Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Viral Facebook video speaking out about domestic violence (Read mod note in the OP)

Options
1…1718192123

Comments

  • Options
    #602
    Trudiha
    Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Trudiha


    Dogowner55 wrote: »
    If the stereotype is for women not to believed, it's better then the men are all violent rapists. I don't understand why there is not so much more internalised misandry, who would want to be part of that.
    .

    I'm not aware of the stereotype that all men are violent rapists. I don't think I've ever heard those words uttered by anyone in seriousness. I don't think that they would get much traction if they were.

    There probably is a fair bit of internalised misandry, I'm sure there are many men who like to be living slightly different lives, who'd maybe like to see more of their kids or have a different kind of career. I don't think that the patriarchy serves the majority of men well, it's just as ****e for the skint husband of the woman not earning as much as her male colleague as it is for the skint wife. Things don't change by shouting 'what about me?', they will change when the real problems are addressed.


  • Options
    #603
    RedemptionZ
    Registered Users Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭RedemptionZ


    Trudiha wrote: »
    It’s not surprising that some women internalise misogyny. A quick scan of this thread will see the suggestion that women aren’t to be believed repeated over and over again. Who in their right mind would want to be part of that, even if it does mean that the alternative is being like a turkey voting for Christmas.

    Innocent until proven guilty. When it's a serious accusation like this evidence needs to be presented. Obviously she looks injured but we don't know what caused it, there are ways of proving that and until she does that, ie. Go the gardai, I'll not jump to any conclusions.

    That's how every case should be treated, no exceptions. That's not woman hating, I'd think the same if it were two gay males and one made a claim without proof or even if a husband did about his wife.


  • Options
    #604
    Electric Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 2,104 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    It's the wrong type of attention.. in my view.

    'A woman must never hit a man' was her overriding message, over and over and so I have to question the type of people she has influenced to pick up the phone. Is this gonna be the new craze? Post a video selfie whenever you've been the victim of domestic abuse? If it is, then convictions are more likely to drop than rise. Calls to telephone hotlines rose when Take That broke up, it really means very little, that's just how public consciousness works. If Gardai reports are on the rise in a fortnight, I'll believe she has done something positive, but otherwise I'm standing my opinion that she has in fact done more harm than she has good. Hopefully I'm wrong.
    One should certainly take a selfie every time one is abused, evidence and documentation are key in these cases. I wouldn't post it, but I am not the facebook police.


  • Options
    #605
    Trudiha
    Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Trudiha


    RedemptionZ wrote: »
    Innocent until proven guilty. When it's a serious accusation like this evidence needs to be presented. Obviously she looks injured but we don't know what caused it, there are ways of proving that and until she does that, ie. Go the gardai, I'll not jump to any conclusions.

    That's how every case should be treated, no exceptions. That's not woman hating, I'd think the same if it were two gay males and one made a claim without proof or even if a husband did about his wife.

    The legal system is presuming innocence, that's why he's not locked up, but this isn't Schrödinger's Punch. You can't pretend that something didn't happen until it's been proven in a count, you just can't expect someone to be punished for it.



    The suggestion, made more than once on this thread, that Emma can’t talk about her own assault (and even her former partner has agreed that he assaulted her) and that, somehow accusing someone of domestic abuse is worse than the abuse itself, seems to me to have its roots in misogyny.


  • Options
    #606
    DrFloppy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 140 ✭✭DrFloppy


    Trudiha wrote: »
    somehow accusing someone of domestic abuse is worse than the abuse itself, seems to me to have its roots in misogyny.

    Being falsely accused of a crime and being an actual victim of the same crime are - well - two different crimes. You can't compare the two and you certainly can't say that saying that one is worse than the other his 'its roots in misogyny'. Why?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #607
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    He admitted assaulting her though, am I right?


  • Options
    #608
    CaoimheSquee
    Registered Users Posts: 359 ✭✭CaoimheSquee


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    Perfect example if ever there was one of taking what someone has said completely out of context just so you can suggest they have said something which they patently have not. Now lets put the above sentence back in context shall we (if that's okay with you):



    So you see, what I actually said was that she would most likely have been seen as someone that asked for it if she had made a ''Look what the bastard did to me this time" style video rather than the one she did make.



    Well, not if you're going to incorrectly comprehend what I have said there isn't, no.

    There is never a situation, if's or buts, where someone has asked to be beaten.


  • Options
    #609
    Dogowner55
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 149 ✭✭Dogowner55


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    He admitted assaulting her though, am I right?

    He said he pushed back, after she threw the phone and started it, so depending what the gaurds reveal how much she did it might be self defense the minor part of original guards report might indicate he might not be done for assault.

    If she was at him first he has the right to get her off him.


  • Options
    #610
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    I agree everybody has the right to defend themselves, but with reasonable force. unless he pushed her with his fist I can't see how he'd have got such precision. You push someone off that's attacking you, they would tend to stumble backwards, no? Push someone from behind I could be convinced they'd whack their face.


  • Options
    #611
    Trudiha
    Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Trudiha


    DrFloppy wrote: »
    Being falsely accused of a crime and being an actual victim of the same crime are - well - two different crimes. You can't compare the two and you certainly can't say that saying that one is worse than the other his 'its roots in misogyny'. Why?

    No both of these 'crimes' can't exist at the same time in this case. Either he has assaulted her, as she claims and he admits, although there is disagreement over the nature of the assault or she is making a false allegation.

    Of course, it doesn’t have to be misogynistic to think that a woman is lying, however, the way that in which those who disbelieve this particular women have raised their doubts has, at times, been couched in misogynistic language.

    The FBI, who know about these sorts of things, say that 2% of domestic abuse allegations are false. I know that if a bookmaker was able to give the odds of something taking were 98% positive, most right thinking people with a degree of numeric literacy, would be happy to put on a sizable bet. Why aren’t they willing to give Emma the benefit of the doubt?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #612
    Dogowner55
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 149 ✭✭Dogowner55


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    I agree everybody has the right to defend themselves, but with reasonable force. unless he pushed her with his fist I can't see how he'd have got such precision. You push someone off that's attacking you, they would tend to stumble backwards, no? Push someone from behind I could be convinced they'd whack their face.

    downtrend.com/71superb/woman-fakes-domestic-violence-attacks-to-frame-ex-boyfriend

    Let the guards investigate, we don't know how she got the black eye. Offical authorities will determine that, it was in a business so hopefully there is vid footage to give the gaurds.

    You can fall awkward hit your eye area, I have given myself an accidental black eye before when I tripped.


  • Options
    #613
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Dogowner55 wrote: »
    downtrend.com/71superb/woman-fakes-domestic-violence-attacks-to-frame-ex-boyfriend

    Let the guards investigate, we don't know how she got the black eye. Offical authorities will determine that, it was in a business so hopefully there is vid footage to give the gaurds.

    You can fall awkward hit your eye area, I have given myself an accidental black eye before when I tripped.

    It's no wonder so many women won't come forward about being abused at home when there's attitudes like this


  • Options
    #614
    zeffabelli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,516 ✭✭✭zeffabelli


    Dogowner55 wrote: »
    He said he pushed back, after she threw the phone and started it, so depending what the gaurds reveal how much she did it might be self defense the minor part of original guards report might indicate he might not be done for assault.

    If she was at him first he has the right to get her off him.

    She also claims he split her head open on a previous occassion.

    I get Stockholm syndrome, I get how people can forgive family members for transgressions they'd forgive no one else for, I get how attachment can blind you, but if what she says is true then these explanations still don't wipe away her own complicity.

    There is far too much status attributed to victim status, and no one wants to evaluate their own colluding. Responsibility is not the same as blame, responsibility is neutral assessment and response, blame us moral superiority.

    For me this is not about the truth of her story, but how she is telling it and how basically the avenues by which she had broadcast this has denied him of the right to a fair defence, which everyone is entitled to.


  • Options
    #615
    Dogowner55
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 149 ✭✭Dogowner55


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    It's no wonder so many women won't come forward about being abused at home when there's attitudes like this

    Why that people go through offical channels to report a crime instead of inciting a mob for vigilante justice with no proof needed


  • Options
    #616
    zeffabelli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,516 ✭✭✭zeffabelli


    Trudiha wrote: »
    The legal system is presuming innocence, that's why he's not locked up, but this isn't Schrödinger's Punch. You can't pretend that something didn't happen until it's been proven in a count, you just can't expect someone to be punished for it.



    The suggestion, made more than once on this thread, that Emma can’t talk about her own assault (and even her former partner has agreed that he assaulted her) and that, somehow accusing someone of domestic abuse is worse than the abuse itself, seems to me to have its roots in misogyny.

    Actually if you want to compare I'd take some eye bruising over this social media public tar and feathering campaign.


  • Options
    #617
    wetfoot
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭wetfoot


    I think everyone complaining about her posting on social media would have a better case if the guard response to domestic violence was robust, reliable and she would be protected. If she absolutely knew without doubt that she wouldn't be met with an intake of breath and a response of "well, that's what you say... ".

    One of the biggest barriers to reporting is not only shame and secrecy but the overwhelming knowledge that it's likely to be minimised, she may not be believed and indeed not protected from further assaults.

    I say fair play to her. I think telling what happened not only raised awareness but put herself in a position where he can't hurt her any more (due to the publicity) and she's prevented herself remaining with him because of all the barriers to leaving I've mentioned above.

    And let's not forget he's admitted assaulting her. There's been no denial, he's contesting and probably trying to minimise what happened but he's still admitted assaulting her. I doubt very much he'd be having that conversation with the guards has there not been the publicity. Plus it's been seen as a 'minor' incident which I think should tell you all you need to know about how domestic violence is seen by some authorities.

    So no, I have no sympathy for him. He hit her because he thought she wouldn't say anything and he thought he was entitled to. And he's still being arrogant enough to think he was the one wronged,

    Somewhere she found the strength to not only tell her family but to tell everyone. We shouldn't be criticising her, we should all be applauding her because it might make other men think twice and other women come forward.


  • Options
    #618
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    zeffabelli wrote: »
    For me this is not about the truth of her story, but how she is telling it and how basically the avenues by which she had broadcast this has denied him of the right to a fair defence, which everyone is entitled to.

    absolutely the core of the issue

    despite what is being claimed by some, I don't think anyone is blaming the woman for being a victim.

    I think most would agree that if it happened as described that he would face the legal consequences and that she can move on in her life

    the issue is the idea of anyone, on any issue, making claims about someone publicly which will never be undone is frankly scary


  • Options
    #619
    Trudiha
    Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Trudiha


    Dogowner55 wrote: »
    Why that people go through offical channels to report a crime instead of inciting a mob for vigilante justice with no proof needed

    Emma hasn’t incited anyone to violence. The man who agrees that he assaulted her hasn’t been the victim of a vigilante mob, from what I read in the papers he's staying in his mum's house. People are expressing their disgust at his action verbally and in print, in the same way that we tend to do with most violent offenders.


  • Options
    #620
    Trudiha
    Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Trudiha


    Riskymove wrote: »
    despite what is being claimed by some, I don't think anyone is blaming the woman for being a victim.

    You don't have to look very far for this, in post #614 on the previous page, she is clearly accused of being complicit in her own assault and not for the first time.


  • Options
    #621
    zeffabelli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,516 ✭✭✭zeffabelli


    Trudiha wrote: »
    You don't have to look very far for this, in post #614 on the previous page, she is clearly accused of being complicit in her own assault and not for the first time.

    She is not complicit in her assault she is complicit in the cycle of violence and has perpetuated more injustice with how she has chosen to broadcast her story.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #622
    wetfoot
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭wetfoot


    zeffabelli wrote: »
    She is not complicit in her assault she is complicit in the cycle of violence and has perpetuated more injustice with how she has chosen to broadcast her story.

    Ah, the famed 'asking for it/it's her own fault' argument.

    1 in 4 women in ireland experiences domestic violence. This is an official statistic from the EU special rapporteur. Thats not the number of people who report it btw, that number is much lower. In fact about 20% of those victims actually tell the police, or their GP. Most of the 80% who tell no one do so for a number of reasons, fear of being believed, shame, fear of losing their kids, fear of losing their home etc. etc.

    Plus, there's not exactly a huge amount of refuges in Ireland or spaces.

    The notion that it's really easy to escape domestic violence, or that there's a magic number to call which will immediately bestow housing, security and safety is a fantasy. And even if there was imagine being beaten, emotionally abused and being made to feel that you're worthless over a long period of time. And then knowing that if you do tell anyone you're likely to be met with accusations that somehow you brought this on yourself.

    No wonder so many women don't tell anyone.

    Abuse happens over a long period of time. No one ever thumped someone on a first date, theres usually plenty of emotional wearing down and chipping away at self confidence first. Abusers are really really good at what they do. And it could happen to any one of you. All you confident, outgoing, forthright in your opinion, posters could be a victim one day. No matter how unlikely you think it might be.

    But you know what, even though if it happens there'll be plenty of people lining up to tell you it's up own fault or you've handled it all really badly or you must have done something to deserve it or you secretly liked it, it will still be ok because there'll also be people there to tell you they believe you and you didn't deserve it.

    I know which side I'd rather be on.


  • Options
    #623
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    zeffabelli wrote: »
    She is not complicit in her assault she is complicit in the cycle of violence ...
    Either you don't understand the effects of domestic violence or you are wilfully presenting a distorted representation of how it works.

    One of the reasons why victims of domestic violence find it difficult to escape from the situation is that their psychological autonomy is taken from them.


  • Options
    #624
    Dogowner55
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 149 ✭✭Dogowner55


    wetfoot wrote: »
    Ah, the famed 'asking for it/it's her own fault' argument.

    1 in 4 women in ireland experiences domestic violence. This is an official statistic from the EU special rapporteur. Thats not the number of people who report it btw, that number is much lower. In fact about 20% of those victims actually tell the police, or their GP. Most of the 80% who tell no one do so for a number of reasons, fear of being believed, shame, fear of losing their kids, fear of losing their home etc. etc.

    Plus, there's not exactly a huge amount of refuges in Ireland or spaces.

    The notion that it's really easy to escape domestic violence, or that there's a magic number to call which will immediately bestow housing, security and safety is a fantasy. And even if there was imagine being beaten, emotionally abused and being made to feel that you're worthless over a long period of time. And then knowing that if you do tell anyone you're likely to be met with accusations that somehow you brought this on yourself.

    No wonder so many women don't tell anyone.

    Abuse happens over a long period of time. No one ever thumped someone on a first date, theres usually plenty of emotional wearing down and chipping away at self confidence first. Abusers are really really good at what they do. And it could happen to any one of you. All you confident, outgoing, forthright in your opinion, posters could be a victim one day. No matter how unlikely you think it might be.

    But you know what, even though if it happens there'll be plenty of people lining up to tell you it's up own fault or you've handled it all really badly or you must have done something to deserve it or you secretly liked it, it will still be ok because there'll also be people there to tell you they believe you and you didn't deserve it.

    I know which side I'd rather be on.


    How does a revenge video change any of that? If anything the video is less effective then going through proper authorities.


  • Options
    #625
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Dogowner55 wrote: »
    Why that people go through offical channels to report a crime instead of inciting a mob for vigilante justice with no proof needed

    Do you know how much your self esteem would be destroyed? Having someone much bigger on you beat you and have absolutely no respect for you (beating aside, he clearly didn't respect her if he knocked someone else up while she was pregnant). The gardai have no interest getting involved in domestic disputes, and will recommend you go to court to apply for an order whenever the court sitting is. With either a protection order or a safety order he doesn't have to leave the house (and where do you go with two small kids?)

    A few days later, and you're not as brave as you were with your face was pumping blood or your bruises were fresh. He's sorry, the kids are upset, and who's going to believe you anyway? What good is a safety order then sure didn't he say he was sorry. That he wouldn't do it again, he lost his temper and sure wasn't that your fault anyway, talking too much, nagging, winding him up, not having the house clean enough.

    So - I completely get why in the moment she might have been so upset that she made a video, before any self doubt sets in, while she still hates him for what he done, and while she's still determined she wants to get away from him.

    She never named him in the video, she simply made a video while she had visible injuries. She was well within her rights to do this. Why should she hide away until the bruises died down?

    If he didn't want an absolute ****storm he should have thought about that before assaulting her, man up and face the consequences. If he kept his hands to himself he wouldn't be in this mess.


  • Options
    #626
    Dogowner55
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 149 ✭✭Dogowner55


    LexieOnRale wrote: »

    If he didn't want an absolute ****storm he should have thought about that before assaulting her, man up and face the consequences. If he kept his hands to himself he wouldn't be in this mess.

    You don't know the details of the assualt could be self defense wait for the ofgical reports before judging him on it. Due procees has been thrown away by her actions and that's just not on.


  • Options
    #627
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Dogowner55 wrote: »
    You don't know the details of the assualt could be self defense wait for the ofgical reports before judging him on it. Due procees has been thrown away by her actions and that's just not on.


    And you don't know how much abuse she may have been dealing with for however many years she's been with him, so don't brand her as a liar until the facts are straight. She's also innocent until proven guilty.


  • Options
    #628
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,433 ✭✭✭tritium


    wetfoot wrote: »
    Ah, the famed 'asking for it/it's her own fault' argument.

    Wow, seems like a pretty big leap of logic from the point you're responding to from Zaffabelli! My understanding is that she has admitted to having been violent to him in the past also, and that this was a mutually abusive relationship to some extent. Given that can you explain how's exactly she's not complicit in perpetuating the cycle of violence as Zaffabelli asserted?


    1 in 4 women in ireland experiences domestic violence. This is an official statistic from the EU special rapporteur. Thats not the number of people who report it btw, that number is much lower. In fact about 20% of those victims actually tell the police, or their GP. Most of the 80% who tell no one do so for a number of reasons, fear of being believed, shame, fear of losing their kids, fear of losing their home etc. etc.

    Plus, there's not exactly a huge amount of refuges in Ireland or spaces.

    And to relate this to the previous point, the latest available statistics (NCC 2005 report) show that approximately the same percentage of men suffer domestic abuse of some form, and face similar (or worse) issues. I'm still unsure however why that has any relevance to dismissing the previous point


  • Options
    #629
    DrFloppy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 140 ✭✭DrFloppy


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    And you don't know how much abuse she may have been dealing with for however many years she's been with him, so don't brand her as a liar until the facts are straight. She's also innocent until proven guilty.

    Jesus wept :rolleyes:

    This case needs to be brought to court before the rest of us forget we're living in a democratic society with laws and a system of justice and not a schoolyard playground or a Medieval society in the dark ages.

    This circus is a disgrace and the media, Boards.ie included, should stop all of this until due process is undertaken.


  • Options
    #630
    Dogowner55
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 149 ✭✭Dogowner55


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    And you don't know how much abuse she may have been dealing with for however many years she's been with him, so don't brand her as a liar until the facts are straight. She's also innocent until proven guilty.

    I am not I am waiting for the offical authorities to give the fact, just like everyone else should.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #631
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    DrFloppy wrote: »
    Jesus wept :rolleyes:

    This case needs to be brought to court before the rest of us forget we're living in a democratic society with laws and a system of justice and not a schoolyard playground or a Medieval society in the dark ages.

    This circus is a disgrace and the media, Boards.ie included, should stop all of this until due process is undertaken.


    All she did was tell women that it was okay to leave a hostile environment, to walk away and not let anyone use them as a punching bag. She didn't name him once. He was the one who outed himself.
    Yet, she's the liar, she's the one making it up, she's the physco, she deserved it.

    Lord help us


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement