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DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread

Dubgal72

Welcome to the seventh annual DCM Mentored Novices thread. My name is Dubgal (yes, really, and yes, school was tough

) and I will be accompanying you, this year's marathon novices, on your journey to *that* finish line.

Along the way you are going to find yourself doing things you would never have dreamed of. You will become an expert on pain*, and lying exhausted, dripping, in pools of sweat.**
No, no come back! You will also have lots of good stuff...we'll get to that in a bit.

*the right sort of pain
** yes, you're still in the A/R forum

HISTORY OF THIS THREAD
Thanks to the super-thread intro by last year's mentor, Ososlo (and previous mentors), my work here has largely been done

There have been 6 legs of the DCM Mentored Novices Thread starting in 2009 when Amadeus kickstarted as the first mentor. He passed the baton in 2010 to rainbow kirby who in turn passed it into the trusty hands of Raycun in 2011. 2012 saw Younganne taking the lead with a huge group of runners behind her and passed the baton to career_move who sprinted ahead like lightening to take the novices to the 2013 DCM. CM passed on to Ososlo, whose infinite care, wisdom and kicking (not really) got us over the line in one piece last year.The baton hasn’t been dropped yet and the mentors and novices haven’t stepped out of their lanes so let’s hope we continue to surge ahead in the same vein for the 7th leg for DCM 2015!

WHO IS THIS THREAD FOR?

If you are doing Dublin City Marathon for the first time this year, then this thread is especially for you. If you are a little more experienced having already done a marathon, you are also welcome to join in the fun.

WHAT HAPPENS HERE?
We have two possible training plans for you to follow and we are here to guide you in your training. You are also invited to keep track of your mileage from June until DCM on the Google Doc tracker sheet linked to at the bottom of this post.

THE TEAM
Oh, yeah...the team... (you thought I was doing this alone? :rolleyes: )
This forum encourages discussion about all aspects of your training and we are lucky to have a plethora of experienced runners and experts on running technicalities available so don’t be afraid to ask ask ask about anything you like – let's keep it running related for now

- there is no such thing as a stupid question. If I can't answer you, I know someone who can

We are here to help

We will get you over that line safely and happily...if you listen to us

Most of you will and you are the ones who will cross that line on Monday October 26th knowing that you have extracted the max from yourself to the utmost of your ability.
Some of you are going to hear things from us along the way that you don't want to hear. Sometimes you are going to do things we don't want you to do. We get it. We've been there too.
What we won't do is sugarcoat it, if you're doing something or planning something in your build up that we know through our collective experience is wrong, we'll call it. What we will do is call it in a way that is polite & constructive and offer you tried and tested alternatives...that actually work.

Still here?

SO...SHOULD YOU ATTEMPT TO RUN DCM THIS YEAR?
Marathon training is HARD. You have to be insane to even think about doing it. Covering 26.2 miles continuously, at any pace is not easy. You need to be fairly healthy so it's a good idea to get a medical check up done before starting the training. You will also need to have a reasonable level of fitness before you start the 18 week plan.

To run DCM this year, ideally you'll currently be running a few days a week at this stage, be able to comfortably run 20 miles per week by the time the plan starts on June 22nd and you will have been running at least a year. However, if you're not currently at that level, but feel you can get comfortably up to running 20 miles per week by the last week in June then this thread is for you too. You might be fit from other sports and be able to get up to speed quickly enough.
If you want to do DCM this year but you would struggle to get up to 20 miles per week comfortably by the end of June and you're not very fit, then you should strongly consider putting it off for another year. Yes you will still be able to complete a marathon in October, but as this is a running forum we want all the novices to attempt to fully run their first marathon or at least the majority of it.
Look ahead at the schedule for the 18 weeks. Have you many social events which might impinge on getting your long runs done at the weekends? It might be ok to miss one, but you really don't want to be missing more than that, so can you fit them in around your busy lifestyle? If the answer is yes and you're willing to make some sacrifices to get them done then you'll be fine.
Running a marathon is a fantastic goal to have but you must be prepared for it. Anyone can complete a marathon but not everyone can run one from start to finish at a good (it’s all relative) pace. To run a successful marathon you should be committed to your training and take it seriously whilst enjoying it. The key to this is to follow a plan and train smart.

SOME GOLDEN RULES FOR MARATHON TRAINING

Follow a plan and stick to the plan. You can use one here or any other one, but follow a plan
Don’t miss runs (especially your weekly long run which is integral to the build up to the marathon)
Don’t make up for missed training as this is a recipe for injury and/or illness
Don’t run on an injury or ignore a constant niggle and don’t run when sick and seek professional help about your problems sooner rather than later. If there is something abnormal going on with your body during training, seek professional help
Prepare and practice in every way you can so that there is very little element of surprise on the day
Run your training runs at the correct paces (more of that later)

If you want to set yourself a goal time for DCM, ensure it is a realistic and fairly conservative goal. You are entering unknown territory on your first marathon. Don't be over-ambitious. You don’t want to be saying ‘never again’ on the finish line.
Don’t rely on McMillan calculators or other calculators for determining your marathon goal. Yes it may work for a few but not for the majority

Take your training seriously and commit to it whilst enjoying it!

Special Ososlo Tip from 2014:
Set yourself a secondary goal for the year or plan something else to look forward to in the autumn. The reality is that not everyone who signs up to this thread is going to make the start line. A few will get sick, a few will get injured for whatever reason or life might just simply get in the way. Therefore, I advise everyone to think about a secondary goal this year if DCM does not happen for you this year, be it a marathon later in the year, a half marathon, a 10k, a holiday or a dirty weekend away to look forward to later in the year

A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR MENTOR....
I ran DCM last year as my first marathon. I stumbled upon this thread late enough into the schedule but immediately began to reap the benefit of the collective wisdom and camaraderie on here.
I have a background in running and decided to run the marathon in January – I needed that incentive to get me out the door on cold winter nights. It worked. Following a gradual build-up of mileage, I started a Jeff Gaudette beginners plan in June, supplemented by club sessions (I joined a club in July). I missed two of the early race series (5m and 10k) but completed the Frank Duffy 10 mile and half marathon races in August and September which allowed me to reassess my race target A and B goals.

On race day, the wheels came off around mile 15. A few things went wrong, mostly unseasonable humidity which drove me to picking discarded bottles off the road in between water stations. It wasn't pretty but I got over that line exhausted, happy and inside my C goal.
My advice to you is forget about the time goals as much as you can and enjoy the experience. Dublin crowds are seriously amazing. Now, I am a complete running junkie and as I'm not attempting another marathon until 2016, this is the next best thing. So, I am not an expert, but I know where to find one

A little more advice....

RESPECT
Over the next few months, you are going to hear the word 'respect' a lot. Respect the marathon, respect the input and respect yourself.
You are going to attempt to do all of these but, on at least one, you are going to fail. That's ok because even if you think you respect the marathon, add some knobs on for decoration, you will still come out the other end knowing the respect you had wasn't enough.
That's ok too because it's a bit like childbirth, you have to go through it to *know* it :eek:

You only get out of a marathon what you have put in...and sometimes less than that.
Anything can happen during, and in the run up to, a marathon. There will be things you can't control. Your job is to concentrate on what you can control.
You can control your training and you can control your health.

Which leads me to...

COMMITMENT TO TRAINING

Always start your runs with baby steps, give your muscles time to warm up.
Always allow a cool down period, whether that's back to baby steps or walking it out.
Read up on stretching and start to think about what's going to work for you. We'll talk more about that later but stretching after a session is very important.
Get a foam roller or tennis ball or sliotar. You're going to need it :eek:

GEAR
You will definitely need:
Runners (more later)
You will find these useful:
A watch (stopwatch will do, GPS not essential)
A t shirt that wicks away sweat
Socks designed for running

COMMITMENT TO YOURSELF
Get enough sleep. Your body can't repair, adapt and build without it.
Don't eat crap. If you do, don't eat too much of it.
Processed food = bad
Whole food = good
In between = okish
Drink lots of water. You are going to become very familiar with the various shades of urine.
We'll do the alcohol discussion later. *collective phew*
Don't hang around in wet or damp running gear. Your granny is right, you'll catch a chill.
Get shares in Epsom salts. You'll need them.
Buy an understanding family and friends. This is an essential.

TRAINING AND OVERVIEW
We're a little late starting this year but better late than never

That's not to say that late is a good thing...as mentioned above, ideally you will be building to comfortably run 20 miles per week, including one long run of at least 6-8 miles. Here is our Pre-Marathon training plan if you need one:

Jump in on the appropriate week. Alternatively, continue with your current training as you might already be running more miles than what's required for the start of our Marathon Training Plans so no need to decrease your current mileage.

Remember: Miles make champions

The more miles you put in when you're training, the less pain

you'll suffer on marathon day.

BUT

Unfortunately every year there are casualties due to injury but the best way to avoid this is to have a good running base (ideally you should have been training at shorter distances for one to two years), to build up the mileage slowly and consistently and to vary your training programme so that you have 1 or 2 hard days a week and the rest all easy.

In case you missed that...

GOLDEN RULE: KEEP THE HARD DAYS HARD AND THE EASY DAYS EASY

THE PLANS FOR 2015:
The plans we will be using are the Hal Higdon Novice 1 and for slightly more experienced runners, the 2015 Boards Plan which is based on career_move’s super plan from 2013 and some tweaking by Ososlo in 2014. You can use one of these plans or any other plan as long as it involves mostly running!

Hal Higdon Novice 1 Training Plan:
A tried and tested plan for novice marathon runners. It’s a simple plan to follow and many Boardsies have followed this plan over the years with great success. All runs in this plan are done at the same pace, which is a pace that should feel very comfortable and you should be able to chat while running (to yourself or your running buddy!). If you can’t chat while running then you’re running too fast. Slow down. If you’re not enjoying the majority of your training runs, you’re probably running them too fast. Slow down! We'll go into pacing in more detail later.

Boards 2015 Training Plan
This includes a little bit of speedwork and marathon pace running with the addition of warm up and cool down miles for the sessions and races. Everything else is pretty much the same as previous years. Many novices followed this plan with much success in previous years.

INVALUABLE TRAINING PACE GUIDE HERE
Again, pinched from Ososlo 2014

So, if you’re on board for DCM this year or just thinking about it still, please jump in and answer the following so we can get an idea of where you are with your training currently and get the chatting underway:

What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
How many days a week do you run only?
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?

AND THE BORING STUFF...
Office hours are twice a day, first thing in the morning (well, first thing after coffee) and after 8pm
If you really really need a reply outside this time it will be done...
but try to remember, life exists outside of boards during the run up to DCM. No, really, it does

Most of all remember....
We're on your side!

Welcome on board your Odyssey, Heroes of 2015. There will be blood, there will be sweat and there will be tears. Mostly mine

Let's do this :cool:

Dubgal

Finally for an index of useful posts from last year click here

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Comments

Singer

Rest for a week or two. Do some non-impact cross training (cycling, swimming, weights) if you don't feel any pain when doing them.

long_b

Looking for some advice folks, picked up my first injury.

One day after my LSR last Sunday (24 km) I started to get a pain below my knee cap. Felt a bit like a cut if that makes any sense.

I can JUST about feel it walking around but I can do a few km on it before it starts to hurt (say a 1 out of 10 pain).

Should I rest it completely or can I do a few short slow runs on it (5 km) or should I try to run it out ?

Next race is a 10K coming up in mid June

Before last week I'd been doing about 30 km a week.

Thanks in advance.

nop98

Dubgal72 wrote: »

You will have noticed that I have planted a spy in your midst and he/she will be giving me a progress report every Thursday

It is a small world, isn't it

nop98

Yes - here's the plunge!

What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?

Non-existent until about 2 years ago. I was never unfit but never really the physical sporty type. Started running with some colleagues and got the bug. Slowly graduated to the longer distances, starting with a DLR bay 10k and Wexford HM, and here I am..!

I do play another sport (at national level) but that involves cards and counting to 13 (a lot) so I don't think that counts for much in these parts!

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

About a dozen races so far, including 5 half marathons (first in April 2014).
> 5km: 22:40 (Feb 2015) - a parkrun in Marlay Park.
> 10km: 47:00 (Mar 2015) - in Phoenix Park.
> HM: 1:49:56 (Apr 2015) - epic Connemara Half and zenith of my modest running career

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)

No.

How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

Typically 3-4 runs a week (2x 4M tempo runs with colleagues, 1 longer run at the weekend (varying from 6-12M), sometimes on more session treadmilling). Only very recently started getting more disciplined to stick to sensible paces for these runs, I used to run them way too fast.

Additionally, I do one Pilates class and one circuits class every week. The latter varies from kettle-bells to boxercise to circuits and is typically very, very hard.

How many days a week do you run only?

3-4. I intend to increase this to 4-5 once this rollercoaster kicks off, quitting one of the aforementioned classes.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

Finish. I don't really care about the time - just finish with a reasonable semblance of being in control

If pressed, I would say that 4 hours would be a dream target, but I have no idea how realistic this is. Maybe 4h10 is a better target. I never ran more than HM distance, so it really is a shot in the dark.

What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?

I honestly don't know. I have looked at the boards plan a lot in the past couple of days, and it looks challenging! Not just the distances that need to be covered, but also the challenge of fitting it IRL..

Dubgal72

nop98 wrote: »

Hey DG - mind if I ask a quick question.

It seems that you intend to start the boards plan towards the end of June. What do you recommend those of us who are pretty much running the required 20 miles a week already at this stage? Is it worth the effort trying to increase the weekly mileage already, just to build more base, and then to dial back to slot in at week 1? Or to get ahead of the curve and slot in at a later stage? Or to cruise for the next couple of weeks at 20 miles a week, and start cranking it up per plan at week 1?

Hi N, so this is a commitment I take it?! You will have noticed that I have planted a spy in your midst and he/she will be giving me a progress report every Thursday

I'm going to throw this one over to Clearlier for specific advice. Your base would put you into a more advanced plan I would have thought. Have you a plan or was it the boards plan you're thinking of?

Stevo1983

New PB of 20:18 in the Run for a Life 5K today, slowly getting to that sub 20.
Bring my total for the week to 27k.

nop98

Hey DG - mind if I ask a quick question.

It seems that you intend to start the boards plan towards the end of June. What do you recommend those of us who are pretty much running the required 20 miles a week already at this stage? Is it worth the effort trying to increase the weekly mileage already, just to build more base, and then to dial back to slot in at week 1? Or to get ahead of the curve and slot in at a later stage? Or to cruise for the next couple of weeks at 20 miles a week, and start cranking it up per plan at week 1?

Dubgal72

rosie087 wrote: »

Hi All,

Long time lurker on this forum but thought this was as good a chance as any to get involved! Thanks a mil Dubgal, you've been very helpful so far .

What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?

Always been fairly active. Play a bit of hockey and have run on and off for a couple of years. Really enjoying it at the moment and running about 30km a week atm.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
5K May 2015 - 23:48
10K April 2015 - 49:47
1/2 Mar 2014 - 1:54

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
No

How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Currently run 3-4 times a week. Running twice a week with a club (8-12km) and then 10-12 km at the weekend myself and maybe a 5km thrown into the mix midweek.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
I'd be hoping for a sub four but not sure if I'm completely off the mark with that one!

What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
No idea.

Hi Rosie087 and welcome! We got your first post, thanks

You sound like everything is nicely placed for take-off on June 22. Have a read of last year's plans and a few others online. Only you can decide which one suits you and your other commitments but we will certainly be able to give you the pros and cons of many, so do ask, there is probably not a marathon plan out there that hasn't been tried by someone on A/R

Dubgal72

BrookieD wrote: »

What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports
some running years back, middle distance - grew up and was biking and running three yrs back - now back running again in the last 5 weeks.

have you taken part in and at what level?
nothing to add here :-(

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
not raced - just running 5km three times a week - down to a 24:21

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
Not very often now

How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Just running on the road at the moment - 5km three times a week and just increased to 6km today - plan to add distance weekly on Friday runs

How many days a week do you run only? Mon - Wed - Fri mornings - may sneak in a weekend run early morning

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
goal of a sub 23 mins 5km -
hit a 10k run
longer term marathon

What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51137/Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program

open to a better plan if anyone has one.

Still undecided as training is a big commitment and i need a kick in a backside from time to time.

Hi again BrookieD

well done on getting back to running in the last few weeks. Just a thought on your training runs, it sounds like you may be racing them? It's a common enough temptation when starting out but it's also the quickest way to injury and/or stagnation. Train with the end goal as a race and you will progress more effectively. Slow slow sloooow your training runs right down and build up an aerobic base. You can inject a bit of pace in a few weeks on one, then two runs a week further down the line.
I see you're still undecided about this year and that you are concerned about the commitment to training. You are absolutely right to be, marathon training - never mind the race itself! - can be a lonely journey and the first thing that needs to be in place is self-motivation. You might find that self-motivation after you have established a solid aerobic base of six to ten months just building up.
It sounds like you enjoy the 5k distance. Have you come across park runs in your area? They are a free 5k event, every Saturday at 9:30am. Runners of all ages and abilities take part and run as fast or slow as they like. I think you'd enjoy them

The speed you gain from racing a monthly one would stand to you so well if you decided to push back marathon training til 2016. Have a think anyway!

Dubgal72

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't have a log here
I have a general training log over in the fitness forum but it's pretty vague and incomplete at the minute.

The idea is to run on empty in the mornings to get my body used to that, I made that up in my head as a good idea though so I'm glad you agree it's good practice :pac:

I'll suss out the time/distance thing and let ye know.

What's the recommended percentage of weekly run as LSR? Glancing over the next few weeks, it hovers around 40% timewise, however they begin to turn from straight easy runs, to include speedwork/tempo runs etc over the coming weeks, so while the ratio of time will remain around the 40% mark, I'll be gaining more distance during the week. Does that make sense? I know why I'm trying to say, I just can't get it out!!!

Thanks missus

Sorry again for the late reply

It does make sense... so if you are running 5 hours a week, your lsr would be 2 hours? (And of course you are building/have built up sensibly to this

) 40% is at the very very upper limits of ok IMO. And the other three hours are spread over how many runs? I'm interested in the concept of lsr's including tempo at this stage...any feedback from your whip cracker on this? There is more than one way to train for a marathon so we're all ears

rosie087

Hi All,

Long time lurker on this forum but thought this was as good a chance as any to get involved! Thanks a mil Dubgal, you've been very helpful so far

.

What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?

Always been fairly active. Play a bit of hockey and have run on and off for a couple of years. Really enjoying it at the moment and running about 30km a week atm.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
5K May 2015 - 23:48
10K April 2015 - 49:47
1/2 Mar 2014 - 1:54

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
No

How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Currently run 3-4 times a week. Running twice a week with a club (8-12km) and then 10-12 km at the weekend myself and maybe a 5km thrown into the mix midweek.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
I'd be hoping for a sub four but not sure if I'm completely off the mark with that one!

What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
No idea.

BrookieD

What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports
some running years back, middle distance - grew up and was biking and running three yrs back - now back running again in the last 5 weeks.

have you taken part in and at what level?
nothing to add here :-(

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
not raced - just running 5km three times a week - down to a 24:21

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
Not very often now

How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Just running on the road at the moment - 5km three times a week and just increased to 6km today - plan to add distance weekly on Friday runs

How many days a week do you run only? Mon - Wed - Fri mornings - may sneak in a weekend run early morning

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
goal of a sub 23 mins 5km -
hit a 10k run
longer term marathon

What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51137/Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program

open to a better plan if anyone has one.

Still undecided as training is a big commitment and i need a kick in a backside from time to time.

mobfromcork

Just starting to build mine up a bit as well. Hopefully my base from earlier in the year will stand to me over the next few months. Good point about the pace on the long runs. I try to not look at the watch too often as I feel it takes away from the enjoyment of the run but maybe it would help to keep me that bit slower alright. I also tend to speed up near the end as I'm starving and just want to get home!
Had my last visit to the physio for a while (I hope) earlier this evening so lots of foam rolling and strength work for my right leg and hopefully it'll keep the knee in good shape. I'll have to look at the 30 day challenge as well.
Best of luck with your rehab.

donnacha

Good luck to all the 2015 novices! I'm really looking forward to following this thread.

I'm a 2013 DCM graduate that's hoping to make it to the start line to run my second marathon.

mobfromcork wrote: »

Before injuring my knee pre-Connemara my last two long training run times were
30km/18.5 miles in 2hr 38
32km/20 miles in 2hr 50

Sorry to hear you missed Connemara. I ended up in a similar situation so only back on the road now and will be spending May and June building the miles up again and gonna start the 30 day challenge in 2 wks. Your dream time for DCM is similar to mine so I'll be following your progress.
Only advice I'd give for now is to consider slowing down the LSRs.

chrislad

Just back from the physio. She said I should be good to go to start back training within the month, and gave me a load of stretches to do. I've to go back on Monday as she said I definitely need some sort of support on my right foot especially, as the leg was very tight.

Kennyg71

Have not done anything longer than 10k, but am signed up for
Race Series, will see how I go with them.

Will be upping Mileage as soon as Achilles sorted, getting advise
from as many sources as possible.

Thanks Again

chrislad

There's aqua jogging classes 2-3 evenings a week in the UL Arena near me, so I may look into that. I wouldn't say my patience is saintly though....

Clearlier

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Hi chrislad, I'm going to pass this one over. Anyone? I've done a bit of cycling alongside running before but not enough to comment on. Remind us again, what was the injury?
Do you stretch before or after you run? Stretching after a run is most important. And are you the proud owner of a foam roller/sliotar/tennis ball?! You're going to need something....we'll have a discussion on stretching nearer to the start of the plan in June but it's worth starting to think about it now.

Both swimming and cycling are great for keeping up cardiovascular fitness but neither is a substitute for running in the end. Cycling is much more straightforward to do so often the preferred substitute however it does put you in a position where you can develop pretty tight hip flexors so keep that area stretched if you can (look up Thomas test on youtube). Swimming is great exercise too, for anyone with a weak core/upper body it's probably the best option however skill is a significant inhibitor for many in terms of fitness. Probably a mixture of the two is best. A better option if available is aqua running. You need a running belt and (I'm told) the patience of a saint though.

chrislad

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Hi chrislad, I'm going to pass this one over. Anyone? I've done a bit of cycling alongside running before but not enough to comment on. Remind us again, what was the injury?
Do you stretch before or after you run? Stretching after a run is most important. And are you the proud owner of a foam roller/sliotar/tennis ball?! You're going to need something....we'll have a discussion on stretching nearer to the start of the plan in June but it's worth starting to think about it now.

I got a pair of insoles fitted when I got new shoes a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, the guy who made them did it wrong and made them too big which led to shin splints. I've took them out about 3 weeks before the Limerick Half, which led to me being able to run fairly comfortably but with a bit of tightness and a noticable drop in pace (down from about 5:45-5:50/km to 6:10-6:20/km).

Pain wise, I have next to none thankfully, as I've taken a good rest of about 10 days now, and I'm planning another 3-4 weeks without running to ensure that they are fully healed before I get into the 18 week training plan I have.

I do have a foam roamer. I used it after long runs in the training up the the half marathon. I am quite bad at stretching honestly, and it's something that I should properly done. I might stretch the calves sometimes if it was a tough run, but as a rule, I generally don't. But I will. Promise!

Dubgal72

Singer wrote: »

There's a very interesting series of blog posts from the Sports Surgery Clinic in Santry - google for
"sports surgery clinic" marathon

(I can't link directly - I haven't posted enough to boards yet ;( )

The first post of the 4 blog posts reccomend doing strength training in the time before the marathon training plan kicks in at the end of June. 2-3 strength sessions over the next few weeks sounds do-able - anybody else following this kind of plan right now?

Also, has anybody availed of the running clinics there? Are they worthwhile for marathon newbs?

Strength and conditioning training will help you. Clearlier linked to the 30 Day Challenge earlier in the thread and there will be a prize* for whoever completes this before June 22nd...you have 30 days and because we're feeling generous, you have two days 'off' for when you're slacking living in the real world. Novices, you have no excuse

*prize will not involve money, alcohol, mood-altering substances ...or anything really. The prize will be crossing the line in October in one piece

Windorah

chrislad wrote: »

A few questions in relation to cross training and recovery.

I'm doing cycling for the next few weeks to keep up fitness while recovering from injury. I know I normally have a bit of tightness in my quads after longs runs. Would cycling be okay, or would swimming be better?

In terms of recovery, generally just use ice packs on tender areas. Would a 10 minute ice bath be a good idea (for recovery, as it's not a good idea in general!!!!!!)

I'm seeing a physio on Thursday anyway to give my legs a quick once over to make sure all is well, so I'll be picking his/her brain also!

Hi Chrislad,

I often take a quick ice bath (not 10minutes!!) after a long run. My physio often puts me in a crypto therapy bath as well after a session. It's basically an intense version of the sea! It's extremely cold and salty!!

Dry needling is also quite good for tight muscles if your physio offers it. A foam roller does a decent job too.

As regards swimming and cycling, it depends on your injury, and tbh sometimes it's best just to rest and recover!!

[Deleted User]

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Whoopsa hi! And sorry for the delay in getting to you. Another one we should have been expecting I was sure you had a running log here, where's it gone?! Sorry to hear about your injury and it sounds like you're in good hands/being sensible with your build back to fitness. The morning runs will get easier, promise and this time of the year is perfect for early runs. Will you be doing them 'on empty'? Great practice for later in the cycle if you do. Running by time is a very useful approach, you're in good company - Sonia O'Sullivan logged all her non-session runs in minutes but as Clearlier recommends, start to keep an eye on the mileage later in the cycle...Unless you're going for a complete training by time on feet approach? There are quite a few convincing advocates for that. Let us know won't you?
Finally, keep an eye on the lsr ratio as a portion of your weekly mileage, 50% is on the high side IMO. Best of luck

I don't have a log here

I have a general training log over in the fitness forum but it's pretty vague and incomplete at the minute.

The idea is to run on empty in the mornings to get my body used to that, I made that up in my head as a good idea though so I'm glad you agree it's good practice :pac:

I'll suss out the time/distance thing and let ye know.

What's the recommended percentage of weekly run as LSR? Glancing over the next few weeks, it hovers around 40% timewise, however they begin to turn from straight easy runs, to include speedwork/tempo runs etc over the coming weeks, so while the ratio of time will remain around the 40% mark, I'll be gaining more distance during the week. Does that make sense? I know why I'm trying to say, I just can't get it out!!!

Thanks missus

This Fat Girl Runs

Singer wrote: »

There's a very interesting series of blog posts from the Sports Surgery Clinic in Santry - google for
"sports surgery clinic" marathon

(I can't link directly - I haven't posted enough to boards yet ;( )

The first post of the 4 blog posts reccomend doing strength training in the time before the marathon training plan kicks in at the end of June. 2-3 strength sessions over the next few weeks sounds do-able - anybody else following this kind of plan right now?

Also, has anybody availed of the running clinics there? Are they worthwhile for marathon newbs?

Hi Singer, I'm doing strength/weights/core training twice a week to complement my running. I actually started working out last July, to get myself reading to tackle the training this year. I find it has worked wonders for my running and it also breaks up the training week so I don't get bored.

adrian522

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Hi chrislad, I'm going to pass this one over. Anyone? I've done a bit of cycling alongside running before but not enough to comment on. Remind us again, what was the injury?
Do you stretch before or after you run? Stretching after a run is most important. And are you the proud owner of a foam roller/sliotar/tennis ball?! You're going to need something....we'll have a discussion on stretching nearer to the start of the plan in June but it's worth starting to think about it now.

I think cycling is a good cross training activity and in particular it will engage your quads in a way that running won't.

Best to keep the effort easy. Maybe cycle in a lower gear and try to keep the cadence high.

Dubgal72

FeenaM wrote: »

Hi all, new to boards and delighted to have found this thread :-)

What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?

- Running for a year now. Would also go to the gym and do lot's of Bikram yoga.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

- 5k : 22.05 (today)
- 10k : 48.49 (Great Ireland Run, April 2015)

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)

- No

How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

- I train with a club 3 days a week and then I also do my own easy runs with some gym and yoga.

How many days a week do you run only?

- 5

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

- To finish the marathon under 4 hours and to feel ok still.

What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?

- Not sure yet

Hey FeenaM, welcome and thanks, we got your first post

Well done on the 5k (was that in the Bob heffernan?) and that's a pretty respectable 10k time too. Are you doing the quality sessions with your club and will they have other marathon runners following a similar cycle? I found that an enormous help last year. Let us know if you need help choosing a programme.

Dubgal72

chrislad wrote: »

A few questions in relation to cross training and recovery.

I'm doing cycling for the next few weeks to keep up fitness while recovering from injury. I know I normally have a bit of tightness in my quads after longs runs. Would cycling be okay, or would swimming be better?

In terms of recovery, generally just use ice packs on tender areas. Would a 10 minute ice bath be a good idea (for recovery, as it's not a good idea in general!!!!!!)

I'm seeing a physio on Thursday anyway to give my legs a quick once over to make sure all is well, so I'll be picking his/her brain also!

Hi chrislad, I'm going to pass this one over. Anyone? I've done a bit of cycling alongside running before but not enough to comment on. Remind us again, what was the injury?
Do you stretch before or after you run? Stretching after a run is most important. And are you the proud owner of a foam roller/sliotar/tennis ball?! You're going to need something....we'll have a discussion on stretching nearer to the start of the plan in June but it's worth starting to think about it now.

Dubgal72

Kennyg71 wrote: »

1.What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
Running about 2 years, taken part in 4-5 10ks, have run about 30 Park Runs

2.Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

Raheny 5 Mile Jan 2014 43 Mins
Samsung Night Run 2014 55 mins
Fingal 10 k July 2014 49 mins
Great Ireland Run April 2015 53 mins

Park Run PB 22.33 5K

Jan/ Feb 2015 Winter Series Raheny Shamrocks
3 Miles 22 mins
2 Miles 13.52 mins
1 Mile 6.42 mins

3.Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
No Walk Breaks

4.How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

Sorting out Achillies Injury, but was doing 3 days 2 x 4 miles 1 x 6-8 miles
Just bought Road bike to cross train, will start Biking This week & Running next week

5.How many days a week do you run only?
3 Days normally

6.What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

Would like to finish under 4 hrs, But no huge hang up on time.

7.What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
Boards one was recommended to me, along with this Forum.

Thanks for your time, quite a job you've undertaken.

Hi kennyg, you're welcome and thank you

I/we think you'll all be worth it

I am getting a little spidey sense that there may be some shamrocks involved in your running life so I think you're in good hands, am I right?
Hopefully the Achilles plays ball over the next few months. I'm sure your physio has advised you of all the things you can do to strengthen it. I'd recommend that you start thinking now about increasing the number of days that you run but wait until you are sure that the Achilles is fully better before moving up.
Have you done anything longer than a 10k? That would be a stronger indication of how realistic your target is. The race series is an ideal sequence of events to map your progress over the next few months.

Dubgal72

Chrismc31 wrote: »

What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level? Running for 2 years started off at C25K, entered a 5K race at the end of that and hooked ever since!! Also do a body pump class once a week

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
5K – 26:53 - Mar 2014
10K – 56:25 – Aug 2013
Half Marathon – 2:10 – December 2013
Have raced a number of 10K and the Waterford Half in Dec ’13 and the Wicklow Half in Mar ’15. Planning on doing the Strawberry Half (June) and Dublin Half (September)

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
No

How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
How many days a week do you run only?
Currently run 3-4 times a week usually 2 short runs (3/4miles) on my lunch break, one midweek longer run (6/8miles) and a longer slow run at weekend (8/10miles), last long run was 12M in prep for half marathon on 7 June

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Just want to finish in a fairly respectable (for me) time – say 4:30/4:45. Mostly I just want to get to the start injury free. Tried to do the DCM last year but plagued by injury all year and didn’t make it to the start line. Serious hip\pelvis injury had me out of running for 3 months. Feeling much stronger and fitter this year.

What marathon programme are you following/intending to use? Either the Gerry Duffy Level 1 or the Hal Higdon. Both pretty similar and Gerry’s plan for half marathon has worked out well for me so I’m leaning toward thisone.

Looking forward to being a part of this journey and getting to the start (and finish) line in one piece this year 

Hi chrismc31 and welcome to the thread. Lovely to see another one hooked

Sorry to hear about your injuries over the last while. Don't be afraid to think of 2016 if anything rears its head again. A marathon training cycle is tough on even a healthy body and will expose any weakness.
Your weekly mileage looks to be in the right place so just keep ticking over between now and the end of June. Best of luck to you!

Dubgal72

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

Hey guys, quick question about sleep. I know that to run well, it's important to rest well and get enough sleep. My problem is that I rarely get good quality sleep, in fact I can't remember the last night I slept a night through or woke up feeling refreshed and energetic.

I have tried EVERYTHING to improve my sleep. Lavender oil. Cammomile tea. Warm milk. Setting a routine. Reading before bed. Not reading before bed. Going to bed early. Going to bed late. Keeping a journal before bed. Counting sheep. Counting my breaths. Counting my breaths backwards from 100. Praying. Begging. Pleading. I have tried every remedy or idea I can think of but I still find it hard to fall asleep and hard to stay asleep. I also dream very vividly so when I DO get to sleep, my brain is still awake and when I wake up I feel like I haven't slept.

My best sleep is usually in the mornings, which is unfortunate because that's when I have to get up to go to work!

I am hoping for maybe some more ideas on how to improve my sleep. So far I've been ok with it, it's been a part of life for a long time and I'm used to it so it's not very detrimental. I just don't want it to become a problem the more marathon training I take on i.e longer and longer distances.

Yours thoughts please?

(Ok, so that ended up being a not so quick question! Sorry! :P)

Lots of great advice there, hope something helps/works! I don't have trouble sleeping (well I do, my two kids make sure I don't get enough in their own sweet ways...) but one sure fire way of keeping me up way past my beauty sleep time is a laptop or iPad in bed. Ban em

Dubgal72

Deleted User wrote: »

OK feck it.

I'm in.

I'm scared. Terrified, actually, but here goes.

I was supposed to be doing Edinburgh next week but and injury meant I had to pull out, so on to Dublin

What is your athletics background? Have you run before?What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?

I used to be quite sporty as a teen, I played basketball and hockey, and did Kenpo, but nothing serious since then cardio wise. I am strong and do crossfit but running was always my weakness, so a year ago I started running and now here I am. Slow, but moving.

I was going well until I got injured and had to completely give up running for too long a while, and so I’m only back to building myself back up. I’m in week 4 of my recovery programme.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

Raced is a loose term!
I’ve run in races before 
My PBs are not only extraordinarily poor, but most likely irrelevant as I don’t think I could even hit them right now. So I’m sort of starting with a blank canvas here.

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)

Mostly not, very occasionally I do but it’s not the norm. I’d say no though as a more general answer.

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

Like I said earlier, I’m building myself back up from injury at the moment so my runs are mostly all at easy pace and on the flat, I’m currently running 3 days a week, down from 5 prior to injury. This will obviously increase. This week will see me hit approx 25km with a longest run of around 12km (though my programme is in minutes rather than distance)

I do crossfit twice a week. Ideally I would do 3 sessions a week but have been advised that it may be counterproductive to do so. Nonetheless, I LOVE crossfit and so I am happy to get to train at all. So I’ll keep this up until much much closer (i.e. until I’m told I have to stop :P).

How many days a week can you train?

I can train as many days as I need to train. I will make the time. This morning was my first 6am run, and I’m going to try and get my midweek ones in early if I can from now on. We’ll see how that goes.

Edit; to clarify; my number of days is set by the person writing my plans, I'll train whenever how ever often he tells me to.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

I want to run the race in its entirety. I don’t have a time yet, I will have a better idea by the time the marathon plan itself starts. I want to not die, I want to enjoy the experience so that I’ll do it again, but better.

What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?

I have had a programme designed for me, I’m just doing what I’m told and hoping it all falls into place.

Whoopsa hi! And sorry for the delay in getting to you. Another one we should have been expecting

I was sure you had a running log here, where's it gone?! Sorry to hear about your injury and it sounds like you're in good hands/being sensible with your build back to fitness. The morning runs will get easier, promise and this time of the year is perfect for early runs. Will you be doing them 'on empty'? Great practice for later in the cycle if you do. Running by time is a very useful approach, you're in good company - Sonia O'Sullivan logged all her non-session runs in minutes but as Clearlier recommends, start to keep an eye on the mileage later in the cycle...Unless you're going for a complete training by time on feet approach? There are quite a few convincing advocates for that. Let us know won't you?
Finally, keep an eye on the lsr ratio as a portion of your weekly mileage, 50% is on the high side IMO. Best of luck