Woman asked to move from pre-booked seat calls Gardai

Thoie

If all ticket office and machine bought tickets had a seat number on them (assigned, in order, starting from C1 or whatever the first empty seat is), the only people without reserved seats would be free travel pass holders and annual pass holders. If they issued those pass holders with a smart card of some kind, then you just change the ticket machines to accept those as a form of "payment". So if you're an annual pass holder, on arrival at the station you can walk up to a machine and get it to print you a ticket for a specific journey, with a seat number on it.

Once the allocated number of seats on the train was reached, any tickets issued after that would say "Standing", which would give you an opportunity to decide if you want to stand or do something else.

The ticket machines would need to be clever enough to recognise when a "pass" payment is feasible. For example, if I've just booked the 10am Dublin to Cork train (for the entire journey), I can't then use my pass to book the 11am Dublin to Cork, or the 11:30 Dublin to Galway. It would have to know that next earliest train I could get from Dublin would be after 3pm.

foggy_lad

Thoie wrote: »

If all ticket office and machine bought tickets had a seat number on them (assigned, in order, starting from C1 or whatever the first empty seat is), the only people without reserved seats would be free travel pass holders and annual pass holders. If they issued those pass holders with a smart card of some kind, then you just change the ticket machines to accept those as a form of "payment". So if you're an annual pass holder, on arrival at the station you can walk up to a machine and get it to print you a ticket for a specific journey, with a seat number on it.

Once the allocated number of seats on the train was reached, any tickets issued after that would say "Standing", which would give you an opportunity to decide if you want to stand or do something else.

The ticket machines would need to be clever enough to recognise when a "pass" payment is feasible. For example, if I've just booked the 10am Dublin to Cork train (for the entire journey), I can't then use my pass to book the 11am Dublin to Cork, or the 11:30 Dublin to Galway. It would have to know that next earliest train I could get from Dublin would be after 3pm.

The problem is their systems cant do reservations from the booking office or vending machines like you describe, they cant allocate seats right up to train time because the only way they have of transferring the reservation to the train sets seems to be backward or at least very unreliable and takes a few hours. online booking closes a few hours before the train departure and if you book late you are advised that your seat might not be reserved afaik.

Calina

foggy_lad wrote: »

The problem is their systems cant do reservations from the booking office or vending machines like you describe, they cant allocate seats right up to train time because the only way they have of transferring the reservation to the train sets seems to be backward or at least very unreliable and takes a few hours. online booking closes a few hours before the train departure and if you book late you are advised that your seat might not be reserved afaik.

If all seats were assigned, there would be no need to post names or reservations in the trains themselves. There would be no need to transfer reservations to the train.

They manage okay with this on the tgvs in France where it is accepted that every seat is mandatorily reserved and the train operator doesn't have to post reservation information in the trains at all.

triple nipple

It's very simple really, if you're in a seat reserved for someone else but their is no clear sign indacating such, but the passenger has a ticket that says otherwise, get the fudge up and stop being a penis ! You're in their seat ! Take it up with IR if you have a problem with their procedures/performance.

dr.fuzzenstein

Calina wrote: »

If all seats were assigned, there would be no need to post names or reservations in the trains themselves. There would be no need to transfer reservations to the train.

They manage okay with this on the tgvs in France where it is accepted that every seat is mandatorily reserved and the train operator doesn't have to post reservation information in the trains at all.

I think the problem is that in France (or anywhere else) people don't park on double yellows (or whatever they have), drive the wrong way up one way streets, break the lights, deliberately park in parent and child spaces because they don't agree with them (this does happen), drive right up to the door of the supermarket and park in everyone's way as long as it saves them a 50 meter walk, I could go on and on and on and on. Ireland is a country that doesn't do rules very well, I'm afraid. There isn't really a spirit of cooperation here with some people, it's more like "Ah Jaysus, I'll fix his little wagon!". I blame the Brits. If you are an invaded country, you have to do everything to confuse, frustrate and hinder the enemy. Just look at road signs, street names and house numbers, not enough to navigate by if you don't know the area. My previous boss always used to say "sure if you came this far, you know where you're going".
It was fdair enough when the country had to stick together against a common enemy, but now the Brits are gone and we're just doing it to ourselves. Probably subconsciously. We don't even know why we're doing inconsiderate sh*t to each other.
Hence our disregard for rules, dislike of authority, lack of streetsigns and, of course, disregard for any written notice, so an unwritten one doesn't stand a chance. And even if we had bright, flashing neon lights with the name of the passenger, someone would still sit in it and say "Ah shure, he/she won't mind, they just have to move to another seat".
So the system isn't the problem, the people are. And not all the people, Ireland has changed massively over the last 20 years, but there are a few. Some are merely thoughtless (literally bereft of any thought in their heads), others do it deliberately and (worryingly IMO) the freeman movement, people who are merely real life trolls and revel in being obnoxious and starting trouble. Not talking about anyone in particular, merely musing about Irish society in general. As a German I can tell you it takes a lot of getting used to, but after 20 years I almost am.

Pinch Flat

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I think the problem is that in France (or anywhere else) people don't park on double yellows (or whatever they have), drive the wrong way up one way streets, break the lights, deliberately park in parent and child spaces because they don't agree with them (this does happen), drive right up to the door of the supermarket and park in everyone's way as long as it saves them a 50 meter walk, I could go on and on and on and on. Ireland is a country that doesn't do rules very well, I'm afraid. There isn't really a spirit of cooperation here with some people, it's more like "Ah Jaysus, I'll fix his little wagon!". I blame the Brits. If you are an invaded country, you have to do everything to confuse, frustrate and hinder the enemy. Just look at road signs, street names and house numbers, not enough to navigate by if you don't know the area. My previous boss always used to say "sure if you came this far, you know where you're going".
It was fdair enough when the country had to stick together against a common enemy, but now the Brits are gone and we're just doing it to ourselves. Probably subconsciously. We don't even know why we're doing inconsiderate sh*t to each other.
Hence our disregard for rules, dislike of authority, lack of streetsigns and, of course, disregard for any written notice, so an unwritten one doesn't stand a chance. And even if we had bright, flashing neon lights with the name of the passenger, someone would still sit in it and say "Ah shure, he/she won't mind, they just have to move to another seat".
So the system isn't the problem, the people are. And not all the people, Ireland has changed massively over the last 20 years, but there are a few. Some are merely thoughtless (literally bereft of any thought in their heads), others do it deliberately and (worryingly IMO) the freeman movement, people who are merely real life trolls and revel in being obnoxious and starting trouble. Not talking about anyone in particular, merely musing about Irish society in general. As a German I can tell you it takes a lot of getting used to, but after 20 years I almost am.

I agree with a lot of what you say - I always say Ireland is a socially immature country, the teenager of our fellow Europeans if you will. The people are at the core of a lot of our social issues, but it's not helped by our chaotic officialdom either that supports behavior that would be unacceptable in other countries.. I'm saying this as someone whose lived in the UK (rural and city) and Germany, not exactly far flung locations but interesting nevertheless to compare and contrast people's attitudes here,

People don't do rules here and never will - as I type this, there's a taxi driver parked on a corner of a road, illegally and on a double yellow line, and has basically told the guy trying to legitimately turn left to p!ss off. Because, you know, he's entitled to park there having paid for his car an taxi licence.

There is a seriously serious selfish mé féin streak that I've rarely seen anywhere else (well, I lived in London but that's a different matter).

Ideas that are simple and accepted abroad and people generally row in with are made extremely complicated here by people and their behavior. So the guy with the new 151 who is "entitled" to two spaces because, you know, he's just paid 30 odd grand for the car.

The mum dropping her kid to school who's 'entitled' to park where she likes. Never mind the neighbour she's blocking from getting out of her driveway, or the dangerous situation she's causing by parking on the roundabout. The fact that the school has had to mention this (in bold, sometimes red letters) in every single newsletter since my kid joined the school in 2010 sums it up.

And it brings me back to the crux of this thread - one or two posters who feels they are 'entitled' to a seat just because, you know, they got there first and sod the person coming behind with their legitimate booking, be they able bodied, in their 80's or a child with special needs.

"Entitled to" explains away a lot of problems and issues in some people minds.

foggy_lad

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I think the problem is that in France (or anywhere else) people don't park on double yellows (or whatever they have), drive the wrong way up one way streets, break the lights, deliberately park in parent and child spaces because they don't agree with them (this does happen), drive right up to the door of the supermarket and park in everyone's way as long as it saves them a 50 meter walk, I could go on and on and on and on. Ireland is a country that doesn't do rules very well, I'm afraid. There isn't really a spirit of cooperation here with some people, it's more like "Ah Jaysus, I'll fix his little wagon!". I blame the Brits. If you are an invaded country, you have to do everything to confuse, frustrate and hinder the enemy. Just look at road signs, street names and house numbers, not enough to navigate by if you don't know the area. My previous boss always used to say "sure if you came this far, you know where you're going".
It was fdair enough when the country had to stick together against a common enemy, but now the Brits are gone and we're just doing it to ourselves. Probably subconsciously. We don't even know why we're doing inconsiderate sh*t to each other.
Hence our disregard for rules, dislike of authority, lack of streetsigns and, of course, disregard for any written notice, so an unwritten one doesn't stand a chance. And even if we had bright, flashing neon lights with the name of the passenger, someone would still sit in it and say "Ah shure, he/she won't mind, they just have to move to another seat".
So the system isn't the problem, the people are. And not all the people, Ireland has changed massively over the last 20 years, but there are a few. Some are merely thoughtless (literally bereft of any thought in their heads), others do it deliberately and (worryingly IMO) the freeman movement, people who are merely real life trolls and revel in being obnoxious and starting trouble. Not talking about anyone in particular, merely musing about Irish society in general. As a German I can tell you it takes a lot of getting used to, but after 20 years I almost am.

Ah Germany! Now there's a country worth living in with its racists Nazis, facists, bigot,s high crime rates, immigrant problems and of course the lovely way the SS make you carry your ID papers with you everywhere and arrest you if you don't! Where the sound of children playing on a Sunday morning can have your neighbours complaining to you, where the same efficiency that bred and created the holocaust is still beavering away till some new monster decides its his/her time to shine!

The Germans have a fantastic rail system! If you sit in someone else's seat there you might end up arrested. They don't really like the middle ground or the thought of any kind of compromise and there is nothing wrong with that if you are a German living in Germany but maybe that is the future for us all?

Pinch Flat

foggy_lad wrote: »

Ah Germany! Now there's a country worth living in with its racists Nazis, facists, bigot,s high crime rates, immigrant problems and of course the lovely way the SS make you carry your ID papers with you everywhere and arrest you if you don't! Where the sound of children playing on a Sunday morning can have your neighbours complaining to you, where the same efficiency that bred and created the holocaust is still beavering away till some new monster decides its his/her time to shine!

The Germans have a fantastic rail system! If you sit in someone else's seat there you might end up arrested. They don't really like the middle ground or the thought of any kind of compromise and there is nothing wrong with that if you are a German living in Germany but maybe that is the future for us all?

Have you ever lived in or visited Germany? I'm just trying to figure out the basis for your unfounded rant.

Haven lived there myself we could learn a lot of lessons from them. And BTW, not carrying ID is a criminal offence in most EU countries - we and the UK are almost unique in this regard.

And yes - you will more than likely be arrested on a train of you don't abide by the rules. I used to like particularly how the dealt with the 'Schwarzfahrer' (fare evaders). No questions asked - but the train or tram would stop ant the next stop, where you'd be greeted by Hans and Ulrick and their Glock and German Shepherd, with the back tailgate of their Audi Polizeiwagen for your personal trip to the local police station, rather than inconveniencing the hundred of fellow passengers.

Germany is an extremely safe and law abiding country - but if you overstep the mark, they generally come down pretty hard.

LordNorbury

In fairness, how was she to know the seat was previously assigned to someone else? A system whereby someone can get on a train and assume an empty seat is a vacant seat, when it actually isn't, it has been previously booked by someone else, how is that conductive to normal train journeys?

If I was on a train journey, insofar as it is possible, I'd want to be left alone and undisturbed by other passengers and staff, the exception being I'd maybe expect to have my ticket checked, but apart from that I would want to be left alone in peace and someone coming up to me basically kicking me out of a seat that I had no knowledge had been booked by him/her, this is going to seriously píss any person off in seriousness and it's a systems problem that Irish Rail need to sort out if a passenger can't check weather or not a seat they are about to sit in for their journey has been previously booked by someone else.

Yes calling the Gardai is completely OTT, it's a customer complaint matter, I'd personally have refused to move on the basis that when I booked my ticket, I expected a seat and Irish Rail at no time told me what seats I couldn't sit in because they were pre-boooked. It's a non issue really if there are available seats but if the train is packed and there is a shortage of seats, then you can see how it does become a problem.

Surely if a seat has been pre-booked, Irish Rail have the cop on to put some kind of a notice on the seat or on the table or something to stop silly incidents like this from making the national newspaper???

Alf Veedersane

LordNorbury wrote: »

Surely if a seat has been pre-booked, Irish Rail have the cop on to put some kind of a notice on the seat or on the table or something to stop silly incidents like this from making the national newspaper???

They mostly do.

That's what the display panel above the seats is for.

LordNorbury

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

They mostly do.

That's what the display panel above the seats is for.

Never saw these display panels, I tend to stay in the steerage class myself these days.
:D:D

MOH

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Do you get told in advance which table and room is yours?

You do if you specifically request a particular room/table, as indicated by "book a specific room or table".

TheChizler wrote: »

Says who? Bear in mind the only definitions IR have to abide by are in their own terms and conditions and relevant bye-laws.

Says English? Though IE are quite good at redefining language to suit their own meaning, e.g. punctuality

Reservation: "an arrangement to have something (such as a room, table, or seat) held for your use at a later time"

You reserve a seat, you've got a commitment from IE that seat will be set aside for your use. If they make no effort to do that, they've failed to honour your reservation, your problem is with them. You can go up to the person sitting in that seat and ask them to honour a broken promise made to you by someone else which is nothing to do with them, and they may choose to do so, but it's up to them. You don't get a seat, you're entitled to a refund. They don't get a seat, they're entitled to nothing.

Calina wrote: »

If all seats were assigned, there would be no need to post names or reservations in the trains themselves. There would be no need to transfer reservations to the train.

They manage okay with this on the tgvs in France where it is accepted that every seat is mandatorily reserved and the train operator doesn't have to post reservation information in the trains at all.

This would be ideal. Make all seats reserved. Walk-up passengers get assigned a seat when they buy their ticket. If there's no seats left, they can be told they'll have to stand. Plus that way it's first come first served for non pre-booked seats.
And the only need for on-train reservation indicators is for pre-booked passengers at intermediate stops.


But as is, the suggestion that anyone who doesn't pre-book a seat isn't entitled to one is unworkable. Plenty of people are unwilling or unable to book online, for a variety of reasons. They should be able to turn up early, sit in a clearly unreserved seat, and not be bothered later.
There's also plenty of InterCity stations (I'd suggest possibly even a majority) from which online booking is not possible.

Simpler solution: if you sit in a seat that's not marked as reserved, somebody comes to claim it, and there's no other seats available, you get a full refund. Should sort things out pretty quickly, since if there's one thing IE care about (and it ain't their passengers) it's their revenue. I'd bet there'd be a lot less reservation failures.

Alf Veedersane

MOH wrote: »

Simpler solution: if you sit in a seat that's not marked as reserved, somebody comes to claim it, and there's no other seats available, you get a full refund. Should sort things out pretty quickly, since if there's one thing IE care about (and it ain't their passengers) it's their revenue. I'd bet there'd be a lot less reservation failures.

Just to clarify, are you suggesting that they restrict the number of passengers allowed to travel to the number of seats on the train?

One problem I'd see with that is the amount of people who wouldn't be able to avail of a service. Most of the trains on a Sunday travelling from Westport/Galway to Dublin would be full. Especially during the college year. You might be lucky to get a seat if you get on at Athlone but thereafter it's unlikely.

The solution would be to run more trains but given the fact that the infrastructure limits the number of services on that line, if you limit the number of passengers to the number of seats, you'll end up with a lot more people put out by not being able to avail of a train service than are currently affected by the reservation display very occasionally not working.

Just throwing that out there. Not that I disagree with your suggestion.

Grolschevik

Isn't it obvious? Monkey butlers. Every carriage should have a monkey butler.








Given that many of the proposed solutions would require significant modification of the TVMs, staffing, and /or rolling stock, I think monkey butlers fit right in.

Or we could, you know, be polite and courteous...

dam099

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Just to clarify, are you suggesting that they restrict the number of passengers allowed to travel to the number of seats on the train?

One problem I'd see with that is the amount of people who wouldn't be able to avail of a service. Most of the trains on a Sunday travelling from Westport/Galway to Dublin would be full. Especially during the college year. You might be lucky to get a seat if you get on at Athlone but thereafter it's unlikely.

The solution would be to run more trains but given the fact that the infrastructure limits the number of services on that line, if you limit the number of passengers to the number of seats, you'll end up with a lot more people put out by not being able to avail of a train service than are currently affected by the reservation display very occasionally not working.

Just throwing that out there. Not that I disagree with your suggestion.

Once the seats are sold out just sell standing tickets, the holders should then know they have no entitlement to a seat.

MOH

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Just to clarify, are you suggesting that they restrict the number of passengers allowed to travel to the number of seats on the train?

One problem I'd see with that is the amount of people who wouldn't be able to avail of a service. Most of the trains on a Sunday travelling from Westport/Galway to Dublin would be full. Especially during the college year. You might be lucky to get a seat if you get on at Athlone but thereafter it's unlikely.

The solution would be to run more trains but given the fact that the infrastructure limits the number of services on that line, if you limit the number of passengers to the number of seats, you'll end up with a lot more people put out by not being able to avail of a train service than are currently affected by the reservation display very occasionally not working.

Just throwing that out there. Not that I disagree with your suggestion.

No, you could still buy a ticket once the seating runs out, but at least you'd know in advance you'll be standing.

Never going to happen though, if they can't manage the current reservation system there's no way they'll ever put together a decent integrated system involving walk-up passengers

Alf Veedersane

MOH wrote: »

No, you could still buy a ticket once the seating runs out, but at least you'd know in advance you'll be standing.

Never going to happen though, if they can't manage the current reservation system there's no way they'll ever put together a decent integrated system involving walk-up passengers

Fairy nuff.

But I think the whole management/lack of management of the reservation system is being blown out of all proportion. I don't think it's nearly as widespread as it's being made out to be.

Wichita Lineman

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Oh look, we have another. :rolleyes: How long after? 5 seconds? And saying "Fcuk off, I'm not moving" is showing someone else courtesy? You are entitled? Really? Where does it say you are entitled to a seat? Please scan in your ticket and highlight the relevant passage. Preferably with seat number.
it is bad to be rude, you don't like it if someone comes up to you and says "hey buddy, sling yer hook and pronto!", but you think it's perfectly acceptable to say "fuggof, not moving". Fail argument, next

The snotty tone of your response suggests to me that you misunderstood or didnt read my post correctly.

I wasn't the one being rude, the woman with a reservation - in another carriage - was the one being obnoxious. If I get on the train and the seat is not marked reserved I can sit there as I am entitled to seeing as I have a valid annual ticket for the journey. Irish Rail cannot then allocate that seat after the event to someone else if I am already sitting there. I stated quite clearly in all my years commuting I have never actually sat in a reserved seat.

Perhaps this will help you understand my position on the matter.

Alf Veedersane

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

Irish Rail cannot then allocate that seat after the event to someone else if I am already sitting there.

What if the woman had produced a ticket showing she'd booked that seat?

joeguevara

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

The snotty tone of your response suggests to me that you misunderstood or didnt read my post correctly.

I wasn't the one being rude, the woman with a reservation - in another carriage - was the one being obnoxious. If I get on the train and the seat is not marked reserved I can sit there as I am entitled to seeing as I have a valid annual ticket for the journey. Irish Rail cannot then allocate that seat after the event to someone else if I am already sitting there. I stated quite clearly in all my years commuting I have never actually sat in a reserved seat.

Perhaps this will help you understand my position on the matter.

This would be impossible to do as the reservation system stops taking bookings well in advance of anyone getting on the train. It would be impossible therefore for you to sit on a seat that is unreserved and then somebody reserves it while you are sitting there.

Wichita Lineman

Alf ^^ Well then I would probably move but to be honest it might depend on the attitude of the person asking and in this case she was not remotely pleasant. My original point was that she was being obnoxious while insisting I move from a seat she hadnt actually pre booked at all. There was no need for that. That's why I said I am entitled to the same courtesy as everyone else.

Alf Veedersane

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

Alf ^^ Well then I would probably move but to be honest it might depend on the attitude of the person asking and in this case she was not remotely pleasant. My original point was that she was being obnoxious while insisting I move from a seat she hadnt actually pre booked at all. There was no need for that. That's why I said I am entitled to the same courtesy as everyone else.

She was and you are entitled to courtesy as a sentient being. I'd be hard pressed to move she was in the right if she came to me with that attitude.

I probably would move but not until after I had told her to go out, come back and ask me like a civilised person would.

Sparks43

Well guess what

boarded train with reserved seats and 2 people are sitting in them

Call the cops time?

Nah we just went to the next seats and got nice and comfy

dr.fuzzenstein

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

The snotty tone of your response suggests to me that you misunderstood or didnt read my post correctly.

I wasn't the one being rude, the woman with a reservation - in another carriage - was the one being obnoxious. If I get on the train and the seat is not marked reserved I can sit there as I am entitled to seeing as I have a valid annual ticket for the journey. Irish Rail cannot then allocate that seat after the event to someone else if I am already sitting there. I stated quite clearly in all my years commuting I have never actually sat in a reserved seat.

Perhaps this will help you understand my position on the matter.

She was rude and she was also wrong. But if she had been right, it would have still been her seat. Rudeness is not exclusive to seat blockers so. It is apparently fine for the people who have taken up a reserved seat to say "fuggof, not moving", but a moral outrage and automatic forfeit of any reservation not to kow-tow to the person blocking THEIR seat. As for the bit marked in bold. A: You are not and B: That reply neatly sums up everything that is wrong with this country. Belief in automatic entitlement to everything. This is why Ireland will never be Norway, Sweden or Switzerland.
If you sit in a seat that someone else has reserved, you are NOT entitled to that seat. Because you did not reserve a seat. The other person did. That person went to the bother of reserving a seat, which you DIDN'T do, ergo you are not entitled. because you didn't reserve a seat. So you are not entitled unlike the other person that, look you get what I'm getting at.
You (and not just you but Foggy and a few others) could perhaps quote me the relevant passage in the regulations of IR that states you HAVE an automatic and absolute right to a seat, furthermore a right over the person that reserved that seat. You have been beating us over the head with codswallop arguments, so now:

TL:DR:
Everyone who thinks they have an absolute right to a seat and furthermore have priority over the person that actually booked that seat, let's hear it: Where is the passage in IR's terms and conditions that underlines YOUR argument?
No? Nothing? Thought not. Gerrout Ma Seat and fairly lively!

Wichita Lineman

^ Yet again you spectacularly miss my point to further your own argument. If a seat is not reserved and I have a valid ticket for travel then I am in fact entitled to take that seat.

dr.fuzzenstein

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

^ Yet again you spectacularly miss my point to further your own argument. If a seat is not reserved and I have a valid ticket for travel then I am in fact entitled to take that seat.

If nobody reserved that seat, yes, of course. Unless somebody did reserve it and has a ticket to prove it.

Wichita Lineman

Exactly. She didn't. Her reservation was for another carriage.

foggy_lad

Latest replies from IE and my email to them

Thank you for your reply.



Please see the official section regarding reserved seating available in Iarnród Éireann Conditions of Travel. http://www.irishrail.ie/media/conditionsoftravel1.pdf?v=ge3dnca


43.2 A passenger shall not occupy a seat reserved for or assigned by Iarnród
Éireann to another passenger.

43.3 Reserved seat tickets are issued subject to the conditions and regulations
applicable to the passenger ticket to which the reserved seat ticket relates
and to the special conditions, that Iarnród Éireann is not deemed to undertake
to provide particular seats in the appropriate class, or any seats, and failure to
do so will impose no liability upon Iarnród Éireann other than to refund the
reservation fee paid.

43.4 Reserved seat tickets are valid only on production of the passenger tickets
covering the journey and must be shown to and given up as required to
Iarnród Éireann’s employees or agents.

43.5 Reserved seats must be claimed prior to the advertised departure time of the
train.

43.6 Passengers at terminal stations who wish to claim their reserved seats must
be available for boarding at least twenty minutes prior to the advertised departure time of the train.


As outlined in the previous reply from ***** there can on occasions be issues regarding the Reservation System not displaying which we are addressing at the moment. The station staff at the gate would be able to inform you which carriages are unreserved before you board the train if you are travelling in the future.

If you are sitting in an unreserved seat there is no reason you would be asked to vacate it.

I hope I have addressed the issues raised by you and thank you for contacting Iarnród Éireann.

Regards,

My email to IE

You state “If you are sitting in an unreserved seat there is no reason you would be asked to vacate it.” in your reply, the issue arises when I sit in a seat which to me is not reserved because there is no way for me to know it is reserved,

When seats are not marked reserved for whatever reason(system malfunction/change of train set etc) and a passenger without reserved ticket sits in a seat which as far as anyone on board can see is not marked as reserved will that passenger be removed from that seat because another passenger produces a ticket with that seat number on it?
Really what I am asking is are seats reserved on board even though they carry no notice or marking and have nothing to show they are reserved?

Kindest Regards

Reply from IE

Apologies if my answer was not clear to you in my reply.



In essence the charter below states "The passenger with the reserved seat is entitled to that seat provided they arrive 20 minutes prior to departure time"

There is a trial at the moment in Cork where passengers with reserved tickets are allowed to board the train first , this might eliminate any issues regarding seating especially when the reservation system on board the service is not activated.



I hope I have answered your questions and thank you for contacting Iarnrod Éireann.

Regards,

So Question has been answered by telling me that if the passenger with the reservation is not at the station 20minutes before departure their reservation is voided? I assume this also applies to passengers who have not taken up their reserved seats at intermediate stations by the time the train has left those stations?

dr.fuzzenstein

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

Exactly. She didn't. Her reservation was for another carriage.

Well, yes, absolutely. In that case it was not her seat.
What i took issue with was:

I have never deliberately sat in a pre booked seat but do keep an eye on the screen. If it came up after I have sat down then I am sorry but I am not moving and it's up to IR to provide enough seats to safely cater for all long suffering high paying commuters. I cant afford to pay another €5 a go per trip to pre book but IR get my annual fee full whack in one go which I think entitles me to equal courtesy as is shown to someone taking a one off day trip to the big smoke.

You stated that if you sat down and the light would go on after you sat down, your reply would be "fuggof, not moving". That is not showing equal courtesy.
If you can't afford to prebook, then you are not entitled over someone who did. You are saying because you travel every day, it entitles you to elevated privileges over people who travel less frequently.
If IR doesn't supply enough seats, that is bad. But it's not an excuse to sit in a seat that someone has reserved and tell them to get lost.
Or buy a car, I have one and it very rarely has happens that someone has taken my seat and isn't moving. Not even Foggy would do that. And if it did, I would certainly call the Gards.

joeguevara

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well, yes, absolutely. In that case it was not her seat.
What i took issue with was:



You stated that if you sat down and the light would go on after you sat down, your reply would be "fuggof, not moving". That is not showing equal courtesy.
If you can't afford to prebook, then you are not entitled over someone who did. You are saying because you travel every day, it entitles you to elevated privileges over people who travel less frequently.
If IR doesn't supply enough seats, that is bad. But it's not an excuse to sit in a seat that someone has reserved and tell them to get lost.
Or buy a car, I have one and it very rarely has happens that someone has taken my seat and isn't moving. Not even Foggy would do that. And if it did, I would certainly call the Gards.

As already stated the above can't happen...ye are arguing over an impossibility