Viral Facebook video speaking out about domestic violence (Read mod note in the OP)

Trudiha · 10-07-2015 11:37am

Dogowner55 wrote: »

How does a revenge video change any of that? If anything the video is less effective then going through proper authorities.

It breaks the silence, sexual and physical abusers then to rely on their victims’ shame and silence. Calls to Woman’s’ Aid were up 270% yesterday. Emma has put herself in a position where she can’t return to her abuser, her kids won’t have to watch their mammy being hit (pushed?) again.

I’m quite uncomfortable about the use of the word ‘revenge’ to describe her video, she didn’t name her former partner, she didn’t mention where he lives or works. She told her own story, not his. I’m reminded of the cliché of living well being the best form or revenge and I hope that it what she will start to do.

I think that it also worth noting that her former partner was happy to discuss this with a reporter, he's had his own say in The Sun, so he obviously has no problem with this being discussed publically.

Dogowner55 · 10-07-2015 11:38am

LexieOnRale wrote: »

All she did was tell women that it was okay to leave a hostile environment, to walk away and not let anyone use them as a punching bag. She didn't name him once. He was the one who outed himself.
Yet, she's the liar, she's the one making it up, she's the physco, she deserved it.

Lord help us

His name was outed by mob before he ever said a word.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 10-07-2015 11:41am

Dogowner55 wrote: »

His name was outed by mob before he ever said a word.

That's not her fault.

Trudiha · 10-07-2015 11:44am

tritium wrote: »

And to relate this to the previous point, the latest available statistics (NCC 2005 report) show that approximately the same percentage of men suffer domestic abuse of some form, and face similar (or worse) issues. I'm still unsure however why that has any relevance to dismissing the previous point

Here's a link to the report that you have totally misrepresented:

https://www.esri.ie/news_events/press_releases_archive/2005/domestic_abuse_of_women_a/index.xml

P. Breathnach · 10-07-2015 11:47am

Dogowner55 wrote: »

I am not I am waiting for the offical authorities to give the fact, just like everyone else should.

But in the meantime you judge her motives in posting the video, describing it as "a revenge video", and you post a link to an unrelated case of a woman making a false accusation of assault against her ex.

wetfoot · 10-07-2015 11:48am

I don't know where anyone could get the notion that domestic violence is a 50/50 thing from those stats or any other.

That report shows that women overwhelmingly experience DV at much higher levels and much more seriously, in every aspect.

Given that domestic violence also includes familial violence these stats often include gang related and other types of sibling crime related conflict in the case of male victims. It's not compatible, not equal and you won't find a stat anywhere in the world that says it does.

Trudiha · 10-07-2015 11:48am

Dogowner55 wrote: »

His name was outed by mob before he ever said a word.

There is no mob. He is staying at his mammy's house with a few reporters outside, reporters he had freely spoken to. No one is banging pots outside, threatening him or baying for his blood. This mob exists nowhere but in the minds’ of his apologists.

Some people have expressed their contempt for his actions because his actions were contemptible.

Menas · 10-07-2015 11:52am

Trudiha wrote: »

There is no mob. He is staying at his mammy's house with a few reporters outside, reporters he had freely spoken to. No one is banging pots outside, threatening him or baying for his blood. This mob exists nowhere but in the minds’ of his apologists.

Some people have expressed their contempt for his actions because his actions were contemptible.

I know this is the hearald, but they report that "Sources say gardai were unaware of reports that threats had been made against Mr Usanga since Ms Murphy's internet video."

zeffabelli · 10-07-2015 11:53am

wetfoot wrote: »

Ah, the famed 'asking for it/it's her own fault' argument.

1 in 4 women in ireland experiences domestic violence. This is an official statistic from the EU special rapporteur. Thats not the number of people who report it btw, that number is much lower. In fact about 20% of those victims actually tell the police, or their GP. Most of the 80% who tell no one do so for a number of reasons, fear of being believed, shame, fear of losing their kids, fear of losing their home etc. etc.

Plus, there's not exactly a huge amount of refuges in Ireland or spaces.

The notion that it's really easy to escape domestic violence, or that there's a magic number to call which will immediately bestow housing, security and safety is a fantasy. And even if there was imagine being beaten, emotionally abused and being made to feel that you're worthless over a long period of time. And then knowing that if you do tell anyone you're likely to be met with accusations that somehow you brought this on yourself.

No wonder so many women don't tell anyone.

Abuse happens over a long period of time. No one ever thumped someone on a first date, theres usually plenty of emotional wearing down and chipping away at self confidence first. Abusers are really really good at what they do. And it could happen to any one of you. All you confident, outgoing, forthright in your opinion, posters could be a victim one day. No matter how unlikely you think it might be.

But you know what, even though if it happens there'll be plenty of people lining up to tell you it's up own fault or you've handled it all really badly or you must have done something to deserve it or you secretly liked it, it will still be ok because there'll also be people there to tell you they believe you and you didn't deserve it.

I know which side I'd rather be on.

You're not getting what I'm saying because you're stuck in the powerless blame paradigm.

Yeah I also know what side id rather be on, the side that tells me yes I can change things, no I'm not a victim, yes there are ways out, yes there are ways to change the dynamic.

This social media trial is another kind of violence, however well meaning the intention is.

zeffabelli · 10-07-2015 11:57am

LexieOnRale wrote: »

That's not her fault.

Yes it is.

Trudiha · 10-07-2015 12:01pm

zeffabelli wrote: »

You're not getting what I'm saying because you're stuck in the powerless blame paradigm.

Yeah I also know what side id rather be on, the side that tells me yes I can change things, no I'm not a victim, yes there are ways out, yes there are ways to change the dynamic.

This social media trial is another kind of violence, however well meaning the intention is.

No, people talking about you on the internet are people talking about you on the internet, that's not violence.

You seem to think that you are in some way empowering victims of domestic violence by attempting to silence them, disbelieving what they are saying and telling them that they are victims of nothing but their own inaction. I promise you that by doing that, you’re part of the problem.

DrFloppy · 10-07-2015 12:01pm

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Yet, she's the liar, she's the one making it up, she's the physco, she deserved it.

Lord help us

When did I ever say any of those things about her? It's not even possible to have a reasoned, logical debate with this kind of hysteria. Good luck to you. :rolleyes:

zeffabelli · 10-07-2015 12:11pm

Trudiha wrote: »

No, people talking about you on the internet are people talking about you on the internet, that's not violence.

You seem to think that you are in some way empowering victims of domestic violence by attempting to silence them, disbelieving what they are saying and telling them that they are victims of nothing but their own inaction. I promise you that by doing that, you’re part of the problem.

Wrong again.

I'm talking about this particular woman and how she had chosen to tell her story.

This is not empowering to anyone and without medical evidence of a head split open she's opened herself up to a defamation case.

The man accused, because that's all we know right now with any certainty, is living with the consequences before any due process has been carried out.

So no, what she has done is not empowering to other victims, but frankly pretty stupid and thoughtless.

NachoBusiness · 10-07-2015 12:12pm

CaoimheSquee wrote: »

There is never a situation, if's or buts, where someone has asked to be beaten.

Sigh.

I never said there was (and certainly wouldn't in this context) but in saying that.. your statement is quite laughable all the same.

Trudiha · 10-07-2015 12:30pm

zeffabelli wrote: »

Wrong again.

I'm talking about this particular woman and how she had chosen to tell her story.

This is not empowering to anyone and without medical evidence of a head split open she's opened herself up to a defamation case.

The man accused, because that's all we know right now with any certainty, is living with the consequences before any due process has been carried out.

So no, what she has done is not empowering to other victims, but frankly pretty stupid and thoughtless.

How do you know there is no medical evidence, many victims who don't contact the authorities do seek medical treatment? To say that there is no evidence just because you haven't seen it, is another example of assuming Emma is lying. As I’ve already said, the FBI report that 98% of domestic violence victims are telling the truth, the odds are on her side. Perhaps you're opening yourself up to a defamation case?

Emma, like all victims of domestic violence, is also living with the consequences of his actions long before due process is carried out, she has obvious and probably painful injuries, she can no longer live safely in the family home and I’d be very surprised if he is paying towards support their children. His violent assault, an assault he has admitted to, caused that.

Calls to WA are up 270%, those women have been empowered.

Dogowner55 · 10-07-2015 12:37pm

Trudiha wrote: »

I’d be very surprised if he is paying towards support their children.
.

Why? Cause of a sterotype his culture don't pay childcare and are deadbeats?

zeffabelli · 10-07-2015 12:42pm

Trudiha wrote: »

How do you know there is no medical evidence, many victims who don't contact the authorities do seek medical treatment? To say that there is no evidence just because you haven't seen it, is another example of assuming Emma is lying. As I’ve already said, the FBI report that 98% of domestic violence victims are telling the truth, the odds are on her side. Perhaps you're opening yourself up to a defamation case?

Emma, like all victims of domestic violence, is also living with the consequences of his actions long before due process is carried out, she has obvious and probably painful injuries, she can no longer live safely in the family home and I’d be very surprised if he is paying towards support their children. His violent assault, an assault he has admitted to, caused that.

Calls to WA are up 270%, those women have been empowered.

He certainly won't be able to pay anything with a ruined career.

If you don't follow due process, them what you are doing is vigilantism.

As a strategy, this was really stupid, because if what she says is true, and this is her response to her processing of events, it now places him in the position of victim.

If it were about awareness, which I don't believe for a minute it is, the wiser thing to do is talk to a journalist about your story and withhold the identity of yourself and your family.

Those kids are now part of that story too, kids whose images she placed on Facebook while hearing stories of their fathers alleged violence.

And yes they should be protected from that knowledge.

NachoBusiness · 10-07-2015 1:16pm

zeffabelli wrote: »

If it were about awareness, which I don't believe for a minute it is..

There is a not a chance that she hit that record button with awareness in mind, not in my view at least..

I'm not saying it was 100% for 'I'll show you' reasons, maybe she was depressed (understandably) and she felt doing this would make her feel better, but no, it had nothing to do with awareness, nobody is that selfless. As I said earlier, the adrenaline would still be coursing through her veins from the altercation and naturally you would consumed with how this has all effected you, your relationship, your kids, your family, your life etc etc.

You don't start think about awareness of domestic abuse when you're knee deep in the reality of it. Few months down the road, sure, but not a few dates later. Her motives for making that video were not anything to do with helping others. For a start, she would only have felt a small section of people would have seen this and so are we to believe this was about raising awareness of domestic abuse within her circle of friends / blog readers? Come on.

I don't think she is a bad person, but lets not be so naive as to think her reasons for making this video were all angelic. She was justice and was motivated in that regard for sure, and if he's guilty, well then who can really blame her but following her lead would not be the way to go for any woman, as selfie videos in this context have more potential to see genuine cases of abuse not getting justice in the courts than anything else. Or could even result in libel cases. Or, if the guy / woman is a real nutcase, it might even result in them getting attacked fatally should they be infuriated that what they have done has now been posted online.

tritium · 10-07-2015 1:25pm

Trudiha wrote: »

Here's a link to the report that you have totally misrepresented:

https://www.esri.ie/news_events/press_releases_archive/2005/domestic_abuse_of_women_a/index.xml

Horse****, I misrepresented nothing, as I think you realise only too well.

The post I responded to quoted a one in four statistic. The comparable figure from the (fairly definitive) NCC survey is for all forms of domestic abuse. The figures for men and women are broadly the same for this. If you'd like to focus on severe abuse the figures are higher for women than men, but dramatically below the 1 in. 4 figure that was quoted. I think I'll generally place my faith here on well constructed statistical analysis once the methodology is free from deliberate biases.

So tell me exactly what did I misrepresent again?

CaoimheSquee · 10-07-2015 1:33pm

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Sigh.

I never said there was (and certainly wouldn't in this context) but in saying that.. your statement is quite laughable all the same.

Then why say what you did at all?

Electric Sheep · 10-07-2015 1:41pm

zeffabelli wrote: »

And yes they should be protected from that knowledge.

Why should they be protected from the truth?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 10-07-2015 1:41pm

zeffabelli wrote: »

Yes it is.

She has a black eye. She has nothing to be ashamed of. If she wants to write a book about her life and document it with selfies, she's well within her rights to do so. Big swing of a cows tit that his customers are cancelling sessions and asking for refunds, not her problem.

NachoBusiness · 10-07-2015 1:44pm

CaoimheSquee wrote: »

Then why say what you did at all?

I was making a specific point.

Maybe if you weren't so hell bent on seeing what you wanted to, you would have noticed.

NachoBusiness wrote: »

She slathered the video from start to finish with an awareness subtext. The truth is she needed to though, as how else could she get away with doing what she did. If it had been a..

The point is, she made the video which she did because she had to, as a more honest video would have seen her being regarded as somewhat of a bunny boiler, that may not be the victim she was protraying her self as, and who most likely had more of a part to play in the altercation that she wasn't being 100% forthcoming about. Hell, since I made that post people have posted online and said as much, so of course that would be increased had she made the type of video I suggest. The media wouldn't have went near her with a barge pole either. Saying this does not mean I believe that she 'deserved a beating' or whatever else anybody wants to suggest.

tritium · 10-07-2015 1:44pm

wetfoot wrote: »

I don't know where anyone could get the notion that domestic violence is a 50/50 thing from those stats or any other.

That report shows that women overwhelmingly experience DV at much higher levels and much more seriously, in every aspect.

Given that domestic violence also includes familial violence these stats often include gang related and other types of sibling crime related conflict in the case of male victims. It's not compatible, not equal and you won't find a stat anywhere in the world that says it does.

You really didn't bother reading that report before you hit reply did you?

Just to be clear,
1. The report looks at partner violence in intimate relationships. From the release accompanying the report:

the first ever large scale study undertaken to give an overview of the nature, extent and impact of domestic abuse against women and men in intimate partner relationships in Ireland.

So not gang or sibling violence. Frankly your response here reminds me of the nonsense spouted by a women's aid representative a few years back who claimed male victims were as a result of violence in homosexual relationships.

2 comparability of numbers: I believe this is covered by the statistic for percentage suffering all forms of domestic abuse-, which sits in the upper twenty percent for both genders. Did you miss that number?-see table 2.1 page 53, notably the final three rows

3. There is a vast range of research that shows comparable levels of domestic abuse by male and female abusers (and also looks in detail at mutually abusive scenarios). I quoted the most pertinent for Ireland, which as I detailed in point 2 does show similar levels, however Google is your friend here, these are not hard to find!

eviltwin · 10-07-2015 1:48pm

tritium wrote: »

You really didn't bother reading that report before you hit reply did you?

Just to be clear,
1. The report looks at partner violence in intimate relationships. From the release accompanying the report:

So not gang or sibling violence. Frankly your response here reminds me of the nonsense spouted by a women's aid representative a few years back who claimed male victims were as a result of violence in homosexual relationships.

2 comparability of numbers: I believe this is covered by the statistic for percentage suffering all forms of domestic abuse-, which sits in the upper twenty percent for both genders. Did you miss that number?-see table 2.1 page 53, notably the final three rows

3. There is a vast range of research that shows comparable levels of domestic abuse by male and female abusers (and also looks in detail at mutually abusive scenarios). I quoted the most pertinent for Ireland, which as I detailed in point 2 does show similar levels, however Google is your friend here, these are not hard to find!

How many men die each year at the hands of an intimate partner? No one is suggesting men are less likely to be victims just that the outcomes for women are more likely to be more serious and you don't get more serious than death.

RDM_83 again · 10-07-2015 1:49pm

The thing is, either you use the 1 in 4 figure and set a low threshold for abuse, in which case you have tp admit she began the abuse in this incident (by her own admission) or you don't .
Either something is abuse or it isn't it can't be both.

I'm not excusing his apparent actions but I'm highlighting the very much gendered lack of logic when talking about abuse.

tritium · 10-07-2015 1:52pm

wetfoot wrote: »

I don't know where anyone could get the notion that domestic violence is a 50/50 thing from those stats or any other.

That report shows that women overwhelmingly experience DV at much higher levels and much more seriously, in every aspect.

Given that domestic violence also includes familial violence these stats often include gang related and other types of sibling crime related conflict in the case of male victims. It's not compatible, not equal and you won't find a stat anywhere in the world that says it does.

You really didn't bother reading that report before you hit reply did you?

Just to be clear,
1. The report looks at partner violence in intimate relationships. From the release accompanying the report:

the first ever large scale study undertaken to give an overview of the nature, extent and impact of domestic abuse against women and men in intimate partner relationships in Ireland.

So not gang or sibling violence. Frankly your response here reminds me of the nonsense spouted by a women's aid representative a few years back who claimed male victims were as a result of violence in homosexual relationships.

2 comparability of numbers: I believe this is covered by the statistic for percentage suffering all forms of domestic abuse-, which sits in the upper twenty percent for both genders. Did you miss that number?-see table 2.1 page 53, notably the final three rows

3. There is a vast range of research that shows comparable levels of domestic abuse by male and female abusers (and also looks in detail at mutually abusive scenarios). I quoted the most pertinent for Ireland, which as I detailed in point 2 does show similar levels, however Google is your friend here, these are not hard to find!

DrFloppy · 10-07-2015 1:53pm

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Big swing of a cows tit that his customers are cancelling sessions and asking for refunds, not her problem.

So you support vigilantism then? That's big of you.

Any right minded person looking at this situation would abhor trial by social media and only be interested in due process and the legal and judicial system's outcome.

The precedent set by this is terrifying.

zeffabelli · 10-07-2015 1:55pm

LexieOnRale wrote: »

She has a black eye. She has nothing to be ashamed of. If she wants to write a book about her life and document it with selfies, she's well within her rights to do so. Big swing of a cows tit that his customers are cancelling sessions and asking for refunds, not her problem.

It will be her problem when she gets no child support because he has no money, from loss of business and legal defence expenses.

You can be well within your rights but that doesn't mean practising them is without consequence.

You can insult someone's mother at her funeral but don't get surprised if you get slapped in the face.

You can write all the books you want but that doesn't mean you won't be liable for defamation or other consequences.

Riskymove · 10-07-2015 1:55pm

LexieOnRale wrote: »

And you don't know how much abuse she may have been dealing with for however many years she's been with him, so don't brand her as a liar until the facts are straight. She's also innocent until proven guilty.

this is nonsense

saying "we don't know if a person is telling the truth" is not the same as saying "that person is a liar"

Viral Facebook video speaking out about domestic violence (Read mod note in the OP)

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