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DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread
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Thanks for that Dubgal.
I'll start balancing out my mileage a bit by adding an extra day now and shortening my long weekend run a bit. I'll aim to add a fifth day before the plan starts without adding too much overall mileage too soon.
I also need to slow down a bit on my lsr pace. Looking back over my paces for my most recent longer runs, they have been a bit faster than what I expect would be recommended for me for my long runs (16m@9:35, 15m@9:32, 14m@9:08, 14m@8:49, 15m@9:17, 14m@8:56, 14m@8:57). I've suffered a little bit since I started running with shin splints and some knee problems - nothing that didn't correct itself after a week or so of rest, but I'd definitely like to avoid that for the next 23 weeks or so.
No prob
have a look here for a guide to paces and see how they stack up alongside your current paces. You really need to be comfortable and if running with somebody be able to hold a conversation with no difficulty. If you're running on your own you may have to start singing to yourself...I find The Grand Old Duke of York is a good un 
You'll find the pavement ahead sort of clears miraculously
It's important also to keep good running form when running at a slower pace, it's easy to slacken and slump a bit which is also a sure fire road to injury. I'll root out some links I found useful and post them later.0 -
I wondered about this too.
The first week of the HH Novice 2 has:
If people are already comfortably doing more than this, should they reset to the plan at week 1 or go into a holding pattern at a week that matches their current running or gradually change to merge with the plan later on?
Definitely don't decrease your mileage It depends how long you'd have to 'hold'. If you have to hold for too long, it may not be the plan for you. What stage would your training and the marathon plan merge? 0 -
I really wasnt prepared for the DM14. The old cliche "fail to prepare, prepare to fail" is definitely true when it comes to the marathon. I was probably a bit unmotivated and I skipped a lot of the midweek runs. I thought that once I did the long runs I would be fine, oh how wrong was I.
Also I didnt get a wink of sleep the night before and the unseasonal hot day didnt help. I felt uncomfortable from the get go! All excuses but the main reason was the lack of training.
In turn, it was a lesson learned and it has given me great respect for the distance, its a huge step up from a half marathon & I feel I know just how much hard work and commitment it takes to be able to run a marathon.
As regards to programs, I base it on Hal Higdon, that said, to my detriment I didnt stick to it
.
Here's hoping I can keep the motivation up over the next 5 months!!
Ah...reminds me of a post earlier 'a wise man learns from his mistake...a wiser man learns from the mistakes of others...' Y'all listening novices??!! 0 -
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Thank you dubgal and thank you for efforts here now and for the future, appreciate any feedback and advice you have.
I just joined up with club in the last month and the same with a running group so I can do some of the long runs in a group. My longest solo runs to date outside of a race have been 10 miles so I have a bit to step up to get used to it physically and psychologically but I will for sure do some slow ones on my own.
The book is good so far, just getting through the initial chapters but I like his approach with things. Feel I don't have to be aiming for Rio to follow his stuff. I've followed him on twitter for a year or so and he's posted some good Q&A stuff there and answered a few queries I had when I started using gels.
That all sounds like progress in the right direction It's also important to feel comfortable with the plan you'll follow. Only you know how it will fit in with your lifestyle, commitments etc. 0 -
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What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
Running on and off for about 4 years but have never had a consistent year of running. Played hurling all my life up to the age of 32, i'm 38 now.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
5K 2014 - 28Mins
1/2 2012 - 2hr 1Min (Still kills me)
1/2 2013 - 2 Hr 8 Mins
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
No
How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Trying to run 3 times a week. Currently running 4 miles each run. I am finding it hard to fit in more as i do 12 hour shifts. Week 1 is 3 days and week 2 is 4 days. Also studying for a masters. I know i am taking a lot on doing this but feel i need to in order to get my head in the right place and destress if that makes sense.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Sub 4 hour would be fantastic but just being able to enjoy it and finish with a smile would be great.
What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
No idea thats why i am here
Hi Irishder, welcome to DCM 2015 Well done on four years of running but tell me more about what you mean by lack of consistency? Six months on...six months off or...? Your mileage at the mo is quite low which is not the end of the world right now but it also sounds like you're going to struggle to build up a solid base, would you agree? I agree with you, running is a great destresser but committing to run a marathon brings its own set of stresses and you may not have factored that in. Something to think about anyway! 0 -
What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
Just running, which I've been doing since July 2013. I'm 38, overweight (obviously :rolleyes:) but healthy. Everything is normal, blood, cholesterol, thyroid etc. Resting heart rate of 64bpm (does that even matter?!).
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
I've run 11 races so far, with two more planned in the next few weeks (7k on May 24th and 10k on June 1st). Race PB's are:
5km - 39:46 on 14th March, 2015 (Paddy's Festival Race)
5m - 1:08:17 on 25th Jan 2015 (Raheny Road Race)
10km - 1:37:29 on 2nd June 2014 (Women's Mini-Marathon)
I realise these might look like terrible PB's, but they are still my achievements and I'm really proud of them! I am running the WMM again this June and hoping to really smash my time considering all the training I've been doing lately!
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
Only during hard runs, or when I'm increasing my LSR distance.
How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
I train 5 days a week.
Monday: Workout with my PT, legs + weights/core/HIIT
Wednesday: Short, hard run (currently 4 miles + 1 mile cool down)
Thursday: Longer, easy run (currently 6 miles + 1 mile cool down)
Saturday: Workout with my PT, upper body + weights/arms/core
Sunday: Long, slow run (upping to 7 miles this Sunday, no idea how much cool down I'll need!)
I've been going to my trainer since July 2014. Everything he has me do is to help improve my running. Lots of weight work on my legs and posterior chain to tone my running muscles, lots of pilates to strengthen my core. Lots of arm and upper body work to improve the tone of my arms and upper body. HIIT on the spinning bike for the cardio.
How many days a week do you run only?
Three. I can't see myself doing more than that considering my two workout days. It only gives me two days rest and I really need those!
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
My goal is to finish. Ideally I'd love to finish in 5 to 5 and a half hours but I do understand I need to be realistic about it and be happy even if it takes me longer! I see everyone else here is planning a much faster marathon, so I have to be honest and admit I feel really out of place here.
What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
I have a marathon coach who is writing my training plan. I started in April at about 10 miles per week and am currently at 17 miles per week. She is building my upcoming races into my training plan. I am running a 7k on 25th May, the WMM on 1st June, the Irish Runner 5 mile on 27th June, Rock 'n Roll half on 2nd August and the Frank Duffy 10 m on August 22nd. The half marathon in August will be a big determining factor in my marathon strategy, it will tell me everything about how I'm doing with my training and where I'm lacking. I chose the RnR because it will give me more time to plan/train/change my strategy for the marathon.
Is that enough info from me? 0 -
We do one session a week. 10 minute warm up, 8 reps on one minute full tilt/two minutes regular pace.
I run with a guy from work who's quicker than me so the other two sessions have been me running at a hard pace (not enough breath to talk comfortably)
My LSRs have been, I think, all wrong.
I was running them pretty much as fast as I could (my PB is from a training run).
Managed the HM distance about three times (1:59, 2:07) which is my race pace. Crazy I know but it seemed like a good idea at the time.
Ended up trying to improve on that pace in the Limerick HM and blew up at 13KM.
My last LSR was 14 miles at a much more comfortable 2:25 or so.
I could probably get out for two runs at the weekend.
Only decided to commit to the full when you started the thread !
Will do
Can i just say thanks in advance for all of your advice. I really didn't think we'd be getting one-on-one attention.
I've 3 races booked. A 10 K in Newbridge mid June, Portarlington half in July and the Dublin race series half. Is that too much ? (Please say it's OK - I need to get my HM confidence back!)
Thanks for the info long_b and you're most welcome. You'll all get one on one as far as we can. We're not here to coach you, *just* give you the benefit of our collective experience
It's good to see that you're becoming aware of how to train and get the most from yourself. Remember back on the first post...the golden rule...keep the hard days hard and the easy days easy......you're going to hear that again and again
Have a look at the pacing guide here and you should be able to nail down a range for lsr NOT race pace :eek:
You might have to ditch the faster guy too if he's stopping you from keeping the easy days easy. Rest and recovery runs are just as important as your active days. They are when your body makes the necessary adaptations for improvements and repair. Conversation pace only...
My opinion on the two HMs would be to swap the earlier one for a 10 mile race, unless you think you can commit to keeping it as a training run. That takes discipline so think about it...
Great to see you'll be able to fit an extra run in!
Anyone want to jump in here?0 -
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Thanks for the info long_b and you're most welcome. You'll all get one on one as far as we can. We're not here to coach you, *just* give you the benefit of our collective experience
It's good to see that you're becoming aware of how to train and get the most from yourself. Remember back on the first post...the golden rule...keep the hard days hard and the easy days easy......you're going to hear that again and again
Have a look at the pacing guide here and you should be able to nail down a range for lsr NOT race pace :eek:
You might have to ditch the faster guy too if he's stopping you from keeping the easy days easy. Rest and recovery runs are just as important as your active days. They are when your body makes the necessary adaptations for improvements and repair. Conversation pace only...
My opinion on the two HMs would be to swap the earlier one for a 10 mile race, unless you think you can commit to keeping it as a training run. That takes discipline so think about it...
Great to see you'll be able to fit an extra run in!
Anyone want to jump in here?
I would second what DG is saying re the two half marathons, concentrate on the bigger goal here which is a good marathon, half's are ten a penny and you can run them to your hearts content when all this is over. Swap one for a 10 miler as dubgal has said, you won't regret it where you might regret running two :-) good luck with your training!0 -
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What is your athletics background? Have you run before?What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
Have a love/hate relationship with running....run for 2months, stop for 6months etc Started light jogging in March, no other sports participated in.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Never done a proper race before. Have trained for a 10km but tore my calf before the race
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
Nope
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Currently running a 9km route four times weekly in average of 46minutes. No gym work or cross training as of yet, but do plan to join a gym ASAP.
How many days a week can you train?
At least 5days.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
I just want to complete it, prove to myself I can do it, I'll worry about times at future marathons.
What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
Not following any plan yet, currently just increasing my mileage by 10% each week. Open to suggestions!0 -
No prob have a look here for a guide to paces and see how they stack up alongside your current paces. You really need to be comfortable and if running with somebody be able to hold a conversation with no difficulty. If you're running on your own you may have to start singing to yourself...I find The Grand Old Duke of York is a good un
You'll find the pavement ahead sort of clears miraculously
It's important also to keep good running form when running at a slower pace, it's easy to slacken and slump a bit which is also a sure fire road to injury. I'll root out some links I found useful and post them later.
Thanks Dubgal.
I find judging my 'comfortable' pace to be like finding the holy grail.
Example: During the week I went out for a deliberately easy run at a conversational pace (I had a few little out load chats to myself to test this - I worried a bit that people might think I was a bit mad, but tbh its hard to distinguish the demented from people talking into those bluetooth thingies). It ended up at 8 miles @ 9:21, so I guess that's a comfortable pace for me for 8 miles.
BUT, the first 5 miles were a bit more more comfortable than the last 3. And, I'm fairly sure that if I was to have run for another 3 miles, they might have been less comfortable again.
I'm guessing that when people say to run at a comfortable pace that its a comfortable pace for that run and, as runs get gradually longer week by week, so does fitness, so a comfortable pace at, say, eight miles at the start of a plan, should end up being around as comfortable at the same pace mid way through a plan when the run is up to 14 miles?
It's all a bit of a mystery to me.
Same with trying to pick a realistic planned marathon time - having never run a marathon. The most I've run is 16 miles so I guess I could say it's that, plus however long it takes to crawl 10.2 miles. I heard formulas like your half marathon time * 2 + 20 minutes or whatever algorithm Mcmillan uses.
It's really hard to come up with a number without the benefit of training for a marathon, but the plans tell you to do some runs at a race pace (that can only be very vague, since I haven't run one).
Anyhoo. That's a bit of a rant - typing it helps me get it organised in my own head at least. Probably over thinking the whole thing - I should just shut up and run. 0 -
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What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
I started running 3 years ago to keep fit after my long drawn out
soccer career eventually ended(age 42 :eek:)
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
My PBs- St Coca's 5k June 2014 19:43
- Ferrycarrig 5m Jan 2015 33:35
- K Club 10k April 2014 40:42
- Bohermeen Half March 2015 1:32:00
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
No
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
I am currently following a 10k plan that ends with my goal race
on the 11th of july. The plan is a P&D plan which peaks at 42 miles,
the goal is a sub40 10k.
By the end of the 10k training i should have covered 900 miles for
the year, hopefully this will be a good base for marathon training.
How many days a week can you train?
5 days
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?- A goal is 3:20:00
- B goal is sub 3:30
What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
P&D 12 week plan which peaks at 55 mile per week.
Thanks Dubgal for taking this on.0 -
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Hi there Singer. Great to see you here and you're welcome...and thank you
You're showing very steady and consistent improvements over the last 12+ months. Cross training seems to have been working for you so don't be in a hurry to drop it too suddenly. Perhaps nearer October you may need to focus on running but for now, if it ain't broke....
The race series is a great way to plot your progression and an opportunity to review your training and targets along the way.
Could you post a sample week of running, I'm a little bit concerned at the 16 mile lsr; as a proportion of your weekly mileage it looks quite high and can lead you down the road to injury quite quickly...and I know that's the last thing you want! Are you following any strength and conditioning plan or supplementary routine at the moment?
Thanks for the reply
I'll do at least one gym session during the week for the next while so.
Below is my last 3 weeks running. I'll do a long run tomorrow (probably 14 miles).
Date|Distance|Pace|Notes
April 18th | 12 miles | 8'46 | First long run in a month.
April 20th | 6.75 miles | 8'24
23rd April | 10.2 miles | 9'26 | A not great run home from work (City Centre to Swords, mostly uphill, was tired)
28th April | 13.2 miles | 8'52 | A half-marathon PB according to the Nike App
30th April | 6.2 miles | 7'58 |
1st May | 10 miles | 8'35 | A good run home from work! Ate later at lunch and had plenty to drink during the day.
4th May | 7.5 miles | 8'35
5th May | 14.1 | 9'09
7th May | 3.1 miles | 7'27 | Treadmill in gym, alternating between 8 minutes per mile and 6'43 minutes per mile
9th May | 7.3 miles | 8'40 | Run in hilly local park (about 500 ft climb in total)
10th May | 16.6 | 8'56 | Longest training run yet.
11th May | 3.5 miles | 8'51 | Recovery run. Very difficult to slow down! It was raining, that didn't help.
13th May | 6.25 miles | 7'44 | 10k PB according to Nike App
16th May | 6.8 miles | 8'49 | Run in hilly local park (about 650 ft climb in total)
Prior to this I had some sort of injury on my left foot. I got it just before the Patrick's Day 5k, and raced on it. I was happy with my time etc. but could barely walk for the next few days. I didn't go to a physio - Dr. Google reckoned it could have been a stress fracture on my fifth metatarsal, but it was probably some sort of strain. It was very sore to walk on for a week or two. Either way it needed to be rested, so I took it easy for a month, and it's fine now.0 -
Hi novices and welcome those of you who have posted in the last 24 hours! wifi is a bit temperamental this evening so will try again tomorrow evening on the PC.
Good luck to anyone racing tomorrow and if doing a lsr....keep it long and keep it sloooooooow. Don't forget to check that pace guide if in doubt. If you haven't got a recent race to guide you, just keep it at a pace that you can comfortably talk. Watch the form, run tall
If any boardsies want to jump in, feel free. Oiche mhaith 0 -
Hi chrislad. Looks like a healthy diet to me. You can get a few more vits in by adding berries etc to the porridge. If you're generally healthy you shouldn't *need* supplements but iron is one to watch for runners, male and female. Personally, I try keep the food real and as unprocessed as possible (wine isn't processed, right?!). Have a look on this thread for some ideas. There are similar threads, if anyone fancies digging for them and linking here feel free. Now I really am off to me leabaNutritionally speaking, is there any diets/supplements that you'd recommend?
Currently, and this is before I start proper training, I follow something quite close to this
Breakfast - Porridge, Protein Shake
Snacks - Apple/Banana
Lunch - Wholemeal wrap with 150g chicken
Dinner - Chicken or Mince w/ wholemeal pasta, brocolli
I normally have a protein shake in the evening just after a training run.
I've starting taking a multivitamin to help also. What changes should I make to ensure I'm fueled properly and to aid recovery? 0 -
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Hi chrislad. Looks like a healthy diet to me. You can get a few more vits in by adding berries etc to the porridge. If you're generally healthy you shouldn't *need* supplements but iron is one to watch for runners, male and female. Personally, I try keep the food real and as unprocessed as possible (wine isn't processed, right?!). Have a look on this thread for some ideas. There are similar threads, if anyone fancies digging for them and linking here feel free. Now I really am off to me leaba
Cheers. I'll pick up some iron supplements. The plan is to build up a good bit of rest for the next 3 weeks or so with cycling to keep fitness up, and to go into the training nutritionally sound and feeling good.
Thankfully, wine being processed (or not!) doesn't affect me as I don't drink so that's a hurdle I don't need to climb!0 -
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Welcome on board! Delighted to see you here. Another runner we've been expectingThis Fat Girl Runs wrote: »What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
Just running, which I've been doing since July 2013. I'm 38, overweight (obviously :rolleyes:) but healthy. Everything is normal, blood, cholesterol, thyroid etc. Resting heart rate of 64bpm (does that even matter?!).
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
I've run 11 races so far, with two more planned in the next few weeks (7k on May 24th and 10k on June 1st). Race PB's are:
5km - 39:46 on 14th March, 2015 (Paddy's Festival Race)
5m - 1:08:17 on 25th Jan 2015 (Raheny Road Race)
10km - 1:37:29 on 2nd June 2014 (Women's Mini-Marathon)
I realise these might look like terrible PB's, but they are still my achievements and I'm really proud of them! I am running the WMM again this June and hoping to really smash my time considering all the training I've been doing lately!
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
Only during hard runs, or when I'm increasing my LSR distance.
How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
I train 5 days a week.
Monday: Workout with my PT, legs + weights/core/HIIT
Wednesday: Short, hard run (currently 4 miles + 1 mile cool down)
Thursday: Longer, easy run (currently 6 miles + 1 mile cool down)
Saturday: Workout with my PT, upper body + weights/arms/core
Sunday: Long, slow run (upping to 7 miles this Sunday, no idea how much cool down I'll need!)
I've been going to my trainer since July 2014. Everything he has me do is to help improve my running. Lots of weight work on my legs and posterior chain to tone my running muscles, lots of pilates to strengthen my core. Lots of arm and upper body work to improve the tone of my arms and upper body. HIIT on the spinning bike for the cardio.
How many days a week do you run only?
Three. I can't see myself doing more than that considering my two workout days. It only gives me two days rest and I really need those!
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
My goal is to finish. Ideally I'd love to finish in 5 to 5 and a half hours but I do understand I need to be realistic about it and be happy even if it takes me longer! I see everyone else here is planning a much faster marathon, so I have to be honest and admit I feel really out of place here.
What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
I have a marathon coach who is writing my training plan. I started in April at about 10 miles per week and am currently at 17 miles per week. She is building my upcoming races into my training plan. I am running a 7k on 25th May, the WMM on 1st June, the Irish Runner 5 mile on 27th June, Rock 'n Roll half on 2nd August and the Frank Duffy 10 m on August 22nd. The half marathon in August will be a big determining factor in my marathon strategy, it will tell me everything about how I'm doing with my training and where I'm lacking. I chose the RnR because it will give me more time to plan/train/change my strategy for the marathon.
Is that enough info from me? I'm familiar with your background, support and approach so all I'll say for now is that you're building a solid base and that you will benefit from introducing another day of running into your schedule over the next couple of weeks. Get the WMM out of the way first though.
Re your q on cool down, half a mile to a mile is usually fine. The idea is just to slowly relax your hard working muscles and tissues. The work has been done in the session/run. It can be a shuffle, easy jog or combined with walking too. And I know you're not going to forget stretching in a hurry again 0 -
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