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So when will there be a referendum on criminalizing meat eating?

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    #392
    Samaris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    Ah, civil debate at its finest. Say I having snarked LotR earlier, but oh well. I dont agree with your comment about women finding killing animals/ understanding killing animals harder, Silverfeather; after you've gutted your first few hundred fish and spent a few days hunting animals out of the crops, you probably are pretty capable of dealing with the whole concept. That aside, yes, some cultures treated the necessary killing of animals with great reverence, and with the emotional distance between Bessie and dinner, its not really something we cope with anymore.

    Having said that, I think we can mostly get behind ethical and decent treatment of animals. But that's a far cry from the whole idea of calling a (utterly irrelevent) referendum to ban eating meat altogether, as was the original pipe-dream notion of the thread.


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    #393
    traprunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    I haven't even had breakfast and I'm already salivating about my lunch reading this thread. Liver is on the menu!


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    #394
    1hnr79jr65
    Registered Users Posts: 916 ✭✭✭1hnr79jr65


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    This day just keeps getting better.

    There's going to be some lemon shortage come tomorrow morning.

    I would hope not :p


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    #395
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    A vegan, an athiest and a Trinity student all walk into a bar. How do you know which is which?
    Dont worry, they'll tell you.


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    #396
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    silverfeather wrote: »
    If the two of us are stranded on a desert Island with nothing to eat you had better hope I don't have a fork.


    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...-31271162.html

    Then why are you here defending yourself?

    This is not pasture farming or free range. This is torture. It's cowardly and it is all done because modern society DOES feel guilty. Why hide it all away in farms if your stomach is not too weak and squeamish to kill your own? Would people go to Tesco to slaughter their own pigs? Some perhaps but less. If you were not ashamed this factory farming would not be happening. It is the proof of your shame.

    Meat eaters who care and honor the life of the animal I can deal with but your ignorance I will not put up with. You don't deserve to eat their flesh. They should not suffer for the likes of you. You dishonor them and their lives. You won't even bear witness to their pain. You just hide it away.


    Ah yes you had better hope I don't have a fork.

    Why hide it in farms? Because we simply don't have the landmass to have herds of our own. How would i personally get a cut of meat for myself with the one cow i could have in my garden? Cut a leg off today, pour some pitch on the wound, take a shank the next? Don't be daft.
    Commercial farming, evil though you think it is, is the only practical way for people to get what they want.

    Guilt has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

    I've seen the videos, i've visited a slaughter house. I know full well what goes on in the place. I not going to make it a daily thing, as i simply don't have the time to go to the slaughter house to witness the killing, just for the sake of honor. Have you any idea just how much meat you get out of a cow? Its more than i could possibly keep refrigerated, so the idea of witnessing the killing of "my" animal is silly.

    I like my meat. Take it away from me, and i'll source it from elsewhere, like phoenix park for example.


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    #397
    the_monkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭the_monkey


    LoTR wrote: »
    I can only guess the snark in the above comments is some kind of belief I am against your referendums, I am not - but since the Irish have shown they can turn up in large numbers to vote on social issues, I wonder if this issue of criminalizing the brutality, depravity, torture, and the horrific killings of other sentient beings will also be put up for a vote.


    It will happen, but will take time, generations ahead will look back at us with disgust as we finally truly understand how sentient and intelligent these animals are.

    But it's a long time off, and problem is (and im not trolling here) it just tastes so damn good ... I love bacon, but pigs are extremely intelligent animals (some say as intelligent as a 3 yr old human).

    So if people like myself care (and I do care) but still eat meat ... we have a long way to go - but we'll get there.


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    #398
    Adamocovic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,292 ✭✭✭Adamocovic


    Going off meat might sound like a good idea but you need to be prepared. I have a sister who became a vegetarian, ended up becoming anaemic due to a sudden decrease of iron from her diet. Now she needs to take iron tablets everyday.

    The fact is we were created as meat eaters it has always been fundamental in our diet. The idea of a world were animals and humans run free in peace and harmony is a nice sentiment but unlikely one also. The human species has spent its entire lifespan building to this point of hierarchy.

    When we discuss the idea of stop eating meat then do we apply this to animals in our care? Ones in zoos, pets, wildlife centres? We were designed to eat meat, there are alternatives of course but its so written into who we are as a species that its hard to move from.

    Also if we ceased eating meet we would have to realistically look at controlling the population of other species as with less predators they would just breed and breed.

    I understand you hate people eating meat, but giving out in a condescending tone won't help you. You would get more progress with people trying to explain your few clearly and friendly without condemning someone for theirs.


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    #399
    traprunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    Adamocovic wrote: »
    Going off meat my sound like a good idea but you need to be prepared. I have a sister who became a vegetarian, ended up becoming anaemic due to a sudden decrease of iron from her diet. Now she needs to take iron tablets everyday.

    People in Cambodia suffer from lack of iron. They have a cheap but ingenious solution. The Lucky Iron Fish. http://www.bbc.com/news/health-32751132

    Another thing to be concerned about changing to a vegetarian diet is lack fo B vitamins especially B-12.


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    #400
    Adamocovic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,292 ✭✭✭Adamocovic


    traprunner wrote: »
    People in Cambodia suffer from lack of iron. They have a cheap but ingenious solution. The Lucky Iron Fish. http://www.bbc.com/news/health-32751132

    Another thing to be concerned about changing to a vegetarian diet is lack fo B vitamins especially B-12.

    I'll admit that is interesting and cool but thats aimed at areas in poverty and not much access to alternatives such as cast-iron pots for cooking, meat, certain vegetables and iron tablets, I cant imagine many people taking a lump of iron in boiling water over iron tablets from the pharmacy, but then again people suprise me sometimes :pac:


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    #401
    traprunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    Adamocovic wrote: »
    I'll admit that is interesting and cool but thats aimed at areas in poverty and not much access to alternatives such as cast-iron pots for cooking, meat, certain vegetables and iron tablets, I cant imagine many people taking a lump of iron in boiling water of iron tablets from the pharmacy, but then again people suprise me sometimes :pac:

    I'm still gob smacked at this whole thread!


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    #402
    ThinkProgress
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭ThinkProgress


    the_monkey wrote: »
    It will happen, but will take time, generations ahead will look back at us with disgust as we finally truly understand how sentient and intelligent these animals are.

    And science will continue to discover more and more about plant life on this planet, and just how alive it really is. ;)

    I wonder what animal rights fruit cakes like the OP will do when we discover that everything on this planet is alive.

    Do plants not deserve life too?

    Maybe all these deluded people defending our food's right to life, should all just become BREATHARIANS!! :D

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inedia

    Or does air and light have feelings too? lol


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    #403
    traprunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    Every time I tear a some herbs from the pot on my windowsill I hear them scream. It is heartbreaking but I need them to flavour my veal.


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    #404
    blatantrereg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭blatantrereg


    traprunner wrote: »
    Every time I tear a some herbs from the pot on my windowsill I hear them scream. It is heartbreaking but I need them to flavour my veal.
    Roald Dahl wrote a short story about that concept. Vegetarians discovered a way of recording plant's ultrasonic screams of agony and were deeply traumatised.

    He also wrote a short story about a kid who grew up sheltered from the notion of eating meat at all. Then he had some in a restaurant and found it delicious. Then he was slaughtered as longpig.

    Roald Dahl. Better at kids' books. 'My Uncle Oswald' was funny though.


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    #405
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    ThinkProgress wrote: »
    And science will continue to discover more and more about plant life on this planet, and just how alive it really is. ;)

    I wonder what animal rights fruit cakes like the OP will do when we discover that everything on this planet is alive.

    Do plants not deserve life too?

    Maybe all these deluded people defending our food's right to life, should all just become BREATHARIANS!! :D

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inedia

    Or does air and light have feelings too? lol
    Plant life is surprisingly aware. A tree not only knows when it is being attacked but will produce pheromones that can not only warn trees for miles around but call the insect or animal it needs to defend it from attack. It has been shown that plants can make room for seedlings it is related to, but won't for seedlings that it isn't related to, even if they are the same species.

    You want alien consciousness? Chances are you'll find it in a salad, being eaten alive, desperately calling for help.


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    #406
    traprunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    blatantrereg wrote: »
    Roald Dahl wrote a short story about that concept. Vegetarians discovered a way of recording plant's ultrasonic screams of agony and were deeply traumatised.

    He also wrote a story about a kid who grew up sheltered from the notion of eating meat at all. Then he had some in a restaurant and found it delicious. Then he was slaughtered as longpig.

    Roald Dahl. Better at kids' books. 'My Uncle Oswald' was funny though.

    I was a Roald Dahl fan as a kid but I don't have any recollection of those books. I must ask my niece if she has them because she reads his books now.


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    #407
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    traprunner wrote: »
    I was a Roald Dahl fan as a kid but I don't have any recollection of those books. I must ask my niece if she has them because she reads his books now.

    You won't find them in his kid's collection.

    http://www.roalddahl.com/shop/books/the-complete-short-stories-volume-one--paperback


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    #408
    traprunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    kylith wrote: »
    You won't find them in his kid's collection.

    http://www.roalddahl.com/shop/books/the-complete-short-stories-volume-one--paperback

    Thanks kylith. No wonder I don't remember them. I guess I'm going to do some buying today :D


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    #409
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    traprunner wrote: »
    Thanks kylith. No wonder I don't remember them. I guess I'm going to do some buying today :D

    I warn you; they're not actually very good.


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    #410
    blatantrereg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭blatantrereg


    traprunner wrote: »
    I was a Roald Dahl fan as a kid but I don't have any recollection of those books. I must ask my niece if she has them because she reads his books now.
    Speaking a someone who was erroneously provided with some of these story collections as a kid, I'd suggest that they aren't suitable for young kids. A bit too much sadism in them, nevermind the adult themes. Worth a read otherwise though.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_(short_story)

    The other short story was called The Sound Machine.


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    #411
    traprunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    kylith wrote: »
    I warn you; they're not actually very good.

    Sure I might find a little entertainment in a couple of them :)


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    #412
    traprunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    blatantrereg wrote: »
    Speaking a someone who was erroneously provided with some of these story collections as a kid, I'd suggest that they aren't suitable for young kids. A bit too much sadism in them, nevermind the adult themes. Worth a read otherwise though.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_(short_story)

    The other short story was called The Sound Machine.

    Thank you. Weirdly I kind of enjoyed that.


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    #413
    silverfeather
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭silverfeather


    traprunner wrote: »
    I was a Roald Dahl fan as a kid but I don't have any recollection of those books. I must ask my niece if she has them because she reads his books now.
    I read this short stories. Quite dark yet funny and silly. There was one about feeding Royal Jelly to a baby and the baby turning into a bee.


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    #414
    silverfeather
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭silverfeather


    traprunner wrote: »
    Sure I might find a little entertainment in a couple of them :)
    Entertaining but silly.


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    #415
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    traprunner wrote: »
    Every time I tear a some herbs from the pot on my windowsill I hear them scream. It is heartbreaking but I need them to flavour my veal.

    I know its the guardian but bear with me.....

    http://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,,-83446,00.html

    Aparantly vegetables feel pain OP! How dare you torture them! At least my food has a fair chance to run away!


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    #416
    traprunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    I know its the guardian but bear with me.....

    http://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,,-83446,00.html

    Aparantly vegetables feel pain OP! How dare you torture them! At least my food has a fair chance to run away!

    I knew the screams weren't in my head!


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    #417
    silverfeather
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭silverfeather


    kylith wrote: »
    Plant life is surprisingly aware. A tree not only knows when it is being attacked but will produce pheromones that can not only warn trees for miles around but call the insect or animal it needs to defend it from attack. It has been shown that plants can make room for seedlings it is related to, but won't for seedlings that it isn't related to, even if they are the same species.

    You want alien consciousness? Chances are you'll find it in a salad, being eaten alive, desperately calling for help.
    It has no nervous system it can't feel pain. Neither can most non chordates. Clams for example can't feel pain.

    People go on about how in your face vegetarians are it's quite the opposite. People boast about their lack of empathy or feeling for animals. They can't be arsed to improve conditions so they try to condition themselves to accept factory farming.


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    #418
    Fat Christy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,866 ✭✭✭Fat Christy


    Will someone please think of the plants and the vegetables??!!! If it grows, it lives. Justice for turnips!


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    #419
    Gazzmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 816 ✭✭✭Gazzmonkey


    The few vegetarians I know are sickly, pale weaklings... who would want to live like that ?

    I really want a medium to rare steak now with all this chat of tasty food :D


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    #420
    Adamocovic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,292 ✭✭✭Adamocovic


    silverfeather wrote: »
    It has no nervous system it can't feel pain. Neither can most non chordates. Clams for example can't feel pain.

    People go on about how in your face vegetarians are it's quite the opposite. People boast about their lack of empathy or feeling for animals. They can't be arsed to improve conditions so they try to condition themselves to accept factory farming.

    I wouldn't agree with that. I imagine you find most people are all for protection of animals, more probably for endangered ones living in the wild, and also call for good conditions and humane ways of killing the animals that are bred with the intention of being eaten.


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    #421
    silverfeather
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭silverfeather


    Adamocovic wrote: »
    I wouldn't agree with that. I imagine you find most people are all for protection of animals, more probably for endangered ones living in the wild, and also call for good conditions and humane ways of killing the animals that are bred with the intention of being eaten.
    I HOPE SO!:)


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