician-reform-jew-comment-150804142326264.html

Thargor · 13-08-2015 1:36pm

Hope nobody ever does that with the Irish-americans, they'll blow the whole deal!

PopePalpatine · 13-08-2015 6:13pm

Thargor wrote: »

Hope nobody ever does that with the Irish-americans, they'll blow the whole deal!

Well, at least it will starve the Legatus lackeys.

TwoShedsJackson · 14-08-2015 5:39pm

The delightful Islamic State have set up a formal system allowing them to rape 12 year olds in order to get closer to Allah

Nodin · 14-08-2015 9:00pm

Food, sex, lesbians and a man in a frock.....

"A Michigan Catholic priest has told guests at a conference this week that gay sex is a little bit like putting a piece of a bagel into your ear."

“What if I just rip open a bagel, I take it, and I cram it in my ear. What would you say?” asked Riccardo.
When eager students would respond “that doesn’t go there,” Riccardo would say “exactly,” adding that in doing so would “ruin your ear canal.”
Riccardo also told attendees he had a family member with a lesbian daughter who was welcomed and not excluded, but the young woman and her partner were not permitted to sleep together in the family home because it was “harmful”.
http://attitude.co.uk/catholic-priest-says-gay-sex-like-cramming-a-bagel-in-your-ear/

He actually mentions Lesbians though, which means he must be some modern progressive type.

Pherekydes · 14-08-2015 9:45pm

The key thing here is that bagels don't go in your ear. That's a new one on me. I've been eating them all wrong all these (y)ears. :pac:

Nodin · 14-08-2015 11:58pm

Pherekydes wrote: »

The key thing here is that bagels don't go in your ear. That's a new one on me. I've been eating them all wrong all these (y)ears. :pac:

Indeed.

As he compared gay sex to the bagel in the ear, one can only grieve for his failed sexual experimentation. Whether he was the "bagel" or the ear is none of our business, I suppose.

MrPudding · 15-08-2015 9:18am

Nodin wrote: »

Indeed.

As he compared gay sex to the bagel in the ear, one can only grieve for his failed sexual experimentation. Whether he was the "bagel" or the ear is none of our business, I suppose.

Aural sex anyone?

I'll get me coat.

MrP

Nodin · 17-08-2015 12:17pm

Make sure nothing is within kicking distance, and you've a bucket handy...it's an interview with Cardinal timothy dolan

"Mr Little started the interview by asking Cardinal Dolan about Ireland’s gay marriage referendum.
They then spoke about how, in 2007, Cardinal Dolan, when he was the Archbishop of Milwaukee, sought permission from the Vatican to transfer $57 million into a cemetery trust fund in Milwaukee – out of the reach of victims of abuse in the archdiocese.
In the letter, he wrote: ‘I foresee an improved protection of these funds from any legal claim and liability.’"
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/08/17/a-hard-knock-life/

robindch · 17-08-2015 12:30pm

Nodin wrote: »

[...] Archbishop of Milwaukee, sought permission from the Vatican to transfer $57 million into a cemetery trust fund in Milwaukee – out of the reach of victims of abuse in the archdiocese.

Good to see Dolan being questioned on it even if he couldn't answer.

Things were different out in California though, where Cardinal Mahony swiped $115 million from the cemetery fund in order to pay for sex abuse claims:

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/09/local/la-me-church-cemetery-fund-20130210

robindch · 18-08-2015 10:28am

Sculptures by a renowned Soviet artist on show in central Moscow were smashed after being denounced by Orthodox activists as "blasphemous."

http://www.rferl.mobi/a/27190081.html

Hotblack Desiato · 18-08-2015 11:31pm

robindch wrote: »

Good to see Dolan being questioned on it even if he couldn't answer.

Perhaps premature to hope that RTE have grown a pair? But it is refreshing to hear our national broadcaster ask a clergyman some hard questions, even if 'faith' and all the horrors which flow from it continue to be unquestionable and indeed promoted by RTE.

pauldla · 19-08-2015 5:52am

Christian fundamentalist in Taiwan pulls knife on prostitute, says he wants to 'cleanse her of sins'

The long-term unemployed, 42 year-old man later told police that he heard the Lord telling him during his prayer time three years ago to "cleanse the sins of a prostitute with blood". He went out and bought a fruit knife from a local supermarket for more than 200NTD, but waited all these years to act.

A fruit knife? What of the tools of yore, the Judas cradle, the rack, the Pear of Anguish? They were proper tools of cleansing. This fellow is but an amateur.

Xenophile · 19-08-2015 5:55am

Is it possible to be a member of the Humanist Society and at the same time hold the belief that God exists?

Peregrinus · 19-08-2015 6:52am

Xenophile wrote: »

Is it possible to be a member of the Humanist Society and at the same time hold the belief that God exists?

In a word, yes, I think so.

If you find your way to this page on the HAI website, you'll find a discussion of "the fundamentals of modern humanism". Not only is atheism not identified as one of the fundamentals, but we find the statement that "humanism imposes no creed on its adherents", which suggests that humanists are not committed to any particular position on religious questions, including an atheist position. We also see that "humanism can be a way of life for everyone everywhere" which, again, suggests that theists are not excluded.

There is in fact a long tradition of Christian humanism, although it's fair to say that the label "humanist" is mostly employed today by non-believers. And I dare say most or all of the HAI members are non-believers. But if you subscribe to their aims and values, I doubt that they will turn you away merely for being a theist.

kylith · 19-08-2015 8:31am

pauldla wrote: »

Christian fundamentalist in Taiwan pulls knife on prostitute, says he wants to 'cleanse her of sins'

A fruit knife? What of the tools of yore, the Judas cradle, the rack, the Pear of Anguish? They were proper tools of cleansing. This fellow is but an amateur.

Maybe he thought he'd need the fruit knife for the Pear of Anguish. It sounds like the kind of pear that'd need specialist equipment.

Xenophile · 19-08-2015 6:58pm

Peregrinus wrote: »

In a word, yes, I think so.

If you find your way to this page on the HAI website, you'll find a discussion of "the fundamentals of modern humanism". Not only is atheism not identified as one of the fundamentals, but we find the statement that "humanism imposes no creed on its adherents", which suggests that humanists are not committed to any particular position on religious questions, including an atheist position. We also see that "humanism can be a way of life for everyone everywhere" which, again, suggests that theists are not excluded.

There is in fact a long tradition of Christian humanism, although it's fair to say that the label "humanist" is mostly employed today by non-believers. And I dare say most or all of the HAI members are non-believers. But if you subscribe to their aims and values, I doubt that they will turn you away merely for being a theist.

Thank you for your detailed reply . I will read the link you sent me!

Nodin · 20-08-2015 12:05pm

Marriage - a sacred rite, binding man and woman.......

"THE credit card of one a leading figure from the Family Research Council in the US paid for an Ashley Madison account, it has been revealed.

Josh Duggar was named an executive director of the council, which promotes traditional marriage, in 2013.

Millions of users’ details from the site, which was created for those wishing to cheat on their partner, have been leaked online.

The leaked data shows that Duggar’s credit card paid for an account on the site from February of 2013 until May of this year.

A total of $986.76 (€885) was billed to the card by the site.

The conservative lobbying group’s mission statement says it seeks to “champion marriage and family as the foundation of civilization, the seedbed of virtue, and the wellspring of society.”

In May of this year Duggar was forced to resign from his position after accusations surfaced that he had molested five young girls – however the leak shows he paid for the account while serving as executive director"
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/americas/leading-antigay-marriage-campaigners-credit-card-used-to-pay-for-ashley-madison-account-31465244.html

silverharp · 20-08-2015 1:28pm

Irish American teacher becomes a bride of Christ

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irish-American-teacher-becomes-a-bride-of-Christ-PHOTOS.html

Indiana high school teacher Jessica Hayes has earned herself quite a tough task in impressing the in-laws by marrying none other that the Son of God, Jesus Christ.

Hayes, 38, is now officially a consecrated virgin, having married Christ in an unusual ceremony that involved her lying prostrate on the altar at the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception in Fort Wayne, IN.

The theology teacher joins around 3,500 consecrated virgins worldwide, 230 of whom are in the US, who have pledged to never have sex or to marry. Quite a commitment to make to a man who has over 3,500 other wives.

Joined mostly by strangers intrigued by the elaborate ceremony to marry the man up above, the theology teacher sealed her commitment after years of prayer and soul-searching.

“I had been praying about it for years, trying to seek God’s will for my life and not really finding it in any of the paths that I sought before," Hayes told WANE.

silverharp · 20-08-2015 2:01pm

Interesting observations from an ex christian

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CKxfPwLMJk

robindch · 20-08-2015 2:37pm

Anonymous goes after the big one.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/320639

PopePalpatine · 20-08-2015 4:44pm

I can't wait to see them hack the Vatican.

Hotblack Desiato · 20-08-2015 9:02pm

robindch wrote: »

Anonymous goes after the big one.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/320639

Article is 3.5 years old...

Anyway - you'd think they'd be too embarrassed to drag this back up -

Virgin Mary apparitions remembered 30 years on

Apparitions of the Virgin Mary at the grotto in Mount Melleray, Co Waterford, 30 years ago in August 1985 are being marked by evening prayers and processions there all this week and continuing until Monday.

On July 22nd, 1985, it was also claimed a statue of Mary at Ballinspittle, Co Cork, had moved at the grotto.

This sparked huge attendances there and a spate of similar claims of moving statues at about 30 locations across the country. It is estimated that subsequent to July 1985 about 100,000 people visited Ballinspittle in the hope of seeing the statue move.

The messages included a warning that "God was angry with the world and how we must change. If we don't change, then, she said, 'The Devil would take over God's church in 10 years' ."

Almost right I suppose, the abuse deniers and enablers were in charge long before this 'prediction'.

...

Another hazard of belief - getting dug up twice so people can pray in closer proximity to your corpse.

Call for exhumation of 'Little Nellie' to allow faithful to pray

The Bishop of Cork hopes the body of a five-year-old girl who died more than 100 years ago can be exhumed to allow people to pray at her graveside.

Bishop John Buckley has called for the remains of "Little Nellie" (Ellen Organ) to be moved from the grounds of a convent bought by developers in 2005.

The now-derelict Good Shepherd Convent at Sunday’s Well became the property of Ulster Bank and KPMG in 2010. Gaining graveside access required permission from the owners, Dr Buckley said. "They would be reluctant from a security point of view," he said.

Shouldn't they really have sorted that out before cashing in on the boom-time land prices?

robindch · 21-08-2015 11:08am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

robindch wrote: »

Anonymous goes after the big one.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/320639

Article is 3.5 years old...

Oops

Ok, what about this one - Korea goes after the big one

http://www.atheistrepublic.com/news/korea-assembly-debate-religious-taxes

Atheist Republic wrote:

The Korean government reiterated its plan to impose income tax on religious groups earlier this month. However, the ruling Saenuri Party expressed concerns about introducing religious tax, citing possible protests as a reason. The plan to impose religious tax was included in the draft version of a tax code revision, which was disclosed by the Ministry of Strategy and Finance after it met with Saenuri Party to discuss policy coordination.

“Though the government wants to tax religious groups, the party believes it should consider this move very carefully,” Kim Jung-hoon, the party's chief policymaker, told reporters after the meeting. “We will look into the plan closely ahead of a plenary session at the National Assembly.”

At first, the ministry had planned to charge a four percent tax rate on the total income of religious leaders minus their expenses. Later, the ministry went on to add measures that would ensure that high earning religious leaders pay higher taxes than low earning religious leaders. If the revision receives approval, all churches and temples would be required to submit details about their incomes each year.

While there has been a lot of debate surrounding the taxing of clergymen and monks over the past few decades, little progress has been made with the issue because of its sensitivity. As a matter of fact, the country’s plans for religious tax have been stalled for as long as 47 years. The first director of the National Tax Service, Lee Nak Sun, had planned on taxing religious organizations in 1968 but he did not succeed at the time. In 2014, the finance ministry devised a similar plan once more but it had to back down eventually because of the opposition it faced from various religious organizations. Recently, the government thought of the idea yet again and this time, it hopes to finally implement religious taxes.

A survey last year revealed that 75.3 percent of 1,000 respondents agreed with the idea of religious taxation. While it remains unclear whether religious taxes will eventually be implemented, vice finance minister Joo Hyung Hwan has promised to push for the measure.

“We can't postpone it anymore, considering public opinion,” he said. “The Assembly will make an all-out effort to pass the revision by persuading both the government and the religious institutions.”

The Hazards of Belief

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