Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

Professional Griefer · 23-02-2015 01:07PM

kstand wrote: »

Anyone - let Giggs do it til the end of the season or even try and bring Fergie back down the stairs. And line up a big name then at the end of the season. Van gaal is nothing short of a bluffer.

And what if Giggs fails? **** him out asap and try the next fella?

homerjay2005 · 23-02-2015 01:10PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

That's my point on LVG. Look at that Inter vid (I know its preseason etc). One touch, movement, forward passing.

We have regressed alarmingly since that.

playing a very limited player like Daley Blind in midfield, along with our best striker is going to lead to this regression. put a winger who is afraid of his s*it to shoot or use his left leg and then Fellaini, one of the slowest players in the league along with the fact that our £60m signing is playing like Gabriel Obertan and youve got a complete mess in the final 3rd of the pitch.

Blind is no more than a squad player and a fine squad player at that, but the fact that he is our main center mid player this season, says alot. he is just another sideways passer of the ball.

we have the most possession in the entire league yet our chances created and passes forward is 10th/11th.

perhaps we are compensating for our poor defense by focusing on keeping hold of the ball in front of them without exposing ourselves.

Deiseboy01 · 23-02-2015 01:19PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

It's like it's being banged into the players' heads to never lose possession, how many times this season have we been outplayed but Van Gaal points to us having more possession post game as if it's a massive positive

Completely robotic system, rigid and predicable. We have so many creative players but they are bound to the awful system, like asking a computer to paint a master piece, it's going to be shít.

For me top 4 is Van Gaal's saving grace, if we don't get it we've gone a whole season without improving and some bizarre decisions from Louis. Giving him another season is relying on his reputation to turn it around, but did he ever have it as bad at Barca, Bayern and Ajax, didnt they play decent enough football before he came? He'll probably get another season regardless where we finish but I won't be happy with him staying at all if we miss out on CL again.

This to me is as close as anyone on here has come to the crux of the matter, and a view I share.

VG believes on the 'system', the cult of the manager. He does not believe in the player, well certainly not these players and as such is building a system designed to retain possession and limit risk.

Unlike Ferguson, who although he had a system or systems, focused on building self belief, an arrogance that said we will outplay you and a resiliance to bedrock that self belief. He over achieved at times because the self belief was immense and the willingness to take risks, to go for the win grew from that.

Now we have players lacking in confidence, unwilling to take risks, playing the system and the result is horribly stilted, lifeless football.

VG needs take the leash off, empower this group of players and get them to show their teeth.

Saying all of that the key issue still remains our defense, its extremely limited in all aspects and I will retain my faith in VG until he gets time to address those failings and create a proper foundation to allow us to become an exciting attacking force again.

The Moldy Gowl · 23-02-2015 01:21PM

I don't know what it is. Maye I'm delusional and an idiot.

But I can't get my head around thinking he is a spoofer and dosent know anything about the team. I'm all for critising the players, but to think lvg or any other manager out there dosent know what is going on, on the field is nothing short of licking windows.

He believes in his plan, does he have to tell all the armchair managers? Does he ****.

The players have just been ****e all season, I can see this, I can critise this aspect because this is the only snippet we see. But to thenmake up assumptions about things we know nothing about is stupid.

I can't logically try force myself to think like that.

intellectual dosser · 23-02-2015 01:36PM

We can't expect to attract top managers if we develop a reputation for sacking them before they can complete one season.

EDIT: Apart from those looking for a payday.

3hn2givr7mx1sc · 23-02-2015 01:38PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Hopefully, good on the ball and industrious. Seems to have a bit of bite about him and looks like he will adapt to the premier league really well. Doesn't seem adverse to taking a risk and his movement once he has played a pass is excellent. I don't see him being bullied about the league.

Didn't provide the width that Di Maria did for Shaw, but he's a central midfielder, I wouldn't want him constantly drifting wide.

I'd have him starting every game in some shape or form. Midfield would be preferable, obviously. But even from the right he has shown he can make an impact and has a good eye for goal. Can't understand why he fell out of favour with LvG.

keane2097 wrote: »

Did you stop posting for a while? Haven't noticed your username in ages.

Always lurking, rarely posting. Too busy to be getting involved with the immense amount of shítestorms here! The football also depresses me enough as is, without getting into big discussions about it.

bucketybuck · 23-02-2015 01:40PM

intellectual dosser wrote: »

We can't expect to attract top managers if we develop a reputation for sacking them before they can complete one season.

I have little interest in debating whether LVG should be sacked or not, but that is simply not a good enough reason to keep a manager who isn't doing the job.

intellectual dosser · 23-02-2015 01:44PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I have little interest in debating whether LVG should be sacked or not, but that is simply not a good enough reason to keep a manager who isn't doing the job.

True, I posted in addition to the other reasons already put forward.

Pro. F · 23-02-2015 01:52PM

duffman13 wrote: »

The scary thing is we've all been putting up our ideal line up since the start of the season, eventually LVG sticks that team out and it's no better than before.

We were screaming for an end to 3 at the back, then for Herrera in the team, then One of RVP or Falcao played with Rooney and now it's Rooney on his own. The team doesn't seem to play any better regardless of personnel.

I'd like to point out that from the start I was saying these narrow, two striker systems (352 and 442 diamond) wouldn't work with the players we have. Imo there's no big mystery as to why it isn't working, they aren't particularly good formations and they aren't suitable for the players we have.

TheDoc · 23-02-2015 01:53PM

I think if the Van Persie injury ends up being lengthy, even two games, it might provide a chance to really nail things down. There has been too many problem areas this season and the front 2 have been one of the big ones.

If he is out for a few games, Rooney will automatically move up front, paired with Wilson or Falcao. That provides more options on the midfield now. Rooney was a nailed on started, Di Maria is nailed on and Blind was always going to sit at the base in the absence of Carrick. That left one spot on the right for Fellaini, Mata, Herrera and Januzaj to fight for. Moving Rooney up front, now essentially opens up the no.10 and right side up.

It might just force Van Gaal's hand into some formations and selection, that might turn out to be the ticket. Aslong as we get some consistency for a few games. I'm not a big fan of the chopping and changing. I think with no CL this season it was an opportunity to play a best first 11 throughout, rotating for tiredness and injury. Granted the injury crisis first half of the season disrupted that, we are still flutting about with settling on the first 11.

When your fighting on four fronts you can play the "squad" game, but I think we havn't harnessed the advantage of playing week to week, but a bit too much tinkering.

While I was disappointed in the result at the weekend, my initial reaction was things looked a bit more positive, a bit quicker, and a bit more dangerous. Maybe if we can string the same front 6 together for a few games there might be some cohesion and understanding developed.

Polo_Mint · 23-02-2015 02:02PM

Predictions for the run in

Sunderland (H) Win
Newcastle (A) Win
Tottenham ( H) Draw
Liverpool (A) Draw

Aston Villa (H) Win
Man City (H) Lose
Chelsea (A) Lose
Evertonv ( A ) Win

West Brom (H) Win
Crystal Palace (A) Win
Arsenal ( H) Draw
Hull ( A ) Win

bullvine · 23-02-2015 02:06PM

Polo_Mint wrote: »

Predictions for the run in

Sunderland (H) Win
Newcastle (A) Win
Tottenham ( H) Draw
Liverpool (A) Draw

Aston Villa (H) Win
Man City (H) Lose
Chelsea (A) Lose
Evertonv ( A ) Win

West Brom (H) Win
Crystal Palace (A) Win
Arsenal ( H) Draw
Hull ( A ) Win

I think we'll beat arse, draw with City, lose to pool

Schism · 23-02-2015 02:08PM

kstand wrote: »

Van Gaal. But I wouldn't even wait that long - I'd give him his papers right now.

Why sack him now though?

There are 12 games left, the team still have to face Spurs, Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Everton (regardless of form it'll be a tough game) and Arsenal. Now add in the games against Villa, Palace, Hull and West Brom who all might well be fighting for their lives at the time.

That's a pretty serious run in, surely there's more of a chance to get results without the upheaval of changing management. Any new manager now would come in with the same likely remit as LVG - get Champions League football next year, but would have to do so while starting a new job and getting to know the players etc. Unless the club promoted from within, do you think Giggs would do any better?

It doesn't make sense to sack the man now and I don't think he will be. There's been such an investment in his regime that I don't think the club would throw that away when realistically, even though the team is under performing, they're not in a hopeless position and while they almost certainly won't win the league there's still a fighting chance of getting a CL place.

secman · 23-02-2015 02:09PM

slingerz wrote: »

I genuinely think that if United were to let Phil Jones/Chris Smalling go that it would be a massive error tbh. The current United system/setup does nothing to help provide them with any protection or cover. If they played for Chelsea they would have Matic in front of them for instance. At United, its Fellani or Blind, neither of whom are 'defensive' centre midfielders tbh

They would not get a game for Chelsea, Man City, they wouldn't improve Arsenal, Liverpool or Spurs

bangkok · 23-02-2015 02:10PM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

I don't know what it is. Maye I'm delusional and an idiot.

But I can't get my head around thinking he is a spoofer and dosent know anything about the team. I'm all for critising the players, but to think lvg or any other manager out there dosent know what is going on, on the field is nothing short of licking windows.

He believes in his plan, does he have to tell all the armchair managers? Does he ****.

The players have just been ****e all season, I can see this, I can critise this aspect because this is the only snippet we see. But to thenmake up assumptions about things we know nothing about is stupid.

I can't logically try force myself to think like that.

well he is in the job 7 months now and only last week stated he didn't know his best team... that has to be a worry.

the players have been **** as he has them playing that way and its the manager than is putting rooney in midfield, its the manager playing Valencia, and its the manager who had di maria up front. it is also the manager that throws fellaini up front and we launch high balls up to him. this is all van gaals doing

Rayne Wooney · 23-02-2015 02:14PM

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

This to me is as close as anyone on here has come to the crux of the matter, and a view I share.

VG believes on the 'system', the cult of the manager. He does not believe in the player, well certainly not these players and as such is building a system designed to retain possession and limit risk.

Unlike Ferguson, who although he had a system or systems, focused on building self belief, an arrogance that said we will outplay you and a resiliance to bedrock that self belief. He over achieved at times because the self belief was immense and the willingness to take risks, to go for the win grew from that.

Now we have players lacking in confidence, unwilling to take risks, playing the system and the result is horribly stilted, lifeless football.

VG needs take the leash off, empower this group of players and get them to show their teeth.

Saying all of that the key issue still remains our defense, its extremely limited in all aspects and I will retain my faith in VG until he gets time to address those failings and create a proper foundation to allow us to become an exciting attacking force again.

Spurs and Liverpool defences are just as bad as ours, the difference being their managers play a decent system that lets them outscore their opponent, I can't excuse Van Gaal for the defence he has because he should be able to go to Swansea, West Ham Stoke etc and put them to the sword still

I've no problem playing a conservative possession based system against team who are better than us but it's taking the píss doing it all season and being outplayed by really poor teams

bangkok · 23-02-2015 02:18PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Spurs and Liverpool defences are just as bad as ours, the difference being their managers play a decent system that lets them outscore their opponent, I can't excuse Van Gaal for the defence he has because he should be able to go to Swansea, West Ham Stoke etc and put them to the sword still

I've no problem playing a conservative possession based system against team who are better than us but it's taking the píss doing it all season and being outplayed by really poor teams

this is the problem, if this is what his game is about, why sign shaw, di maria, Herrera, falcao who are all attacking minded players!!!

Nolars · 23-02-2015 02:20PM

The worst thing to do is to sack lvg jesus like then we would have to get a new manager, his players and start from scratch all over again.

Ed The Equalizer · 23-02-2015 02:20PM

Polo_Mint wrote: »

Predictions for the run in

Sunderland (H) Win
Newcastle (A) Win
Tottenham ( H) Draw
Liverpool (A) Draw

Aston Villa (H) Win
Man City (H) Lose
Chelsea (A) Lose
Evertonv ( A ) Win

West Brom (H) Win
Crystal Palace (A) Win
Arsenal ( H) Draw
Hull ( A ) Win

Your 4 away wins are looking incredibly optimistic based on what we've seen so far this season...

Ed The Equalizer · 23-02-2015 02:24PM

Schism wrote: »

while they almost certainly won't win the league there's still a fighting chance of getting a CL place.

It feels like the only hope we have is for LVG to pull some results out of the bag against the big teams like he did in the WC against Spain and (to a lesser extent) Brazil. A similar pattern to the WC would be great - beat a couple of big teams, serve up a lot of dross in between and finish 3rd (or 4th).

TheDoc · 23-02-2015 02:28PM

Sunderland (H)
Newcastle (A)
Tottenham ( H)
Liverpool (A)
Aston Villa (H)
Man City (H)
Chelsea (A)
Everton ( A )
West Brom (H)
Crystal Palace (A)
Arsenal ( H)
Hull ( A )

Really can't help but feel those four games in bold are going to be make or break for top 4.

bangkok · 23-02-2015 02:33PM

Sunderland (H) win
Newcastle (A) draw
Tottenham ( H) draw
Liverpool (A) lose
Aston Villa (H) win
Man City (H) lose
Chelsea (A) lose
Everton ( A ) lose
West Brom (H) win
Crystal Palace (A) draw
Arsenal ( H) win
Hull ( A ) draw

that would be my predictions based on what I have seen this season

bullvine · 23-02-2015 02:36PM

bangkok wrote: »

Sunderland (H) win
Newcastle (A) draw
Tottenham ( H) draw
Liverpool (A) lose
Aston Villa (H) win
Man City (H) lose
Chelsea (A) lose
Everton ( A ) lose
West Brom (H) win
Crystal Palace (A) draw
Arsenal ( H) win
Hull ( A ) draw

that would be my predictions based on what I have seen this season

That will leave us with less than last season? It could easily happen.

Polo_Mint · 23-02-2015 02:36PM

bangkok wrote: »

Sunderland (H) win
Newcastle (A) draw
Tottenham ( H) draw
Liverpool (A) lose
Aston Villa (H) win
Man City (H) lose
Chelsea (A) lose
Everton ( A ) lose
West Brom (H) win
Crystal Palace (A) draw
Arsenal ( H) win
Hull ( A ) draw

that would be my predictions based on what I have seen this season

Lose 3 on the trot?

Lord TSC · 23-02-2015 02:38PM

Sack LVG :rolleyes:

We've been playing unimpressive football for three years under three managers now. We can't keep cycling through managers until one gets it to click. We need to work on what the common factors are within the poor performances over the 3 year period and replace them.

Reality is if LVG goes in the summer, we start from scratch with a new system, start with a new team of backroom staff who want completely new types of players, while also having to "assess" what's currently there.

Short of an utter implosion which sees us back down to 7th, I really do think the club needs to keep the manager and let him dump the tools that three different managers have struggled with.

bullvine · 23-02-2015 02:41PM

Its Ferguson's fault, I was in denial till recently, he left a squad that was half too old, half too young, practically no players in their prime with the exception of Rooney.

Its unreal, he got one last hurrah with the RVP signing to push them over the line.

TheDoc · 23-02-2015 02:47PM

Sacking Van Gaal is a big leap and is a rubbish stance to have. The argument last year for when people called for time was that Moyes had won nothing and had no CV of note and didn't deserve time.

You can't get a more glittering C.V then Van Gaal, so where is the patience now? People calling for him out already shows a glaring lack of reality for the situation we have been in the last 18 months - two years, and shows nothing but a spoilt attitude to "We arn't challenging for the league, sack the manager".

There was some good discussion and reasoning pre season that this won't get fixed with one transfer window. That it will probably take the entire of LVG's contract to be back challenging for titles. We arn't even a full season down and some people getting twitchy already.

You can't fix a broken squad in one window. We made some good progress in the first. Blind, Rojo, Shaw, Herrera and Di Maria are players who will do well for us over the course of a few years. Few additions in the summer to the defence and striker department will serve us well. The main thing is to have a system and tactic nailed down, so who we sign will be utilised correctly.

For example no point buying Reus or Depay and then sticking with a narrow formation etc.

But that is WAY down the line at this stage. Don't negotiate the next four fixtures correctly and the summer won't be about who we want to get in, but who want to stop going out.

Cantona's Collars · 23-02-2015 02:47PM

More problems for Strootman,doubt we'll take a chance on him now.His latest surgery didn't go as well as planned.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/feb/23/kevin-strootman-surgery-roma-former-doctor-manchester-united-target

bucketybuck · 23-02-2015 02:47PM

bullvine wrote: »

Its Ferguson's fault, I was in denial till recently, he left a squad that was half too old, half too young, practically no players in their prime with the exception of Rooney.

Its unreal, he got one last hurrah with the RVP signing to push them over the line.

Fergie did leave a squad with issues, but, again, you would think to hear some posters that we had the Hull or Stoke squads, or nothing but a bunch of journeymen.

Hundreds of millions spent on that squad since Fergie left and a lot of proven high quality players available, the raw materials are definitely there to perform a hell of a lot better than we have this season.

Dump the tools? We have some good tools, we just don't have a manager making best use of them.

TheDoc · 23-02-2015 02:49PM

bullvine wrote: »

Its Ferguson's fault, I was in denial till recently, he left a squad that was half too old, half too young, practically no players in their prime with the exception of Rooney.

Its unreal, he got one last hurrah with the RVP signing to push them over the line.

Welcome to the club. It's ok, having issue with one of the greatest managers of all time feels weird, but he is not infallible. Left a squad that "could challenge for the title for years to come" couldn't even challenge a CL spot in it's first season alone.

The great "new direction" of technical players with blistering pace to create a lightning fast attacking line that would blow teams out of the water. Abandoned after a few months leaving disjointed signings and squad.

In fairness while he will take a portion of the blame, the club needs to take responsibility for backing that assessment, it needs to take responsibility for not backing Moyes when he said it was bull****, and they need to take ownership now of changing that direction, which in fairness they have, clearing out some of the garbage and bringing in genuine quality.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

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