The Hazards of Belief

Brian Shanahan

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33486177

At least praising removing gluten from your diet is much better than praising god when you win. For one thing gluten intolerance is a real thing and for another dealing with it does help you.

BlaasForRafa

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

At least praising removing gluten from your diet is much better than praising god when you win. For one thing gluten intolerance is a real thing and for another dealing with it does help you.

Celiac disease is a real thing but gluten sensitivity hasn't been conclusively proven. I'm not saying it couldn't be an issue with Djokovic but it could just be a case of the placebo effect and confirmation bias ie he believes that giving up gluten was the key to him winning therefore it was the key...and not the hours and hours of practice, the top class tennis coaches and the outrageous natural talent that he has:pac:

Nodin

robindch wrote: »

The 16-year old daughter of two anti-vax parents saves up her baby-sitting money to get vaccinated.

Mom goes mad. Reddit has a good laugh.

http://www.mommyish.com/2015/07/13/teenager-gets-self-vaccinated-babysitting-money-anti-vax-parents/

I forgot to remark earlier that they seem to have raised an intelligent and mature daughter, despite perhaps their best efforts otherwise.

obplayer

First cousin marriages in Pakistani communities leading to 'appalling' disabilities among children

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/11723308/First-cousin-marriages-in-Pakistani-communities-leading-to-appalling-disabilities-among-children.html

Couples who are getting married should be forced to have a DNA test first to ensure they are not cousins amid growing concern about incest within Pakistani communities, Britain's first Asian peer has claimed.
Baroness Flather, a former Tory who now sits as a cross-bencher, said in the House of Lords that it is "absolutely appalling" that first cousin marriages in Pakistani communities are leading to "so much disability among children".

She said: "There are a lot of first-cousin marriages in certain communities, particularly among Pakistanis who come from the Pakistani Kashmir area. We know so much about DNA now, but there is so much disability among the children, which is absolutely appalling.

"You go to any such family and there will be four or five children, at least one or two of whom will have some disability. That is absolutely unacceptable, and if we cannot do anything about it, is it fair to the children?"

Baroness Flather, a former barrister who was born in the Pakistani city of Lahore when it was part of India, said: "Never mind the parents — it is not fair to the children that they should be allowed to become disabled because of a social practice. It is a social practice which does not belong in today’s age, when we know so much about DNA. There should at least be some rule which says that you must have a DNA examination before your marriage can be registered."

First-cousin marriages, which are are legal in the UK, are practised within Britain’s Pakistani community, as well as among some Arab and African families. Medical data previously suggested that while British Pakistanis were responsible for 3 per cent of all births, they accounted for 30 per cent of British children born with a genetic illness.
The noble Baroness Flather also raised concerns about Sharia law, under which women struggle to get a divorce.
She said: "I know I am probably talking about Muslims, but we now have this business of sharia marriages. It is appalling that the man can get a divorce by just asking for it, while a woman may have to wait years, and may still not get it. She can get a British divorce, but not a sharia divorce.
Noble Lords may ask, “Why does that matter?”, and I asked that of those women. They replied, “It means that we can’t go to Pakistan”.
"If they go there, the husband can come and take the children away, no matter what age they are. In any case, the husband can take the children from a sharia marriage when they are seven. All marriages should be automatically registered in this country. It is not fair to the women that some British women — they are British women when they come here — are treated in a different and unacceptable way from others."

Hotblack Desiato

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Celiac disease is a real thing but gluten sensitivity hasn't been conclusively proven

and holding a slice of bread to his belly is not a credible diagnostic test for anything except extreme gullibility

Nodin

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

and holding a slice of bread to his belly is not a credible diagnostic test for anything except extreme gullibility

I'm reminded of that Penn and Teller show where they convinced people to let snails crawl on their face.

BlaasForRafa

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

and holding a slice of bread to his belly is not a credible diagnostic test for anything except extreme gullibility

Did I say it was?

robindch

An Italian soccer player learns of Germany's Kirkensteuer (Church Tax) the hard way:

http://europe.newsweek.com/italian-footballer-who-owes-german-catholic-church-1-7m-unpaid-tax-330413

Mr Toni earned an estimated €43 million euro while playing for a team in Munich and has been told that he needs to pay €1.7 million to the local catholic church.

BlaasForRafa

The anti-vaxxers are another kind of irrational belief system imo.

http://www.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/health-features/cervical-cancer-vaccine-has-made-my-daughter-ill-31378364.html

Kelly suffered from massive headaches, chronic fatigue and pain throughout her body.

And of course teenagers have never been known to suffer from symptoms like these for other issues...especially at a time when their bodies are undergoing massive changes...

And of course anything vaccine related brings out the cranks and conspiracy-theorists http://www.townsendletter.com/FebMarch2014/gardasil0214.html

Delirium

A Woman in India Has Been Beheaded by Mob Who Accused Her of Being a Witch

More than 100 women have been killed in witch hunts in the state of Assam in the past six years

A 63-year-old woman in India was beheaded Monday after a mob of more than 200 people accused her of witchcraft.

The incident took place at a village in the eastern state of Assam, Indian broadcaster NDTV reported. Seven people have been arrested for the lynching, which occurred after the woman was dragged out of her house and attacked.

According to Samad Hussain, the village’s additional superintendent of police, a younger woman named Anima Ronghanti who “claims to be a goddess” asked people to gather at a local temple. She then told the crowd that 63-year-old Poni Orang, a mother of five and member of the Adivasi tribe, was a witch who would bring bad luck to the village.

“The mob rushed into Orang’s house and dragged her out, took her to a nearby stream, almost stripped her naked and beheaded her in broad daylight,” Hussain said.

Ronghanti, her husband and her sister have been taken into police custody along with four others.

Witch hunts in various parts of India are a common occurrence, with more than 100 women killed in witch hunts in Assam in the past six years. The state is planning to introduce legislation to make it illegal to brand a woman as a witch.

Thargor

robindch wrote: »

An Italian soccer player learns of Germany's Kirkensteuer (Church Tax) the hard way:

http://europe.newsweek.com/italian-footballer-who-owes-german-catholic-church-1-7m-unpaid-tax-330413

Mr Toni earned an estimated €43 million euro while playing for a team in Munich and has been told that he needs to pay €1.7 million to the local catholic church.

5.6 Billion extracted from Germany alone every year just by the Vatican! that is seriously parasitic behaviour.

Peregrinus

Thargor wrote: »

5.6 Billion extracted from Germany alone every year just by the Vatican! that is seriously parasitic behaviour.

Only if you count money spent building and running schools, hospitals, residential and convalescent homes, child care centres, etc in Germany as "money extracted from Germany by the Vatican".

galljga1

SW wrote: »

A Woman in India Has Been Beheaded by Mob Who Accused Her of Being a Witch

So we have a 'goddess' calling for the killing of a 'witch'. The hazards of belief indeed.

robindch

Peregrinus wrote: »

Only if you count money spent building and running schools, hospitals, residential and convalescent homes, child care centres, etc in Germany as "money extracted from Germany by the Vatican".

So far as I'm aware, the money is given to local catholic religious leaders to do with as they wish. Accountability, governance and transparency are not yet major concerns, even after the activities of Bishop Franz-Peter Tebartz-van Elst who chose to blow an unknown sum, but known to be in excess of €31 million euro and believed to be around €40m, on his palace - including €170,000 on a stairs, €213,000 on a fishtank and €1.73million on bronze window frames.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz-Peter_Tebartz-van_Elst

lazygal

Peregrinus wrote: »

Only if you count money spent building and running schools, hospitals, residential and convalescent homes, child care centres, etc in Germany as "money extracted from Germany by the Vatican".

Can help the counting by posting a link providing information on where this money was spent in Germany on "building and running schools, hospitals, residential and convalescent homes, child care centres, etc"?

robindch

Apropos of Ruari Quinn's comments on the tendency for nuns to be a trifle acquisitive when it comes to property, here's a story from Los Angeles where a small group of elderly nuns are putting up a no-holds-barred fight against their local bishop. Over property.

With added Katy Perry.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/20/us/nuns-intensify-fight-over-sale-of-convent-to-katy-perry.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=2&referrer
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/03/us/katy-perry-allies-with-los-angeles-archdiocese-over-property-sale.html?action=click&contentCollection=U.S.&module=RelatedCoverage&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article

Peregrinus

robindch wrote: »

So far as I'm aware, the money is given to local catholic religious leaders to do with as they wish.

Which contradicts Thargor’s claim that it’s “extracted by the Vatican”. It stays in Germany, except to the extent that the German dioceses wish to pay it to the Vatican, or to missionary or development work outside Germany.

robindch wrote: »

Accountability, governance and transparency are not yet major concerns, even after the activities of Bishop Franz-Peter Tebartz-van Elst who chose to blow an unknown sum, but known to be in excess of €31 million euro and believed to be around €40m, on his palace - including €170,000 on a stairs, €213,000 on a fishtank and €1.73million on bronze window frames.

Actually, accountability and transparency are better than in Ireland , which (a) is not unconnected with the fact that the churches are in receipt of taxpayer funds, and (b) is how we come to know about the Bishop of Bling’s tastes in interior decoration. All German dioceses (and other church agencies in receipt of disbursements of church tax) are legally obliged to publish externally-audited accounts.

lazygal wrote: »

Can help the counting by posting a link providing information on where this money was spent in Germany on "building and running schools, hospitals, residential and convalescent homes, child care centres, etc"?

Well, no offence, but wouldn’t that be how you would expect churches to spend their funds? They are heavily involved in all these activities, after all; how did you think they financed them? It’s striking that you look for citations that churches in Germany spend the church tax they receive on running schools, hospitals, etc, but not look for any citation for Thargor’s claim that the money is simply “extracted by the Vatican”, which at first glance looks like the more startling claim.

Still, cites: Here’s a Wall Street Journal report to the effect that German churches “use the revenues to finance churches and pay clergy salaries. The taxes also help support affiliated hospitals and social services.”

No mention of any payments to the Vatican, though in fact there are some. But not a lot, in the scheme of things. The church tax provides about 70& of the annual revenues of the German catholic church. The diocese of Köln alone is, notoriously, much wealthier than the Vatican. This widely-reported fact is hard to reconcile with Thargor’s view that the church tax receipts are simply "extracted by the Vatican".

The bottom line here is that the German church’s transfers to the Vatican are significant - to the Vatican. Along with transfers from the US church, they make up more than half of the Vatican’s annual income. But in terms of the German church they are not very significant at all, because the German church is vastly wealthier than the Vatican.

And it’s precisely because of the social, etc services funded by the church tax that, although the tax is much criticised, proposals to abolish it are not always popular. The fact is that the church tax in Germany supports services which, in other countries, would be paid for out of general taxation. And if the church tax is abolished, assuming people don’t want service cuts other taxes will have to rise - not by the full amount of the church tax, but by the part of it which is spent on social and educational services.

Well and good, you might say; there would still be a net reduction in taxation, and the elimination of an anomalous tax. But the point is that there would also be a shift in the burden of taxation, away from those who currently pay the church tax and onto those who currently don’t - non-church members, students (who have an exemption) and church members who have no taxable income. Thus a fair chunk of those who might be expected to dislike the church tax as a matter of principle will lose out financially if it is abolished. And those who have renounced church membership in order to avoid the church tax would find the effect of this partly reversed. Hence plenty of grumbling but not so much in the way of coherent moves to reform the system

obplayer

Peregrinus wrote: »

Which contradicts Thargor’s claim that it’s “extracted by the Vatican”. It stays in Germany, except to the extent that the German dioceses wish to pay it to the Vatican, or to missionary or development work outside Germany.


Actually, accountability and transparency are better than in Ireland , which (a) is not unconnected with the fact that the churches are in receipt of taxpayer funds, and (b) is how we come to know about the Bishop of Bling’s tastes in interior decoration. All German dioceses (and other church agencies in receipt of disbursements of church tax) are legally obliged to publish externally-audited accounts.


Well, no offence, but wouldn’t that be how you would expect churches to spend their funds? They are heavily involved in all these activities, after all; how did you think they financed them? It’s striking that you look for citations that churches in Germany spend the church tax they receive on running schools, hospitals, etc, but not look for any citation for Thargor’s claim that the money is simply “extracted by the Vatican”, which at first glance looks like the more startling claim.

Still, cites: Here’s a Wall Street Journal report to the effect that German churches “use the revenues to finance churches and pay clergy salaries. The taxes also help support affiliated hospitals and social services.”

No mention of any payments to the Vatican, though in fact there are some. But not a lot, in the scheme of things. The church tax provides about 70& of the annual revenues of the German catholic church. The diocese of Köln alone is, notoriously, much wealthier than the Vatican. This widely-reported fact is hard to reconcile with Thargor’s view that the church tax receipts are simply "extracted by the Vatican".

The bottom line here is that the German church’s transfers to the Vatican are significant - to the Vatican. Along with transfers from the US church, they make up more than half of the Vatican’s annual income. But in terms of the German church they are not very significant at all, because the German church is vastly wealthier than the Vatican.

And it’s precisely because of the social, etc services funded by the church tax that, although the tax is much criticised, proposals to abolish it are not always popular. The fact is that the church tax in Germany supports services which, in other countries, would be paid for out of general taxation. And if the church tax is abolished, assuming people don’t want service cuts other taxes will have to rise - not by the full amount of the church tax, but by the part of it which is spent on social and educational services.

Well and good, you might say; there would still be a net reduction in taxation, and the elimination of an anomalous tax. But the point is that there would also be a shift in the burden of taxation, away from those who currently pay the church tax and onto those who currently don’t - non-church members, students (who have an exemption) and church members who have no taxable income. Thus a fair chunk of those who might be expected to dislike the church tax as a matter of principle will lose out financially if it is abolished. And those who have renounced church membership in order to avoid the church tax would find the effect of this partly reversed. Hence plenty of grumbling but not so much in the way of coherent moves to reform the system

It might be what you would expect but it is clearly not what happens.

What happens is described here....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96318902&postcount=6315

obplayer

Oregon bakers forced to pay $135,000 after sharing lesbian couple’s home address.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/oregon-bakers-werent-fined-over-cake-they-were-punished-for-sharing-lesbian-couples-home-address/

The first reports suggested that the bakery couple were fined purely because of their anti gay marriage beliefs. It seems it was not that simple.

The anti-LGBT owners of an Oregon bakery were not fined simply for refusing to sell a wedding cake to a same-sex couple – they were ordered to pay $135,000 in damages for causing their would-be customers emotional distress.
The case has attracted widespread media attention since the couple first filed their complaint in January 2013, and that is largely through the efforts of Aaron and Melissa Klein, the owners of Sweet Cakes by Melissa.
After the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries handed down the order last week, Aaron Klein claimed the ruling was an example of the “persecution of Christians” in the U.S.
However, the ruling shows the bakery owners had made Laurel and Rachel Bowman-Cryer the victims of persecution and makes clear the payment was compensation for damages and not a fine or civil penalty, reported the blog Love, Joy and Feminism.
The agency found that the Kleins “brought the case to the media’s attention and kept it there by repeatedly appearing in public to make statements deriding” the couple who filed the complaint.

“It was foreseeable that this attention would negatively impact (the Bowman-Cryers), making (the Kleins) liable for any resultant emotional suffering experienced by (them),” the agency found.
Commissioner Brad Avakian eventually rejected the agency’s theory of liability related to the media attention in his final ruling, but he upheld its recommendation on damages and ordered the Kleins to pay “$60,000 in damages to Laurel Bowman-Cryer and $75,000 in damages to Rachel Bowman-Cryer for emotional suffering” that resulted from the unlawful denial of service.
The blog explains that the bakery owners shared the couple’s personal contact information – which led to death threats that nearly caused them to lose custody of their foster children.
Laurel Bowman-Cryer filed the complaint in January 2013, after she and her mother had met with Aaron Klein – who refused them service and quoted an anti-LGBT verse from Leviticus.
She filed her complaint by smartphone, which prevented her from seeing a disclaimer notifying her that her full name and address would be sent to the bakery owners – and Aaron Klein shared that information, along with the complaint, on his personal Facebook page.
Conservative media and anti-LGBT organizations such as the Family Research Council promoted the Kleins as victims of religious discrimination.
Rachel Bowman-Cryer said she and her wife received a steady stream of threats that continued as the Kleins promoted their side of the case in national media appearances.
She testified that state adoption officials told them they were responsible for keeping their two foster daughters safe from those threats, and they feared they could lose custody of the girls — whom they have since adopted.
In its final order, issued last week, the labor bureau found the Kleins had violated the state’s anti-discrimination laws – but the damages awarded were not a “gay fascism tax,” as some commenters argued.
They violated state law, the commissioner found, and that unlawful action caused real harm to their victims.
“Within Oregon’s public accommodations law is the basic principle of human decency that every person, regardless of their sexual orientation, has the freedom to fully participate in society,” the commissioner ruled. “The ability to enter public places, to shop, to dine, to move about unfettered by bigotry.”

Good Christians. Again.

Nodin

robindch wrote: »

Apropos of Ruari Quinn's comments on the tendency for nuns to be a trifle acquisitive when it comes to property, here's a story from Los Angeles where a small group of elderly nuns are putting up a no-holds-barred fight against their local bishop. Over property.

With added Katy Perry.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/20/us/nuns-intensify-fight-over-sale-of-convent-to-katy-perry.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=2&referrer
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/03/us/katy-perry-allies-with-los-angeles-archdiocese-over-property-sale.html?action=click&contentCollection=U.S.&module=RelatedCoverage&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article

....if you didn't know who she was, it'd make her sound exciting.

lazygal

Peregrinus wrote: »

Still, cites: Here’s a Wall Street Journal report to the effect that German churches “use the revenues to finance churches and pay clergy salaries. The taxes also help support affiliated hospitals and social services.”

No mention of any payments to the Vatican, though in fact there are some. But not a lot, in the scheme of things. The church tax provides about 70& of the annual revenues of the German catholic church. The diocese of Köln alone is, notoriously, much wealthier than the Vatican. This widely-reported fact is hard to reconcile with Thargor’s view that the church tax receipts are simply "extracted by the Vatican".

The bottom line here is that the German church’s transfers to the Vatican are significant - to the Vatican. Along with transfers from the US church, they make up more than half of the Vatican’s annual income. But in terms of the German church they are not very significant at all, because the German church is vastly wealthier than the Vatican.

And it’s precisely because of the social, etc services funded by the church tax that, although the tax is much criticised, proposals to abolish it are not always popular. The fact is that the church tax in Germany supports services which, in other countries, would be paid for out of general taxation. And if the church tax is abolished, assuming people don’t want service cuts other taxes will have to rise - not by the full amount of the church tax, but by the part of it which is spent on social and educational services.

Well and good, you might say; there would still be a net reduction in taxation, and the elimination of an anomalous tax. But the point is that there would also be a shift in the burden of taxation, away from those who currently pay the church tax and onto those who currently don’t - non-church members, students (who have an exemption) and church members who have no taxable income. Thus a fair chunk of those who might be expected to dislike the church tax as a matter of principle will lose out financially if it is abolished. And those who have renounced church membership in order to avoid the church tax would find the effect of this partly reversed. Hence plenty of grumbling but not so much in the way of coherent moves to reform the system

That link is subscriber only. Could you link to a source providing evidence that the claim here: Only if you count money spent building and running schools, hospitals, residential and convalescent homes, child care centres, etc in Germany as "money extracted from Germany by the Vatican" is true? Surely if the tax money collected is spent on "building and running schools, hospitals, residential and convalescent homes, child care centres, etc" the church would be only too happy to provide information on its spending in such areas?

robindch

Peregrinus wrote: »

Actually, accountability and transparency are better than in Ireland , which (a) is not unconnected with the fact that the churches are in receipt of taxpayer funds, and (b) is how we come to know about the Bishop of Bling’s tastes in interior decoration.

Accountability and transparency are better in Germany than in Ireland as there is virtually none of either here.

If they were "good" in Germany, then there wouldn't be a question about whether the bishop's palace cost €31m or whether it was €40 as many have suggested. And neither could the bishop have plausibly claimed that "relinquished responsibility" for the build could have got him off hook (which to be fair to Pope Frank, it didn't).

Somebody with better German than mine might enjoy a report into the construction of the palace. The itemized list starts on page 81. Hard to pick out a favorite amongst so many nuggets of literal gold, but there has to be a special award somewhere for the €19,000 spent on what appears to be an outdoor (?) path made of electrically-heated natural stone - presumably for all those times when one has had to abandon the short journey to one's own private chapel for fear of chilling one's sole.

Thargor

Peregrinus wrote: »

Which contradicts Thargor’s claim that it’s “extracted by the Vatican”. It stays in Germany, except to the extent that the German dioceses wish to pay it to the Vatican, or to missionary or development work outside Germany.

You dont think... no it couldnt be... :eek:

Dont be so naive Peregrinus, its a money making racket.

Peregrinus

Robin has posted evidence that the money is spent in Germany. I have posted evidence that the money is largely spent in Germany. We've both posted accounts of how we see this working.

In support of your claim that the money goes to the Vatican you've posted . . . nothing. 'Nuff said.

This board is populated by sceptics, Thargor. We notice these things.

Thargor

Peregrinus wrote: »

Robin has posted evidence that the money is spent in Germany. I have posted evidence that the money is largely spent in Germany. We've both posted accounts of how we see this working.

In support of your claim that the money goes to the Vatican you've posted . . . nothing. 'Nuff said.

This board is populated by sceptics, Thargor. We notice these things.

Here you go, 5 seconds googling:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100554748

In 2011, the Holy See brought in $308 million in revenue, with $326 million in expenditures, for a deficit of about $18 million, according to Catholic News Service.

The budget of the Holy See includes the Vatican Secretariat of State and its diplomatic missions around the world, Vatican councils, the Holy See's investment portfolio and properties, plus the Vatican's newspaper, radio, publishing house and television production.

Its revenues included about $61 million from the Vatican bank, which donates its investment profits, contributions from dioceses and religious orders, and financial investment returns.

The United States, Germany and Italy give the biggest contributions every year, according to the Vatican.

https://www.cai.org/bible-studies/vatican-billions

Government Collected Millions for Vatican

In some countries, not only does the Church evade taxation, but the state itself collects taxation on her behalf. This absurdity has been one of the most extraordinary peculiarities of Germany, which "compels" German citizens to pay a "Kirchensteuer" (Church Tax).

It was first inspired by the Weimar Constitution of 1919, and confirmed by the pact between Hitler and the Vatican in their concordat of 1933. The Kirchensteuer was made constitutional in 1949, after the Second World War. The Catholic government - that is the Christian Democrats - not only enforced the church taxation upon an unwilling populace, it put the state machinery at the disposal of the church. Thus the Government collected the tax, enforced its payment, and then handed over the money thus collected to the Church.

Before the Second World War, the German citizens used to pay an average of two or three marks a year. By 1972, the figure rose to between fifty-five and sixty marks.

In Germany, therefore, the Vatican, besides enjoying outstanding financial benefits from its skilful penetration of the giant industrial concerns (as it did in Italy and in the United States), had its coffers replenished with additional millions from the Kirchensteuer, to the tune of some 350 million dollars a year. The scheme being the result of the political Catholicism which dominated the life of post-war Germany for so long.

Pretty amazing that you can boast about being a sceptic while doubting this goes on Peregrinus, I assume from the multiple paragraphs you've written defending this arrangement that you're sceptical about the merits of the seperation of church and state aswell?

galljga1

robindch wrote: »

Accountability and transparency are better in Germany than in Ireland as there is virtually none of either here.

If they were "good" in Germany, then there wouldn't be a question about whether the bishop's palace cost €31m or whether it was €40 as many have suggested. And neither could the bishop have plausibly claimed that "relinquished responsibility" for the build could have got him off hook (which to be fair to Pope Frank, it didn't).

Somebody with better German than mine might enjoy a report into the construction of the palace. The itemized list starts on page 81. Hard to pick out a favorite amongst so many nuggets of literal gold, but there has to be a special award somewhere for the €19,000 spent on what appears to be an outdoor (?) path made of electrically-heated natural stone - presumably for all those times when one has had to abandon the short journey to one's own private chapel for fear of chilling one's sole.

I like that but you have misspelled soul.

robindch

galljga1 wrote: »

I like that but you have misspelled soul.

*cough*

robindch

Peregrinus wrote: »

In support of your claim that the money goes to the Vatican you've posted . . . nothing. 'Nuff said.

Thargor's original claim was that the money was extracted "from Germany" "by the Vatican". Both claims are true and neither claim suggested that all the money was siphoned off to Rome by Pope Frank and his white cat. It's clear that most of the cash remains in Germany, though significant amounts are provided to the Vatican as well.

lazygal

robindch wrote: »

*cough*

Did you catch a chill walking on an unheated path?

robindch

lazygal wrote: »

Did you catch a chill walking on an unheated path?

Nearly caught my death of a cold - but my slippers, artisan-turned from the eyelids of virgin hamsters, each one of God's little creatures flown individually by balloon from an Andean nature reserve where they are hand-feed with the milk of Namibian dormice, saved me from a fate commensurable with the the mildest possible discomfort.