A chance to scrap the Angelus - Nutella, Croissants and Pineapples.

realdanbreen · 09-04-2015 12:43PM

silverharp wrote: »

Only a minority of people pray to a deity on a daily basis if church attendance figures are anything to go by. Cultural Carholics do not need this particular reminder.

Why are atheists so preoccuppied with how Catholics are adhering to their faith?

Delirium · 09-04-2015 12:47PM

realdanbreen wrote: »

Why are atheists so preoccuppied with how Catholics are adhering to their faith?

askes the poster defending the use of a public TV station to ensure a nation adheres to the Catholic faith.

Aenaes · 09-04-2015 12:49PM

realdanbreen wrote: »

But you are living in a country that is 96% Christian. Are you suggesting the 1% that are non believers should dictate to the rest of the country?

It's a Catholic call to prayer, not a Christian call to prayer. So your false statistic doesn't even make sense.

It's a shame Protestants, Presbyterians, Anglicans don't have mad sounds they could use to bombard the radio waves with.

realdanbreen · 09-04-2015 12:50PM

SW wrote: »

askes the poster defending the use of a public TV station to ensure a nation adheres to the Caholic faith.

But I'm not an atheist, are you?

Delirium · 09-04-2015 12:51PM

realdanbreen wrote: »

But I'm not an atheist, are you?

who said you were?

robindch · 09-04-2015 12:52PM

realdanbreen wrote: »

Are you serious Rob? You are unhappy because the angelus is on TV?

I don't know how many times it's worth repeating this for yourself and kidchameleon as you both seem incapable of actually seeing the point of discussion here, either intentionally or unintentionally. This inability to see is interesting in itself, but irrelevant to this discussion.

However, I'll try to break it down into simple pieces involving a simple "principle" and a simple "counterexample". Perhaps you might be able to understand people's perspective then.

1. Principle - RTE is run as a state or semi-state company. And as a secular State, especially one which is Constitutionally prohibited from "endowing religion", the State should not privilege one religious point of view over another.
2. Counterexample - RTE broadcasts the angelus, broadly on behalf of the RCC, but does not provide an equivalent opportunity for other religious or non-religious points of view.
3. Conclusion - RTE is therefore privileging the RCC (and other christian outlets) over other religious points of view.

I don't think it can be made any simpler than this. The issue is not with 2 minutes, seven days a week, of having to turn down the sound of a clanging cymbal, but a principle of state.

Are either of you able to see this?

who the fug · 09-04-2015 12:54PM

galljga1 wrote: »

According to the 2011 census 84% are catholic, 30% of whom go to mass weekly, 3% daily.

have they changed the rules on what constitutes being a Catholic since I were indoctrinated in the seventies/eighties.

One basic rule was

You will go to mass every Sunday, it is a mortal sin not to

Going by the above only 25% of the professed Catholics are Catholic, 75% are lapsed

realdanbreen · 09-04-2015 12:56PM

robindch wrote: »

I don't know how many times it's worth repeating this for yourself and kidchameleon as you both seem incapable of actually seeing the point of discussion here, either intentionally or unintentionally. This inability to see is interesting in itself, but irrelevant to this discussion.

However, I'll try to break it down into simple pieces involving a simple "principle" and a simple "counterexample". Perhaps you might be able to understand people's perspective then.

1. Principle - RTE is run as a state or semi-state company. And as a secular State, especially one which is Constitutionally prohibited from "endowing religion", the State should not privilege one religious point of view over another.
2. Counterexample - RTE broadcasts the angelus, broadly on behalf of the RCC, but does not provide an equivalent opportunity for other religious or non-religious points of view.
3. Conclusion - RTE is therefore privileging the RCC (and other christian outlets) over other religious points of view.

I don't think it can be made any simpler than this. The issue is not with 2 minutes, seven days a week, of having to turn down the sound of a clanging cymbal, but a principle of state.

Are either of you able to see this?

Thats pretty straightforward Rob but the bottom line is these things make you unhappy you say. Me I can take these things or leave them.

death1234567 · 09-04-2015 12:58PM

who the fug wrote: »

Going by the above only 25% of the professed Catholics are Catholic, 75% are lapsed

You can reduce those numbers even more if you take into account the "laziness" of people's general census answers where they "just tick the box". Real world survey's of people actually attending mass on a weekly basis would give the you real (much lower) figure.

robindch · 09-04-2015 12:58PM

realdanbreen wrote: »

Thats pretty straightforward Rob but the bottom line is these things make you unhappy you say. Me I can take these things or leave them.

Doesn't make me unhappy as I don't watch telly.

However, it's interesting that you imply that principles mean nothing to you, then. Fair enough. I'm glad that there are people out there who do have principles and who do care about them.

magicbastarder · 09-04-2015 12:58PM

does RTE have any viewing figures for the angelus?

rughdh · 09-04-2015 01:56PM

Sam Kade wrote: »

It's only a minute ffs, who watches rte at 6pm anyway?

But when we do it for all religions it'll be several hours. They'll all want their minute and there's hundreds of 'em.

Zamboni · 09-04-2015 02:19PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

does RTE have any viewing figures for the angelus?

There is a wikipedia reference to 380,000 but the original source on RTE website is out of date but I think any record would be disingenuous considering people are actually tuning into watch the news.

Jimmy Bottlehead · 09-04-2015 02:20PM

realdanbreen wrote: »

Plucked it from my butt TBH but I'm not too far off the mark I'd say.Fact is a tiny proportion of the populatio of Ireland are atheist.

Am I the only one who has difficulty even listening to the opinions of someone who literally makes up statistics?

magicbastarder · 09-04-2015 02:22PM

i wonder how the viewing figures of the angelus changed as remote controls for TVs became more common.

shruikan2553 · 09-04-2015 02:42PM

realdanbreen wrote: »

Why are atheists so preoccuppied with how Catholics are adhering to their faith?

I love when this line gets pulled out. It's as if the Catholics are just sitting their minding their business and all of a sudden the big mean atheists break down the door to attack them. Catholics never expect people to follow the rules.

Does nobody wonder why Sikhs or Buddhists are rarely talked about?

silverharp · 09-04-2015 02:54PM

realdanbreen wrote: »

Why are atheists so preoccuppied with how Catholics are adhering to their faith?

Because as practiced or affirmed by Catholics is mostly a joke. I have yet to go to a wedding where the "Catholic"couples weren't living together first. Contraception usage is across the board. Mass attendance is dismal, yet we have a school system that assumes most kids are good Catholics when the parents clearly aren't.

realdanbreen · 09-04-2015 02:57PM

silverharp wrote: »

Because as practiced or affirmed by Catholics is mostly a joke. I have yet to go to a wedding where the "Catholic"couples weren't living together first. Contraception usage is across the board. Mass attendance is dismal, yet we have a school system that assumes most kids are good Catholics when the parents clearly aren't.

Why not set up a school for atheists then ? There certainly would'nt be a problem with class sizes.

silverharp · 09-04-2015 03:04PM

realdanbreen wrote: »

Why not set up a school for atheists then ? There certainly would'nt be a problem with class sizes.

Because it wouldn't be legal for starters

rughdh · 09-04-2015 03:05PM

realdanbreen wrote: »

But you are living in a country that is 96% Christian. Are you suggesting the 1% that are non believers should dictate to the rest of the country?

Stats accuracy aside. That's a majoritarianist attitude. Most of us don't want to marry someone of the same gender, but it doesn't mean it's OK to deny those who do the same right that we've always had, (whether we've wanted it or not).

pauldla · 09-04-2015 03:43PM

Reading this thread has given me the Angelus as an ear worm.

robindch · 09-04-2015 03:48PM

pauldla wrote: »

Reading this thread has given me the Angelus as an ear worm.

Antidote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPRdfhkonJI

pauldla · 09-04-2015 04:29PM

No VPN right now, rob. One gets a very limited internet experience in this part of the world.

(DONG-DONG-DONG)

Pherekydes · 09-04-2015 05:24PM

realdanbreen wrote: »

Plucked it from my butt TBH but I'm not too far off the mark I'd say.Fact is a tiny proportion of the populatio of Ireland are atheist.

Without looking, around 7% identify as having no religion, being atheist or agnostic. This isn't even counting those who identify (on the census) as being catholic but don't believe in god.

The true figure for atheists in Ireland is likely closer to 30%.

Kidchameleon · 09-04-2015 05:42PM

Good points rob.

Why scrap it though? Would it not be more fair on everyone to modernise it? Midfulness minute perhaps?

NamelessPhil · 09-04-2015 08:07PM

The angelus in my house means that it's time for my 5 year old to go to Guides or she'll be late. (The fact that Guides has a strong religious aspect is another argument.)

She's not baptised and explaining zombie Jesus has been great fun over Easter.

magicbastarder · 09-04-2015 08:11PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Would it not be more fair on everyone to modernise it?

how about 'the angelus (fatboy slim get off your knees mix)'.
which, admittedly, is not *that* modern.

Cabaal · 09-04-2015 08:20PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Good points rob.

Why scrap it though? Would it not be more fair on everyone to modernise it? Midfulness minute perhaps?

A minutes silence with no bells or religious icons and just pictures of peaceful countryside around our country, its the fairest way to everyone.
If you believe in a god then you are looking at gods creations, isn't that good enough?

For some reason I think the removal of the bells is the sticking point, not what pictures are shown.
People will claim its a moment of reflection and silence, thats a con. If you need bells to reflect or be peaceful then you've something wrong with you.

magicbastarder · 09-04-2015 08:27PM

sure even the catholics have had issues with the angelus; nearly 20 years ago, a guy i knew in college brought in a circular which was dropped in his parent's letterbox whose main concern was the fact that RTE had used a picture of the virgin mary portrayed as a hopi native american, and apparently this was sacrilege on a grand scale. because she was obviously a white northern european caucasian.

Cabaal · 09-04-2015 08:33PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

sure even the catholics have had issues with the angelus; nearly 20 years ago, a guy i knew in college brought in a circular which was dropped in his parent's letterbox whose main concern was the fact that RTE had used a picture of the virgin mary portrayed as a hopi native american, and apparently this was sacrilege on a grand scale. because she was obviously a white northern european caucasian.

Thats as offensive as the idea that Jesus was black to many Christians (didn't Madonna upset alot of people doing that in a music video?),

A chance to scrap the Angelus - Nutella, Croissants and Pineapples.

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