Bus Strike (read warning in post #1)

end of the road · 03-04-2015 1:44pm

Icepick wrote: »

Lots of that should be outsourced to private companies.

no it shouldn't. why should it. just for the sake of it? no . having all that in house provides economies of scale.

Icepick wrote: »

It also sounds like a lot of duplication is going on across the garages. They can't even run their core business properly and they reckon they can do the other stuff?

what are you on about. maintenence staff and other similar staff will have to be duplicated. you think that private companies with multiple depots don't do the same?

Icepick wrote: »

Canteen and cleaners, really?

yes. what of it? i'm sure some private companies provide those services to their staff.

end of the road · 03-04-2015 1:47pm

Icepick wrote: »

We need to compare the ratio with private companies and other public bus services in the EU then.

we don't. different set ups will have their systems to their needs

end of the road · 03-04-2015 1:50pm

stehyl15 wrote: »

If Dublin Bus do go on strike like in Italy why can't they at least have certain services guaranteed in case of strike and have these marked into timetables it is a disgrace that there will be no service whatsoever when it is an essential service that must be provided no matter what

its not. the whole point of a strike is to down tools. no point in guaranteeing certain or any services during a strike. its an essential service hence it must be kept in public hands

stehyl15 · 03-04-2015 2:00pm

end of the road wrote: »

its not. the whole point of a strike is to down tools. no point in guaranteeing certain or any services during a strike. its an essential service hence it must be kept in public hands

First of all of course a strike is going to cause some disruption but it dosent have to mean completly no service secondly bus services will be kept in public the NTA still own the routes private companies will be operating them on behalf of the NTA

end of the road · 03-04-2015 2:03pm

stehyl15 wrote: »

First of all of course a strike is going to cause some disruption but it dosent have to mean completly no service

it does. or there is no point.

stehyl15 wrote: »

secondly bus services will be kept in public the NTA still own the routes private companies will be operating them on behalf of the NTA

thats not good enough. it must be kept fully in public hands. controlled publically, ran by a public company

n97 mini · 03-04-2015 2:25pm

If DB goes on strike presumably if there were sufficient gonads in the NTA they could hire in private contractors to take up some of the slack? Bit like Ronald Reagan and the air traffic controllers.

end of the road · 03-04-2015 2:35pm

n97 mini wrote: »

If DB goes on strike presumably if there were sufficient gonads in the NTA they could hire in private contractors to take up some of the slack? Bit like Ronald Reagan and the air traffic controllers.

where is the money going to come from, or the contractors. mind you if it happened, i would hope the union would do what is necessary to ensure no service remained for the duration of the strike. a huge difference between a bus strike and an extremist like Ronald Reagan by the way

stehyl15 · 03-04-2015 4:24pm

end of the road wrote: »

it does. or there is no point.

Another good way is for drivers to drive their buses into town at rush hour and park them all up in middle of the street and blocking traffic can get in or out for about two hours a very distruptive way of getting your point across

Tugboats · 03-04-2015 4:32pm

The Irish:o

Outraged when their fellow citizens like ordinary bus drivers or whoever are trying to protect their income and jobs. They roll out the Im a taxpayer line

The same "outraged" taxpayers have bent over for Bankers,Politicians, property and water charges and EU bullies.

The Irish:D:o

stehyl15 · 03-04-2015 4:45pm

Tugboats wrote: »

The Irish:o

Outraged when their fellow citizens like ordinary bus drivers or whoever are trying to protect their income and jobs. They roll out the Im a taxpayer line

And you seem to forget theres plenty of people sitting on the dole who'd love to be getting 30k a year to drive a bus. Unions are the plague of public transport tbh look at France, Italy and Spain even Germany have some of the best railway infustructure in the world all ruined by unions going on strike

stehyl15 · 03-04-2015 4:52pm

Dublin bus could do a Greyhound on it and hire in cheap labour while its drivers were on strike

Tugboats · 03-04-2015 4:55pm

stehyl15 wrote: »

And you seem to forget theres plenty of people sitting on the dole who'd love to be getting 30k a year to drive a bus. Unions are the plague of public transport tbh look at France, Italy and Spain even Germany have some of the best railway infustructure in the world all ruined by unions going on strike

Another example of the typical Irish attitude playing the dole card now!

stehyl15 · 03-04-2015 5:29pm

Tugboats wrote: »

Another example of the typical Irish attitude playing the dole card now!

Just because its streotype dosent mean it isint true

Tugboats · 03-04-2015 5:39pm

stehyl15 wrote: »

Just because its streotype dosent mean it isint true

They should be greatful for their jobs.:o

You're a politicians wet dream. Have a few pints at the weekend, put a bet on in paddy power and blame ordinary citizens.

As someone who doesn't work in the public sector and earns 75k per year I have no issue with a worker or its representatives trying to protect or better what they have.

Now run along and educate yourself about what's really going on in this country.

stehyl15 · 03-04-2015 5:49pm

Tugboats wrote: »

They should be greatful for their jobs.:o

You're a politicians wet dream. Have a few pints at the weekend, put a bet on in paddy power and blame ordinary citizens.

As someone who doesn't work in the public sector and earns 75k per year I have no issue with a worker or its representatives trying to protect or better what they have.

Now run along and educate yourself about what's really going on in this country.

30k a year for driving a bus its not exactly rocket science bus driving is a job I wouldnt rate too much higher than minimum wage also if you were a regular dublin bus user youd probably think differantly

Tugboats · 03-04-2015 5:55pm

stehyl15 wrote: »

30k a year for driving a bus its not exactly rocket science bus driving is a job I wouldnt rate too much higher than minimum wage

And the Irish attitude of begrudgery continues

cdebru · 03-04-2015 6:15pm

stehyl15 wrote: »

Just because its streotype dosent mean it isint true

It isn't true though look at how long it has taken to hire the drivers they are currently looking for and the ad is still up on the website, 400,000 people unemployed and they took over a year to find 100 drivers but you think there is a queue of 2000 out there waiting to work for less.

Icepick · 03-04-2015 6:16pm

cdebru wrote: »

The last government did that already and it said its staffing levels were in line with similar companies in other jurisdictions.

And FF are known for impartial and true info about the impact of their governance :rolleyes:

Icepick · 03-04-2015 6:18pm

end of the road wrote: »

no it shouldn't. why should it. just for the sake of it? no . having all that in house provides economies of scale.

Focusing on non-core business provides the exact opposite.
Private companies would be able to provide the same service cheaper.

Icepick · 03-04-2015 6:19pm

Tugboats wrote: »

The Irish:o

Outraged when their fellow citizens like ordinary bus drivers or whoever are trying to protect their income and jobs. They roll out the Im a taxpayer line

The same "outraged" taxpayers have bent over for Bankers,Politicians, property and water charges and EU bullies.

The Irish:D:o

How dare people decide how their money is spent, or even comment on it!
That's for the adults in the public service to decide...

cdebru · 03-04-2015 6:21pm

stehyl15 wrote: »

30k a year for driving a bus its not exactly rocket science bus driving is a job I wouldnt rate too much higher than minimum wage also if you were a regular dublin bus user youd probably think differantly

City bus driving is actually one of the most difficult driving jobs there is, driving a large vehicle with up to 130 passengers none of them restrained with seat belts, young children, old people, people standing, walking go up and down stairs, working shifts, weekends, bank holidays, but good luck with finding 2200 people who will do it for minimum wage.

PS if you are going to denigrate other peoples intelligence and work at least learn to spell, good lad ;-)

cdebru · 03-04-2015 6:25pm

Icepick wrote: »

And FF are known for impartial and true info about the impact of their governance :rolleyes:

Wouldn't be a fan of theirs either but, I remember the state of our public transport the last time we had a government with FG and the party of Connolly, the one and only Michael Lowry running the subsidy down to virtually zero, and it took years to recover from that and massive investment which in fairness to the FFailures they at least did.

Tugboats · 03-04-2015 6:30pm

Icepick wrote: »

How dare people decide how their money are spent, or even comment on it!
That's for the adults in the public service to decide...

Do you not find it strange that taxpayers get worked up over the wage of a bus driver but have no real issue with millions spent on politicians, banks, paying a tax for the home you own and paying for water you can't drink?

Will Irish people ever stick together and deal with real issues?

n97 mini · 03-04-2015 6:32pm

cdebru wrote: »

City bus driving is actually one of the most difficult driving jobs there is

So we get told anyway.

Icepick · 03-04-2015 6:43pm

Tugboats wrote: »

Do you not find it strange that taxpayers get worked up over the wage of a bus driver but have no real issue with millions spent on politicians, banks, paying a tax for the home you own and paying for water you can't drink?

Will Irish people ever stick together and deal with real issues?

Oireachtas - €101 million (2013)
CIE subsidy - €240 million (2014)

People with boil notices don't actually have to pay.

stehyl15 · 03-04-2015 6:44pm

cdebru wrote: »

good luck finding 2200 people who will do it for minimum wage.

You could always go to Pakistan and get cheap labour to drive dublin buses for cheap

Tugboats · 03-04-2015 6:59pm

Icepick wrote: »

Oireachtas - €101 million (2013)
CIE subsidy - €240 million (2014).

Don't understand your point? Are we doing anything to reduce the millions spent on politicians?
If you think Irish water is drinkable I don't know what to say. No boil notice where I am and I wouldn't touch it

Tugboats · 03-04-2015 7:11pm

stehyl15 wrote: »

You could always go to Pakistan and get cheap labour to drive dublin buses for cheap

Should we bring over 2 million Pakistanis to do every job in the country?

cdebru · 03-04-2015 7:14pm

n97 mini wrote: »

So we get told anyway.

Try it if you don't believe me ;-)

cdebru · 03-04-2015 7:16pm

stehyl15 wrote: »

You could always go to Pakistan and get cheap labour to drive dublin buses for cheap

Now you're just trolling, CPC , driving license ? I suppose we could carry more people on the roof as well just to further improve the cost efficiency like.

antoinolachtnai · 03-04-2015 8:32pm

end of the road wrote: »

thats not good enough. it must be kept fully in public hands. controlled publically, ran by a public company

It is in Directive 1370/2007 that the government must put all routes out to tender. It is the law. The government has no choice but to put routes out to tender.

punisher5112 · 03-04-2015 8:35pm

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQfL2mMKR6kgYuAqev_CQbdKxxGqicr5rUnw_hUaIz4DY7YWisyOg

Thats what I think of all the rubbish about privatize everything.

n97 mini · 03-04-2015 8:38pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Thats what I think of all the rubbish about privatize everything.

Quality posts coming out now. Next thing we'll be told nationalising everything is the only way.

Icepick · 03-04-2015 8:39pm

Tugboats wrote: »

Don't understand your point? Are we doing anything to reduce the millions spent on politicians?

yes
it was 120 in 2011

Icepick · 03-04-2015 8:40pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Thats what I think of all the rubbish about privatize everything.

who said privatize everything?
And can you back up your opinion with anything?

punisher5112 · 03-04-2015 8:41pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Quality posts coming out now. Next thing we'll be told nationalising everything is the only way.

Sorry thought needed some colour as it's getting very dark in here.

Irish should be holding on to as much Irish traditions companies etc..

Aer Lingus should never have been sold.

n97 mini · 03-04-2015 8:56pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Sorry thought needed some colour as it's getting very dark in here.

Irish should be holding on to as much Irish traditions companies etc..

Aer Lingus should never have been sold.

Why not? The paddy whackery value, begorrah? Ryanair is plenty to be proud of. Who would have thought an Irish airline would have surpassed British Airways, Lufthansa, etc.

stehyl15 · 03-04-2015 9:24pm

Its an EU regulation that buses have to be tendered there is no other EU country where buses and trains all come under the one roof which is CIE

Tugboats · 03-04-2015 9:35pm

stehyl15 wrote: »

Its an EU regulation that buses have to be tendered there is no other EU country where buses and trains all come under the one roof which is CIE

Pandering to the EU to make a point

VWD8 · 03-04-2015 10:44pm

stehyl15 wrote: »

Its an EU regulation that buses have to be tendered there is no other EU country where buses and trains all come under the one roof which is CIE

Northern Ireland?

cdebru · 03-04-2015 11:42pm

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

It is in Directive 1370/2007 that the government must put all routes out to tender. It is the law. The government has no choice but to put routes out to tender.

Its funny how the EU take the rap on everything in this country, water charges, its the EU, septic tanks, its the EU, turf cutting, its the EU, do the Irish government have no say in EU directives ? Also oddly enough the Irish government can blindly ignore EU rules when it doesn't suit them, no import duties on cars, eh no its a tax on registering the car, doctors and the 48 hour week eh no thanks.

Anyway the issue is not privatisation oops sorry "tendering" the issue is how you deal with it and manage it and ensure we don't end up in a race to the bottom in terms and conditions and pensions of employees, I know driving a bus is so easy you can train monkeys to do it, but while we are awaiting the couple of thousand monkeys to arrive we need to ensure the standards of driving and safety that Dublin Bus currently has are not lost.

There are ways to do that by the NTA setting minimum standards in terms and conditions and pension rights for any company tendering for routes, that is allowed under the EU directive ;-)

stehyl15 · 03-04-2015 11:56pm

VWD8 wrote: »

Northern Ireland?

Translink is just a small fraction of the the various UK operators did you forget Northern Ireland is part of the UK

stehyl15 · 04-04-2015 12:54am

People here who are against privatisation seem to forget that the luas a very good system who pay their workers very well might I add is private if their is a strike Dublin Bus as a loss making serice will be the biggest winners winners in my eyes as it will be a few days where they dont have to pay wages or diesel.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime · 04-04-2015 1:50am

stehyl15 wrote: »

People here who are against privatisation seem to forget that the luas a very good system who pay their workers very well might I add is private if their is a strike Dublin Bus as a loss making serice will be the biggest winners winners in my eyes as it will be a few days where they dont have to pay wages or diesel.

It is reported Dublin bus made 500,000 profit last i heard. Source on the Independent paper.

And as for luas being fantastic ? er no, they were going for industrial action too over working conditions. quote below from another boards thread where you will find all the relevant details.

Also lets not forget the strike(s) that went on in London with the beloved TFL model over pay and conditions recently.

travis.bickle wrote: »

Luas Drivers yesterday overwhelmingly rejected a Labour Court Recommendation and will now ballot its members for Industrial Action.

Drivers are seeking parity with other Safety Critical staff who recently received 23 extra rest days and maximum 8 hour shifts.

Drivers currently work 9 hour shifts in what is considered an extremely stressful working environment.

Veolia Transdev the French multinational who operate the Luas lightrail system for the RPA claim they do not have the funds to meet the 160+ drivers demands and have offered half the rest days (10) but will not reduce the shift times.

Tram drivers who are represented by SIPTU yesterday overwhelmingly rejected a Labour Court Recommendation by 91%.

SIPTU will now ballot members next week on Industrial Action which looks likely to lead to Strike Action.

Veolia Transdev and the RPA have been making a profit on an annual basis for the past ten years for what is deemed the most efficient public transport service in the country.
Veolia workers are the lowest paid workers in the transport system here in Ireland and work longer hours than other public transport workers. All other public transport systems in Dublin finish by 2330hrs, whereas the Luas operates after 0030hrs every week night.
The Luas is also the most expensive form of public transport in the Dublin City Area.

I particularly like the part in the news report where it says the company makes a profit all the time but yet the workers are doing dangerous hours and are paid badly. It shows that privatization could also go that way leading to more strikes just like in Greyhound.

Tugboats · 04-04-2015 1:52am

stehyl15 wrote: »

People here who are against privatisation seem to forget that the luas a very good system who pay their workers very well might I add is private if their is a strike Dublin Bus as a loss making serice will be the biggest winners winners in my eyes as it will be a few days where they dont have to pay wages or diesel.

Should the Luas replace their drivers with Pakistanis?

devnull · 04-04-2015 8:01am

cdebru wrote: »

Anyway the issue is not privatisation oops sorry "tendering" the issue is how you....

Deliver the best level of PUBLIC SERVICE to the PUBLIC.

However, the fact that a PUBLIC SERVICE exists to serve the PUBLIC rarely seems to get a look in or consideration here.

cdebru · 04-04-2015 9:10am

devnull wrote: »

Deliver the best level of PUBLIC SERVICE to the PUBLIC.

However, the fact that a PUBLIC SERVICE exists to serve the PUBLIC rarely seems to get a look in or consideration here.

Slavery seems to be a good model, with minimal wage costs, since you couldn't give a flying **** about anyone as long as you're alright. Public service doesn't mean the only concern is the public, staff still have to be treated properly and paid properly, unless you think its s good idea to have unhappy, poorly paid people driving you around ?

cdebru · 04-04-2015 9:27am

n97 mini wrote: »

Why not? The paddy whackery value, begorrah? Ryanair is plenty to be proud of. Who would have thought an Irish airline would have surpassed British Airways, Lufthansa, etc.

I wouldn't be proud of Ryanair they have a long history of treating staff and customers abysmally.

cdebru · 04-04-2015 9:34am

Icepick wrote: »

And FF are known for impartial and true info about the impact of their governance :rolleyes:

BTW FF didn't write the report the then minister for transport commissioned it, because of the firmly held believe DB and BE were inefficient and wasting money, Deloitte did the report, and it found that DB costs and efficiency were in line with industry norms, including its back office operations. You should read it, might open your mind a little.

Icepick · 04-04-2015 9:56am

cdebru wrote: »

BTW FF didn't write the report the then minister for transport commissioned it, because of the firmly held believe DB and BE were inefficient and wasting money, Deloitte did the report, and it found that DB costs and efficiency were in line with industry norms, including its back office operations. You should read it, might open your mind a little.

where is it?

Bus Strike (read warning in post #1)

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