So when will there be a referendum on criminalizing meat eating?

LoTR · 23-05-2015 02:59PM

whats newxt wrote: »

I have no problem with people eating meat so long as the animals are raised and killed properly, I'm all about keeping things humane.

There is absolutely no "humane" way to kill an animal, and there is even less of a chance for an animal to be "raised properly" in the western capitalist society, which obviously is all about profit and requires slaughterhouses to operate efficiently in order to meet demands. The "humane meat" advertising plays on people's deep rooted realization that what they are purchasing is wrong, but don't want to actually commit to helping these tortured and brutalized animals (and the only "committing" needed is simply, so very simply - not buying meat.)

I know it pisses people a lot to say it, because the realization you have been deeply fooled is not good, but the "humane, organic," etc. meat is one of the most twisted perversions out there.

LoTR · 23-05-2015 03:02PM

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

in the wild when animals are killed for food their predators dont care about their pain and suffering, nature is very cruel, but thats the way it is.

Wild animals also kill each other for territory, for mates, and other reasons. When is the last time you were legally allowed to murder another person for any reason? Wild animals also sometimes eat their young or kill a competitor's young. When was the last time you killed your children, or someone else's children? That is how absurd this "well humans are animals too!" comparison sounds.

folamh · 23-05-2015 03:02PM

OP, clearly you care a lot about animals and that's very admirable. But I'm afraid you are posting on the wrong forum. Boards is full of smug, close-minded idiots who value sarcastic remarks and pandering to group consensus, not mutually respectful discussion.

LoTR · 23-05-2015 03:06PM

folamh wrote: »

OP, clearly you care a lot about animals and that's very admirable. But I'm afraid you are posting on the wrong forum. Boards is full of smug, close-minded idiots who value sarcastic remarks and pandering to group consensus, not mutually respectful discussion.

I know. But, it is one of the most active forums I have seen for Irish people, and at the end of the day, these are indeed real people behind those screens making these comments. Even if I mostly get "bbq lol" comments, I hope that at least a few will read or watch some more about this issue (apparently I can't post links yet because of new user restrictions).

Buona Fortuna · 23-05-2015 03:09PM

LoTR wrote: »

Farm animals are bread in huge numbers specifically to be tortured and brutally killed for your dinner plate. Every last sentient being has the right to live out its life in its natural settings, not in your slaughterhouses. I think it is beyond insane and sadistic to suggest that such a horrific, nightmarish system needs to be preserved so that....people can keep the jobs they currently have? That is your actual argument, that is what is going to help you sleep tonight?

Using translation software?

kumate_champ07 · 23-05-2015 03:12PM

LoTR wrote: »

Wild animals also kill each other for territory, for mates, and other reasons. When is the last time you were legally allowed to murder another person for any reason? Wild animals also sometimes eat their young or kill a competitor's young. When was the last time you killed your children, or someone else's children? That is how absurd this "well humans are animals too!" comparison sounds.

ever heard of war?

super_furry · 23-05-2015 03:12PM

I'll stop eating animals just as soon as they stop being so damned tasty.

kumate_champ07 · 23-05-2015 03:13PM

LoTR wrote: »

I know. But, it is one of the most active forums I have seen for Irish people, and at the end of the day, these are indeed real people behind those screens making these comments. Even if I mostly get "bbq lol" comments, I hope that at least a few will read or watch some more about this issue (apparently I can't post links yet because of new user restrictions).

maybe post a link to your facebook page, Im sure its full of militant vegan propaganda you can share with us

catallus · 23-05-2015 03:13PM

LoTR wrote: »

I have no idea why you think vegetarians are weak though. There are so many veterinarian athletes and healthy people who don't eat meat. Sure, if you try it but don't follow a proper diet you can encounter problems - just as you can have problems eating meat with an improper diet.

Vegetarians aside, you can't deny the fact that meat provides proteins and nutrients which are impossible to get from eating vegetables.

Now, I like my veggies as much as the next fella, but meat is important too.

DeadHand · 23-05-2015 03:15PM

LoTR wrote: »

Farm animals are bread in huge numbers specifically to be tortured and brutally killed for your dinner plate. Every last sentient being has the right to live out its life in its natural settings, not in your slaughterhouses. I think it is beyond insane and sadistic to suggest that such a horrific, nightmarish system needs to be preserved so that....people can keep the jobs they currently have? That is your actual argument, that is what is going to help you sleep tonight?

The food animals of this country have no natural setting as they are not naturally occurring.

If they were not eaten they would not exist.

galljga1 · 23-05-2015 03:16PM

Anyone else hungry?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 23-05-2015 03:16PM

catallus wrote: »

Vegetarians aside, you can't deny the fact that meat provides proteins and nutrients which are impossible to get from eating vegetables.

Now, I like my veggies as much as the next fella, but meat is important too.

Untrue, I'll armwrestle you :mad::pac:

OP, there's a humanities forum and a vegan and vegetarian forum, you might get a better discussion there. Speaking from experience, all you'll get here is Simpsons clips, "animals are made of meat lololol" "I read the back of a book about evolution one time and you're spitting in the face of your ancestors!" and loads of other really funny intelligent stuff that nobody's ever EVER said before.

galljga1 · 23-05-2015 03:18PM

DeadHand wrote: »

The food animals of this country have no natural setting as they are not naturally occurring.

If they were not eaten they would not exist.

There is a theory that if Panda was put on the menu, it would not be an endangered species.
The rarely sighted Aberdeen Angus anybody?

catallus · 23-05-2015 03:19PM

Also, vegetarians fart more, it's a fact.

Although now that I think of it, I've ate a lot of steak this week and I think it is one of my least favourite meats.

folamh · 23-05-2015 03:20PM

LoTR wrote: »

I know. But, it is one of the most active forums I have seen for Irish people, and at the end of the day, these are indeed real people behind those screens making these comments. Even if I mostly get "bbq lol" comments, I hope that at least a few will read or watch some more about this issue (apparently I can't post links yet because of new user restrictions).

I wish you luck in trying to de-convince these people of their own infallibility.

Wibbs · 23-05-2015 03:22PM

Who let the hippies in? Lock and load. In before the nonsense bro and sis science of "we're actually vegetarians by design" nonsense. If it wasn't for animal protein we'd be still swinging through the trees. And yep I can back that up with facts and figures and actual science.

I'm all for improving the living conditions of those animals we raise for food and we should be eating less meat(and stodgy carbs too while we're at it), but if you wanna go full veggie, knock yourself out, but maybe keep the tie dyed sandal wearing meat is murder guff to yourselves OK?

galljga1 · 23-05-2015 03:24PM

catallus wrote: »

Also, vegetarians fart more, it's a fact.

Although now that I think of it, I've ate a lot of steak this week and I think it is one of my least favourite meats.

Ah now, a nice ribeye? Onions? Mushrooms? Mashers? Hard to beat although lamb cooked just right is the business.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 23-05-2015 03:25PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Who let the hippies in? Lock and load. In before the nonsense bro and sis science of "we're actually vegetarians by design" nonsense. If it wasn't for animal protein we'd be still swinging through the trees. And yep I can back that up with facts and figures and actual science.

I'm all for improving the living conditions of those animals we raise for food and we should be eating less meat(and stodgy carbs too while we're at it), but if you wanna go full veggie, knock yourself out, but maybe keep the tie dyed sandal wearing meat is murder guff to yourselves OK?

So what?

galljga1 · 23-05-2015 03:26PM

folamh wrote: »

I wish you luck in trying to de-convince these people of their own infallibility.

Yeah, some of them have been known to spontaneously combust.

Wibbs · 23-05-2015 03:30PM

Boston Itchy Drug wrote: »

So what?

because you know animal proteins having been such a huge component in what made us human over the guts of 4 million years may not be something we should discard willy nilly?

triple nipple · 23-05-2015 03:32PM

LoTR wrote:

Will the Irish be the first people in the world to criminalize the brutality, depravity, torture, and the horrific killings of other sentient beings (and purchasing such things)....or does the Irish people's definition of mercy not extend to other sentient beings?

I love meat, I'd eat you if i could

can we have a referendum about that ?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 23-05-2015 03:34PM

Wibbs wrote: »

because you know animal proteins having been such a huge component in what made us human over the guts of 4 million years may not be something we should discard willy nilly?

Animal proteins got us where we are. Living lives of comfort where there's no need to eat meat, and with the unique (or as good as) ability to assess choices morally.

On an individual level there is no need, at all, ever, to eat meat. People eat meat because they want to, and because eating meat is more important to them than not eating the dead bodies of sentient creatures. And whatever, that's fine, it's not for me personally. I just wish people would own it, and not try to cop out of an ethical issue by harping on about evolution and biology.

RedemptionZ · 23-05-2015 03:39PM

Boston Itchy Drug wrote: »

Animal proteins got us where we are. Living lives of comfort where there's no need to eat meat, and with the unique (or as good as) ability to assess choices morally.

On an individual level there is no need, at all, ever, to eat meat. People eat meat because they want to, and because eating meat is more important to them than not eating the dead bodies of sentient creatures. And whatever, that's fine, it's not for me personally. I just wish people would own it, and not try to cop out of an ethical issue by harping on about evolution and biology.

So because it's relevant and indisputable it's a 'cop out'?

Also don't know what you mean by meat in this post. Meat comes from all animals. If you ate a human you'd be eating meat. If you eat a fish you'd be eating meat. Are you talking about specifically processed beef and chicken?

Xeyn · 23-05-2015 03:40PM

Your level of morality is not above others. Eating meat is not immoral to most people no matter how you dress it up. Killing animals inhumanely is immoral or killing without the intention of using it as sustenance is immoral in most minds. You 'harping' on using emotive language like 'eating the dead bodies of sentient animals' doesn't make you morally superior to anyone. If an animal is raised well and killed humanely most do not find their being used for food immoral. You may find it unethical but please spare the rest of us your sense that your opinion on the matter is fact.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 23-05-2015 03:41PM

RedemptionZ wrote: »

So because it's relevant and indisputable it's a 'cop out'?

No, because it's used as a way of completely disregarding the ethical component it's a cop out. The below paraphrasal of the debate is a cop out

"Eating animals is wrong"

"Yeah but cave men ate them so shut up!"

folamh · 23-05-2015 03:42PM

OP, I believe that a diet which incorporates animal protein is optimal for human thriving. Not certain, but fairly convinced based on empirical research I've read, and also from personal experience. It doesn't follow from this that humans should therefore eat animals. Indeed, it's a fallacious inference. The ethical case for vegetarianism is separate from the health argument. "Bivalvitarianism" seems a good compromise. A vegetarian can meet their B12 and vitamin K2 requirements from eating a couple of oysters a week, and they have "negligible" sentience. Eating a variety of fish/meats will give you nutrient diversity, but getting diversity of nutrients arguably does not justify killing animals. What do you think of bivalvitarianism?

lickme · 23-05-2015 03:42PM

Riding sheep should be legal! What do you think OP?

silverfeather · 23-05-2015 03:43PM

It will be one day. Not for many years though. I am not a dietician. But they are already growing meat in labs.

I know and have many friends who are meat eaters (I am veggie) . But I think it will come some day.

chocksaway · 23-05-2015 03:44PM

Its basic evolution. If animals didnt wanna be eaten they wouldnt taste so good.

Wibbs · 23-05-2015 03:44PM

Boston Itchy Drug wrote: »

Animal proteins got us where we are. Living lives of comfort where there's no need to eat meat, and with the unique (or as good as) ability to assess choices morally.

Sure, as humans we'll damn near eat anything and can eat pretty much anything, but will we thrive without some animal protein? In any event unless you go full vegan, you can get that from eggs, milk and the like, so you don't need to kill anything.

On an individual level there is no need, at all, ever, to eat meat.

According to you.

And whatever, that's fine, it's not for me personally. I just wish people would own it, and not try to cop out of an ethical issue by harping on about evolution and biology.

Own it? Wut? I've hunted and fished and prepared and ate the results. Does that mean according to you I "own it"? Tesco is more convenient mind you(if less tasty).

So when will there be a referendum on criminalizing meat eating?

Comments