New Rule for eligibility to Away Opens

First Up · 01-05-2015 3:53pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

And above exact scenario will happen - a bit naive to think - ah sure drive on it will be grand.
Golfers are the most pedantic - angry - nosey - inquisitive group going , above will be war.

I think the technology has a bit of catching up to do in order for this to run seamlessly but seeing as the rule was introduced at least in part to cut down on banditry, it is reasonable to assume that prize winners will be checked for eligibility.

Enforcing the rules isn't being pedantic, angry or nosey. It is being thorough and if you were at the wrong end of a bit of handicap chicanery, you might be glad to see it.

Uncle Ben · 01-05-2015 4:58pm

First Up wrote: »

I think the technology has a bit of catching up to do in order for this to run seamlessly but seeing as the rule was introduced at least in part to cut down on banditry, it is reasonable to assume that prize winners will be checked for eligibility.

Enforcing the rules isn't being pedantic, angry or nosey. It is being thorough and if you were at the wrong end of a bit of handicap chicanery, you might be glad to see it.

Your right, the prize winners should be checked, however the ruling requires that all distance, visitors, country etc are subject to this so realistically all visitors to an open should require verification.

Without the technology being available it is going to be at the very best time consuming at worst, impossible if 60, 70 or 80 plus golfers are competing.

I don't think that the bloke winning the 60 quid voucher is the problem. It's the bloke picking up the point 1s by playing mediocre golf week in week out and then entering the am am for the week in Portugal.

Furthermore, it's my turn on the cards this weekend. If I go running lads Gui numbers through Golfnet tonight, I am pretty sure that come next Friday our visitors will decrease whilst the neighbouring club will pick up the slack.

If the Gui want this implemented let them build it into the software. If it is going to rely on self regulation it cannot work. Do people really believe that the alleged club with 7000 members will enforce thi?

Norfolk Enchants_ · 02-05-2015 10:53am

Russman wrote: »

At the risk of sounding like a bit of an old fart, I'm not sure its a great reflection on golf/golfers/clubs/whatever, that basically there seems to be a consensus that a rule brought in by the governing body of a sport is deemed "ok to be ignored" because it doesn't suit a few people.

Good rule or bad rule, like the rule or not, its still a rule. Clubs wilfully ignoring it or not policing it is setting a very dangerous precedent IMHO. If you don't like it, lobby to get it changed.

What about a club playing an 8 handicapper in the Metro but saying "ahh he was only 8 for a day last year, he went straight back out to 9 the next day, its silly to exclude him and he really wants to play....." ??

That's the thing though, it's not really a rule, is it?, it's all a bit vague and the GUI haven't really given proper direction to clubs as to how it's to be implemented and policed.
Essentially from what I can gather, the GUI have said it's up to the individual club as to whether they want to enforce it or not.
So IMO it's a wishy washy, half arsed attempt at addressing a serious issue, and ultimately only serves to give an anti golf message.

Edit to say your point about the handicapper isn't relevant as it's crystal clear from his HC record and there is no scope for arguement or interpretation, which is not the case with this BS new "rule".

First Up · 02-05-2015 1:16pm

Norfolk Enchants_ wrote: »

That's the thing though, it's not really a rule, is it?, it's all a bit vague and the GUI haven't really given proper direction to clubs as to how it's to be implemented and policed.
Essentially from what I can gather, the GUI have said it's up to the individual club as to whether they want to enforce it or not.
So IMO it's a wishy washy, half arsed attempt at addressing a serious issue, and ultimately only serves to give an anti golf message.

Edit to say your point about the handicapper isn't relevant as it's crystal clear from his HC record and there is no scope for arguement or interpretation, which is not the case with this BS new "rule".

What is vague or wishy washy about it?

"in order to be eligible to compete in a Singles Qualifying Competition at an Away Club, with the exception of all events listed in No. 6 of the Union Bye Laws, a Member of a GUI Affiliated Golf Club must have returned at least three scores in Singles Qualifying Competitions at his Home Club"

There may be some inconsistency in the enforcement in the beginning but that loophole will be closed when the automatic check is built in to the Swipe Card system. The GUI hasn't put a date on when that will be but they are working on it.

Kingswood Rover · 02-05-2015 2:23pm

Just don't get bringing a rule without the means of enforcing it. From our clubs perspective of running a lot of opens it will mean ringing a visitors club to check that they are eligible to win a prize if they do indeed win or are placed in our Opens. Another thought, OK so you need to have 3 qualifying scores returned at your home club to be eligible to play in an away open, say you don't fill the requirement but play in the open anyway and get your.1 back, that's kinda iffey. Implementing this rule properly the club hosting the Open probably need to check all away players eligibility, that is a lot of phone calls and in reality no club is going to do this.

First Up · 02-05-2015 2:35pm

Kingswood Rover wrote: »

Just don't get bringing a rule without the means of enforcing it. From our clubs perspective of running a lot of opens it will mean ringing a visitors club to check that they are eligible to win a prize if they do indeed win or are placed in our Opens. Another thought, OK so you need to have 3 qualifying scores returned at your home club to be eligible to play in an away open, say you don't fill the requirement but play in the open anyway and get your.1 back, that's kinda iffey. Implementing this rule properly the club hosting the Open probably need to check all away players eligibility, that is a lot of phone calls and in reality no club is going to do this.

The GUI circular mentions that administrators can check players' records on Golfnet. That is where some inconsistency is possible (i.e. some may not bother) but when it is built onto the Swipe Card system it will be done automatically.

Kingswood Rover · 02-05-2015 4:01pm

First Up wrote: »

The GUI circular mentions that administrators can check players' records on Golfnet. That is where some inconsistency is possible (i.e. some may not bother) but when it is built onto the Swipe Card system it will be done automatically.

Howya First up, does each club have an administrator privilege then on Golfnet that lets them look at any GUI member playing records? asking because i reckon i will end up doing this job in our place at some stage in the next couple of years and am not sure that the present handicap/comp sec is even aware of this.

First Up · 02-05-2015 4:16pm

Kingswood Rover wrote: »

Howya First up, does each club have an administrator privilege then on Golfnet that lets them look at any GUI member playing records? asking because i reckon i will end up doing this job in our place at some stage in the next couple of years and am not sure that the present handicap/comp sec is even aware of this.

That is certainly what is implied in the GUI circular but you could always ask them - I am sure they are fielding questions from many clubs. It is your committee's responsibility to keep up to date with such things; I know that ours is.

However I would imagine the full computerisation of all this is a matter of months away at most. At that stage anyone logging in for an open competition anywhere will be checked automatically.

Kingswood Rover · 02-05-2015 8:02pm

Cheers, yep will bring it up at the next meeting, reckon we have to be squeaky clean and by the book with this given our membership profile.

The Big Easy · 02-05-2015 8:10pm

paulos53 wrote: »

As far as I know this motion was passed earlier this year

"“That, with effect from 1st March 2015, in order to be eligible to compete in a Singles Qualifying Competition at an Away Club, with the exception of all events listed in No. 6 of the Union Bye Laws, a Member of a GUI Affiliated Golf Club must have returned at least three scores in Singles Qualifying Competitions at his Home Club, at any time on or after the corresponding date one year before the Singles Qualifying Competition at the Away Club.”

This allows you to play 3 home comps and then enter away comps for the rest of the year.

So can anyone confirm that this is definitely the case?

Am I eligible for the rest of the year now I've played three home opens?

Don't think it's been handled great by the GUI. There is very little information about it online. And if this amendment is official I can't find any reference to it

Anyway hope you're right paulos

First Up · 02-05-2015 8:19pm

The Big Easy wrote: »

So can anyone confirm that this is definitely the case?

Am I eligible for the rest of the year now I've played three home opens?

Don't think it's been handled great by the GUI. There is very little information about it online. And if this amendment is official I can't find any reference to it

Anyway hope you're right paulos

As I understand it is any 3 qualifying competitions at your home club - not just opens. But the reported amendment from cards last year to this year has complicated it so for an exact answer you should contact the GUI - assuming your own club can't give you a definitive answer.

Axel Lamp · 02-05-2015 10:16pm

Uncle Ben wrote: »

Do people really believe that the alleged club with 7000 members will enforce thi?

What alleged club has allegedly 7000 members?

Uncle Ben · 02-05-2015 11:53pm

Axel Lamp wrote: »

What alleged club has allegedly 7000 members?

Read the thread. There are clubs mentioned with memberships ranging from 800 to 8000! The point raised however, is that the Gui who want this ruling enforced haven't provided the technology to enforce it. Apart from some volunteer sitting by a phone on Open Days, and phoning competitors home clubs, hoping that the volunteer in that club has that info. Mad Ted.

First Up · 03-05-2015 8:15am

Uncle Ben wrote: »

Read the thread. There are clubs mentioned with memberships ranging from 800 to 8000! The point raised however, is that the Gui who want this ruling enforced haven't provided the technology to enforce it. Apart from some volunteer sitting by a phone on Open Days, and phoning competitors home clubs, hoping that the volunteer in that club has that info. Mad Ted.

Did you read the bit of the thread where it says the information is accessible through Golfnet (for the moment) and that GUI is working with the various software vendors to make it part of the swipe card system?

Uncle Ben · 03-05-2015 8:54am

First Up wrote: »

Did you read the bit of the thread where it says the information is accessible through Golfnet (for the moment) and that GUI is working with the various software vendors to make it part of the swipe card system?

I did. But it still requires a member of committee or some other volunteers being present and checking Gui numbers prior to people playing. This just isn't feasible. Last bank holiday weekend I played the open in Ballinrobe, I paid the barmaid, signed in. and teed off. Is this girl expected to check Golfnet aswell as serving coffees etc.
In my club it's hard enough to get players to make themselves available to check cards during open week., let alone sit by a computer checking visitors eligibility.

First Up · 03-05-2015 9:33am

Uncle Ben wrote: »

I did. But it still requires a member of committee or some other volunteers being present and checking Gui numbers prior to people playing. This just isn't feasible. Last bank holiday weekend I played the open in Ballinrobe, I paid the barmaid, signed in. and teed off. Is this girl expected to check Golfnet aswell as serving coffees etc.
In my club it's hard enough to get players to make themselves available to check cards during open week., let alone sit by a computer checking visitors eligibility.

I don't see clubs that want to fill their times sheets being too bothered about people playing their opens. However prize winners are a different story and checking a few of those once a month is hardly onerous. And when it is built into the Swipe Cards, the barmaid can devote herself fully to her catering duties.

Bear in mind that this was introduced primarily (at least ostensibly) to tackle banditry. Tackling distance members who never visit or play their "home" club is a side benefit - as will be putting manners on clubs that dole out GUI cards (for other clubs to honour) as an income stream.

Axel Lamp · 03-05-2015 11:12am

Uncle Ben wrote: »

Read the thread. There are clubs mentioned with memberships ranging from 800 to 8000! The point raised however, is that the Gui who want this ruling enforced haven't provided the technology to enforce it. Apart from some volunteer sitting by a phone on Open Days, and phoning competitors home clubs, hoping that the volunteer in that club has that info. Mad Ted.

It was a genuine simple question, I don't have the time to read 40 odd pages.

Uncle Ben · 03-05-2015 4:13pm

Axel Lamp wrote: »

It was a genuine simple question, I don't have the time to read 40 odd pages.

Sorry I didn't mean to sound so smart. There are clubs such as Blessington, Scarke, Slievenamon mentioned and portrayed as having memberships of 800 to 8000!

Uncle Ben · 03-05-2015 4:15pm

First Up wrote: »

I don't see clubs that want to fill their times sheets being too bothered about people playing their opens. However prize winners are a different story and checking a few of those once a month is hardly onerous. And when it is built into the Swipe Cards, the barmaid can devote herself fully to her catering duties.

Bear in mind that this was introduced primarily (at least ostensibly) to tackle banditry. Tackling distance members who never visit or play their "home" club is a side benefit - as will be putting manners on clubs that dole out GUI cards (for other clubs to honour) as an income stream.

That's what I said earlier. I'll check those in the winners enclosure the rest will escape under the radar.

First Up · 03-05-2015 4:47pm

Uncle Ben wrote: »

That's what I said earlier. I'll check those in the winners enclosure the rest will escape under the radar.

Only until the swipe card software kicks in.

Kingswood Rover · 03-05-2015 5:45pm

Uncle Ben wrote: »

Sorry I didn't mean to sound so smart. There are clubs such as Blessington, Scarke, Slievenamon mentioned and portrayed as having memberships of 800 to 8000!

Just to clarify Blessington Lakes have about 450 minor members.

bobster453 · 03-05-2015 7:23pm

Just to clarify Slievenamon have total membership a lot lot closer to the 800 than the 8000 quoted despite what people may believe

SaveOurLyric · 03-05-2015 9:21pm

I guess that those clubs in favour of the restriction were not too concerned about the practicalities of implementing it, have themselves the resources to do so, and assumed other clubs would be equally favourable to its application.
But those clubs who dont have the resources of manpower are the same ones who are happy to take any euros waved in their direction, so in practice the move is academic.
Clubs can run all-comers open if they wish - whats the GUI going to do about it ?

First Up · 03-05-2015 9:39pm

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

I guess that those clubs in favour of the restriction were not too concerned about the practicalities of implementing it, have themselves the resources to do so, and assumed other clubs would be equally favourable to its application.
But those clubs who dont have the resources of manpower are the same ones who are happy to take any euros waved in their direction, so in practice the move is academic.
Clubs can run all-comers open if they wish - whats the GUI going to do about it ?

All comers opens would be bad news for the "distance" membership floggers.
The GUI's only interest would be protecting the integrity of the handicap system. What clubs charge for membership or for opens is their own business.

bobster453 · 04-05-2015 12:12am

All comers opens would be bad news for golf as a whole.The next step would logically be opens where everyone is given a local handicap regulated by the club running the open outside any regulation of the GUI.Make the prizes attractive enough charge a few euro extra and its a sure recipe for success..or disaster depending on your perspective.
But wait these are already in operation and getting bigger each year.

Thats where you see the real golf bandits.With artificially high handicaps golf bag in one hand and passport in the other all ready for yet another free holiday to Spain.

FixdePitchmark · 04-05-2015 8:32am

Lads - could some post a link of these competitions that have a trip to Spain in them

I could have a new target.

SaveOurLyric · 04-05-2015 8:42am

I was not clear, but meant come-all competitions as those that disregard the new rule, rather than allowing people without a handicap at all. Which I guess in practice is what is happening. Clubs are asking for a GUI handicap, but not whether you have qualifying scores entered the previous year. They want your cash......so best not to ask.

Putt it there · 04-05-2015 8:59am

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Lads - could some post a link of these competitions that have a trip to Spain in them

I could have a new target.

Ditto

First Up · 04-05-2015 9:04am

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

I was not clear, but meant come-all competitions as those that disregard the new rule, rather than allowing people without a handicap at all. Which I guess in practice is what is happening. Clubs are asking for a GUI handicap, but not whether you have qualifying scores entered the previous year. They want your cash......so best not to ask.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the Swipe Card software is updated to include the 3 qualifying rounds. Will clubs still let people play - but tell them they are ineligible for prizes?

SaveOurLyric · 04-05-2015 9:14am

First Up wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what happens when the Swipe Card software is updated to include the 3 qualifying rounds. Will clubs still let people play - but tell them they are ineligible for prizes?

This is my question. What is to stop them doing nothing ? Just let people pay, play, win a prize maybe. Can those clubs who wish to, not continue doing that. Which will attract them even more open visitors.....

New Rule for eligibility to Away Opens

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