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!! HL Maths 2015 - predictions, guesses, Q & A, discussion ...

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  • #252
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    KatieGhomie wrote: »
    Sorry to comment here as I am not a higher level maths student,just wondering will admissions be making a ordinary level paper two predictions thread..I am new to boards and don't know how to make a thread

    Looks like we have another volunteer :D

    Go to the Leaving Cert forum (where this and the OL Maths P1 thread are) and if you're on a phone/tablet click 'Post' to start a new thread. If you're on a computer, click 'New Thread'. Give it a title and a brief opening post and click 'Create'/'Submit'

    Edit: Looks like someone else already did. Here it is.


  • #253
    lala0815
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭lala0815


    Hopefully it will just as doable as paper 1 ,usually i find paper 2 to be easier,inferial statistics will most likely come up as it is new this year


  • #254
    RoRo979
    Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭RoRo979


    lala0815 wrote: »
    Hopefully it will just as doable as paper 1 ,usually i find paper 2 to be easier,inferial statistics will most likely come up as it is new this year

    i actually found p1 tough :( section A i think i got maybe 110 or 120/150 but on section B it all depends on the attempt marks, could range from 50-120/150 :)

    right so apart from the theory what is the key stuff we should know?

    stats: mean,mode,median - Interquartile range - P-values- Hypothesis testing - P-values - mean/population proportion

    prob: expected value - hmm cant even think of the rest

    co-ordinate geometry: circle in terms of gfc - circle touch x/y axis - tangent from point off circle - common tangent between 2 circlew - points of intersection - angle of lines - dividing a line into segments

    geometry: translation - proving angles are similar - cyclic quadrilatereals

    trig: cosine rule - sine rule - sine/cos waves -

    what else is the key stuff?


  • #255
    skippy1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 284 ✭✭skippy1977


    RoRo979 wrote: »
    i actually found p1 tough :( section A i think i got maybe 110 or 120/150 but on section B it all depends on the attempt marks, could range from 50-120/150 :)

    right so apart from the theory what is the key stuff we should know?

    stats: mean,mode,median - Interquartile range - P-values- Hypothesis testing - P-values - mean/population proportion

    prob: expected value - hmm cant even think of the rest

    co-ordinate geometry: circle in terms of gfc - circle touch x/y axis - tangent from point off circle - common tangent between 2 circlew - points of intersection - angle of lines - dividing a line into segments

    geometry: translation - proving angles are similar - cyclic quadrilatereals

    trig: cosine rule - sine rule - sine/cos waves -

    what else is the key stuff?

    For Probability throw in:
    Mutually Exclusive
    AND/OR events
    Independence
    Arrangements
    Combinations
    Conditional Probability
    Bernoulli Trials
    z-scores


  • #256
    Kremin
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭Kremin


    skippy1977 wrote: »
    For Probability throw in:
    Mutually Exclusive
    AND/OR events
    Independence
    Arrangements
    Combinations
    Conditional Probability
    Bernoulli Trials
    z-scores

    know how to prove if events are independant or not, i.e is P(A).P(B)=P(AnB) or P(A|B)

    i really have to revise probability lol.


  • #257
    RoRo979
    Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭RoRo979


    Kremin wrote: »
    know how to prove if events are independant or not, i.e is P(A).P(B)=P(AnB) or P(A|B)

    i really have to revise probability lol.

    same hence the list :) plan on just bricking through these topics and irish over the weekend


  • #258
    shamjam96
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭shamjam96


    Does proof by contradiction come up in this paper?


  • #259
    Kremin
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭Kremin


    shamjam96 wrote: »
    Does proof by contradiction come up in this paper?

    Proof by contradiction is in book 1, but again, they don't HAVE TO constrict book 1 material to paper 1..... i've seen proof by contradiction on q6 as the proof so yeah, it could come up


  • #260
    MF290
    Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭MF290


    Could a formal proof of any of the theorems other than 11,12 & 13 come up? (like on one of the mocks - exam craft I think?)


  • #261
    dragos
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭dragos


    I did bad in paper 1 as i wasn't expecting those stuff to come up.. What are people predicting in paper 2? i saw the predictions on this forum were very accurate. I need about 200 points to pass Higher level maths. So does anyone have any ideas what will come up? Thanks :)


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  • #262
    Troxck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭Troxck


    Does anyone have a list of Stats/Probability definitions we need to know?


  • #263
    Fiona G
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭Fiona G


    dragos wrote: »
    I did bad in paper 1 as i wasn't expecting those stuff to come up.. What are people predicting in paper 2? i saw the predictions on this forum were very accurate. I need about 200 points to pass Higher level maths. So does anyone have any ideas what will come up? Thanks :)

    Hypothesis testing will probably make an appearance. Have a look at the 2015 sample papers, they're likely to be indicative of the type of question that will come up. You can find them here - www.themathstutor.ie/official-marking-schemes.html

    Along with that I'd expect bernoulli triads in probability. Hopefully there'll be a theorem and construction too.


  • #264
    Kremin
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭Kremin


    Fiona G wrote: »
    Hypothesis testing will probably make an appearance. Have a look at the 2015 sample papers, they're likely to be indicative of the type of question that will come up. You can find them here - www.themathstutor.ie/official-marking-schemes.html

    Along with that I'd expect bernoulli triads in probability. Hopefully there'll be a theorem and construction too.

    I dont understand the new sampling stuff at all, why don't we use 1/rootn anymore? why is it 1.96sigma/rootn now? :l and wtf is p(1-p) or whatever.. oh god im so ****ed if this comes up lol.


  • #265
    dragos
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭dragos


    Thanks Fiona, They are so hard though...


  • #266
    Patsy6546
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭Patsy6546


    Does anyone have a link to all theorems we need to know?


  • #267
    Joe1212121
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Joe1212121


    Could anyone please tell me which constructions we must Learn?


  • #268
    Patsy6546
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭Patsy6546


    Do we need to be able to prove Pythagoras' theorem??


  • #269
    Kremin
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭Kremin


    Patsy6546 wrote: »
    Do we need to be able to prove Pythagoras' theorem??

    nope only 11, 12, 13


  • #270
    OMGeary
    Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭OMGeary


    Do you have to be able to derive all 24 trig formulae or what number is it up too


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  • #271
    skippy1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 284 ✭✭skippy1977


    OMGeary wrote: »
    Do you have to be able to derive all 24 trig formulae or what number is it up too

    You have to be able to derive the following 1 to 7 and 9.

    8 altogether.


  • #272
    dazzadazza
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭dazzadazza


    Can anyone tell me what the p value is in stats? Also any resources for learning about mean mode and median with relation to graphs? The books don't do a great job.


  • #273
    Patsy6546
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭Patsy6546


    Kremin wrote: »
    nope only 11, 12, 13

    Are you sure because I heard that they changed Q6 on the paper there will be no 6A or 6B and that there was more theorems on the course


  • #274
    sdio
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭sdio


    dazzadazza wrote: »
    Can anyone tell me what the p value is in stats?

    The way I understand it is that the p value is the probability of getting a result as extreme as the one which you just got.

    If it is less than 0.05, it would be very unlikely to get such a result, so the hypothesis is rejected.

    If it is more than 0.05, it wouldn't be such an unusual result, so the hypothesis is accepted.

    It is calculated by converting the result to a z score, finding probability in tables book (ignoring minus if there is one), taking away z score from 1, and doubling your answer. Draw a picture and it should make sense!


  • #275
    anera
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭anera


    Hi all,
    Anyone know how to do higher level 2014 LC paper 2 question 4 part b(i), (how to fill the table)???
    i did not understand the answer in the marking scheme, please help ASAP. thank you


  • #276
    OMGeary
    Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭OMGeary


    anera wrote: »
    Hi all,
    Anyone know how to do higher level LC paper 2 question 4 part b(i), (how to fill the table)???
    i did not understand the answer in the marking scheme, please help ASAP. thank you

    year?


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  • #277
    simplyno1
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭simplyno1


    anera wrote: »
    Hi all,
    Anyone know how to do higher level LC paper 2 question 4 part b(i), (how to fill the table)???
    i did not understand the answer in the marking scheme, please help ASAP. thank you

    You have to use the graph above. You don't sub in any values into your calculator.

    t1 = 156. look at the graph, and the first dotted line going upwards. That is t1. It hits the function line at 156 therefore t1 = 156.

    t2= 269. same again, look at graph, the 2nd dotted line hits the function line at 269.

    t3= 311. same again.. the 3rd dotted line hits the function line at 311.

    for t=4, you need to realize that the 4th dotted line hits the function line at the same point as t=2, therefore it is 269.

    t=5, you need to see the dotted line hits the line at the same point as t=1. Keep doing this for every value, even the negatives ones. The line is consistent. The dotted line only hits the line at 156, 269, 311, 0, -156, -269, -311.



    Has anyone got any speculation into the difficulty of P2? I have a feeling that paper one wasn't so bad they're going to make paper two more challenging?


  • #278
    dazzadazza
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭dazzadazza


    sdio wrote: »
    The way I understand it is that the p value is the probability of getting a result as extreme as the one which you just got.

    If it is less than 0.05, it would be very unlikely to get such a result, so the hypothesis is rejected.

    If it is more than 0.05, it wouldn't be such an unusual result, so the hypothesis is accepted.

    It is calculated by converting the result to a z score, finding probability in tables book (ignoring minus if there is one), taking away z score from 1, and doubling your answer. Draw a picture and it should make sense!
    Thanks


  • #279
    Troxck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭Troxck


    simplyno1 wrote: »
    Has anyone got any speculation into the difficulty of P2? I have a feeling that paper one wasn't so bad they're going to make paper two more challenging?

    I can't see them doing that. However it's the first year Inferential Stats is examinable along with no longer having an option on 6 so they could throw something odd in there.

    They may throw Paper 1 topics into this paper just like how they threw some Paper 2 topics into Q7 on Paper 1!


  • #280
    Magnate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Magnate


    simplyno1 wrote: »
    Has anyone got any speculation into the difficulty of P2? I have a feeling that paper one wasn't so bad they're going to make paper two more challenging?

    I'd reckon they've made both papers easier this year due to the record number of students taking higher level. Obviously not all of them are able for it, and they can't have loads failing as it must fit the bell curve. It makes more sense for them to make the exam easier instead of having to recorrect all the exams or drastically changing the marking scheme. That's just my guess anyway.


  • #281
    simplyno1
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭simplyno1


    Troxck wrote: »
    I can't see them doing that. However it's the first year Inferential Stats is examinable along with no longer having an option on 6 so they could throw something odd in there.

    They may throw Paper 1 topics into this paper just like how they threw some Paper 2 topics into Q7 on Paper 1!

    Yeah I can't wait for a nice long statistics question.
    Magnate wrote: »
    I'd reckon they've made both papers easier this year due to the record number of students taking higher level. Obviously not all of them are able for it, and they can't have loads failing as it must fit the bell curve. It makes more sense for them to make the exam easier instead of having to recorrect all the exams or drastically changing the marking scheme. That's just my guess anyway.

    Yeah that may be true, but that'd mean each year the exams will just have to keep getting easier and easier.

    If they do put a theorem on paper 2, will it cover all of the question 6? I hate doing paper 2 question 6, really don't like having to come up with proofs on the spot, so it would be great if the theorem took up that whole question.


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  • #282
    Magnate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 877 ✭✭✭Magnate


    simplyno1 wrote: »
    Yeah that may be true, but that'd mean each year the exams will just have to keep getting easier and easier.

    If they do put a theorem on paper 2, will it cover all of the question 6? I hate doing paper 2 question 6, really don't like having to come up with proofs on the spot, so it would be great if the theorem took up that whole question.

    Might be something to do with the proposed grade-band deflation :rolleyes:

    A theorem is usually 10 or 15 marks I don't remember but I don't think it's the full 25 marks. I think we could see proof by contradiction make an appearance though.


  • #283
    OMGeary
    Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭OMGeary


    A nice long Trig question would be lovely


  • #284
    is mise spartacus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭is mise spartacus


    Which would be the best mock exam to do to prepare for paper 2
    Examcraft or DEB?


  • #285
    Hulk_buster
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭Hulk_buster


    I'm not sure what the name of it is but can the question where you have to prove a number like root 3 or 2 is irrational come up on paper 2 or is it paper 1??


  • #286
    skippy1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 284 ✭✭skippy1977


    Hulk_buster wrote: »
    I'm not sure what the name of it is but can the question where you have to prove a number like root 3 or 2 is irrational come up on paper 2 or is it paper 1??

    Normally Paper 1 but you wouldn't know, it may appear on paper 2. It's a 'Proof by Contradiction'.


  • #287
    Hulk_buster
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭Hulk_buster


    I hope the paper is based on mainly trigonometry like paper 1was based mostly on differentiation/integration


  • #288
    Troxck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭Troxck


    Hulk_buster wrote: »
    I hope the paper is based on mainly trigonometry like paper 1was based mostly on differentiation/integration

    I do too but I have a feeling it will be more focussed on Probability and that part of the course...


  • #289
    Dkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Dkey


    I totaly failed paper 1 I found it impossible and probably will get around 10-15% on it or maybe even less, as English is not my native language I have problems with understanding of the questions, because of that I have to pass with at least 60% paper 2, so If anyone would be so nice and tell me all types of theorms, constructions, and other type of stuff we have to know for monday I would be very thankful. And 1 other thing, I found this syllabus on internet and there is stuff like "Definition 44. The incircle of a triangle is the circle that lies inside the
    triangle and is tangent to each side (see Figure 30). Its centre is the incentre,
    and its radius is the inradius." do we have to learn every single one of those?


  • #290
    RoRo979
    Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭RoRo979


    stats and coordinate geomrety should be fine :) whats the bets they are going to give us some mindf**k of a probability and trig question, the funny thing is that the syallabus on those 2 topics are so limited, but they always find a way to make in wild. I wonder how geometry is going to pop up, apart from proofs and definations that is. Cant imagine a 25 marker being enlargments or provve 2 traingles are congruent/similar


  • #291
    fin709
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭fin709


    RoRo979 wrote: »
    stats and coordinate geomrety should be fine :) whats the bets they are going to give us some mindf**k of a probability and trig question, the funny thing is that the syallabus on those 2 topics are so limited, but they always find a way to make in wild. I wonder how geometry is going to pop up, apart from proofs and definations that is. Cant imagine a 25 marker being enlargments or provve 2 traingles are congruent/similar

    I dont see how it could be a mindf**k probability question. Generally it will just be a bernoulli trials one or z-scores which are easy once you get your head around it


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  • #292
    Help1997
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭Help1997


    I'm really hoping for a 50 marker on inferential statistics


  • #293
    is mise spartacus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭is mise spartacus


    is mise spartacus wrote: »
    Which would be the best mock exam to do to prepare for paper 2
    Examcraft or DEB?

    Anyone? :)


  • #294
    Blue giant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭Blue giant


    is mise spartacus wrote: »
    Anyone? :)

    Well I think a theorem that's not on the course came up in the examcraft mock. The DEB mock was probably harder as well so I'd say you'd be better doing the DEB one.


  • #295
    is mise spartacus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭is mise spartacus


    This is a long shot but does anyone happen to have the 2015 DEB marking scheme ?


  • #296
    RoRo979
    Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭RoRo979


    fin709 wrote: »
    I dont see how it could be a mindf**k probability question. Generally it will just be a bernoulli trials one or z-scores which are easy once you get your head around it

    ye but sure i thought the same for trig, sine,cosine and soh cah toa is all you can really use. Go through papers and id be surprised if you can do all the questions.


  • #297
    skippy1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 284 ✭✭skippy1977


    is mise spartacus wrote: »
    Anyone? :)

    I wouldn't do either. Papers are a great way to prepare in the weeks coming up to an exam. Doing alot of Papers prepares loads of different types of questions over a period of time. But I wouldn't see the benefit of picking one Paper to do today as there would be so much stuff you would leave out.

    Depending on your text book I would go to the revision section of each Paper 2 chapter and pick out 5 or 6 questions on each. For example go to the circle questions and find the equation of a circle given:
    3 points
    2 points and the line containing the center
    2 points and a tangent to the circle at a given point etc

    I would also make sure you know your 3 Geometry Theorems, 8 Trigonometric Proofs, 22 Constructions (esp 16-22), Definitions, Types of Sample, Probability formula (for conditional, independence etc)

    Oh but if you do decide to do the DEB paper I have a marking scheme...unfortunately it's a printed copy, but if there is something in particular give me a shout I'll try and post it.....but I wouldn't do it.


  • #298
    Kremin
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭Kremin


    skippy1977 wrote: »
    I wouldn't do either. Papers are a great way to prepare in the weeks coming up to an exam. Doing alot of Papers prepares loads of different types of questions over a period of time. But I wouldn't see the benefit of picking one Paper to do today as there would be so much stuff you would leave out.

    Depending on your text book I would go to the revision section of each Paper 2 chapter and pick out 5 or 6 questions on each. For example go to the circle questions and find the equation of a circle given:
    3 points
    2 points and the line containing the center
    2 points and a tangent to the circle at a given point etc

    I would also make sure you know your 3 Geometry Theorems, 8 Trigonometric Proofs, 22 Constructions (esp 16-22), Definitions, Types of Sample, Probability formula (for conditional, independence etc)

    Oh but if you do decide to do the DEB paper I have a marking scheme...unfortunately it's a printed copy, but if there is something in particular give me a shout I'll try and post it.....but I wouldn't do it.

    How would you get the equation of a circle given 2 points and a tangent to the circle btw? I know how to do it if its a tangent from an axis but not from a line?

    Would it be correct to first put the two points into the general equation x^2+y^2+2gx+2fx+c=0 and then find the distance between (-g,-f) to the line which is the radius?


  • #299
    RoRo979
    Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭RoRo979


    Kremin wrote: »
    How would you get the equation of a circle given 2 points and a tangent to the circle btw? I know how to do it if its a tangent from an axis but not from a line?

    ive never done this question before and just writing it out of my head,

    so youll have 2 equations for the two points given.
    Find the midpoint of those 2 points and the perpindicular slope. Make that into an equation and now you have an equation for a line which contains the centre.

    sub -g,-f into that equation and you now have 3 equations for the circle.

    However this way doesnt even use the tangent so there must be an easier way.


  • #300
    skippy1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 284 ✭✭skippy1977


    Kremin wrote: »
    How would you get the equation of a circle given 2 points and a tangent to the circle btw? I know how to do it if its a tangent from an axis but not from a line?

    Would it be correct to first put the two points into the general equation x^2+y^2+2gx+2fx+c=0 and then find the distance between (-g,-f) to the line which is the radius?

    I may have phrased it badly...so here's an example if people want to have a go and i'll pop up the solution in a bit.

    Find the equation of the circle which passes through the points a(-3,-2) and b(0,-1) and where the line 2x-y+4=0 is a tangent at the point (-3,-2)


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  • #301
    RoRo979
    Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭RoRo979


    skippy1977 wrote: »
    I may have phrased it badly...so here's an example if people want to have a go and i'll pop up the solution in a bit.

    Find the equation of the circle which passes through the points a(-3,-2) and b(0,-1) and where the line 2x-y+4=0 is a tangent at the point (-3,-2)

    I think giving the point of the tangent may even be a bit generous. More likely question imo is what is the equation of the circle and where does the tangent intersect the line or something along those line.


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