Batman: Arkham Knight (performance issues)

ERG89 · 23-06-2015 09:57AM

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I can see the consoles getting slated for this bad PC port.

Should be Rocksteady tbh. This is two Arkham launches in a row botched tbh(Origins wasn't rocksteady but still...). Not even a PC gamer but i'd be fuming at this if I was
My copy should be with me before Friday(not even fussed about a delay tbh)...I guess i'll give Arkham City a whirl before then if I can open my X360 disc tray again :P

Robert ninja · 23-06-2015 10:04AM

Captain Chaos wrote: »

There are no issues with console versions though.......:pac::D

That's because problems are 'features' according to you :P

Shiminay · 23-06-2015 10:10AM

PC Friends, we just had a Steam Sale, I'm sure plenty of us have plenty of games for playing till they fix it. I've got the 2 Wolfenstein games to get through - halfway through Old Blood atm and loving it, so I'm just not gonna stress about this cause it won't help.

VinLieger · 23-06-2015 10:11AM

Shiminay wrote: »

PC Friends, we just had a Steam Sale, I'm sure plenty of us have plenty of games for playing till they fix it. I've got the 2 Wolfenstein games to get through - halfway through Old Blood atm and loving it, so I'm just not gonna stress about this cause it won't help.

Also the perfect time to test the Steam Refunds feature, and then if and when they fix it just pick it up again

TheDoc · 23-06-2015 10:13AM

M!Ck^ wrote: »

My point was addressing the PC version but I suppose I was also having a go at pre-orders in general.
Like I could start nit-picking at the console release to say that consumers still don't know nor has it been confirmed by publishers / devs that this game is 900p or 1080p on X1 when the game has launched which is another sneaky move IMO

I'm with you on the pre-order nonsense, especially with this game. I picked up a copy on G2A including season pass for €40, so I was pretty happy with that purchase, knowing I'll get most of the DLC that arrives.

Cormac... wrote: »

How does any of that help fans of the series who wanted to play the game day 1?

Players wanted a game 1st, and refunds 2nd. If I had gotten this on PC I'd be disappointed and there's no way being eligible for a refund would be anything more than scant consellation.

I think it's a decent move, as it does entitle those who are SERIOUSLY unhappy to get refunds with no issues. I guess though at the same time while I like many would like in a perfect world for day one launches to be smooth, not every game is.

I guess as an avid World of Warcraft player, I've gone through launch after launch of absolute disaster for Wow expansions, where you even take time of work to be wasted by crashed servers, bugs and issues. Diablo 3 launch was a total nightmare. Sim City was another. Another in the Batman range required a quick day one patch. Most Battlefield games are a total disaster first week.

Point being that for PC Gamers, you still need to have that bit of acceptance that things dont always go smooth, but that they will get fixed ASAP. In a perfect world everything works when its released, but look this **** happens . It's not the first game to have launch issues, and it wnt be the last.

Robert ninja wrote: »

The 30fps lock, long splash screens etc exist on console... With no fix... likely ever.

Well that is the burden of a console. But with a uniform hardware environment, you would hope developers make games optimised for that hardware. Although you can see a lot of games, especially at E3, as they come closer to launch, looking less slick then their original concept demos. Indication seems to be the current gen arn't as beefy as they were made out, and the gap for PC gamers is massively ahead again.

But you'd expect for a PC release to be optimised for PC, a 30fps lock on a PC game is ridiculous (granted you can unlock it easily via the config) the general poor optimisation is frustrating, but I'm more laying it at the feet of Nvidia again. Rocksteady are a good developer, I'm sure issues will get fixed quickly, but surely now games that carry Nvidias Gameworks exclusivity need to carry a massive health warning in the PC community.

TheDoc · 23-06-2015 10:18AM

Shiminay wrote: »

PC Friends, we just had a Steam Sale, I'm sure plenty of us have plenty of games for playing till they fix it. I've got the 2 Wolfenstein games to get through - halfway through Old Blood atm and loving it, so I'm just not gonna stress about this cause it won't help.

Yeah this is it. I totally get people expecting to play without issues on a launch day, but this **** happens, and rest assured like every other instance of this happening ever, it will get sorted and fixed relatively quickly.

I'd say if you are an AMD user like me, hopefully AMD kinda knew this would happen and already had **** in the pipeline to release to customers quickly to solve issues.

Although it appears there is just as much complaining from Nvidia users, it looks like Gameworks again being a total piece of ****.

TerrorFirmer · 23-06-2015 10:29AM

I don't think it's fair to blame Nvidia either. When a game runs like a piece of **** uniformly across the entire spectrum of €99 to €999 cards on both AMD and Nvidia platforms, it's clearly a developer issue. Yes, Nvidia and AMD both often have to release drivers to address performance issues with certain releases, but rarely is the issue this bad. This isn't about fine tuning, the game is fundamentally broken at the moment.

Robert ninja · 23-06-2015 10:32AM

Shiminay wrote: »

PC Friends, we just had a Steam Sale, I'm sure plenty of us have plenty of games for playing till they fix it. I've got the 2 Wolfenstein games to get through - halfway through Old Blood atm and loving it, so I'm just not gonna stress about this cause it won't help.

Indeed. I've got over a dozen new games from the gog and steam sale, didn't spend over 15 quid. Just buzzing around the thread to see people calling 30fps action games in 2015 a design choice. The post purchase rationale is interesting.

Not really personally invested in this game anymore because as I said, nv gameworks, denuvo drm. It's too much. Cannot bring myself to support such anti consumer garbage. Oh well, the cat lady and metro ll tonight

Captain Chaos · 23-06-2015 10:34AM

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I don't think it's fair to blame Nvidia either. When a game runs like a piece of **** uniformly across the entire spectrum of €99 to €999 cards on both AMD and Nvidia platforms, it's clearly a developer issue. Yes, Nvidia and AMD both often have to release drivers to address performance issues with certain releases, but rarely is the issue this bad. This isn't about fine tuning, the game is fundamentally broken at the moment.

This exactly. I wouldn't be footing the blame or even most of it at nVidia's door. Sure it has apart yes, but ultimately it's Rocksteady that did a very poor console to PC port at the end of the day, that much is very clear at this stage and the nVidia thing didn't help matters.

Even the consoles have a 3.5Gb day one patch to sort some issues out.

TheDoc · 23-06-2015 10:37AM

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I don't think it's fair to blame Nvidia either. When a game runs like a piece of **** uniformly across the entire spectrum of €99 to €999 cards on both AMD and Nvidia platforms, it's clearly a developer issue. Yes, Nvidia and AMD both often have to release drivers to address performance issues with certain releases, but rarely is the issue this bad. This isn't about fine tuning, the game is fundamentally broken at the moment.

There is a clear pattern emerging of Gameworks libraries in games being absolute trash day one. I think that pattern is making it hard to overlook issues with those features. Witcher 3 required even users with high end Nvidia cards to disable features to get decent performance.

While I do feel developers have a certain responsibility to ensure they are adequately signing off properly the technology they allow in from third party vendors, Nvidia are clearly pitching a dud here.

The game does appear to have a memory leak which I will imagine gets sorted quickly, but again there is mass feedback of people totally disabling gameworks settings, and performance improving dramatically.

The console version remembers runs no Nvidia proprietary libraries, nor did Witcher 3, not did Project Cars, and yet all three were relatively fine and well optimised for console launch( as far as consoles go)

I don't think that pattern can really be ignored.

Zero-Cool · 23-06-2015 10:47AM

All too familiar now of going into a thread on the day of a game launch only to find people giving out about performance, patches, console vs PC and little to zero talk about the actual game. Not directing at the posters here but I miss the days a game would release and everyone would be chatting about the actual game on launch.

Captain Chaos · 23-06-2015 10:47AM

Robert ninja wrote: »

Just buzzing around the thread to see people calling 30fps action games in 2015 a design choice

For consoles yes it is. They chose 1080p at whatever settings and 30fps that was the chosen sweetspot for the PS4 at least. They could probably could have went 720p and then up to 60fps but not both as consoles are limited and PCs are not. It's like how you find the sweetspot with an average spec'ed PC and have to make do until you can get around to upgrade it. Of course a €400 console won't be playing this at 1080p and 60fps when a PC with €900 nVidia card currently can't.

Developers generally put limits on PC games if there are issues, just like this has. For the time being anyway.

TerrorFirmer · 23-06-2015 10:48AM

TheDoc wrote: »

There is a clear pattern emerging of Gameworks libraries in games being absolute trash day one. I think that pattern is making it hard to overlook issues with those features. Witcher 3 required even users with high end Nvidia cards to disable features to get decent performance.

While I do feel developers have a certain responsibility to ensure they are adequately signing off properly the technology they allow in from third party vendors, Nvidia are clearly pitching a dud here.

The game does appear to have a memory leak which I will imagine gets sorted quickly, but again there is mass feedback of people totally disabling gameworks settings, and performance improving dramatically.

The console version remembers runs no Nvidia proprietary libraries, nor did Witcher 3, not did Project Cars, and yet all three were relatively fine and well optimised for console launch( as far as consoles go)

I don't think that pattern can really be ignored.

I think you are confusing the issues though. That is entirely different. You don't want the features, you switch them off, and performance is fine.

There is nothing you can do with Arkham Knight in its current state no matter what card you have to get anything near consistent performance even if you have the fastest graphics card on the planet.

Nothing to do with Nvidia Gameworks whatsoever.

Captain Chaos · 23-06-2015 10:51AM

sheehy83 wrote: »

All too familiar now of going into a thread on the day of a game launch only to find people giving out about performance, patches, console vs PC and little to zero talk about the actual game. Not directing at the posters here but I miss the days a game would release and everyone would be chatting about the actual game on launch.

That generally happens on console only games infairness.

It's part of why I don't really do PC gaming anymore except for PC exclusives. I'm still waiting for console owners to tell what it's like till I get my hands on a copy, hopefully Wednesday night.

TheDoc · 23-06-2015 10:52AM

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I think you are confusing the issues though. That is entirely different. You don't want the features, you switch them off, and performance is fine.

There is nothing you can do with Arkham Knight in its current state no matter what card you have to get anything near consistent performance even if you have the fastest graphics card on the planet.

Nothing to do with Nvidia Gameworks whatsoever.

As I said yes there is a memory leak which is contributing. But following various threads this morning, a lot of users didn't know what Gameworks was, or it's short history, and after being advised to disable them, are playing absolutely fine without issues. A lot didnt even need to adjust FPS lock in config, it just went up.

Nvidias gameworks disables AMD from having access to those functions in the game, and therefore AMD cannot optimise effectively for their hardware, therefore, AMD can only optimise AFTER launch, which is nothing short of a joke. So that is Gameworks blatantly affecting nearly a massive portion of the gaming market, straight off the bat. (wait for it)

There is clearly multiple issues, but Gameworks is a consistent thread throughout all recent AAA releases that have had massive optimisation issues.

Also worth noting that those libraries are totally closed source, and even developers don't have access to them (according to the dude from project cards who gave an interview) and therefore they actually don't know what they are doing, and if they are impacting the game, even when turned off

VinLieger · 23-06-2015 10:53AM

lulzordan · 23-06-2015 10:53AM

ERG89 wrote:

So erm did anyone actually play the game yet..........

I played it for a while, with the latest amd drivers and the ini fix for 60fps it's pretty playable. I only get some annoying drops to 30-35 when doing some crazy grappling hooks that take me over the city. But I'm actually surprised that while driving it remains steady

Playing with a R290X,i5-4690k with everything maxed on 1080p

Speaking about the game itself, it's awesome, the batmobile is so much fun and the free flow feels very nice.

FAILSAFE 00 · 23-06-2015 10:55AM

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Thats how it starts. The 30 fps locking, the Nvidia Ballsworks, the feeling of being ripped off by dlc, that turns good gamers...... cruel.

TheDoc · 23-06-2015 10:57AM

sheehy83 wrote: »

All too familiar now of going into a thread on the day of a game launch only to find people giving out about performance, patches, console vs PC and little to zero talk about the actual game. Not directing at the posters here but I miss the days a game would release and everyone would be chatting about the actual game on launch.

In fairness I went to the Pc forum first and noticed no thread, this the only one. Might be an idea for mods to split off PC natter off the game into PC gaming forum?

Zero-Cool · 23-06-2015 11:02AM

TheDoc wrote: »

In fairness I went to the Pc forum first and noticed no thread, this the only one. Might be an idea for mods to split off PC natter off the game into PC gaming forum?

Ah no, the fact that a seperate thread would be needed (whatever the platform) for issues is just a bad reflection on devs, publishers, graphics gods, Buddha, etc.

Stone Deaf 4evr · 23-06-2015 11:21AM

VinLieger wrote: »

Lol, was listening to that at the weekend, it was a super akward pause. to be fair to phil, he came straight out and said that it wasnt acceptable, but I still dont see them implementing quality control on devs.

TheDoc · 23-06-2015 11:32AM

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

Lol, was listening to that at the weekend, it was a super akward pause. to be fair to phil, he came straight out and said that it wasnt acceptable, but I still dont see them implementing quality control on devs.

Most games, definitely the ones from big publishers, go through a pretty big QA process that is done both internally and externally. There was two QA offices for Activison and EA here in Dublin actually not so long ago.

The more worrying trend is the titles that charge for early access, which is essentially developers outsourcing QA to the customer base, and actually profiting from it. Pretty clever on their part, pretty stupid on the consumers who engage in it. (imo) It's actually hazardous in that companies can cut corners and still make large revenue from a game that might tank on eventual release, but also that they are enlisting unqualified people to essentially test their games. Pretty big example pile of early access games that essentially just drew revenue on the "promise" of an actual game coming at the end, that never materialised.

I don't ever pay for early access games, but looking at my mates who do, they don't go through any sort of stringent process other then just "play" the game, and even get the hump when data gets wiped etc.

It's like the evolving Beta sagas. I used to be in BETAs where you would actively provide feedback and data to the developers or QA leads. I remember in WoW alpha being in active conversations with Blizzard appointed staff to our groups, who gathered feedback through various means. Now beta keys get handed out to prominant streamers with the purpose of just generating hype.

Small pet hate of mine and something I no longer seek to get involved in. Early access stuff seems like its for suckers, yet thousands get involved in their droves.

FAILSAFE 00 · 23-06-2015 11:39AM

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

Lol, was listening to that at the weekend, it was a super akward pause. to be fair to phil, he came straight out and said that it wasnt acceptable, but I still dont see them implementing quality control on devs.

In fairness to Phil we are the problem. We keep pre-ordering and buying games before we even know if they work correctly. We buy seasons passes and DLC when we don't even know what the quality of the content will be.

If things will ever change its going to have to come from us.

Stone Deaf 4evr · 23-06-2015 11:49AM

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

In fairness to Phil we are the problem. We keep pre-ordering and buying games before we even know if they work correctly. We buy seasons passes and DLC when we don't even know what the quality of the content will be.

If things will ever change its going to have to come from us.

I agree 100%, I'ts just going to be an impossible mindset to try and change, and Its hard to let a new release slide for a few weeks to test the waters when everyone on your friends list is playing.

Has anyone on here made meaningful inroads into Batman yet? I'm tempted but It looks very similar to Arkham city which I enjoyed but thought wasnt as focused as Asylum.

Robert ninja · 23-06-2015 12:19PM

I'm going

sheehy83 wrote: »

All too familiar now of going into a thread on the day of a game launch only to find people giving out about performance, patches, console vs PC and little to zero talk about the actual game. Not directing at the posters here but I miss the days a game would release and everyone would be chatting about the actual game on launch.

And whose fault do you think it is that the first thing people can talk about are performance issues and unessecary platform parity and/or huge differences in platform quality?

but I miss the days a game would release and everyone would be chatting about the actual game on launch

What a load of fluff. What days were these, exactly? As far as I can tell, it depends entirely on the game and its quality as to what people talk about. When it comes to console war malarkey... that has been going on for as long as I can remember back to the NES, sega genisis, etc. Blast processing: Never forget.

Anyway, people are and will be talking about 'the game' more and more as time goes on. You're expecting way too much from an irish forum for a game that just released. It's not like everyone's completed the game yet.

Zero-Cool · 23-06-2015 12:23PM

(Liverpool accent) calm down, calm down.

I said of course it's absolutely fine to talk about about the problems when that's all there is to talk about and more that it's a pity when a game launched with no day 1 patches needed and no online that the game can be launched 'broken' and just fixed later. Ah the glorious C64 days....

Robert ninja · 23-06-2015 12:30PM

sheehy83 wrote: »

(Liverpool accent) calm down, calm down.

I said of course it's absolutely fine to talk about about the problems when that's all there is to talk about and more that it's a pity when a game launched with no day 1 patches needed and no online that the game can be launched 'broken' and just fixed later. Ah the glorious C64 days....

http://www.ccs64.com/ those days don't have to be over!

Petition for Arkham Knight on gameboy advanced, too. Exclusive DLC for it when purchased from The Square, Tallaght. :pac:

gizmo · 23-06-2015 12:47PM

TheDoc wrote: »

The more worrying trend is the titles that charge for early access, which is essentially developers outsourcing QA to the customer base, and actually profiting from it. Pretty clever on their part, pretty stupid on the consumers who engage in it. (imo) It's actually hazardous in that companies can cut corners and still make large revenue from a game that might tank on eventual release, but also that they are enlisting unqualified people to essentially test their games. Pretty big example pile of early access games that essentially just drew revenue on the "promise" of an actual game coming at the end, that never materialised.

No, it's essentially developers seeking alternate revenue streams to pay for ongoing development rather than relying on traditional publisher funding. The "profit" they're making is from advanced sales but in this case they're getting the money upfront to pay bills rather than relying on the milestone-based funding model prevalent with publisher agreements.

While there have been some examples of games put into Early Access for just the final beta or testing stages, it's pretty easy to spot them from the ones still in early or active alpha/pre-alpha development. Anyone with a publishing deal, on the other hand, shouldn't be let near the service.

FAILSAFE 00 · 23-06-2015 01:27PM

No in game mouse sensitivity setting. You have to go into the config files :eek:

Removing the logos from the start of the game can be done in the files also. What were they thinking with 1 minute of company logos.

I have managed to get a little bit more playable in the last few minutes. Getting in between 50-70 FPS with all the Nvidia Ballswork stuff switched off.

Robert ninja · 23-06-2015 02:01PM

Since I'm not buying it, I decided I might as well watch it being played by a friend on steam. Pressed the "Watch Game" button, have used it many times. It crashed his game! He thought it was just a random glitch and restarted. Nope, CTD'd on him again. I had to apologise for crashing his game remotely... I don't think he lost much progress, thankfully :pac:

So yeah word of warning, Steam Streaming CTDs for this title. At least at the time of this post.

Batman: Arkham Knight (performance issues)

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