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DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread
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Hey, I was so delighted when I came across this thread today. I am green around the ears when it comes to this marathon malarky. I think I will really benefit from your advice so cheers guys,
What is your athletics background? 3 years running on and off.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!) Raced in a good lot of local races. Most recently I have done March Cara 10 mile 1.36, April Ballyliffin 10 mile coastal challenge, half marathon also April 2.04
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
No.
How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level. No cross training hoping to start cycling. Probably average 15 - 20 miles a week atm
How many days a week do you run only? 4 for now
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
To finish alive for now
What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
I really don't know. I had been looking at hal higdons novice 2 but after coming on here I'm thinking thats probably too advanced for me ..?0 -
Hi N, so this is a commitment I take it?! You will have noticed that I have planted a spy in your midst and he/she will be giving me a progress report every Thursday
I'm going to throw this one over to Clearlier for specific advice. Your base would put you into a more advanced plan I would have thought. Have you a plan or was it the boards plan you're thinking of?
There are a couple of options I think. You could continue to progress your training adjusting it to fit in with the structure of the boards plan and follow the boards plan but adding up to two easy miles to each of the runs or you could consider another plan that's a little more demanding. I'd need to know a bit more about training history to be sure but a slightly modified version of the base plan from Pfitzinger and Douglas's book could be within reach. The book is worth a read even if you don't follow the plan.
I'd hesitate to drop the cross training for fitness purposes. They'll be invaluable for injury avoidance although practicalaties may obviously get in the way.
Will be back at a computer on Tuesday and can get into a little more detail if you like.0 -
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Hi long_b, a general rule of thumb is a niggle that goes away as the run progresses is ok but needs to be monitored. Pain that doesn't go away or indeed, increases is not ok and needs to be seen by a qualified person.
You're about to put your body through a lot of hard work over the coming months. I've said it before and I'll say it again, marathon training exposes every weakness.
Rest may sort it, but then again it may not. It might be something simple or it may be a sign of some underlying weakness or imbalance so no harm getting it checked out now, before the hard work starts. A qualified therapist with running experience would be ideal. They get it
If you're stuck for recommendations, let us know and we'll point you in the right direction. Best of luck.
Late to the party here but a big +1 to the emphasis on someone who ideally has that running experience. Just to point out as well that may be a physiotherapist or sometimes a great physical therapist or a good sports massage to work on the muscles really hands on is exactly what's needed.0 -
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I normally just carry a 500ml bottle with me. Lucozade Sport bottles are a nice comfortable size. The longest run I've been on with carrying one is about 11 miles. I will probably need to look into a better solution once I start doing 14+.
another option is to leave water on your route before you head out, if you run somewhere like the phoenix park you'll often see water bottles behind trees & in bushes once DCM training starts 0 -
That's what I used to do last year, leave bottles at 2-3 spots along the way. Other option if you run somewhere urban-ish is to plan a route by a shop and carry a couple of quid with you. That way you get an ice cold fresh one
If you don't want to use a reusable bottle, you can buy a crate of the kids 'funsize' bottles (Supervalu often have deals on 24packs), then just carry the empties to the nearest bin. Saves driving around after a 20 mile run cleaning up your litter.0 -
Hi All, I have followed this thread for the last few years and finally think that this is the year I'M going to take the plunge and train for Dublin
What is your athletics background? Have you run before?What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
Never did anything until about four years ago when I trained for the WMM, stopped running for a few months and then picked it up again in Oct 2011 and have run fairly consistently since.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
PB's are from 2013 5m August 2013 38:38, 10K May 2013 48:20 half marathon Dec 2013 1:52XX
Most recent 5m May 2015 39:41
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
No
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Usual week, Monday swim club, Tues speed session with club, Weds easy 5-6m, Thurs cycle or circuit class, Friday easy run or race depending on what is on locally, Sat swim & bike, Sun LSR ( only up to 8m at the moment following an injury in January. I also include strengthening and core work a few times each week.
How many days a week can you train?
5-6
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Dream finishing time would be 3:59:59 but I would be happy to finish in one piece and would probably be happy to make it to the start line injury free.
What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
No plan at present will look more closely at plans in the next week or so. Might try the boards one.
Thanks to Dubgal for looking after us novices, I'm looking forward to the support this thread always offers 0 -
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Hey, I was so delighted when I came across this thread today. I am green around the ears when it comes to this marathon malarky. I think I will really benefit from your advice so cheers guys,
What is your athletics background? 3 years running on and off.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!) Raced in a good lot of local races. Most recently I have done March Cara 10 mile 1.36, April Ballyliffin 10 mile coastal challenge, half marathon also April 2.04
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
No.
How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level. No cross training hoping to start cycling. Probably average 15 - 20 miles a week atm
How many days a week do you run only? 4 for now
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
To finish alive for now
What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
I really don't know. I had been looking at hal higdons novice 2 but after coming on here I'm thinking thats probably too advanced for me ..?
Hi Emsy 1, welcome to hell oops I mean the thread You look like you've done the preparatory work and yes, I'd agree, best to start off conservatively. Have a look at the Hal Higdon novice 1 plan and see what you think. If you're finding you need a bit more of a challenge further down the line, we can adjust and tweak a bit. Don't be a stranger 0 -
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Shoes. Shoes. Shoes.
I'm currently on my second set of Asics GT-2000s. I've found the shoe fit, but perhaps a bit big. I'm an over pronator, and I have a high arch (for which I'm getting insoles today).
Can you recommend any shoes as I will need some around the end of August with the projected mileage I'll be doing and I'll want to break them in before the half marathon on the 19th. I was looking at the Brooks Adrenaline.
Edit: Shoes that make me go faster without tiring would be good too 0 -
Hi,Im living in Canada and I am planning to do the Edmonton Martahon in the last week of August so hope I can join in.
What is your athletics background? Have you run before?What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
Never very sporty, was in the Army for 4 years from 2004 2008 so did a bit of running then but never any consistent training. Have been running now for the last 3 months and I just finished week 4 of the Hal Novice Program
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Mar 2006 10km 43.45 (Back when I was in Army, no where near that now)
Apr 2015 5km 24.22
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
No
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Just finished week 4 of Hal Higdon Novice program, 3 shorter runs during the week and 1 lsr at the weekend. Goto gym once a week for light weights
How many days a week can you train?
4-5
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Would like to do it in under 4 hours but at the pace I am running at the minute I dont know if it will be possible or not. Last week on my lsr I ran 12.5km at 5.50 min/km pace an I was grand. Felt as if I could have went on but didnt wanna push to much. Summer has finally arrived here and it gets pretty hot so yesterday it was 25c and I struggled to run at 6.30 min/km. The weather will be like this now for until the marathon so will take a bit of getting used to.
What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
Hal Higdon Novice
What do people do for taking water on lsr's? I ran yesterday in the heat with no water and it killed me. I knew there was a water fountain 2/3rds of the way and from about 6km to 9km I couldnt wait to get there. When I finally made it there it was out of order!!!
Hi m.j.w. and welcome. No problem at all hanging around, but you'll be that much ahead of us, we might end up learning from you
Have you tried using a water belt? I got one for last year's cycle that carried two smaller bottles. They hook on each side so you're balanced. I used one for water and the other for an electrolyte drink.
You might try carrying some money in your running shorts too.
Alternatively, some bottles are designed with running in mind and are easy to hold and swig from on the run. Best of luck in that heat. We don't get very much of that in this neck of the woods so when high and humid conditions came to us on marathon day in late October we were really taken by surprise.0 -
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Yay you're inYes - here's the plunge!
What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
Non-existent until about 2 years ago. I was never unfit but never really the physical sporty type. Started running with some colleagues and got the bug. Slowly graduated to the longer distances, starting with a DLR bay 10k and Wexford HM, and here I am..!
I do play another sport (at national level) but that involves cards and counting to 13 (a lot) so I don't think that counts for much in these parts!
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
About a dozen races so far, including 5 half marathons (first in April 2014).
> 5km: 22:40 (Feb 2015) - a parkrun in Marlay Park.
> 10km: 47:00 (Mar 2015) - in Phoenix Park.
> HM: 1:49:56 (Apr 2015) - epic Connemara Half and zenith of my modest running career
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
No.
How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Typically 3-4 runs a week (2x 4M tempo runs with colleagues, 1 longer run at the weekend (varying from 6-12M), sometimes on more session treadmilling). Only very recently started getting more disciplined to stick to sensible paces for these runs, I used to run them way too fast.
Additionally, I do one Pilates class and one circuits class every week. The latter varies from kettle-bells to boxercise to circuits and is typically very, very hard.
How many days a week do you run only?
3-4. I intend to increase this to 4-5 once this rollercoaster kicks off, quitting one of the aforementioned classes.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Finish. I don't really care about the time - just finish with a reasonable semblance of being in control If pressed, I would say that 4 hours would be a dream target, but I have no idea how realistic this is. Maybe 4h10 is a better target. I never ran more than HM distance, so it really is a shot in the dark.
What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
I honestly don't know. I have looked at the boards plan a lot in the past couple of days, and it looks challenging! Not just the distances that need to be covered, but also the challenge of fitting it IRL..
You're going well ATM but...I think you will go even better by dropping one of those tempo runs. I know you run with some speedy guys but you're going to have to dump one Replace it with an easy run until the plan starts on June 22. It really is a case of easy miles = bulk of training. So your training for the next few weeks could look like something like this (tweak where I've got the running days mixed up):
M rest
T 4-5 easy miles with 4-5x100m strides towards the end
W rest or recovery
Th lunchtime tempo
F rest or recovery
S/Sun lsr
This gives you an introduction to a traditional approach 3x key sessions a week (two pacier runs and one lsr) with the other days at strictly recovery or easy pace or indeed, rest. The lsr is also at easy pace btw.0 -
Hi Guys,
Is there a link up for the boards plan?
Only last year's for now. The 2015 version will be up before 22 June don't worry 0 -
Hi Sibeen, welcome to the thread and thank youHi All, I have followed this thread for the last few years and finally think that this is the year I'M going to take the plunge and train for Dublin
What is your athletics background? Have you run before?What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
Never did anything until about four years ago when I trained for the WMM, stopped running for a few months and then picked it up again in Oct 2011 and have run fairly consistently since.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
PB's are from 2013 5m August 2013 38:38, 10K May 2013 48:20 half marathon Dec 2013 1:52XX
Most recent 5m May 2015 39:41
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
No
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Usual week, Monday swim club, Tues speed session with club, Weds easy 5-6m, Thurs cycle or circuit class, Friday easy run or race depending on what is on locally, Sat swim & bike, Sun LSR ( only up to 8m at the moment following an injury in January. I also include strengthening and core work a few times each week.
How many days a week can you train?
5-6
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Dream finishing time would be 3:59:59 but I would be happy to finish in one piece and would probably be happy to make it to the start line injury free.
What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
No plan at present will look more closely at plans in the next week or so. Might try the boards one.
Thanks to Dubgal for looking after us novices, I'm looking forward to the support this thread always offers You look like you have a solid base and being in a club is a great support also. As you do speed work with the club already I'd say the boards plan would suit you. Let us know if you need any advice, you'll find somebody on this forum for nearly every plan 0 -
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Shoes. Shoes. Shoes.
I'm currently on my second set of Asics GT-2000s. I've found the shoe fit, but perhaps a bit big. I'm an over pronator, and I have a high arch (for which I'm getting insoles today).
Can you recommend any shoes as I will need some around the end of August with the projected mileage I'll be doing and I'll want to break them in before the half marathon on the 19th. I was looking at the Brooks Adrenaline.
Edit: Shoes that make me go faster without tiring would be good too
Hey chrislad, have a look here you might find something.
I use GT 2000s too and when marathon training I alternated two pairs: one in the exact right size for shorter and pacier work and the other in a size up for longer runs. Alternating gives your shoes a chance to recover between runs too 0 -
Yay you're in
You're going well ATM but...I think you will go even better by dropping one of those tempo runs. I know you run with some speedy guys but you're going to have to dump one Replace it with an easy run until the plan starts on June 22. It really is a case of easy miles = bulk of training. So your training for the next few weeks could look like something like this (tweak where I've got the running days mixed up):
M rest
T 4-5 easy miles with 4-5x100m strides towards the end
W rest or recovery
Th lunchtime tempo
F rest or recovery
S/Sun lsr
This gives you an introduction to a traditional approach 3x key sessions a week (two pacier runs and one lsr) with the other days at strictly recovery or easy pace or indeed, rest. The lsr is also at easy pace btw.
Hi DG - thank you for your feedback and for taking on looking after us all.
Yes, I have already been suitably berated by BG, FD, and HSR about running these tempo runs too fast. As a result, I have applied a lot more discipline about the training paces, and am running most of the runs at easy or lsr pace. I'll continue along a schedule like you suggest until the start of the plan.
Last question - as far as I understand, there's a difference between easy and LSR pace, with LSR even slower?0 -
Hi DG - thank you for your feedback and for taking on looking after us all.
Yes, I have already been suitably berated by BG, FD, and HSR about running these tempo runs too fast. As a result, I have applied a lot more discipline about the training paces, and am running most of the runs at easy or lsr pace. I'll continue along a schedule like you suggest until the start of the plan.
Last question - as far as I understand, there's a difference between easy and LSR pace, with LSR even slower?
You're welcome N, there may be times you want to take that back
Berated and rightly so
Not much difference: neither is going to be an exact pace, both should be within the same range. The place in that range on any particular day is going to depend on the purpose of the run, what you've done in the previous days, what's ahead, how you slept last night, what you've eaten and drunk in the last 24 hours weather conditions...you get the picture For both, you should be comfortably able to hold a conversation.
But...the million dollar question: have you nailed your range down yet and if so, what is it?!0 -
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You're welcome N, there may be times you want to take that back
Oh my :eek:But...the million dollar question: have you nailed your range down yet and if so, what is it?!
Well, my not overly scientific approach is: a 4h00 target time equates to 9:06 min/miles [5:40 min/km] or thereabouts. Not sure how realistic it is but it does follow the [HM PB * 2] + 20 minute formula.
I thought that would equate to something like this:
Type | Min [km] | Max [km]
(5k PB) | 7:15 [4:30] | 7:23 [4:35]
Tempo | 8:03 [5:00] | 8:19 [5:10]
Easy | 9:23 [5:50] | 9:39 [6:00]
LSR | 10:12 [6:20] | 10:28 [6:30]
I have been experimenting with the easy and LSR paces in the last couple of weeks. Maybe I'll merge the two bands..? The slow pace feels very slow, but probably the only way to get to the longer distances, in all fairness.0 -
It's all a bit 'stab in the dark' as a first time marathon pace doesn't always correlate to a recent HM prediction, hence the need for a range. I'll leave the tempo range out for now, the range and meaning of 'tempo' is a whole other discussionOh my :eek:
Well, my not overly scientific approach is: a 4h00 target time equates to 9:06 min/miles [5:40 min/km] or thereabouts. Not sure how realistic it is but it does follow the [HM PB * 2] + 20 minute formula.
I thought that would equate to something like this:
Type | Min [km] | Max [km]
(5k PB) | 7:15 [4:30] | 7:23 [4:35]
Tempo | 8:03 [5:00] | 8:19 [5:10]
Easy | 9:23 [5:50] | 9:39 [6:00]
LSR | 10:12 [6:20] | 10:28 [6:30]
I have been experimenting with the easy and LSR paces in the last couple of weeks. Maybe I'll merge the two bands..? The slow pace feels very slow, but probably the only way to get to the longer distances, in all fairness.
Just say your planned marathon pace (PMP) is 9m/m, your lsr range (for now) could be anywhere from 9.45-10.30 depending on all the conditions I mentioned above. Easy pace could be from 9.30 and slower but the important thing is that it all feels comfortable, ie your breathing is even and again, the conversation test.
Going too slow has its downfalls also (loss of form etc)....
Don't get TOO hung up on figures, get to know your body, I really recommend this. You are all going to need to tune in to your body to the nth degree and you need to be aware of what your body is telling you more than your watch. Listen to your body first, then use the watch as a guide. It is easy to let the watch do 'all the work' but if you let the watch be a secondary back up, you will be a better runner. Promise 0 -
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Hey chrislad, have a look here you might find something.
I use GT 2000s too and when marathon training I alternated two pairs: one in the exact right size for shorter and pacier work and the other in a size up for longer runs. Alternating gives your shoes a chance to recover between runs too
After going to my physio for insoles last night, she said the Asics weren't suited to me, as I was given a bigger size as my feet were too wide, so looks like I'm going to have to go shoe shopping earlier than anticipated!0 -
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