So when will there be a referendum on criminalizing meat eating?

Saipanne

RedemptionZ wrote: »

To be honest, I'm not well versed on either crop or meat production so I couldn't say. Crops will still need to be grown as the animals you're eating had to have eaten something to grow too.

True.

Now, to cook the burger ive been thawing.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

folamh wrote: »

There's a qualitative difference between the equivalent quantity of animal protein and veggie protein, though, and differences in the way the body metabolizes it.

Good guidelines for vegans to get the most out of their diet: http://rawfoodsos.com/for-vegans/

Yup. There are an awful lot of people out there who tried veggie or vegan in their teens and replaced meat with jellytots or bread or whatever; and then spend the rest of their lives going on about how a meat free diet is not healthy and they felt AWFUL on it.

kowloon

Some people at the moment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwXD0hCvtX4

folamh

Boston Itchy Drug wrote: »

Our digestive system has adapted to be capable of an omnivorous diet. But it's also more than capable of a vegetarian diet (and not at all able for a carnivorous one).

The pervasive fallacy in nutrition (and I've encountered it in the paleosphere as well as the mainstream) is generalization. Everyone has unique physiological make-up deriving from their evolutionary heritage, which corresponds to varying dietary needs. Weston A. Price studied how different tribes and societies from around the world thrived on radically different diets. Mediterranean people thrived on high fruit and veg and minimal protein consumption, while Inuit tribes could thrive nearly exclusively on whale blubber. That said, I think that there are very basic tenets which apply universally to most humans, such as that post-agricultural foods like grains and processed sugar aren't optimal.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

folamh wrote: »

The pervasive fallacy in nutrition (and I've encountered it in the paleosphere as well as the mainstream) is generalization. Everyone has unique physiological make-up deriving from their evolutionary heritage, which corresponds to varying dietary needs. Weston A. Price studied how different tribes and societies from around the world thrived on radically different diets. Mediterranean people thrived on high fruit and veg and minimal protein consumption, while Inuit tribes could thrive nearly exclusively on whale blubber. That said, I think that there are very basic tenets which apply universally to most humans, such as that post-agricultural foods like grains and processed sugar aren't optimal.

You're right, and it's a bad habit I've fallen into from responding to the "everyone needs to eat meat" argument. Most people don't need to eat meat though, they just want to.

Free Hat

Boston Itchy Drug wrote: »

You're right, and it's a bad habit I've fallen into from responding to the "everyone needs to eat meat" argument. Most people don't need to eat meat though, they just want to.

Obviously humans and animals such as cattle and sheep have developed a symbiotic relationship of sorts. What happens to them if we stop eating meat? Extinction?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Free Hat wrote: »

Obviously humans and animals such as cattle and sheep have developed a symbiotic relationship of sorts. What happens to them if we stop eating meat? Extinction?

Pretty much I'd guess

Free Hat

Boston Itchy Drug wrote: »

Pretty much I'd guess

So the humane thing to do would be to continue eating meat?

csallmighty

What a crock of sh!te

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Free Hat wrote: »

So the humane thing to do would be to continue eating meat?

But by eating meat, you're causing a situation where those animals continue to be bred purely for slaughter. By not eating meat, some of those animals are never born and thus never slaughtered.

Free Hat

Boston Itchy Drug wrote: »

But by eating meat, you're causing a situation where those animals continue to be bred purely for slaughter. By not eating meat, some of those animals are never born and thus never slaughtered.

Wouldn't you rather exist for a short while than never at all?

MRnotlob606

I have read it's healthier to subsist on a "Paleo diet" than a modern diet. Early humans ate a lot plants and grasses and only rarely ate meat.It's only when technology developed that we expanded our diets more and incorporated meat more.

folamh

Free Hat wrote: »

Wouldn't you rather exist for a short while than never at all?

A question meriting its own thread imo.

Saipanne

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

I have read it's healthier to subsist on a "Paleo diet" than a modern diet. Early humans ate a lot plants and grasses and only rarely ate meat.It's only when technology developed that we expanded our diets more and incorporated meat more.

The paleo diet excludes most grasses, no?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Free Hat wrote: »

Wouldn't you rather exist for a short while than never at all?

Say (assuming you're male) you were presented with a nice lady and told that if you had sex with her, she'd give birth to a child. That child would have a nice wee life for itself til the age of twenty, then it would be killed and eaten. Would the humane thing to do be to conceive that child so it could have those nice twenty years, or not to conceive it?

Free Hat

Boston Itchy Drug wrote: »

Say (assuming you're male) you were presented with a nice lady and told that if you had sex with her, she'd give birth to a child. That child would have a nice wee life for itself til the age of twenty, then it would be killed and eaten. Would the humane thing to do be to conceive that child so it could have those nice twenty years, or not to conceive it?

I think I would rather live some form of life, albeit short, than never have existed at all.

We are destined to be killed by our own bodies at some point. Time is relative.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Free Hat wrote: »

I think I would rather live some form of life, albeit short, than never have existed at all.

We are destined to be killed by our own bodies at some point. Time is relative.

I think we've arrived at the agree-to-disagree point. About as much as can be expected from this, ime

MRnotlob606

Saipanne wrote: »

The paleo diet excludes most grasses, no?

No particularly true, even Neanderthals and early modern humans ate primarily plant food.

I'm not a vegetarian either btw. Just stating the facts.

folamh

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

I have read it's healthier to subsist on a "Paleo diet" than a modern diet. Early humans ate a lot plants and grasses and only rarely ate meat.It's only when technology developed that we expanded our diets more and incorporated meat more.

People have this misconception that a paleo diet is about eating huge quantities of meat every day. It's not. It's about eating natural, nutrient-rich foods that our ancestors would have thrived on. My diet consists mostly of plain old veggies and fruit! I have some protein every day. Usually two small fillets of fish. I eat eggs. I eat other meats occasionally for nutrient diversity, but I'm not proud of it from an ethical standpoint.

Another factor affecting your dietary needs is whether your ancestors evolved closed to water (in which case fish > meat).

blatantrereg

Vegetarian diet suits me better than omni diet anyway. Digestion certainly better on it than it was when I ate meat.

Arguments that meat diet is healthier fall flat since you can supplement with anything that is deficient in a vegetarian diet. I think there are three nutrients that are genuinely difficult to get enough of in a vegetarian diet - DHA, carnosine, creatine. Iron and other trace nutrients are a non-issue in a halfway decent vegetarian diet. Average protein requirements are very easy to meet also. Above average protein requirements are not problematic, but require planning and usually specialty foods, especially if restricting overall calorie intake. Vegetable protein digestibility is typically about 85%, which hardly rules out vegetable protein sources. The concept of incomplete protein is highly misleading. Most protein sources will satisfy all essential amino acids if overall protein requirements are met. Significant exception is that wheat/cereal protein is comparatively low in lysine, but not as low as people assume.

Strong evidence to suggest certain health benefits to vegetarian diet. No intrinsic benefit to omni diet except convenience and personal taste.

endacl

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

No particularly true, even Neanderthals and early modern humans ate primarily plant food.

I'm not a vegetarian either btw. Just stating the facts.

Just like any hunter gather, they ate as much meat as they could get their hands on. Supply was limited by skill and luck. Not by dietary balance.

Saipanne

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

No particularly true, even Neanderthals and early modern humans ate primarily plant food.

I'm not a vegetarian either btw. Just stating the facts.

No, I mean grasses like wheat, oats, rice, etc. I don't think they are in the paleo diet.

folamh

blatantrereg wrote: »

Vegetarian diet suits me better than omni diet anyway. Digestion certainly better on it than it was when I ate meat.

Arguments that meat diet is healthier fall flat since you can supplement with anything that is deficient in a vegetarian diet. I think there are three nutrients that are genuinely difficult to get enough of in a vegetarian diet - DHA, carnosine, creatine. Iron and other trace nutrients are a non-issue in a halfway decent vegetarian diet. Average protein requirements are very easy to meet also. Above average protein requirements are not problematic, but require planning and usually specialty foods, especially if restricting overall calorie intake. Vegetable protein digestibility is typically about 85%, which hardly rules out vegetable protein sources. The concept of incomplete protein is highly misleading. Most protein sources will satisfy all essential amino acids if overall protein requirements are met. Significant exception is that wheat/cereal protein is comparatively low in lysine, but not as low as people assume.

Strong evidence to suggest certain health benefits to vegetarian diet. No intrinsic benefit to omni diet except convenience and personal taste.

I'd submit that, since fish is easier to digest for most people than pork and red meat, your health and digestion would perhaps thrive better on a paleo-pescetarian diet than either a purely veggie diet, or a meat-heavy omnivorous diet.

Free Hat

folamh wrote: »

I'd submit that, since fish is easier to digest for most people than pork and red meat, your health and digestion would perhaps thrive better on a paleo-pescetarian diet than a purely veggie one.

Is ethically more just to eat fish as opposed to animals do you think?

LoTR

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

maybe post a link to your facebook page, Im sure its full of militant vegan propaganda you can share with us

Meat comes from animals, mate. Animals do not willingly metamorphosize into your burgers - I'm sorry if you believe this is "militant propaganda."

If slaughterhouses were made of glass windows and were located where people could see them, everyone would be a vegetarian. But because they are not, this allows people like you to turn a blind eye and go "oh whatever some conspiracy nutjobs blabbing on about, I have other things to care about." But it's not truth that is informing your views, it's the intentional disconnect between what's on your plate, and how it got there.

MRnotlob606

Saipanne wrote: »

No, I mean grasses like wheat, oats, rice, etc. I don't think they are in the paleo diet.

I'm taking about the paleolithic diet early man would've eaten. I'm not entirely sure but found this list online:
What to eat

Fruits
Vegetables
Nuts and seeds
Lean meats, especially grass-fed animals or wild game
Fish, especially those rich in omega-3 fatty acids, such as salmon, mackerel and albacore tuna
Oils from fruits and nuts, such as olive oil or walnut oil
What to avoid
Grains, such as wheat, oats and barley
Legumes, such as beans, lentils, peanuts and peas
Dairy products
Refined sugar
Salt
Potatoes
Highly processed foods in general

LoTR

catallus wrote: »

Vegetarians aside, you can't deny the fact that meat provides proteins and nutrients which are impossible to get from eating vegetables.

Now, I like my veggies as much as the next fella, but meat is important too.

Vegetarians does not equal eating vegetables. I have been a vegetarian for over 7 years and eat very few vegetables. There is an incredibly large amount of choice, and more than enough sources of proteins and nutrients. I am a living example of being vegetarian and being healthy - so are millions of others.

ThinkProgress

Wibbs wrote: »

because you know animal proteins having been such a huge component in what made us human over the guts of 4 million years may not be something we should discard willy nilly?

^^ you said willy! haha

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

LoTR wrote: »

Meat comes from animals, mate. Animals do not willingly metamorphosize into your burgers - I'm sorry if you believe this is "militant propaganda."

If slaughterhouses were made of glass windows and were located where people could see them, everyone would be a vegetarian. But because they are not, this allows people like you to turn a blind eye and go "oh whatever some conspiracy nutjobs blabbing on about, I have other things to care about." But it's not truth that is informing your views, it's the intentional disconnect between what's on your plate, and how it got there.

That's just not true. I know people who slaughter their own meat. What about the people who work in slaughterhouses, are they all vegetarian? Not everybody is just suppressing latent vegetarian guilt.

J Mysterio

What about your country OP?

Why dont you harass your own countrymen first.