New Rule for eligibility to Away Opens

GreeBo

PARlance wrote: »

Was just thinking that this is an awful lot of fuss for a couple of thousand or so distance golfers (~0.5% of golfers in Ireland).

Maybe the more interesting stat is what % of distance golfers are "an issue" compared to home golfers?
I think its more than a couple of thousand if Skarke has a couple of its own.

cairny

ezra_ wrote: »

I presume comps under winter rules count?

No. 3 Qualifying comps, would defeat the purpose if non counting comps counted.

Russman

I think the new rule is a bit of a compromise tbh. And, as a result it will do absolutely nothing IMO. I mean, really, how hard is it to play 3 round in a season in your supposed "home" course ? On the flip side, if you are one of the handicap scoundrels, all it means is you get a handy three 0.1s for your efforts in driving down.

3 comps was probably all that they could get passed at the EGM (speculation on my part). The union possibly came at it with the intention of trying to be seen to do something about handicaps, whereas the clubs will have their membership income agenda.

The clubs for sure have been a bit slow in communicating things, but IMHO enough people know about it through the grapevine that to be caught out next year is pretty bad planning, or if circumstances don't allow you to get 3 cards in, well then, you can't have rules that suit everyone's situation.

Its harsh on new members in fairness, but maybe if someone doesn't join a faraway club because of the rule, they might join a club they'll actually play in. Lets not forget the whole idea of joining a club is that its to play golf there. If on the other hand someone just wants a handicap, its hardly unreasonable to expect some limitations on what you can and can't do, otherwise everyone would join some place down the country for half nothing and the courses that the distance members actually want to play on week in week out would close. It might be harsh but you can't have everything.

PARlance

alxmorgan wrote: »

But is that part of this at all ?
I presumed once you had 3 qualifying scores you could change club and still play opens ?

It specifically says must have played 3..... in his Home Club during the previous calendar year.
I would read into it that if you switch clubs you can't play in opens that year, after your switch from Club A to B, club B is now your home and you don't have 3 qualifying scores there.

If that wasn't the case they should have said "home club or former home club"?
Maybe it's just a grey area that needs clarification

GreeBo

PARlance wrote: »

It specifically says must have played 3..... in his Home Club during the previous calendar year.
I would read into it that if you switch clubs you can't play in opens that year, after your switch from Club A to B, club B is now your home and you don't have 3 qualifying scores there.

If that wasn't the case they should have said "home club or former home club"?
Maybe it's just a grey area that needs clarification

I dont think thats correct, my assumption is that you must have played 3 in your home club at the time. It distinguishes between playing in your home club and playing in opens, which is the point of the change.

Switching clubs should have no impact as long as you were eligible in your old club you are eligible in the new.

PARlance

GreeBo wrote: »

Maybe the more interesting stat is what % of distance golfers are "an issue" compared to home golfers?
I think its more than a couple of thousand if Skarke has a couple of its own.

Not sure about Skarke, I was basing it on SlieveN as I thought that it was the biggest one.
1,700 members there and I was allowing 4-500 being locals.
SlieveN had 7,000 members on here at one stage.... Does Skarke actually have 2,000 or is it just a case of Chinese whispers?

Not sure of your first question!
Are you wondering what % of their members are bandits (an issue) ?
Impossible to ever know that, but I know plenty of "proper clubs" where the bandit culture would be hard to equal.

FixdePitchmark

Whilst I can see that there is some logic to the rule.

The impact on new members is daft - some of these paying over 1000 euro , and some paying more. There are enough obstacles to joining a golf club. Removing a major positive of joining a golf club - could have a major (perhaps unintended) negative impact on a person joining.

These people are making a commitment to a local club - they should be rewarded.

As it is computerised - you could have just said - the individual is eligible once he has played 5 additional comps at his home club after handicap is given- prior to being able to enter opens. Why can't this be in the first year as member ?

The more I read about this - it seems there is just confusion of what the actually intention of the rule is ?
Are the unintended consequences the real motives - Play more at home ? - Stop playing away ? - Stop changing Clubs ? - Get the bandits ? .

Perhaps it is all of above , but the lack of information and the sort of sudden role out to the golfing community will be interesting - do many golfers follow the ins and outs of the GUI ? Doubt it.

brick tamland

Apologies as is probably already answered but thread is pretty long and I haven't seen it

Thinking of moving club at end of the year. Played in plenty of home qualifying comps this year. Has it been confirmed if movers can play opens the following year if played enough on the old home course?

Cheers

FixdePitchmark

brick tamland wrote: »

Apologies as is probably already answered but thread is pretty long and I haven't seen it

Thinking of moving club at end of the year. Played in plenty of home qualifying comps this year. Has it been confirmed if movers can play opens the following year if played enough on the old home course?

Cheers

See above -

Even if we should know the answer to above - how on earth can something like this be introduced if we don't know the answer to above

I've also seen the point - are Open Competitions on your home course considered qualifying for this purpose

Perhaps - I should know the answer to all this ?

n2o

I've attached the details sent by the GUI to clubs dated 12th August. Our club forwarded it to all members.

It includes a Q&A. It's only for Singles Qualifying Comps, team events are not affected (Q1). Also, if you change club you are fine as long as you played 3 qualifying comps in your home club in the previous year (Q6).

PARlance

Lol- not automated yet (Q8)

Give clubs a break and introduce it when it has been automated.
That's going to bring a whole pile of crap that clubs don't need.

SnowDrifts

PARlance wrote: »

Lol- not automated yet (Q8)

Give clubs a break and introduce it when it has been automated.
That's going to bring a whole pile of crap that clubs don't need.

That is definitely a bit silly alright!! Can't imagine too many club pros checking up golfnet records for every away entrant!

FixdePitchmark

PARlance wrote: »

Lol- not automated yet (Q8)

Give clubs a break and introduce it when it has been automated.
That's going to bring a whole pile of crap that clubs don't need.

Am I reading it right that - a few local lads can go - aaaaahhhhhhh work away


An Irish Solution.............

FixdePitchmark

From reading all the ins and outs from reading posts from lads around golf for a long time.

It is a struggle to see how anybody understands the impact of this on golf.


I've a feeling there are more important things for the GUI to deal with - most importantly, the age profile in the sport.

SaveOurLyric

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

From reading all the ins and outs from reading posts from lads around golf for a long time.

It is a struggle to see how anybody understands the impact of this on golf.


I've a feeling there are more important things for the GUI to deal with - most importantly, the age profile in the sport.

And they are dealing with plenty of other topics.
It we boards.ie nerds getting hot about this one.

PARlance

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

And they are dealing with plenty of other topics.
It we boards.ie nerds getting hot about this one.

What other topics are they dealing with?

Genuine question, haven't a clue apart from some roadmap thingy that seemed to have little substance.

FixdePitchmark

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

And they are dealing with plenty of other topics.
It we boards.ie nerds getting hot about this one.

But I'm around GUI golf about 3 years now - first time I seen them at anything.

I accept the top end of the game and Golf nerds need protectionism.

But - the point I'm making is, it is real -

Nero fiddled while Rome burned.

Yes - the squeaky wheel gets the grease.


Sorry - too many words.

They are just sort of looking after their dwindling gang ?

SaveOurLyric

PARlance wrote: »

What other topics are they dealing with?

Genuine question, haven't a clue apart from some roadmap thingy that seemed to have little substance.

Bigging up the greatest bandits in Ireland at the moment is the first topic on the agenda at them moment:
http://www.gui.ie
They are a joke, and their endorsement of this garbage is a disgrace. Still, don the blazer, free dinner, speech, photos to beat the band, 'every thing thats great about amateur golf' cliches. Barf.

Sometimes they do other stuff: self congratulatory speeches to themselves and their peers or international counterparts, hanging around in their blazers, or taking freebie trips to international events. Oh, and photos. Lots of photos.

PARlance

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Bigging up the greatest bandits in Ireland at the moment is the first topic on the agenda at them moment:
http://www.gui.ie
They are a joke, and their endorsement of this garbage is a disgrace. Still, don the blazer, free dinner, speech, photos to beat the band, 'every thing thats great about amateur golf' cliches. Barf.

Sometimes they do other stuff: self congratulatory speeches to themselves and their peers or international counterparts, hanging around in their blazers, or taking freebie trips to international events. Oh, and photos. Lots of photos.

I thought you were defending
them earlier when saying "they are dealing with plenty of other topics".... I obviously missed the tone on that one

Btw. Was having a look at this AGM.
Something of note is that a motion was passed that you can only get 20 plus 1s in a year. So, there's going to be a point where golfers, playing a fair bit, will stop getting 0.1s.

Edit: scrap that. They only approved a motion for it to be put forward to Congu.

FixdePitchmark

Sorry SOL are you being Ironic.

Because - I know very little about them.

At this stage - I don't know if that is my fault or theirs.
It just seems like a society run for themselves and an elite bunch of players and banner bandit comps.

I could have everthing wrong ?

SaveOurLyric

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Sorry SOL are you being Ironic.

Because - I know very little about them.

At this stage - I don't know if that is my fault or theirs.
It just seems like a society run for themselves and an elite bunch of players and banner bandit comps.

I could have everthing wrong ?

Know very little about them ? Au contraire mon brave. You have the full picture. Unfortunately.

Unglika Norse

Scarke currently have 362 men, what percentage of them are distant I don't know.

This move by the GUI has nothing at all to do with regulatiing handicaps and is a response, to the crib by clubs at the loss of members to places like Scarke, Slievenamon, Mountain View and the like, also bear in mind that under pay and play schemes which include a handicap, meant that clubs like Castleknock & Blessington Lakes increased their membership numbers fourfold to in excess of 800 members and this on a 9 hole course

The GUI Leinster Branch thought long and hard about this one because of the implications it has for many clubs with a large membership, it may or may not reduce the number of distance memberships, it may or may not lead to a big increase in competition fees, only time will tell.

What it will not do, is have any effect on a player whether distant or home who wants to manipulate their handicap.

I also see that someone was making a distinction between "real" members and distance members.

Given that some "real members" are members of society golf clubs that tone rings a bit hollow.

The original mistake IMO, was made back in 1976 when the GUI affiliated the first non member owned golf club to the union, of course they couldn't have forseen what would happen to the game at that stage,

Golf clubs can restrict or apply any conditions they like to open competitions including limiting who can play in them.

Originally Golf Clubs had 1 open week per year and maybe an odd semi open along the way, now there is opens all over the country every day of the week. with some clubs running an "open" everyday, it is the "opens" themselves that have become devalued.

PARlance

Unglika Norse wrote: »

Scarke currently have 362 men, what percentage of them are distant I don't know.

GreeBo wrote: »

I think its more than a couple of thousand if Skarke has a couple of its own.

This thread is great. It's all the GUI need.

We've elimated 6,000 bandits/distance members from Slievenamon and another 2,000 from Skarke.

pete4pool

Question about the Q8&A8 on the GUI pdf posted here. "You are able to check each visitors Golfnet record"

When I log into golfnet and go to member handicap, I can see all the comp i have played this year. Both home and away results. When I go to "away records", it is blank.

So how can you tell which records are home and which are away. I know that each record gives the club venue number. Do that have to look up the venue number of my home club and match it?
Or have my away clubs entered my results incorrectly? And should have put them as away?

Unless you are in the prizes I don't see clubs checking this for every player.

flugel

This measure will not affect bandits.

I'd be confident of saying there are more club members than distance members abusing the system. They play more often, at a lower competition entry fee (fiver roughly) and can build handicaps over time.

Distance member playing solely in open competitions have less opportunity to play for 0.1's, pay a higher price to enter every competition and I doubt many would be willing to hand over roughly €20 (and up) for a precious 0.1

I am not saying there are no distance member bandits, but I'm sure we all know quite a few who abuse the system at our own courses

n2o

pete4pool wrote: »

Question about the Q8&A8 on the GUI pdf posted here. "You are able to check each visitors Golfnet record"

When I log into golfnet and go to member handicap, I can see all the comp i have played this year. Both home and away results. When I go to "away records", it is blank.

So how can you tell which records are home and which are away. I know that each record gives the club venue number. Do that have to look up the venue number of my home club and match it?
Or have my away clubs entered my results incorrectly? And should have put them as away?

Unless you are in the prizes I don't see clubs checking this for every player.

Away records in GolfNet are records that have not been processed by your handicap sec. Once processed they appear on your normal Member Handicap screen.

PARlance

flugel wrote: »

This measure will not affect bandits.

I'd be confident of saying there are more club members than distance members abusing the system. They play more often, at a lower competition entry fee (fiver roughly) and can build handicaps over time.

Distance member playing solely in open competitions have less opportunity to play for 0.1's, pay a higher price to enter every competition and I doubt many would be willing to hand over roughly €20 (and up) for a precious 0.1

I am not saying there are no distance member bandits, but I'm sure we all know quite a few who abuse the system at our own courses

The person (that will not be) checking will just look for 3 QSH's on your record.
Qualifying Singles Home

kieran.

I've only played one Open comp away this year but on Golfnet its coming up as a home competiton (QZH)? any reason for this?

First Up

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Bigging up the greatest bandits in Ireland at the moment is the first topic on the agenda at them moment:
http://www.gui.ie
They are a joke, and their endorsement of this garbage is a disgrace. Still, don the blazer, free dinner, speech, photos to beat the band, 'every thing thats great about amateur golf' cliches. Barf.

Sometimes they do other stuff: self congratulatory speeches to themselves and their peers or international counterparts, hanging around in their blazers, or taking freebie trips to international events. Oh, and photos. Lots of photos.

The GUI people I know sacrifice several nights a week, numerous weekends and have very little time to golf. All on a voluntary basis. If they get a few perks from time to time, good luck to them - they deserve it.

LuckyGent88

Having just become aware of this new rule after returning from abroad after 4 years away I am gobsmacked by it. I understand the reasoning behind it but from my point of view its a load of bollix and a complete disincentive to join a club.

Thanks to the big easy for making me aware of the rule at the boards outing on Saturday. Having enquired about the rule at my home club, they can't understand the rule and have never heard of it. They certainly would not be rejecting green fees anyway. Most clubs are struggling financially and every little helps especially visitors green fees.
Having been really looking forward to playing junior scratch cups around the country and playing other courses I'm pretty pissed off with this new rule.

I have been unable to find a link for the rule on the new (****e) golfnet website so if somebody could point me towards it I would be grateful. I have emailed the gui but have had no response so far.