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Woman asked to move from pre-booked seat calls Gardai
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OK, thanks to everyone involved, it has been, erm, interesting, I must leave this magical mystery ride, my people need me. Enjoy, y'all!0
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Hilly Bill wrote: »So you sat in a seat clearly marked as reserved even though you said earlier in the thread that you wouldnt?
So anyone booking a seat must now have proof of name as well as reservation for you Foggy?
I imagine that was a humorous response to Pinch Flat's prior post...0 -
I really have no interest in getting into all this since it's getting way off topic, but you can't really accuse me of ignoring the rules that don't support my position and do exactly the same thing yourself
I'm intentionally splitting hairs to make a point about splitting hairs. It's silly and a waste of everyones times when common sense would answer the question. Irish rails earlier response to foggy lad have backed up what I was saying. Reservation continues to exist even without markings.And your only compensation is the refund of your reservation fee, which is free if you're booking online. Yet contradicts the passenger charter which promises a refund of the single journey.
I assume you have asked them about this?0 -
Grolschevik wrote: »I imagine that was a humorous response to Pinch Flat's prior post...
Just read it again and seen that. Sorry Foggy .0 -
I'm intentionally splitting hairs to make a point about splitting hairs. It's silly and a waste of everyones times when common sense would answer the question. Irish rails earlier response to foggy lad have backed up what I was saying. Reservation continues to exist even without markings.
I've only read the last few pages of this thread so somebody else has probably already made this point. I don't agree with your interpretation of "common sense" at all.
Imagine a scenario of someone deliberately turning up very early to ensure they get a seat on a very busy train. They are one of the first people to board the train and so have their pick of all the seats not marked as being reserved. Just before the train departs and is now standing room only, somebody else comes along with proof that they have reserved that seat. Do you think it is fair that the first person should now have to move and stand for the journey despite having arrived very early in order to avoid that very situation? They could have taken a different seat when they had boarded but they had no way of knowing at that time.
As JayRoc said earlier, if I was the person turning up with a prebooked ticket in the above scenario and the seat had not been marked as booked, it wouldn't even occur to me to ask an innocent person to move & stand for the journey. That to me is common sense and the actions of a reasonable person. I'm surprised that many people think otherwise. My issue would be with Irish Rail for failing to keep my seat. I would not expect a third party to honour a deal they played no part in.0 -
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I've only read the last few pages of this thread so somebody else has probably already made this point. I don't agree with your interpretation of "common sense" at all.
I'm not going over this again. You may not agree but that is the situation.
Irish rail has confirmed this. If you have an issue take it up with Irish rail.0 -
I'm not going over this again. You may not agree but that is the situation.
Irish rail has confirmed this. If you have an issue take it up with Irish rail.
That's fine, I'm not expecting you to go over anything again. I'm simply saying that while your interpretation may be correct, it doesn't in any way represent common sense. I doubt if there is anyone who wouldn't have an issue with Irish Rail in this scenario.0 -
That's fine, I'm not expecting you to go over anything again. I'm simply saying that while your interpretation may be correct, it doesn't in any way represent common sense. I doubt if there is anyone who wouldn't have an issue with Irish Rail in this scenario.
In the specific situation you outline yes it sucks but if you are the person with the ticket you have no knowledge about if the person sitting in your seat got on early, if the booking wasn't showing at the time or whatever else may or may not have happened. You don't know any of that. All you see is a person sitting in your reserved seat.
If your traveling on a busy train and don't book a seat that is a risk you take even if you arrive early.
It would seem to me that if I am the person who has mistakenly sat in a reserved seat and someone shows me a valid reservation it would only be common courtesy to move and let the person have their seat. No sense in getting mad at them for Irish rails mistake.0 -
Why should I? I'm not getting paid to correct their T+Cs.I'm intentionally splitting hairs to make a point about splitting hairs. It's silly and a waste of everyones times when common sense would answer the question. Irish rails earlier response to foggy lad have backed up what I was saying. Reservation continues to exist even without markings.
I assume you have asked them about this?
And yes, the reservation clearly exists. The ticket holder has a reservation. It just hasn't been honoured by IE.
In a single email to a random individual?I'm not going over this again. You may not agree but that is the situation.
Irish rail has confirmed this. If you have an issue take it up with Irish rail.
I remember my grandmother used to regularly travel on weekends away with her friends. There's no way they'd be able to deal with online booking. They'd all just turn up at the station at least an hour before the train was due and always got seats, no problem.If your traveling on a busy train and don't book a seat that is a risk you take even if you arrive early.
It would seem to me that if I am the person who has mistakenly sat in a reserved seat and someone shows me a valid reservation it would only be common courtesy to move and let the person have their seat. No sense in getting mad at them for Irish rails mistake.
Lovely to think some people would consider it common courtesy to to turf a bunch of pensioners out of their seats because IE can't operate their own booking system.
But I guess that's the "me first" attitude prevalent these days.0 -
I remember my grandmother used to regularly travel on weekends away with her friends. There's no way they'd be able to deal with online booking. They'd all just turn up at the station at least an hour before the train was due and always got seats, no problem.
Lovely to think some people would consider it common courtesy to to turf a bunch of pensioners out of their seats because IE can't operate their own booking system.
But I guess that's the "me first" attitude prevalent these days.
I think it's extremely condescending and patronising of you to assume that in this day and age your grandmother couldn't manage online booking. My mother who is nearly 80 years old manages it fine. And when she has a problem, she calls me and I sort it out. Are you telling me you'd be too selfish or tight to take 2 minutes and five euro to reserve a seat for your gran?
Also, you might want to bear in mind that a lot of people have no option to do the turn up an hour beforehand to get a seat because they are not getting on at the terminus.
And finally, you're appealing to emotion. I have no idea what trains you travel on but strangely enough, in my experience, the vast majority of people who sit in reserved seats that they don't hold a reservation for are young people who are well able to stand on their own two feet if needs be. I have never had to even consider asking a retired person to move from a seat I reserved because older people are generally better mannered than the me fein "I got here first" younger generation.
We aren't talking about throwing pensioners out of their seats because mostly people who show the attitude prevalent of "I got here first, bog off and take it up with Irish Rail" are able to manage boards so should be able to manage an online reservation system.0 -
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Be a bit difficult to manage online booking with no internet access. I don't think she ever had a credit card either. And there's plenty of elderly or otherwise vulnerable people without family support, and even then they might not always be availableI think it's extremely condescending and patronising of you to assume that in this day and age your grandmother couldn't manage online booking. My mother who is nearly 80 years old manages it fine. And when she has a problem, she calls me and I sort it out. Are you telling me you'd be too selfish or tight to take 2 minutes and five euro to reserve a seat for your gran?
This whole notion that unless you've reserved a seat you have no entitlement to one is ridiculous. There are plenty of people who are unable to reserve seats. Turning up early to sit in an unreserved seat (and I'm leaving out intermediate stations here) is a perfectly reasonable option.
I'm not appealing to emotion, I'm picking a specific example of a case where it would be completely unreasonable and defy common sense to demand somebody move from a seat.And finally, you're appealing to emotion. I have no idea what trains you travel on but strangely enough, in my experience, the vast majority of people who sit in reserved seats that they don't hold a reservation for are young people who are well able to stand on their own two feet if needs be. I have never had to even consider asking a retired person to move from a seat I reserved because older people are generally better mannered than the me fein "I got here first" younger generation.
How exactly do you know if someone's "well able to stand on their own two feet"? Right now I'd probably look perfectly capable of doing so, but I've a broken toe which is causing me a bit of discomfort and I'd rather sit for a long journey. Although I'd still be perfectly capable of standing, I could have a sprained ankle. Or a more serious illness. Unless you've some magic instant visual diagnostic too, you're completely unable to make that assessment.
Mostly people who show the attitude of "I'm going to kick a pensioner out of their seat" are able to manage boards too. That's not really relevant.We aren't talking about throwing pensioners out of their seats because mostly people who show the attitude prevalent of "I got here first, bog off and take it up with Irish Rail" are able to manage boards so should be able to manage an online reservation system.
You sit in an unreserved seat, you're entitled to it. You're also entitled to give it up if somebody comes along to claim it, but you're not obligated to.
You have a ticket, you're entitled to ask someone to get out of the seat Irish Rail promised to reserve for you but didn't. But if they're unwilling or unable to stand for the journey, it's tough luck.0 -
Be a bit difficult to manage online booking with no internet access. I don't think she ever had a credit card either. And there's plenty of elderly or otherwise vulnerable people without family support, and even then they might not always be available
This whole notion that unless you've reserved a seat you have no entitlement to one is ridiculous. There are plenty of people who are unable to reserve seats. Turning up early to sit in an unreserved seat (and I'm leaving out intermediate stations here) is a perfectly reasonable option.
This is not what people are saying. The basic comment is that if you have not reserved a seat and you are sitting in a seat which someone has reserved, you should vacate it.
I also suggested you sort out the booking for your grandmother. I know if my gran phoned me up and said she wanted to go somewhere on the train, I would a) make the reservation b) print it and c) take it to her or send it to a trusted person near her to deliver it.I'm not appealing to emotion, I'm picking a specific example of a case where it would be completely unreasonable and defy common sense to demand somebody move from a seat.
You are appealing to emotion.How exactly do you know if someone's "well able to stand on their own two feet"? Right now I'd probably look perfectly capable of doing so, but I've a broken toe which is causing me a bit of discomfort and I'd rather sit for a long journey. Although I'd still be perfectly capable of standing, I could have a sprained ankle. Or a more serious illness. Unless you've some magic instant visual diagnostic too, you're completely unable to make that assessment.
Tell me, do all 700 people on an Irish Rail train have broken toes?Mostly people who show the attitude of "I'm going to kick a pensioner out of their seat" are able to manage boards too. That's not really relevant.
No one has said they want to kick a pensioner out of their seats. The only people who even mention pensioners are people who do not want to vacate their seats.
Maybe foggy is a pensioner. Maybe you are. But in the general discussion, as I have made absolutely clear to you, the vast majority of people not concerned are not pensioners and the me feiners in this threads are not people with reservations, they are people whinging that they might have to give up a seat they didn't reserve just because " we were there first, nyah". And when someone points out how selfish that is, you pull the "what if I were injured, hah, what if I was old, hah"
This is basically trying to twist things to justify your behaviour which is refusing to vacate a seat which someone else reserved.You sit in an unreserved seat, you're entitled to it. You're also entitled to give it up if somebody comes along to claim it, but you're not obligated to.
You have a ticket, you're entitled to ask someone to get out of the seat Irish Rail promised to reserve for you but didn't. But if they're unwilling or unable to stand for the journey, it's tough luck.
Again, if a person has a reservation, that seat is reserved. It is only twisting things to say "well Irish Rail reserved it but didn't reserve it" to justify taking the reserved seat.
Seriously, this is selfish, not common sense.0 -
I'm not going to address the rest of this because I'm giving valid cases where a blanket "kick the person out of the seat" attitude is clearly untenable, and your response is "they're just a minority of exceptional cases" - that's exactly my point, every case is different.
Again, if a person has a reservation, that seat is reserved. It is only twisting things to say "well Irish Rail reserved it but didn't reserve it" to justify taking the reserved seat.
Seriously, this is selfish, not common sense.
So I get on a train. I can sit in any unreserved seat. I do so.
Train fills up, all seats are filled, you come along and say you reserved this seat, demand I now stand.
Despite the fact that I followed the rules and didn't sit in a reserved seat.
And that you can get a refund for your trip, whereas I can get nothing.
Assuming we're both young, able bodied individuals, both equally capable of standing and suffering only a lesser level of comfort for the journey, to me it seems ridiculously selfish of you to demand that I stand.
In the reverse situation I wouldn't do it, common sense to me would dictate that since:
- both parties have followed the rules
- one party is going have to stand
- IE have broken the rules
The common sense course of action is the one in which at least one of the parties gets some compensation, and IE lose something for failing to follow their own rules.
I don't see how anything else is logical or common sense.
But I'm sick of going round the houses on this, both sides are never going to agree, and I'm a bit fed up being told how to interact with my family members, so I'm out.0 -
How am I to know that some random stranger has reserved a seat unless I am told about it when I take "My" seat?This is not what people are saying. The basic comment is that if you have not reserved a seat and you are sitting in a seat which someone has reserved, you should vacate it.
Many people appear to be perfectly healthy but are suffering from chronic pain and several other illnesses and disabilities which are not at all obvious to the majority.Tell me, do all 700 people on an Irish Rail train have broken toes?
It has been said many times on this thread that those who would not move for someone with a "reserved" ticket is ignorant and whatever other name you wish to throw at it, very little has been said about the people who clearly see that Irish Rail have failed in their obligation to them But instead of giving Irish Rail hell they take it out on some stranger on a train who is 100% blameless.
No one has said they want to kick a pensioner out of their seats. The only people who even mention pensioners are people who do not want to vacate their seats.
It honestly is not about me saying I was there first or anything as ignorant, I would always give up my seat for someone who was more in need even though my own need to avoid standing would be important to me.Maybe foggy is a pensioner. Maybe you are. But in the general discussion, as I have made absolutely clear to you, the vast majority of people not concerned are not pensioners and the me feiners in this threads are not people with reservations, they are people whinging that they might have to give up a seat they didn't reserve just because " we were there first, nyah". And when someone points out how selfish that is, you pull the "what if I were injured, hah, what if I was old, hah"
This is basically trying to twist things to justify your behaviour which is refusing to vacate a seat which someone else reserved.
and forcing a blameless stranger to give up a seat they have legitimately obtained because your issue is with Irish Fail is not selfish? It is not only easier to take another seat if one is available but also means that nobody is seriously inconvenienced by Irish Rail's incompetent reservations system.Again, if a person has a reservation, that seat is reserved. It is only twisting things to say "well Irish Rail reserved it but didn't reserve it" to justify taking the reserved seat.
Seriously, this is selfish, not common sense.0 -
How am I to know that some random stranger has reserved a seat unless I am told about it when I take "My" seat?
Many people appear to be perfectly healthy but are suffering from chronic pain and several other illnesses and disabilities which are not at all obvious to the majority.
It has been said many times on this thread that those who would not move for someone with a "reserved" ticket is ignorant and whatever other name you wish to throw at it, very little has been said about the people who clearly see that Irish Rail have failed in their obligation to them But instead of giving Irish Rail hell they take it out on some stranger on a train who is 100% blameless.
It honestly is not about me saying I was there first or anything as ignorant, I would always give up my seat for someone who was more in need even though my own need to avoid standing would be important to me.
and forcing a blameless stranger to give up a seat they have legitimately obtained because your issue is with Irish Fail is not selfish? It is not only easier to take another seat if one is available but also means that nobody is seriously inconvenienced by Irish Rail's incompetent reservations system.
I dont think anyone is appointing blame at anyone that sat in a seat which they didnt know was reserved even if it was clearly marked or not.
If its easier to take up another seat then you wouldnt mine moving would you.
I understand what you are trying to say but you are trying to make it sound worse than it is in a mountain molehill type of way.0 -
But what is the point in forcing a person out of their seat when you can take another free seat with less hassle? that seems like a bit of "look at me! I'm better than you because I have a reservation!". It really is quite selfish to inconvenience some stranger who is blameless just because some retailer failed to provide the promised service to you!Hilly Bill wrote: »I dont think anyone is appointing blame at anyone that sat in a seat which they didnt know was reserved even if it was clearly marked or not.
If its easier to take up another seat then you wouldnt mine moving would you.
I understand what you are trying to say but you are trying to make it sound worse than it is in a mountain molehill type of way.0 -
But what is the point in forcing a person out of their seat when you can take another free seat with less hassle? that seems like a bit of "look at me! I'm better than you because I have a reservation!". It really is quite selfish to inconvenience some stranger who is blameless just because some retailer failed to provide the promised service to you!
Thats what a lot do . Now you are getting silly with that "i'm better than you comment"
So its selfish for them to ask you to move but its not selfish on your part????0 -
What if another passenger gets on boards and tells you that you are in his/her seat... you are forced to move.
Has happened to me in the past on the Northern line. It's a pain in the arse, as I had 'unpacked' and was comfortable.
Alternatively, the biddy hogging your seat should just move. The girl has other 'issues' if she resorted to calling the gardai - good luck to her.But what is the point in forcing a person out of their seat when you can take another free seat with less hassle? that seems like a bit of "look at me! I'm better than you because I have a reservation!". It really is quite selfish to inconvenience some stranger who is blameless just because some retailer failed to provide the promised service to you!0 -
Why should I? I'm not getting paid to correct their T+Cs.
So you'll just complain about it on a public forum rather than tell the company itself? Not very productive.In a single email to a random individual?
Well see the thing it is what the majority of posters on here were saying based of a valid reading of the T&CS. It seemed like a clear case of common sense applying but some people need it spelt out to them and wouldn't accept the T&C's and it was being explained to them.
Leave your grandmother out of it. That's just a poor argument tactic.But I guess that's the "me first" attitude prevalent these days.
Now here is the thing. If I am understanding it correctly if you boarded and someone was in your seat you would not say anything to this person?
Assuming full train you'd just stand there passive aggressively for the whole trip?
In every single situation you outline the person who has the reservation cannot know anything beyond there is a person in their seat. All the guff about them getting to the station early or having a sore foot... It's entirely irrelevant to the situation.
Now there is no implication that the person who mistakenly sat in a reserved seat has intentionally done anything wrong. Irish rail screwed up.
So are you annoyed at the person for trying to claim their reserved seat or are you annoyed at Irish rail for the mess up?
If it's the former then it's irrational as they are only trying to claim their seat. As many have pointed out it's Irish rails fault not this person. Remember they know nothing about how you came to sit there and it isn't their business.
If it's the later then you should move and then complain to Irish rail later.
If it's both then you are unreasonably annoyed at the person with the reservation because this situation isn't their fault.
This is where common sense *should* kick in. You have a situation where 2 people who are both blameless of Irish rails mistake have a dispute over the seat. One has a valid reservation and the other does not.
If you accept it isn't the fault of the person with the reservation then you *should* move and raise and issue with Irish rail.
Otherwise the only other arguement effectively boils down to "Finders Keepers"0 -
Well see the thing it is what the majority of posters on here were saying based of a valid reading of the T&CS. It seemed like a clear case of common sense applying but some people need it spelt out to them and wouldn't accept the T&C's and it was being explained to them.
Now here is the thing. If I am understanding it correctly if you boarded and someone was in your seat you would not say anything to this person?
Assuming full train you'd just stand there passive aggressively for the whole trip?
In every single situation you outline the person who has the reservation cannot know anything beyond there is a person in their seat. All the guff about them getting to the station early or having a sore foot... It's entirely irrelevant to the situation.
Now there is no implication that the person who mistakenly sat in a reserved seat has intentionally done anything wrong. Irish rail screwed up.
So are you annoyed at the person for trying to claim their reserved seat or are you annoyed at Irish rail for the mess up?
If it's the former then it's irrational as they are only trying to claim their seat. As many have pointed out it's Irish rails fault not this person. Remember they know nothing about how you came to sit there and it isn't their business.
If it's the later then you should move and then complain to Irish rail later.
If it's both then you are unreasonably annoyed at the person with the reservation because this situation isn't their fault.
This is where common sense *should* kick in. You have a situation where 2 people who are both blameless of Irish rails mistake have a dispute over the seat. One has a valid reservation and the other does not.
If you accept it isn't the fault of the person with the reservation then you *should* move and raise and issue with Irish rail.
Otherwise the only other arguement effectively boils down to "Finders Keepers"
Please stop going on about common sense. There is no common sense about your argument. If a seat is not marked as reserved, there is no "mistake" involved in taking it. It is there to be taken. If I turn up to find that my seat has not been marked as reserved, I don't have to wonder at all how someone came to be sitting in it. Why wouldn't they sit in it?
I know if I turned up to a full train to discover that my seat had not been marked as reserved, I wouldn't dream of asking someone to move. I would complain to IE about their failure to honour their part of the deal but I certainly wouldn't harbour any resentment towards the innocent person in the seat. That to me would represent courtesy and common sense.0 -
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Please stop going on about common sense. There is no common sense about your argument.
Plenty of common sense in it. At the risk of repeating myself 2 people in a dispute over an unmarked seat. One person has a reservation & the other person got there first. What should happen next?If a seat is not marked as reserved, there is no "mistake" involved in taking it. It is there to be taken. If I turn up to find that my seat has not been marked as reserved, I don't have to wonder at all how someone came to be sitting in it. Why wouldn't they sit in it?
Exactly so why do you keep putting in backstory when you try an example?
How do you know there wasn't a reservation ticket on it and they've removed it? How do you know the display has only just gone on the fritz?
There is such a thing as honest mistake.I know if I turned up to a full train to discover that my seat had not been marked as reserved, I wouldn't dream of asking someone to move.
I really don't understand this but it's your choice. I'd be horrified if I found out I had been sitting in someones reserved seat and they hadn't told me.I would complain to IE about their failure to honour their part of the deal but I certainly wouldn't harbour any resentment towards the innocent person in the seat. That to me would represent courtesy and common sense.
I'm going to swing back to my question though.
You are the person sitting down and someone shows you a valid reservation.
Are you annoyed with them and do you move?0 -
The only way you can be certain that it's ok to sit somewhere is if your name is either over the seat or on the ticket.0
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I know if I turned up to a full train to discover that my seat had not been marked as reserved, I wouldn't dream of asking someone to move. I would complain to IE about their failure to honour their part of the deal but I certainly wouldn't harbour any resentment towards the innocent person in the seat. That to me would represent courtesy and common sense.
I know I keep saying it, but I still find it hard to believe anyone could argue with this.0 -
Plenty of common sense in it. At the risk of repeating myself 2 people in a dispute over an unmarked seat. One person has a reservation & the other person got there first. What should happen next?
There's no easy answer to this. Neither party has done anything wrong so it's a real problem if there are no other available seats. A problem caused by IE and for which common sense doesn't provide any easy solution.Exactly so why do you keep putting in backstory when you try an example?
How do you know there wasn't a reservation ticket on it and they've removed it? How do you know the display has only just gone on the fritz?
There is such a thing as honest mistake.
As opposed to you imagining a backstory about someone deliberately stealing your seat in order to justify feeling anger at them? An honest mistake would be to take a seat and forget to check the overhead display. In those circumstances I would immediately apologise and move. A mistake is something that could be avoided by better observation or taking more care. Sitting in an unmarked seat is not a mistake since there is no reason not to sit in it.I really don't understand this but it's your choice. I'd be horrified if I found out I had been sitting in someones reserved seat and they hadn't told me.
I wouldn't be remotely horrified about this as I wouldn't have done anything wrong. On the contrary, I would be horrified at the prospect of asking another person to stand due to an error made by IE.I'm going to swing back to my question though.
You are the person sitting down and someone shows you a valid reservation.
Are you annoyed with them and do you move?
There's no reason whatever for either party to be annoyed with the other as neither have done anything wrong. I'd probably be a bit disappointed with the other person as I'd know that I wouldn't do the same thing in their position. However, I wouldn't express this in any way.
Do I move? Probably but I think it would depend on the attitude of the other person. If they were polite and understood that it was IE's fault, then I'd probably move. If they had a bad attitude and started complaining about me taking their seat, then I would be more reluctant to move.0 -
There's no easy answer to this. Neither party has done anything wrong so it's a real problem if there are no other available seats. A problem caused by IE and for which common sense doesn't provide any easy solution.
Has to be one or the other.Logically it's either the first person there or the person with the reservation.IE aren't around to get involved in it however much it may be their fault.As opposed to you imagining a backstory about someone deliberately stealing your seat in order to justify feeling anger at them?
There is no anger anywhere here. I'm showing that there can be needless backstory on both sides which is both irrelevant.There's no reason whatever for either party to be annoyed with the other as neither have done anything wrong. I'd probably be a bit disappointed with the other person as I'd know that I wouldn't do the same thing in their position. However, I wouldn't express this in any way.
Fair enough. I'm not going to quibble over definition of honest mistake.Do I move? Probably but I think it would depend on the attitude of the other person. If they were polite and understood that it was IE's fault, then I'd probably move. If they had a bad attitude and started complaining about me taking their seat, then I would be more reluctant to move.
Which is fair enough actually. I've been on a fair number of train journeys and I have never seen any issue with anyone moving .It never gets any further than the "I'm sorry, I believe you might be in my seat..." and then maybe showing a reservation ticket if needed. There's never any implication of wrong doing by either party.0 -
But what is the point in forcing a person out of their seat when you can take another free seat with less hassle? that seems like a bit of "look at me! I'm better than you because I have a reservation!". It really is quite selfish to inconvenience some stranger who is blameless just because some retailer failed to provide the promised service to you!
This is not the issue, this is an issue with your view of elitism. If I pay for a service I have a right to expect that service, if that service is superior to the one you payed for , that just the way the cookie crumbles.
The seat reservation debate, is a metaphor for the attitude to rules in Ireland, its got nothing to do with IR and its systems. You'll see the same disregard for rules, everyday in our towns, countryside, roads, etc.0 -
This is not the issue, this is an issue with your view of elitism. If I pay for a service I have a right to expect that service, if that service is superior to the one you payed for , that just the way the cookie crumbles.
The seat reservation debate, is a metaphor for the attitude to rules in Ireland, its got nothing to do with IR and its systems. You'll see the same disregard for rules, everyday in our towns, countryside, roads, etc.
It's the disregard for rules, usually followed by "I'm entitled to....because...." as an opener.0 -
There's a lot of talk about grandmothers and so forth here - some of it could be seen as a bit patronising mind you - but there are ways to deal with things like seat reservations such as by phone if there is a will to do it (or government via NTA/Equality Authority make them).
In this day and age there should be no more reason to buy a ticket at a railway station than there is to buy an airline ticket at the airport - these things should brought nearer the passenger using either LEAP or smart tickets (loaded with an itinerary including seat reservation checkable electronically, detailed with an accompanying receipt on standard roll paper) which can be sold in shops - the sort that those who have difficulty with the internet might shop in.0 -
For perspective, a discussion on this topic from the UK : http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=112623
It's also funny to see the huge arguments that forum gets into about DOO and how it is such a disaster to run a train without a guard- while here in Ireland almost every train we have runs DOO every day with almost no issue.0 -
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i'd hardly say it runs without issue. it should have been kept to dart and suburban where distances between stops are short, not long distance services. there needs to be someone aboard those trains apart from the driver. they can collect revenue and ensure everything runs smoothly. the driver has enough to do without having to deal with passenger problems. the UK are right to fight against DO on all services bar those that have short distances between stops, the gard can relinquish having to release the doors though. that could be left to the drivers, with the gards having a customer service roll instead.For perspective, a discussion on this topic from the UK : http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=112623
It's also funny to see the huge arguments that forum gets into about DOO and how it is such a disaster to run a train without a guard- while here in Ireland almost every train we have runs DOO every day with almost no issue.ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.
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