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The Hazards of Belief

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  • Options
    #6362
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    I'm a big fan of vaccination, and have no time for anti-vaxxers, but does the report not suggest that the bishops may have a point? There is, at least allegedly, some indication that Kenyans are being subjected to dud or corrupted drugs, and there is a bit of a history of African communities being used as a dumping ground for otherwise-unmarketable drugs, or even as involuntary subjects for clinical testing.

    The bishops aren't saying that people shouldn't be vaccinated. They're saying that they should be able to trust the vaccines that they are being given.
    Hmmm... my BS alarm was triggered on reading (in the religion-news article that robindch linked to) that the dud vaccine/anti-malarial drug was in fact quinine and/or common paracetamol, neither of which is a new drug, or would cause paralysis.
    The drug, believed to be quinine for advanced cases, was found to contain the pain drug paracetamol, according to the bishops.
    Googling further there is not much to be found, except for this local Kenyan story which indicates that some gob$hite was sticking a big needle into the childrens sciatic nerve....enough said. Staff have been suspended.

    Bishops should not pontificate or get involved in matters that they don't understand.


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    #6363
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Found this [published by The Catholic Communications Institute of Ireland, 1981] in a charity shop… A few choice excerpts below…

    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/07/31/that-talk-1981/

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    #6364
    pauldla
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    ^^^

    I remember being given that back when I were a lad! Ah, the happy memories....


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    #6365
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,885 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    "I have heard the hunger in them"? That is creepy...


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    #6366
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Thargor wrote: »
    "I have heard the hunger in them"? That is creepy...

    "Fear The Walking Dead" premiers August 23rd.....


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    #6367
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    All that bizarre detail in the book about mucous watching... :pac:
    In case anybody is wondering, that relates to The Billings Method of contraception, which you don't hear much about any more. Not since the pharmacies and supermarkets decided to ignore the RCC and started selling durex.
    With typical use, 22 out of every 100 women who use the Billings method will become pregnant in one year.

    I suppose their only regret was that the failure rate wasn't even higher.


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    #6368
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    "....need to relate to another person of the same sex in a genital way" is one of the more bizarre phrases I've encountered.


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    #6369
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    pauldla wrote: »
    ^^^

    I remember being given that back when I were a lad! Ah, the happy memories....

    Christ. There is a memory... I am in my bedroom reading a Stephen King book and my door opens. There stands my mother, face bright red. "Read this" she says as she throws that book onto my bed and hastily closes the door. I think it was about three days before she could look at me again

    MrP


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    #6370
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,121 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Christ. There is a memory... I am in my bedroom reading a Stephen King book and my door opens. There stands my mother, face bright red. "Read this" she says as she throws that book onto my bed and hastily closes the door. I think it was about three days before she could look at me again

    MrP

    Oh boy. THAT brings back memories. In fairness given the title of the booklet it may well have said somewhere something along the lines of "this book is intended to encourage discussion, not just be left lying around in the house or lobbed at your adolescent while looking extremely embarrassed". If anyone ever ever had a mature discussion prompted by this book, please post :rolleyes:

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #6371
    pauldla
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Christ. There is a memory... I am in my bedroom reading a Stephen King book and my door opens. There stands my mother, face bright red. "Read this" she says as she throws that book onto my bed and hastily closes the door. I think it was about three days before she could look at me again

    MrP

    Ha! Remarkably similar to my own experience, though I don't think I was reading Stephen King at the time (it was probably John Steinbeck, who for some reason I couldn't get enough of when I was a teenager). I think the book puzzled me more than anything else, as the diagrams weren't terribly clear. Oh the fun we had in the Eighties.


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    #6372
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    http://www.rawstory.com/2015/08/indiana-public-school-punishes-7-year-old-with-banishment-for-not-believing-in-god-lawsuit/
    A lawsuit recently filed against a teacher at Forest Park Elementary School in Indiana alleged that a 7-year-old student was “banished” from sitting with other students at lunch after he revealed that he did not believe in God.

    According to the lawsuit obtained by The Washington Post, second grade teacher Michelle Myer interrogated the student, who was identified with the initials A.B., about his religious beliefs after he told his classmates on the playground that he did not go to church because he did not believe in God.

    As a result, the child was ordered to sit by himself during lunch for a three-day period.

    “The defendant’s actions caused great distress to A.B. and resulted in the child being ostracized by his peers past the three-day ‘banishment.'”

    “Ms. Meyer asked A.B. if he had told the girl that he did not believe in God and A.B. said he had and asked what he had done wrong,” the lawsuit explained. “Ms. Meyer asked A.B. if he went to church, whether his family went to church, and whether his mother knew how he felt about God… She also asked A.B. if he believed that maybe God exists.”

    Several days later, Meyer sent A.B. to talk to another adult at the school, who “reinforced his feeling that he had done something very wrong,” the lawsuit said.

    “On the day of the incident and for an additional two days thereafter, Ms. Meyer required that A.B. sit by himself during lunch and told him he should not talk to the other students and stated that this was because he had offended them. This served to reinforce A.B.’s feeling that he had committed some transgression that justified his exclusion.”

    “A.B. came home from school on multiple occasions crying saying that he knows that everyone at school – teachers and students – hate him,” the suit continued. “Even now A.B. remains anxious and fearful about school, which is completely contrary to how he felt before this incident.”

    The lawsuit is seeking damages and attorneys’ fees.

    In a statement, the school district suggested that the teacher had been wrong to single out the child.

    “It is clear that it is not the province of a public school to advance or inhibit religious beliefs or practices. Under the First and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution, this remains the inviolate province of the individual and the church of his/her choice,” the district declared. “The rights of any minority, no matter how small, must be protected.”

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #6373
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    In a statement, the school district suggested that the teacher had been wrong to single out the child.

    No sht, Sherlock


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    #6374
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,157 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    kylith wrote: »
    No sht, Sherlock
    Well, it's relevant because it underlines the fact that the school district is not being sued; just the individual teacher. I'm guessing that when the parents complained about this they got a very satisfactory response from the school district (which is good, of course) but not from the teacher. Hence the lawsuit.


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    #6375
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,545 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    recedite wrote: »
    All that bizarre detail in the book about mucous watching... :pac:
    In case anybody is wondering, that relates to The Billings Method of contraception, which you don't hear much about any more. Not since the pharmacies and supermarkets decided to ignore the RCC and started selling durex.
    i'm fairly certain that my brother and SIL had a lecture on mucus when they went for a pre-marriage course.
    a talk on birth control given by a mother of eight was an irony not lost on the audience.


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    #6376
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i'm fairly certain that my brother and SIL had a lecture on mucus when they went for a pre-marriage course.
    a talk on birth control given by a mother of eight was an irony not lost on the audience.

    As ironic as a talk about birth control, or marriage guidance, from someone not supposed to have sex or be in a relationship? Catholicism, at least it is good for the occasional ironic laugh.

    MrP


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    #6377
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    MrPudding wrote: »
    As ironic as a talk about birth control, or marriage guidance, from someone not supposed to have sex or be in a relationship? Catholicism, at least it is good for the occasional ironic laugh.

    MrP

    I can trace the beginning of my atheism to a priest giving a homily about how to raise children and thinking that if he was lecturing people on this when he knew nothing about it, what else was he claiming authority on that he knew nothing about.


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    #6378
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    kylith wrote: »
    [...] he was lecturing people on this when he knew nothing about it, what else was he claiming authority on that he knew nothing about.
    In all fairness, claiming authority where no honest person should and declaiming in a complete absence of any actual knowledge or experience is all in a day's work for a religious preacher.


  • Options
    #6379
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    robindch wrote: »
    In all fairness, claiming authority where no honest person should and declaiming in a complete absence of any actual knowledge or experience is all in a day's work for a religious preacher.
    Of course, but it was the first time I realised it.


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    #6380
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    The laws need to be changed if this nonsense can be brought to court.


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0806/719561-pastor-james-mcconnell/
    A crowd of about 1,000 hymn-singing and placard-waving supporters of the preacher were inside and around Belfast Magistrates Court as he appeared before it, accused of causing a grossly offensive message to be sent.

    The charge related to a sermon the 78-year-old gave at the Whitewell Metropolitan Tabernacle in north Belfast last year where he called Islam satanic and heathen, and said it had been spawned in hell.

    Remarks from his sermon were streamed online.

    The speech caused a public outcry but in court defence solicitor Joe Rice told District Judge Amanda Henderson his client was strenuously contesting the case.

    He said: "We are pleading not guilty. Very candidly not guilty."

    Mr Rice added: "This is one of the most bizarre and peculiar cases I have ever seen before the court."

    The court also heard how Pastor McConnell had rejected a lesser punishment and was taking a "principled stance" on the issue of freedom of expression.

    He "strenuously denied" any moral or legal culpability, it was claimed.

    Mr Rice said: "The Pastor has waited a long time for this to come to court. He did not incite hatred or encourage violence against Muslims.

    "He expressed views about another religion, not in a personalised manner but in a generalised way.

    "He has every right to criticise Islam, as Islamic clerics have the right to entice him.

    "This is a principled stance that the pastor has taken."

    The defence team also criticised prosecutors for an apparent lack of action on disclosure.

    "This is not the PPS's finest hour, this case," Mr Rice said.

    The case has been adjourned until 3 September.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #6381
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,121 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Interesting article in the Irish Times

    I abandoned my vocation and moved to Australia, where my faith evaporated
    At the end of summer in 1980 I headed off to Cork to begin my noviciate.
    ...
    By year’s end I was floundering. My appetite was gone and I was waking up in the early hours with my mind in overdrive. One lad was languishing in the local psychiatric hospital. Another abruptly left after he swallowed a handful of pills, and several simply never returned after the Christmas break.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #6382
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,849 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Your link's broken, just take out everything before "www.irishtimes.com".


  • Options
    #6383
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,121 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    Your link's broken, just take out everything before "www.irishtimes.com".

    There was nothing before the www, perhaps a touch site oddity? When I edited it to put http:// in then it worked fine.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #6384
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,849 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Yeah, that probably explains it. The touch site has been acting screwy for me for the past month or so.


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    #6385
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,121 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    Yeah, that probably explains it. The touch site has been acting screwy for me for the past month or so.

    I only use it when on holidays, it's barely usable really

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #6386
    Eeden
    Registered Users Posts: 17,912 ✭✭✭✭Eeden


    From thejournal.ie:

    Man lets daughter drown rather than have her "dishonoured" by being touched by strange men (lifeguards)

    This seems almost too off-the-wall to be true.


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    #6387
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    I dunno. I've seen some strange things on the beach in Dubai, including niqab swimsuits.


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    #6388
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Saudi Arabia establishes a new law that declares that atheism is a form of terrorism.

    http://iheu.org/saudi-arabias-new-law-defines-atheism-as-terrorism-bans-all-criticism-of-government/

    It's a bit rich that the foremost purveyors of islamic terrorism elsewhere should consider atheism as a form of terrorism.


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    #6389
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I dunno. I've seen some strange things on the beach in Dubai, including niqab swimsuits.
    ...which go by the splendid name of "burqini" - they may be figure hugging in places but I doubt they do much for through-the-water performance.

    358314.jpg


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    #6390
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    I'm a big fan of vaccination, and have no time for anti-vaxxers, but does the report not suggest that the bishops may have a point? There is, at least allegedly, some indication that Kenyans are being subjected to dud or corrupted drugs, and there is a bit of a history of African communities being used as a dumping ground for otherwise-unmarketable drugs, or even as involuntary subjects for clinical testing.

    The bishops aren't saying that people shouldn't be vaccinated. They're saying that they should be able to trust the vaccines that they are being given.
    Wahome Ngare, a guy who claims to be a Kenyan gynaecologist and obstetrician and who claims to speak on behalf the Kenya Catholic Doctors Association, has said that the WHO and UN are introducing the vaccine to implement population control:

    http://www.matercare.org/news-publications/medical-news/catholic-doctors-speak-tetanus-vaccination-campaign-is-all-about-population-control/
    Dr Ngare wrote:
    [...] WHO conducted massive vaccinations campaigns using the tetanus vaccine laced with HCG in Mexico in 1993 and Nicaragua and Philippines in 1994 ostensibly to eradicate neonatal tetanus. The campaign targeted women aged 14 – 49 years and each received a total of 5 injections.

    What is downright immoral and evil is that the tetanus laced with HCG was given as a fertility regulating vaccine without disclosing its ‘contraceptive effect’ to the girls and the mothers. As far as they were concerned, they had gone for an innocent injection to prevent neonatal tetanus!

    Considering the similarity of the WHO tetanus vaccination exercise in South American with the Kenyan camping and with the background knowledge of WHO’s underhand population control initiatives, the Kenya Catholic Doctors Association brought the matter to the attention of the Bishops and together sort audience with the Ministry of Health with only one request; that the tetanus vaccine being used in this campaign be tested to ensure it was not laced with HCG before the 2nd round of immunizations in March. The Ministry of Health declined to have the vaccine tested.[...]


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    #6391
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    silverharp wrote: »
    The laws need to be changed if this nonsense can be brought to court.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0806/719561-pastor-james-mcconnell/
    The guy looks very fit for 78 year old, he looks like he comes from the same firebrand stock as the Rev Ian Paisley.
    If other religious preachers were more honest, we would see a lot more of this kind of thing. Because generally speaking, different religions are inherently blasphemous in relation to each other.
    When they co-operate to get a blasphemy law through, or when they all attend some state memorial service together, they must compartmentalise this antipathy to each other. To get respect from society, they must officially pretend that they are all respectful of each other.

    What exact offence is he being charged with anyway? I would presume blasphemy, which was abolished in England and Wales, but not in Norn Iron.
    But the RTE articles says he is "accused of causing a grossly offensive message to be sent." AFAIK that is the fairly new facebook/twitter offence designed to prevent online bullying, so would not be relevant to what a preacher says in church.

    It could be that the crown prosecution service have purposely charged him under the wrong offence, knowing that the charges will not stick. That way everybody can save face, and go back to their own hypocritical existence.


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