Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

TheDoc · 23-02-2015 02:51PM

zerks wrote: »

More problems for Strootman,doubt we'll take a chance on him now.His latest surgery didn't go as well as planned.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/feb/23/kevin-strootman-surgery-roma-former-doctor-manchester-united-target

Sincerely hope he can make a return to football and reach the levels he was on the trajectory for. Not so much from the selfish view of signing for us, but because I love the type of midfielder he is. A rare breed, and we will miss out on a true spectacle if he can't come back to football.

Pro. F · 23-02-2015 02:51PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Sack LVG :rolleyes:

We've been playing unimpressive football for three years under three managers now. We can't keep cycling through managers until one gets it to click. We need to work on what the common factors are within the poor performances over the 3 year period and replace them.

Reality is if LVG goes in the summer, we start from scratch with a new system, start with a new team of backroom staff who want completely new types of players, while also having to "assess" what's currently there.

Short of an utter implosion which sees us back down to 7th, I really do think the club needs to keep the manager and let him dump the tools that three different managers have struggled with.

There's no way you can lump Fergie's last season in with the rubbish that Moyes and Van Gaal have produced. The quality of football he had the team playing was incomparably better than what has come after.

TheDoc · 23-02-2015 02:59PM

Pro. F wrote: »

There's no way you can lump Fergie's last season in with the rubbish that Moyes and Van Gaal have produced. The quality of football he had the team playing was incomparably better than what has come after.

The competition was non-existent though. We won the league at a canter with not what I'd regard a stellar team, and Chelsea and City were in turmoil.

While it wasn't as bad as this season and last, the last two seasons under Ferguson saw some obscure results and performances. You could argue that maybe the "fear factor" was long on the wain before Fergie left. Then again, we were always suspect to a weird defeat here and there under Fergie.

I think there is sometimes way too much drama and over exaggeration put on the "title winning team went to 7th". It wasn't a brilliant team, it was a functioning team that took advantage of pretty much no competition from City and Chelsea and was possibly a brilliant last reminder of how good Ferguson actually was. I get the feeling people are looking back with a bit of rose tinted glasses on that final season. We had some poor results and poor performances, and the narrative through nearly the entire second half of the season was every second podcast and paper running the " Is this Fergies worst ever title winning side?" and then comparative lists. So obvious was it we were going to win the league, but also obvious was how there was glaring issues in that squad.

Polo_Mint · 23-02-2015 03:00PM

Was there any news on Summer Tours this year

Id like to see a summer of Early selling , Early buying, Daily training and local touring.

Instead we will get no one wanting to buy any of our players unless dirt cheap, Nobody wanting to sign unless offers a billion. Summer Holidays for all and tour the world with the muck we have so they can get injured.

bangkok · 23-02-2015 03:03PM

bullvine wrote: »

That will leave us with less than last season? It could easily happen.

yea well being honest,

Liverpool away I would take a draw now but think we will lose,

man city home again we will have no answer to yaya toure, silva and aguero/bony

Chelsea away could be an embarrassment

everton away we seem to struggle there last few years

bangkok · 23-02-2015 03:06PM

Polo_Mint wrote: »

Was there any news on Summer Tours this year

Id like to see a summer of Early selling , Early buying, Daily training and local touring.

Instead we will get no one wanting to buy any of our players unless dirt cheap, Nobody wanting to sign unless offers a billion. Summer Holidays for all and tour the world with the muck we have so they can get injured.

shirt sales wouldn't be great around Bolton, Rochdale or Oldham..

Giggsy11 · 23-02-2015 03:06PM

Pro. F wrote: »

There's no way you can lump Fergie's last season in with the rubbish that Moyes and Van Gaal have produced. The quality of football he had the team playing was incomparably better than what has come after.

Exactly, people forgot how relentless our attack was in all Fergie years. In his last season every time we were goal down, team still believed we could go on and win it.

Draw back was we didn't control games often, we just attacked the opponents.

Mitch Connor · 23-02-2015 03:14PM

Polo_Mint wrote: »

Was there any news on Summer Tours this year

Id like to see a summer of Early selling , Early buying, Daily training and local touring.

Instead we will get no one wanting to buy any of our players unless dirt cheap, Nobody wanting to sign unless offers a billion. Summer Holidays for all and tour the world with the muck we have so they can get injured.

US again - but apparently it is going to be 3 games on one coast. RI or UWS, I think, stated that was the compromise that has been reached.

TheDoc · 23-02-2015 03:22PM

bangkok wrote: »

shirt sales wouldn't be great around Bolton, Rochdale or Oldham..

I'd advocate the club should meet Van Gaals demands if he feels it will enable him to mount a title challenge etc.

I'm sure we have all seen the twitter posts and various stuff about fans in the states and Asia one minute banging on about United then six months later sporting their new City kit. We already have a dominant market share in those regions.

And when your looking to set the stable brand in countries like that its more important to be winning. As shown by the outragous supporter hoping that goes on in the states and Asia relating to the premier league.

Pro. F · 23-02-2015 03:28PM

TheDoc wrote: »

The competition was non-existent though. We won the league at a canter with not what I'd regard a stellar team, and Chelsea and City were in turmoil.

While it wasn't as bad as this season and last, the last two seasons under Ferguson saw some obscure results and performances. You could argue that maybe the "fear factor" was long on the wain before Fergie left. Then again, we were always suspect to a weird defeat here and there under Fergie.

I think there is sometimes way too much drama and over exaggeration put on the "title winning team went to 7th". It wasn't a brilliant team, it was a functioning team that took advantage of pretty much no competition from City and Chelsea and was possibly a brilliant last reminder of how good Ferguson actually was. I get the feeling people are looking back with a bit of rose tinted glasses on that final season. We had some poor results and poor performances, and the narrative through nearly the entire second half of the season was every second podcast and paper running the " Is this Fergies worst ever title winning side?" and then comparative lists. So obvious was it we were going to win the league, but also obvious was how there was glaring issues in that squad.

We finished on 89 points in Fergie's last two seasons, that beats or equals the winning totals in 14 out of the other 20 seasons of the PL. It doesn't matter if Chelsea and City had poor seasons, we still finished with an excellent points total in Fergie's last season. How many poor results did we really have if we were achieving points totals like that?

And ignoring the excellent results that Fergie got in his last season, the football he had the team playing was vastly superior to the mess that Moyes and LVG have served up. It's just madness to be portraying it otherwise. Sure there were problems, but they were in the context of wanting the team to play with a style that could dominate Europe, whereas now the problems are with wanting the team to play in a effective manner at all and to not keep resorting to hoof-ball.

bangkok · 23-02-2015 03:38PM

TheDoc wrote: »

I'd advocate the club should meet Van Gaals demands if he feels it will enable him to mount a title challenge etc.

I'm sure we have all seen the twitter posts and various stuff about fans in the states and Asia one minute banging on about United then six months later sporting their new City kit. We already have a dominant market share in those regions.

And when your looking to set the stable brand in countries like that its more important to be winning. As shown by the outragous supporter hoping that goes on in the states and Asia relating to the premier league.

but van gaal is only an employee of a monster corporation, the very reason we get so many sponsors etc is because we do such an extensive summer tour so fans can meet their idols. A major part of our income is merchandise. if we just decided to stop going and city/Chelsea/real Madrid etc start touring and we don't, we just fall away into the wilderness

Pro. F · 23-02-2015 03:39PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Exactly, people forgot how relentless our attack was in all Fergie years. In his last season every time we were goal down, team still believed we could go on and win it.

Draw back was we didn't control games often, we just attacked the opponents.

I think that lack of control is still going to be an issue if we get back into Europe tbh. LVG is focusing on retaining possession now and that might earn him some praise, but it's easy to do when most teams in the PL defend deep. Imo we still lack the quality required in that regard and so the control won't be there when it's properly tested.

bangkok · 23-02-2015 03:41PM

Pro. F wrote: »

We finished on 89 points in Fergie's last two seasons, that beats or equals the winning totals in 14 out of the other 19 seasons of the PL. It doesn't matter if Chelsea and City had poor seasons, we still finished with an excellent points total in Fergie's last season. How many poor results did we really have if we were achieving points totals like that?

And ignoring the excellent results that Fergie got in his last season, the football he had the team playing was vastly superior to the mess that Moyes and LVG have served up. It's just madness to be portraying it otherwise. Sure there were problems, but they were in the context of wanting the team to play with a style that could dominate Europe, whereas now the problems are with wanting the team to play in a effective manner at all and to not keep resorting to hoof-ball.

yea I don't get some of the fergie bashing, even when we played real Madrid in the bernabeu in fergies final season we had 11 shots, 6 which hit the target. This season have we played any game where we had 6 shots on target?

Bandana boy · 23-02-2015 03:42PM

intellectual dosser wrote: »

We can't expect to attract top managers if we develop a reputation for sacking them before they can complete one season.

EDIT: Apart from those looking for a payday.

mmmm if your big enough they will still line up for the job

Real

Vicente del Bosque Nov-99
Carlos Queiroz Jun-03
Camacho May-04
Remon Sep-04
Luxemburgo Dec-04
Juan Ramon Lopez Caro Dec-05
Capello Jul-06
Schuster Jul-07
Ramos Dec-08
Pellegrini Jun-09
Mourinho May-10
Ancelotti Jun-13

Chelsea
Vialli Feb-98
Ranieri Sep-00
Mourinho Jun-04
Grant Sep-07
Scolari Jul-08
Hiddink Feb-09
Ancelotti Jul-09
Villa Boas Jun-11
Di Matteo Mar-12
Benitez Nov-12
Mourinho Jun-13

Rayne Wooney · 23-02-2015 03:50PM

Pro. F wrote: »

We finished on 89 points in Fergie's last two seasons, that beats or equals the winning totals in 14 out of the other 19 seasons of the PL. It doesn't matter if Chelsea and City had poor seasons, we still finished with an excellent points total in Fergie's last season. How many poor results did we really have if we were achieving points totals like that?

And ignoring the excellent results that Fergie got in his last season, the football he had the team playing was vastly superior to the mess that Moyes and LVG have served up. It's just madness to be portraying it otherwise. Sure there were problems, but they were in the context of wanting the team to play with a style that could dominate Europe, whereas now the problems are with wanting the team to play in a effective manner at all and to not keep resorting to hoof-ball.

I don't think it was staggeringly superior, it was superior to an extent but the main thing was the system had a purpose that it achieved even though it was hard to watch a lot of the time. Kind of like how I'd feel if I was a Chelsea fan about their system but Fergie had inferior players to Mourinho

bangkok · 23-02-2015 04:05PM

just going through liverpools fixtures there and then looking at ours, we really need them to slip up or we are in trouble for top 4, hopefully starting with a city win on sunday.

shadowcomplex · 23-02-2015 04:10PM

If we had Nani back in the morning Id love to see this team, Mata and Di Maria should be stars in our team, I think the problem may well be LVG, Diego Simone would have the below team cantering to Top 4 and playing good football

De Gea

Valencia

Smalling

Rojo

Shaw

Blind or Carrick

Nani

Herrera---Mata----Di Maria---

Rooney

adox · 23-02-2015 04:13PM

bangkok wrote: »

just going through liverpools fixtures there and then looking at ours, we really need them to slip up or we are in trouble for top 4, hopefully starting with a city win on sunday.

Again you are getting ahead of yourself. We arent at the stage where we "need" them to slip up. We are still ahead of them!!.

Also I think we will pick up more points against the bigger teams than many are predicting. Ironically it has been the lower placed teams that have beaten Utd well this season. Against the bigger teams they have either picked up point of been very narrowly been beaten.

bucketybuck · 23-02-2015 04:16PM

shadowcomplex wrote: »

If we had Nani back in the morning

I've long been an advocate for Nani, but the reality is that he would come back and just look as bad as everybody else. All these different formations and calls for player A instead of player B is just rearranging deckchairs on the titanic, until the manager can actually implement a viable style of play it doesn't matter what 11 we put on the field.

bangkok · 23-02-2015 04:18PM

adox wrote: »

Again you are getting ahead of yourself. We arent at the stage where we "need" them to slip up. We are still ahead of them!!.

Also I think we will pick up more points against the bigger teams than many are predicting. Ironically it has been the lower placed teams that have beaten Utd well this season. Against the bigger teams they have either picked up point of been very narrowly been beaten.

bigger teams as in city home, Chelsea away, Liverpool away, arsenal home, spurs home.... how many points you reckon we will get in those 5 games?

MythicalMadMan · 23-02-2015 04:18PM

ericzeking wrote: »

Considering Valencia is now almost fully converted to being a full back, and he's only a couple of months down the road with this I think he's been one of the positives from the season.

If we were relying on him as a right winger then I'd have him gone but as a Right full back, he is better than decent, strong, quick, good engine to get up and down, room to improve.

What use is his good engine getting up and down when he does nothing with the ball in an attacking sense. Unless he is forced to put a ball into the box he wont do it, just a pass backwards. Although his crossing is so woefull maybe the pass back is the % play.

Lord TSC · 23-02-2015 04:38PM

Pro. F wrote: »

There's no way you can lump Fergie's last season in with the rubbish that Moyes and Van Gaal have produced. The quality of football he had the team playing was incomparably better than what has come after.

Here's the thing; I distinctly remember many a poster on here complaining after every game in that season that we were really poor, that RVP was continually bailing us out, and that sooner or later, we'd be sunk; that if anything happened RVP, we were in serious trouble.

People look back now with rose-tinted glasses, but while the football in that year may have been cavalier, "We'll score 5 if you score 4", the general consensus at the time seemed to be that we were lucky that RVP won games on his own while the rest of the team struggled yet other teams around us all bombed horribly.

It wasn't as bad as Moyes, who basically ostracized the most important player from the season before and was a disaster of highest proportions. And it wasn't as bad as LVG since RVP's form meant we were getting wins. But the squad were playing at a really low level overall if we're being honest, and it certainly wasn't a level we should be aspiring to in terms of on pitch overall preformances.

bangkok · 23-02-2015 04:43PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Here's the thing; I distinctly remember many a poster on here complaining after every game in that season that we were really poor, that RVP was continually bailing us out, and that sooner or later, we'd be sunk; that if anything happened RVP, we were in serious trouble.

People look back now with rose-tinted glasses, but while the football in that year may have been cavalier, "We'll score 5 if you score 4", the general consensus at the time seemed to be that we were lucky that RVP won games on his own while the rest of the team struggled yet other teams around us all bombed horribly.

It wasn't as bad as Moyes, who basically ostracized the most important player from the season before and was a disaster of highest proportions. And it wasn't as bad as LVG since RVP's form meant we were getting wins. But the squad were playing at a really low level overall if we're being honest, and it certainly wasn't a level we should be aspiring to in terms of on pitch overall preformances.

we also had players scoring from all over the pitch that season, yes rvp was the main goal getter but rooney scored around 20, hernandez the same, kagawa 6, evra 4, evans 4, Rafael 3, giggs 5, nani 3, carrick 2, cleverly 4...cant say the same has been happening this year

Backstreet Moyes · 23-02-2015 04:46PM

bangkok wrote: »

bigger teams as in city home, Chelsea away, Liverpool away, arsenal home, spurs home.... how many points you reckon we will get in those 5 games?

10

Backstreet Moyes · 23-02-2015 04:47PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I've long been an advocate for Nani, but the reality is that he would come back and just look as bad as everybody else. All these different formations and calls for player A instead of player B is just rearranging deckchairs on the titanic, until the manager can actually implement a viable style of play it doesn't matter what 11 we put on the field.

The speed of Nani and Di Maria down each flank playing either side of Rooney would be great i think.

jayo26 · 23-02-2015 04:48PM

Some people have short memories with all this carry on with nani... Every one was wanting him gone and he was shipped out nani had 7 odd years to prob himself at united now he has a decent season in the 5th best league (if even that) in europ and he is the man we are missing.....
Its the same with Rooney everyone for years been shouting about him been succesor to Scholes and when he gets a run in midfield and the team is performing crap he is suddenly no good not able pass.
Everyone screaming for falcao to be put in team and when he gets in properly he don't do much so he is a big mistake.

Lord TSC · 23-02-2015 04:52PM

bangkok wrote: »

we also had players scoring from all over the pitch that season, yes rvp was the main goal getter but rooney scored around 20, hernandez the same, kagawa 6, evra 4, evans 4, Rafael 3, giggs 5, nani 3, carrick 2, cleverly 4...cant say the same has been happening this year

Checking, Rooney had 16 in all competitions, and Hernandez had 8. So 24 goals between them rather than the 20 each you were implying :P

And while our strikers might not be hitting form this season, we've still had Mata with 6, Herrera 5, DiMaria 5 and Fellaini with 4, with Smalling, Blind and Rojo also all registering goals with still plenty of games to play, so in fairness, we are scoring from all over the pitch (if anything, it's scary how our midfield is now probably one of our bigger dangers to other teams while our "world class" strikers flounder...)

hmmm · 23-02-2015 04:52PM

My uneducated view is that Van Gaal's key strengths over the years has been in assessing players, particularly young players, and figuring out where their best positions are. This skill has worked wonders at other clubs, where short term expectations were low - he has produced fabulous teams but it has taken time for them to gel.

The trouble for him at United is that he now has the ability to buy fabulous players at high prices - and the fans expect that he will immediately slot those players into their "normal" position. Instead he has been the Van Gaal of old, e.g. shifting Di Maria & Rooney around, playing Valencia & Young as wing-backs - in many ways he has been ignoring their previous form and treating them as young players with an attitude of "I don't care where you think your best position is, in time I'll figure that out." That's what leads to the unbalanced teams, and players being played in what looks like odd or unusual positions - and it's why he says that he still hasn't figured out his best team. Any manager could stick Di Maria in the center/wing with Rooney up front, but Van Gaal doesn't see it that way.

The question is whether he can have that time to do this sort of player development at a club like United? Personally I'm willing to give him at least another two years, despite the results - we need to lay proper foundations and put off short term performance for hopefully long term results.

adox · 23-02-2015 04:55PM

jayo26 wrote: »

Some people have short memories with all this carry on with nani... Every one was wanting him gone

That is simply not true.

adox · 23-02-2015 04:58PM

bangkok wrote: »

bigger teams as in city home, Chelsea away, Liverpool away, arsenal home, spurs home.... how many points you reckon we will get in those 5 games?

8-10 points at a guess.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

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