New Rule for eligibility to Away Opens

First Up · 29-04-2015 8:57pm

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

Having just become aware of this new rule after returning from abroad after 4 years away I am gobsmacked by it. I understand the reasoning behind it but from my point of view its a load of bollix and a complete disincentive to join a club.

Thanks to the big easy for making me aware of the rule at the boards outing on Saturday. Having enquired about the rule at my home club, they can't understand the rule and have never heard of it. They certainly would not be rejecting green fees anyway. Most clubs are struggling financially and every little helps especially visitors green fees.
Having been really looking forward to playing junior scratch cups around the country and playing other courses I'm pretty pissed off with this new rule.

I have been unable to find a link for the rule on the new (****e) golfnet website so if somebody could point me towards it I would be grateful. I have emailed the gui but have had no response so far.

What exactly is your problem?

LuckyGent88 · 29-04-2015 9:06pm

I won't be able to play singles in an away club (mainly junior scratch cups) as I was not a member of a club for the past 4 years while due. As I am now a new member I won't be able to play these singles except for senior scratch cups. How is the rule fair for my situation?

First Up · 29-04-2015 9:26pm

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

I won't be able to play singles in an away club (mainly junior scratch cups) as I was not a member of a club for the past 4 years while due. As I am now a new member I won't be able to play these singles except for senior scratch cups. How is the rule fair for my situation?

You can play in them from next January, assuming you play 3 qualifiers in your home club this year. I don't see why that is a dis-incentive to join a club, seeing as you have to be a club member to play opens anyway.

The rule was introduced to curtail the widespread abuse of both distance memberships and handicaps. Blame the abusers, not the GUI.

LuckyGent88 · 29-04-2015 9:44pm

First Up wrote: »

You can play in them from next January, assuming you play 3 qualifiers in your home club this year. I don't see why that is a dis-incentive to join a club, seeing as you have to be a club member to play opens anyway.

The rule was introduced to curtail the widespread abuse of both distance memberships and handicaps. Blame the abusers, not the GUI.

out of interest, if somebody was injured during 2014 and was unable to play golf for the year yet was a member of a club, are they allowed play in away open singles.
I do understand the reasoning behind it as I have a massive hatred of all these abusers and anything to discourage the behaviour I would normally be in favour of but personally I feel this is extremely unfair in my circumstances. Better take my name off the time sheet for portumna for the open singles then.

But any chance you know where I can find the link? Father doesn't believe this rule at all and even the person who runs the comps in my club didnt know about it.

First Up · 29-04-2015 9:51pm

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

out of interest, if somebody was injured during 2014 and was unable to play golf for the year yet was a member of a club, are they allowed play in away open singles.
I do understand the reasoning behind it as I have a massive hatred of all these abusers and anything to discourage the behaviour I would normally be in favour of but personally I feel this is extremely unfair in my circumstances. Better take my name off the time sheet for portumna for the open singles then.

But any chance you know where I can find the link? Father doesn't believe this rule at all and even the person who runs the comps in my club didnt know about it.

http://www.kinsalegolf.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/GUI-Aug-2014.pdf

http://www.independent.ie/sport/golf/gui-open-rule-passed-30025748.html

(I'm not a member of Kinsale. I just found the letter on their website.)

I don't know how it would be applied in the case of injury. Fair question.

LuckyGent88 · 29-04-2015 9:59pm

First Up wrote: »

http://www.kinsalegolf.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/GUI-Aug-2014.pdf

http://www.independent.ie/sport/golf/gui-open-rule-passed-30025748.html

(I'm not a member of Kinsale. I just found the letter on their website.)

I don't know how it would be applied in the case of injury. Fair question.

Thanks for the replies anyway.

PARlance · 29-04-2015 10:00pm

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

out of interest, if somebody was injured during 2014 and was unable to play golf for the year yet was a member of a club, are they allowed play in away open singles.
I do understand the reasoning behind it as I have a massive hatred of all these abusers and anything to discourage the behaviour I would normally be in favour of but personally I feel this is extremely unfair in my circumstances. Better take my name off the time sheet for portumna for the open singles then.

But any chance you know where I can find the link? Father doesn't believe this rule at all and even the person who runs the comps in my club didnt know about it.

I'll eat my hat if you're asked once this year. The majority of clubs aren't enforcing it from what I've seen and it'll be ages before they get this automated.... When they struggle with launching a website it leads me to think it'll be years away. And until it's automated, most clubs wont enforce imo.

You're still free to play in team events etc. No issues there at all....

First Up · 29-04-2015 10:04pm

PARlance wrote: »

I'll eat my hat if you're asked once this year. The majority of clubs aren't enforcing it from what I've seen and it'll be ages before they get this automated.... When they struggle with launching a website it leads me to think it'll be years away. And until it's automated, most clubs wont enforce imo.

You're still free to play in team events etc. No issues there at all....

I'd say "normal" opens are ok but scratch cups might be a different story.

paulos53 · 29-04-2015 10:05pm

As far as I know this motion was passed earlier this year

"“That, with effect from 1st March 2015, in order to be eligible to compete in a Singles Qualifying Competition at an Away Club, with the exception of all events listed in No. 6 of the Union Bye Laws, a Member of a GUI Affiliated Golf Club must have returned at least three scores in Singles Qualifying Competitions at his Home Club, at any time on or after the corresponding date one year before the Singles Qualifying Competition at the Away Club.”

This allows you to play 3 home comps and then enter away comps for the rest of the year.

alxmorgan · 29-04-2015 10:12pm

paulos53 wrote: »

As far as I know this motion was passed earlier this year

"“That, with effect from 1st March 2015, in order to be eligible to compete in a Singles Qualifying Competition at an Away Club, with the exception of all events listed in No. 6 of the Union Bye Laws, a Member of a GUI Affiliated Golf Club must have returned at least three scores in Singles Qualifying Competitions at his Home Club, at any time on or after the corresponding date one year before the Singles Qualifying Competition at the Away Club.”

This allows you to play 3 home comps and then enter away comps for the rest of the year.

At last. Was the part of the new rule that made zero sense to me.

PARlance · 29-04-2015 10:13pm

First Up wrote: »

I'd say "normal" opens are ok but scratch cups might be a different story.

Maybe a bit more notice will be given but I can't see them checking everyone in advance even for scratch cups (with lower limits).

First Up · 29-04-2015 10:31pm

alxmorgan wrote: »

At last. Was the part of the new rule that made zero sense to me.

Seems fairer alright.

LuckyGent88 · 29-04-2015 10:35pm

Cheers for the replies. Think I'll just crack on and play the courses and see what happens.

Dayor Knight · 29-04-2015 10:35pm

Lads, anybody know how this is being implemented?

I recently transferred my handicap to a new 'home club'. Played a number of times last year in my previous club, so it's a 100% legit handicap, but those records won't be on Golfnet, just the handicap. If I try to play in an open competition will I have a problem? Will I have to play three rounds at the new club before I can play in an Open? Its no big deal for me to not play opens for a while, but I'd like the option, and not to run into some problem like turning up to play and being told "sorry, the system won't let you register.....". Anybody know the story? Any info appreciated, thanks.

alxmorgan · 29-04-2015 10:36pm

Dayor Knight wrote: »

Lads, anybody know how this is being implemented?

I recently transferred my handicap to a new 'home club'. Played a number of times last year in my previous club, so it's a 100% legit handicap, but those records won't be on Golfnet, just the handicap. If I try to play in an open competition will I have a problem? Will I have to play three rounds at the new club before I can play in an Open? Its no big deal for me to not play opens for a while, but I'd like the option, and not to run into some problem like turning up to play and being told "sorry, the system won't let you register.....". Anybody know the story? Any info appreciated, thanks.

See question 6 here:

http://www.kinsalegolf.ie/wp-content...I-Aug-2014.pdf

Seems like it won't be an issue

Dayor Knight · 29-04-2015 10:42pm

alxmorgan wrote: »

See question 6 here:

http://www.kinsalegolf.ie/wp-content...I-Aug-2014.pdf

Seems like it won't be an issue

Thanks a lot, I hadn't spotted that. I'll be getting out soon so, lubbly, jubbly... now just for the weather to settle down again.

First Up · 29-04-2015 11:05pm

Dayor Knight wrote: »

Thanks a lot, I hadn't spotted that. I'll be getting out soon so, lubbly, jubbly... now just for the weather to settle down again.

That would be nice!

Norfolk Enchants_ · 30-04-2015 10:03am

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

Having just become aware of this new rule after returning from abroad after 4 years away I am gobsmacked by it. I understand the reasoning behind it but from my point of view its a load of bollix and a complete disincentive to join a club.

Thanks to the big easy for making me aware of the rule at the boards outing on Saturday. Having enquired about the rule at my home club, they can't understand the rule and have never heard of it. They certainly would not be rejecting green fees anyway. Most clubs are struggling financially and every little helps especially visitors green fees.
Having been really looking forward to playing junior scratch cups around the country and playing other courses I'm pretty pissed off with this new rule.

I have been unable to find a link for the rule on the new (****e) golfnet website so if somebody could point me towards it I would be grateful. I have emailed the gui but have had no response so far.

Not surprised you're Gobsmacked, it's a nonsense rule giving an anti golf message. If there is an issue with clubs with cheap membership, then the GUI should deal with that issue directly, this nonsense and unpoliceable rule will do nothing to change what it is intended to tackle, it will only serve to give an anti golf message.
I'd say work away as normal and play whatever comps you would have been playing ordinarily.

Redzah · 30-04-2015 7:38pm

Norfolk Enchants_ wrote: »

Not surprised you're Gobsmacked, it's a nonsense rule giving an anti golf message. If there is an issue with clubs with cheap membership, then the GUI should deal with that issue directly, this nonsense and unpoliceable rule will do nothing to change what it is intended to tackle, it will only serve to give an anti golf message.
I'd say work away as normal and play whatever comps you would have been playing ordinarily.

Definitely play in whatever open comps u want to play in, I'd be shocked if you were turned away. I was a distance member somewhere last year (never played in the course I was a member of) and I am now back to playing regular club golf in my new club this year. I will be playing in plenty of scratch cups and I'm not that concerned about this rule.

First Up · 30-04-2015 8:34pm

Redzah wrote: »

Definitely play in whatever open comps u want to play in, I'd be shocked if you were turned away. I was a distance member somewhere last year (never played in the course I was a member of) and I am now back to playing regular club golf in my new club this year. I will be playing in plenty of scratch cups and I'm not that concerned about this rule.

If you are playing regularly in your club then you wouldn't have a problem anyway. All you need is three qualifying cards and you are good to go.

It isn't for the GUI to tell clubs what to charge for membership but they are entitled to set the terms under which other clubs are expected to accomodate members of other clubs in their competitions. The rule was introduced at the behest of clubs and for good reason. It is up to each club how they decide to enforce it. "Distance" bandits might want to check on that before setting off.

Uncle Ben · 01-05-2015 8:20am

First Up wrote: »

If you are playing regularly in your club then you wouldn't have a problem anyway. All you need is three qualifying cards and you are good to go.

It isn't for the GUI to tell clubs what to charge for membership but they are entitled to set the terms under which other clubs are expected to accomodate members of other clubs in their competitions. The rule was introduced at the behest of clubs and for good reason. It is up to each club how they decide to enforce it. "Distance" bandits might want to check on that before setting off.

Open day in our place today. Computer set up with timesheet however no one will be policing it. Are clubs expected to provide someone to verify everyone's handicap on Golfnet prior to playing? If a visitor wins they may have a problem. If a visitor swipes in plays and swipes out having played sh##e will someone check their card. I don't think so.

First Up · 01-05-2015 8:45am

Uncle Ben wrote: »

Open day in our place today. Computer set up with timesheet however no one will be policing it. Are clubs expected to provide someone to verify everyone's handicap on Golfnet prior to playing? If a visitor wins they may have a problem. If a visitor swipes in plays and swipes out having played sh##e will someone check their card. I don't think so.

As I said, it is up to each club to decide how they enforce it.

Russman · 01-05-2015 9:02am

At the risk of sounding like a bit of an old fart, I'm not sure its a great reflection on golf/golfers/clubs/whatever, that basically there seems to be a consensus that a rule brought in by the governing body of a sport is deemed "ok to be ignored" because it doesn't suit a few people.

Good rule or bad rule, like the rule or not, its still a rule. Clubs wilfully ignoring it or not policing it is setting a very dangerous precedent IMHO. If you don't like it, lobby to get it changed.

What about a club playing an 8 handicapper in the Metro but saying "ahh he was only 8 for a day last year, he went straight back out to 9 the next day, its silly to exclude him and he really wants to play....." ??

First Up · 01-05-2015 9:07am

Russman wrote: »

At the risk of sounding like a bit of an old fart, I'm not sure its a great reflection on golf/golfers/clubs/whatever, that basically there seems to be a consensus that a rule brought in by the governing body of a sport is deemed "ok to be ignored" because it doesn't suit a few people.

Good rule or bad rule, like the rule or not, its still a rule. Clubs wilfully ignoring it or not policing it is setting a very dangerous precedent IMHO. If you don't like it, lobby to get it changed.

What about a club playing an 8 handicapper in the Metro but saying "ahh he was only 8 for a day last year, he went straight back out to 9 the next day, its silly to exclude him and he really wants to play....." ??

Like all new rules there will be a period of adjustment and probably inconsistency as it gets going. Presumably its implementation will be reviewed at some point. For sure, it will be much easier to apply/enforce if it is computer based and I don't know how far away that is.

The GUI is an association of clubs. This rule was proposed by clubs that were unhappy at how their hospitality was being abused to the detriment of the game in general. Presumably those clubs will police it more vigorously than those clubs happy to take a few bob from anyone. Anyone looking to slip under the radar would be well advised to know which clubs are in which category.

Kingswood Rover · 01-05-2015 9:25am

Looking with interest at the debate, the 3 cards rule has been good for us (Blessington Lakes) as we have a large number of minor members that now have to play 3 rounds per year to legitimize their participation in away opens the following year. We also run an open at least once a week and we seem to be getting a lot of our minor members playing regularly in these. The thing that puzzles me is that your swipe card works at an away venue even though you may not have played the required 3 qualifying comps at your home club the previous year. Enable the technology to police the requirement, job done. Although given the well documented problems with Golfnet recently is this even possible?

PARlance · 01-05-2015 9:52am

Kingswood Rover wrote: »

Looking with interest at the debate, the 3 cards rule has been good for us (Blessington Lakes) as we have a large number of minor members that now have to play 3 rounds per year to legitimize their participation in away opens the following year. We also run an open at least once a week and we seem to be getting a lot of our minor members playing regularly in these. The thing that puzzles me is that your swipe card works at an away venue even though you may not have played the required 3 qualifying comps at your home club the previous year. Enable the technology to police the requirement, job done. Although given the well documented problems with Golfnet recently is this even possible?

In theory it's a simple enough piece of work, the automation wouldn't have to be real time and info could be batched overnight (you wouldn't be able to play your 3rd home comp in the morning and then shoot off to play an away that evening though, but that exception wouldn't justify the need/cost for a real time system imo) reducing it's complexity.

I'm not a techie but we all have an account and when we swipe our card it goes to a server to recognise us all individually, all that is required really is a "yes or no" plug in (question to be asked of the server) re the 3 rounds assigned to certain comps (So it would ask for a QSA but not for an away team event etc) that ties into the rule.

But yes it probably is rocket science compared to creating a website and developers don't come cheap.

alxmorgan · 01-05-2015 10:36am

PARlance wrote: »

But yes it probably is rocket science compared to creating a website and developers don't come cheap.

This ^^^^^
If golfnet is anything to go by don't hold your breath !!!!

Kingswood Rover · 01-05-2015 12:12pm

I have just registered myself on Golfnet and it got me thinking, say if a visitor wins a prize in an open and the 2nd placed person or anyone really asks the club to check if the winner is in fact eligible to play in an away open qualifier, how would you even do that. On Golf net you can look at your own record, how do i check Joe bloggs from A another golf club is eligible to walk away with the 6o euro GUI voucher that he has just won in our Open?

FixdePitchmark · 01-05-2015 3:06pm

Russman wrote: »

At the risk of sounding like a bit of an old fart, I'm not sure its a great reflection on golf/golfers/clubs/whatever, that basically there seems to be a consensus that a rule brought in by the governing body of a sport is deemed "ok to be ignored" because it doesn't suit a few people.

Good rule or bad rule, like the rule or not, its still a rule. Clubs wilfully ignoring it or not policing it is setting a very dangerous precedent IMHO. If you don't like it, lobby to get it changed.

What about a club playing an 8 handicapper in the Metro but saying "ahh he was only 8 for a day last year, he went straight back out to 9 the next day, its silly to exclude him and he really wants to play....." ??

Agree with above.

For a sport that is psychotic about the rules - some of the stuff on this thread is an "Irish Solution".

When you think it is not unusual for a dq for the most minor error - the approach being suggested here - is against the spirit and intent of golf.

I am right in saying this was introduced democratically ?

FixdePitchmark · 01-05-2015 3:10pm

Kingswood Rover wrote: »

I have just registered myself on Golfnet and it got me thinking, say if a visitor wins a prize in an open and the 2nd placed person or anyone really asks the club to check if the winner is in fact eligible to play in an away open qualifier, how would you even do that. On Golf net you can look at your own record, how do i check Joe bloggs from A another golf club is eligible to walk away with the 6o euro GUI voucher that he has just won in our Open?

And above exact scenario will happen - a bit naive to think - ah sure drive on it will be grand.
Golfers are the most pedantic - angry - nosey - inquisitive group going , above will be war.

New Rule for eligibility to Away Opens

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