Woman asked to move from pre-booked seat calls Gardai

Alf Veedersane · 12-02-2015 11:00am

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Looking at tickets at the mo from waterford to Dublin for the weekend - no charge to reserve.

You can reserve a seat only if you have free travel (social or pensioner) - this costs money

Orly?

I get this for Dublin-Galway:

Pinch Flat · 12-02-2015 11:11am

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Orly?

I get this for Dublin-Galway:

Yeah fell for that one myself before. The bottom drop down is for people with free travel who want to reserve a seat. Deselect this and move on - you can then pick your tickets.

Jayney starting to doubt myself now - I'd normally have them booked by now but my little fella has something on Sunday morning - so we're not 100% on which train we are travelling

Alf Veedersane · 12-02-2015 11:20am

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Yeah fell for that one myself before. The bottom drop down is for people with free travel who want to reserve a seat. Deselect this and move on - you can then pick your tickets.

Jayney starting to doubt myself now - I'd normally have them booked by now but my little fella has something on Sunday morning - so we're not 100% on which train we are travelling

Oh yeah....free travel. Free is obviously anything under €5.01 per journey.

Pinch Flat · 12-02-2015 11:28am

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Oh yeah....free travel. Free is obviously anything under €5.01 per journey.

??? So if you have a free travel pass and want to book a seat it will cost you - perhaps if you're travelling at weekends or busy days. If not you take your chances that you'll get a seat. Fair enough I think.

foggy_lad · 12-02-2015 11:29am

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Costs nothing to reserve a seat

It is only free to reserve a seat if you book your ticket online!

Everyone else must pay to reserve a seat, this includes Free Travel pass holders as well as yearly monthly and weekly ticket holders most who pay thousands per year on their travel only to be told you can be turfed out of your seat for someone on a €9.99 weekend special!

The reservation system is not only broken a lot of the time but it is seriously flawed when the people who fund the company's survival are treated the worst! Season ticket holders should be able to reserve seats free but the system does not allow for this.

Irish Steve · 12-02-2015 11:43am

foggy_lad wrote: »

only to be told you can be turfed out of your seat for someone on a €9.99 weekend special!

Enough. You've been told countless times in the thread, it's not YOUR seat.

Ignore list, this thread is going nowhere.

Alf Veedersane · 12-02-2015 11:43am

Pinch Flat wrote: »

??? So if you have a free travel pass and want to book a seat it will cost you - perhaps if you're travelling at weekends or busy days. If not you take your chances that you'll get a seat. Fair enough I think.

It's free travel for children under 5.

You could take your chances alright and just go on the day and not buy a ticket for the chisler but the times we've had her on the train we knew it would be busy so didn't take a risk.

But if you want to reserve a seat in advance it's a fiver.

Alf Veedersane · 12-02-2015 11:45am

foggy_lad wrote: »

Everyone else must pay to reserve a seat, this includes Free Travel pass holders as well as yearly monthly and weekly ticket holders most who pay thousands per year on their travel only to be told you can be turfed out of your seat for someone on a €9.99 weekend special!

It doesn't matter who pays what for their ticket if they've paid what it costs to book a ticket.

Not every seat on any flight will be sold at the same price. Does that mean some passengers are more enmtitled than others?

SpaceTime · 12-02-2015 12:00pm

I do think it should be possible to reserve a seat once you have a ticket.

I'd do it like this:

1) Pass holders:
You can reserve a seat for free, but if you reserve and don't show say 3 times, you will lose the facility until you pay a fee to have it reactivated. That would prevent people just reserving random seats and not showing up, which would be a genuine risk.

You could verify this by requiring a reservation ticket to be collected from the ticket machine. If it goes uncollected, the facility eventually gets withdrawn.

2) Everyone else i.e. walking up with a ticket.

You can allocate a seat in the station via the ticket machine. It should be possible to stick your ticket in, validate it and then have a seat number printed out on a new ticket.
Again, this would prevent abuse.

or, pay a fee online and do it there.

I can see why they don't want to do 100% free reservations as you'd have people saying "oh, I might get the 4:00 train ... I'll just reserve it." then not showing up and reserving another one some other time and you'd end up with a total mess.

If you've open ended tickets that aren't tied to a particular train time, it's very difficult to do this without some kind of restrictions on it.

hardCopy · 12-02-2015 12:44pm

SpaceTime wrote: »

I do think it should be possible to reserve a seat once you have a ticket.

I'd do it like this:

1) Pass holders:
You can reserve a seat for free, but if you reserve and don't show say 3 times, you will lose the facility until you pay a fee to have it reactivated. That would prevent people just reserving random seats and not showing up, which would be a genuine risk.

You could verify this by requiring a reservation ticket to be collected from the ticket machine. If it goes uncollected, the facility eventually gets withdrawn.

2) Everyone else i.e. walking up with a ticket.

You can allocate a seat in the station via the ticket machine. It should be possible to stick your ticket in, validate it and then have a seat number printed out on a new ticket.
Again, this would prevent abuse.

or, pay a fee online and do it there.

I can see why they don't want to do 100% free reservations as you'd have people saying "oh, I might get the 4:00 train ... I'll just reserve it." then not showing up and reserving another one some other time and you'd end up with a total mess.

If you've open ended tickets that aren't tied to a particular train time, it's very difficult to do this without some kind of restrictions on it.

You could also treat the open ended ticket as a voucher. Once it's converted to a reserved ticket it can't be used on any other train.

SpaceTime · 12-02-2015 1:13pm

hardCopy wrote: »

You could also treat the open ended ticket as a voucher. Once it's converted to a reserved ticket it can't be used on any other train.

You'd still need a system for pass holders though.

end of the road · 12-02-2015 2:56pm

Peppa Pig wrote: »

There is

It's a ticket issued by IR detailing the use of a particular seat or carriage.

Mind you, there is nothing in the bye-laws as to what classes as an engine or a train or a station. Do IR need to lay this down in law so we don't assume a train is the Coke machine on the platform?

it doesn't. . yes, confirmation and clear passenger information is key

Alf Veedersane · 12-02-2015 3:08pm

end of the road wrote: »

it doesn't. . yes, confirmation and clear passenger information is key

If someone shows you a ticket they've booked with a seat number on it, you'll take out your copy of the bye laws?

Or do you just not be a d*ck about it and vacate the seat they paid for?

Hilly Bill · 12-02-2015 3:28pm

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Costs nothing to reserve a seat

It does if you havent bought your ticket on line. Pass holders sometimes reserve seats only.

TheChizler · 12-02-2015 3:34pm

Simple solution would be for IR to mark the displays over unreserved seats "UNRESERVED" or "UNRESERVED UNTIL X" and putting up a notice saying that unless a seat is explicitly unreserved you can assume it's reserved. That would cover the displays not working as well.

Then again, that solution presumes that a problem exists, which it seems only a small minority of people think.

Hilly Bill · 12-02-2015 3:34pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is only free to reserve a seat if you book your ticket online!

Everyone else must pay to reserve a seat, this includes Free Travel pass holders as well as yearly monthly and weekly ticket holders most who pay thousands per year on their travel only to be told you can be turfed out of your seat for someone on a €9.99 weekend special!

The reservation system is not only broken a lot of the time but it is seriously flawed when the people who fund the company's survival are treated the worst! Season ticket holders should be able to reserve seats free but the system does not allow for this.

Why should they get it for free when they already getting that journey at a discount?

Pinch Flat · 12-02-2015 3:43pm

what would be a good conclusion to this thread is that if foggy_lad was sitting in end of the road's reserved seat.

Hilly Bill · 12-02-2015 3:45pm

One answer might be is when buying online you don't get allocated a seat unless you ask for one. Your name will still be on the manifest but no seat number. The reason is that a few who bought tickets online left the system assigned a seat for them but they don't take up that seat and sit anywhere they want on the train. Another is the designated carriage for reserved seats with any free seats available to all once the train is boarded.

Wichita Lineman · 12-02-2015 4:33pm

I am a regular commuter for many years and was recently challenged by a woman who claimed I was sitting in her pre booked seat. I politely declined to move as there was nothing on the screen overhead to indicate that it was a pre booked seat. After fumbling around in her bag for a while it turned out that she was in the wrong carriage. She didn't even apologise to me for her rudeness.

I have never deliberately sat in a pre booked seat but do keep an eye on the screen. If it came up after I have sat down then I am sorry but I am not moving and it's up to IR to provide enough seats to safely cater for all long suffering high paying commuters. I cant afford to pay another €5 a go per trip to pre book but IR get my annual fee full whack in one go which I think entitles me to equal courtesy as is shown to someone taking a one off day trip to the big smoke.

foggy_lad · 12-02-2015 5:19pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

One answer might be is when buying online you don't get allocated a seat unless you ask for one. Your name will still be on the manifest but no seat number. The reason is that a few who bought tickets online left the system assigned a seat for them but they don't take up that seat and sit anywhere they want on the train. Another is the designated carriage for reserved seats with any free seats available to all once the train is boarded.

At the moment most trains have one or two carriages in which seats can be reserved but people are saying that the seats will remain reserved for the duration of the journey even if the passengers are not sitting there, They could be walking up and down the train or sitting somewhere else with a friend or got a different train etc.....when does that seat become available? we are also talking about intercity trains so it is reasonable to expect that any reserved seats would become available to all after the train has left the station the reservation is from as people should have claimed their seats by that time.

Hilly Bill · 12-02-2015 5:46pm

Close enough . A bit of common sense works wonders, so if it's obvious that the seat hasn't been claimed then you are free to sit there. Even if the names come up after you sat down stay there if you wish until it's claimed within a reasonable time. There is a good chance that a person would sit elsewhere and you wont be asked to move.

MOH · 12-02-2015 6:09pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The carriage A. B, C etc would be displayed.

You missed the point, its reserved from the moment you paid for it and get your conformation details with your seat number on it.

There's two parts to reserving something. There's allocating it to a specific individual, and removing it or in some way marking it as no longer available for general use. If the second part isn't done, then it's not reserved.

The bigger issue is IE abdicating responsibility. If you book a specific table in a restaurant, or an area in a pub, or a particular hotel room, and your turn up and there's clearly been no effort made to honour the reservation, you don't start haranguing the person in "your" spot and demanding they leave. You take it up with the business. The difference being that there's usually someone available to complain. IE employees are generally conspicuous by their absence.

Calina wrote: »

I don't recall it being possible to reserve seats online 15 years ago; I'm absolutely certain it wasn't. So yammering about having at least 15 years to get it right is nonsense.

I've already pointed out to you - and you refuse to accept it - that building the end to end process is not a simple chore. The fact that you persist in claiming that it is makes it clear that you do not know what you are talking about in terms of building a reservation system.

I travel on intercity trains in Ireland from time to time. I have ONCE had an issue where the reservations weren't loaded at departure time. ONCE.

Maybe I am incredibly lucky. I would be surprised, however.

I used to frequently travel on InterCity trains, and I'd estimate about 50% of the time my seat wasn't reserved when I boarded. I probably am incredibly unlucky though (honestly not being sarcastic there).

Not sure about here, but 14 years ago I travelled all over northern Italy by train, and every train I booked had a slip of paper at the end of my seat with my boarding and departing station on it, indicating it was reserved. It's not rocket science, and there's no excuse for not doing it properly.

I've also handed my ticket with a reserved seat number clearly marked to an IE ticket inspector, and had him tell me to my face that reservations weren't possible on that train. So if that's IE's position, I don't see why anyone else should be expected to accept a stranger's piece of paper as a reservation.

Spanish Eyes · 12-02-2015 7:34pm

Irish Rail need to up their game big time regarding reservations.

They offer it, we accept it. There is a contract there somewhere!

If they cannot guarantee reserved seats what's the point of it all?

Just sell the seat online and forget about reservations. But reservation numbers is probably an indication of load factors for them. Maybe that's all it is!

Disgraceful really.

- Customer service... no
- Guaranteed reservsations...no
- Staff members around to adjudicate...no
- Do they care?....no.

TINA1984 · 12-02-2015 8:03pm

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

I have never deliberately sat in a pre booked seat but do keep an eye on the screen. If it came up after I have sat down then I am sorry but I am not moving and it's up to IR to provide enough seats to safely cater for all long suffering high paying commuters.

If you take this line of thought to its logical conclusion then surely all reserved seats can be dismissed with a simple ''sorry, no name above the seat when I sat here, it's my seat now''

Btw commuters the world over aren't entitled to a seat, I see no reason why Ireland should be an exception.

Hilly Bill · 12-02-2015 8:24pm

MOH wrote: »

There's two parts to reserving something. There's allocating it to a specific individual, and removing it or in some way marking it as no longer available for general use. If the second part isn't done, then it's not reserved.

The bigger issue is IE abdicating responsibility. If you book a specific table in a restaurant, or an area in a pub, or a particular hotel room, and your turn up and there's clearly been no effort made to honour the reservation, you don't start haranguing the person in "your" spot and demanding they leave. You take it up with the business. The difference being that there's usually someone available to complain. IE employees are generally conspicuous by their absence.

I used to frequently travel on InterCity trains, and I'd estimate about 50% of the time my seat wasn't reserved when I boarded. I probably am incredibly unlucky though (honestly not being sarcastic there).

Not sure about here, but 14 years ago I travelled all over northern Italy by train, and every train I booked had a slip of paper at the end of my seat with my boarding and departing station on it, indicating it was reserved. It's not rocket science, and there's no excuse for not doing it properly.

I've also handed my ticket with a reserved seat number clearly marked to an IE ticket inspector, and had him tell me to my face that reservations weren't possible on that train. So if that's IE's position, I don't see why anyone else should be expected to accept a stranger's piece of paper as a reservation.

Do you get told in advance which table and room is yours?

TheChizler · 12-02-2015 8:52pm

MOH wrote: »

There's two parts to reserving something. There's allocating it to a specific individual, and removing it or in some way marking it as no longer available for general use. If the second part isn't done, then it's not reserved.

Says who? Bear in mind the only definitions IR have to abide by are in their own terms and conditions and relevant bye-laws.

Pinch Flat · 12-02-2015 8:59pm

TINA1984 wrote: »

Btw commuters the world over aren't entitled to a seat, I see no reason why Ireland should be an exception.

That's the key word - entitlement ( or sense of). That's what sets us apart a lot of the time from countries where this works.

dr.fuzzenstein · 12-02-2015 10:39pm

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

I am a regular commuter for many years and was recently challenged by a woman who claimed I was sitting in her pre booked seat. I politely declined to move as there was nothing on the screen overhead to indicate that it was a pre booked seat. After fumbling around in her bag for a while it turned out that she was in the wrong carriage. She didn't even apologise to me for her rudeness.

I have never deliberately sat in a pre booked seat but do keep an eye on the screen. If it came up after I have sat down then I am sorry but I am not moving and it's up to IR to provide enough seats to safely cater for all long suffering high paying commuters. I cant afford to pay another €5 a go per trip to pre book but IR get my annual fee full whack in one go which I think entitles me to equal courtesy as is shown to someone taking a one off day trip to the big smoke.

Oh look, we have another. :rolleyes: How long after? 5 seconds? And saying "Fcuk off, I'm not moving" is showing someone else courtesy? You are entitled? Really? Where does it say you are entitled to a seat? Please scan in your ticket and highlight the relevant passage. Preferably with seat number.
it is bad to be rude, you don't like it if someone comes up to you and says "hey buddy, sling yer hook and pronto!", but you think it's perfectly acceptable to say "fuggof, not moving". Fail argument, next

Agent J · 12-02-2015 11:00pm

I swear the only thing worse than Irish rails service is its customers...

This is why we can't have nice things....... Because some people will f**k it up for everyone.

dr.fuzzenstein · 12-02-2015 11:40pm

Agent J wrote: »

I swear the only thing worse than Irish rails service is its customers...

This is why we can't have nice things....... Because some people will f**k it up for everyone.

Its along the same lines as people sitting at 80 km/h in the "fasht lane" and not moving over for anyone or anything, because they are "entitled to be on the road"

Woman asked to move from pre-booked seat calls Gardai

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